Northwestern’s motion to dismiss the wrongful termination lawsuit brought by former coach Pat Fitzgerald was denied today, Fitz seeking $130MM.

[Some guy]

Has anyone seen the actual contract? A lazy Google search turned up nothing for me. The devil in all of this would be in those details. Did the contract authorize NW to fire Fitz for any reason or no reason at all provided he was paid the specified buyout? But didn't NW fire him for cause? Can NW absolve itself from liability for breach of contract and wrongful termination by later availing itself of the buyout provisions?

Since it’s a private university we will likely never see the real contract. But if northwestern drew up a contract that created a situation where any firing had to either be 0 dollars or a breach of contract settlement….then I would agree with everyone northwestern is really dumb


You’d be hard to find a multi year contract in all of FBS football that doesn’t have a buyout number. I would bet it doesn’t exist

 

[swede2]

Since it’s a private university we will likely never see the real contract. But if northwestern drew up a contract that created a situation where any firing had to either be 0 dollars or a breach of contract settlement….then I would agree with everyone northwestern is really dumb


You’d be hard to find a multi year contract in all of FBS football that doesn’t have a buyout number. I would bet it doesn’t exist

It won't behind public now but depending on the status of litigation and discovery, it could have appeared in a court file.

My point was this: If NW fired him for cause (no buyout), it's not a simple as NW later deciding it made a bad decision and deciding it was firing him without cause in attempt to avoid breach of contract and wrongful termination, among other, claims.

If Fitz's contract is similar to PJ'S contract, then NW would have had a very good defense to Fitz's litigation simply by paying him his buyout in the first place (PJ's contract recites that in the event if termination without cause and payment of the buyout, PJ releases all claims he might otherwise have against the U). I'm not sure who thought it was a good idea to do anything but give him his buyout, even if NW's comments were guarded as to the reason for firing for cause.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Settling so early and before the school year/season kicks off, the carefully worded public statements supporting Fotzgerald’s defense suggests to me that NU threw in the towel. They were in a very bad position.

 

[Some guy]

Settling so early and before the school year/season kicks off, the carefully worded public statements supporting Fotzgerald’s defense suggests to me that NU threw in the towel. They were in a very bad position.

Fitzgerald admitted there was hazing in the program which is exactly what northwestern said

So I guess I just disagree with your interpretation of statements

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Fitzgerald admitted there was hazing in the program which is exactly what northwestern said

So I guess I just disagree with your interpretation of statements

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody witnessed it…

I disagree with your interpretation of events, even if Fitzgerald knew (of what we don’t know - the “leering grin” while he selected players for sexual assault, or idiots ass-slapping in the showers, or anything in between?). That’s a pretty wide range. Evidence?

There was an agreement in place, which was reneged on. There was no evidence whatsoever he was made aware of hypothetical abuse. Emails? Phone calls, texts? Film? We’ve had iPhones since 2007 and phone cameras for a decade before that. Let’s see it.

 

[Some guy]

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody witnessed it…

I disagree with your interpretation of events, even if Fitzgerald knew (of what we don’t know - the “leering grin” while he selected players for sexual assault, or idiots ass-slapping in the showers, or anything in between?). That’s a pretty wide range. Evidence?

There was an agreement in place, which was reneged on. There was no evidence whatsoever he was made aware of hypothetical abuse. Emails? Phone calls, texts? Film? We’ve had iPhones since 2007 and phone cameras for a decade before that. Let’s see it.

Northwestern never claimed he knew there was hazing? They just claimed there was hazing. And in the settlement Pat F admits there was hazing but that he didn’t know about it.

So we will never know the settlement, but in the settlement Fitzgerald admits to what northwestern claimed against him.

N'western, ex-football coach Fitzgerald settle suit

Northwestern and former football coach Pat Fitzgerald have settled a $130 million lawsuit, which was filed by Fitzgerald after his dismissal two years ago amid allegations of hazing in the program.

www.espn.com

You are correct that there is no evidence Fitzgerald knew about hazing. This is likely why northwestern never claimed he did.





I think the main reason why people think northwestern messed up is because they think northwestern made allegations that northwestern never actually made.
A former player made the allegation he knew, not northwestern

Northwestern fires Fitzgerald amid hazing claims

Northwestern fired longtime coach Pat Fitzgerald amid allegations of widespread hazing within the football program. Defensive coordinator David Braun is expected to be named the Wildcats' acting coach, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

The university’s statement at the time of firing is that there was not sufficient evidence to say he knew about it.
So from the drop northwestern said Fitzgerald didn’t know about it





If you were the lawyer in the wrongful termination case you’d have spent all your time arguing he didn’t know about hazing and the university would’ve simply said…we never said he knew. The wrongful termination case isn’t about whether or not he knew about it. Both parties claim he didn’t know.


What the wrongful termination case was actually about is whether or not him not knowing about hazing within his football program is grounds for termination for cause and zero compensation. We will never know what they settled for. I don’t think this is grounds for zero compensation. But given the fact they settled I also think he probably got less than his buyout.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

It won't behind public now but depending on the status of litigation and discovery, it could have appeared in a court file.

My point was this: If NW fired him for cause (no buyout), it's not a simple as NW later deciding it made a bad decision and deciding it was firing him without cause in attempt to avoid breach of contract and wrongful termination, among other, claims.

If Fitz's contract is similar to PJ'S contract, then NW would have had a very good defense to Fitz's litigation simply by paying him his buyout in the first place (PJ's contract recites that in the event if termination without cause and payment of the buyout, PJ releases all claims he might otherwise have against the U). I'm not sure who thought it was a good idea to do anything but give him his buyout, even if NW's comments were guarded as to the reason for firing for cause.

NW's leadership seems to be pretty spineless, but for spineless folks it was weird that they chose to not pay the buyout / fight it. Their attorneys gotta know not paying plus the way it all went down it was going to be an uphill climb at best ... unless NW's leadership simply chose to make that call without talking to their attorneys in the first place....

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Northwestern never claimed he knew there was hazing? They just claimed there was hazing. And in the settlement Pat F admits there was hazing but that he didn’t know about it.

So we will never know the settlement, but in the settlement Fitzgerald admits to what northwestern claimed against him.

N'western, ex-football coach Fitzgerald settle suit

Northwestern and former football coach Pat Fitzgerald have settled a $130 million lawsuit, which was filed by Fitzgerald after his dismissal two years ago amid allegations of hazing in the program.

www.espn.com

You are correct that there is no evidence Fitzgerald knew about hazing. This is likely why northwestern never claimed he did.





I think the main reason why people think northwestern messed up is because they think northwestern made allegations that northwestern never actually made.
A former player made the allegation he knew, not northwestern

Northwestern fires Fitzgerald amid hazing claims

Northwestern fired longtime coach Pat Fitzgerald amid allegations of widespread hazing within the football program. Defensive coordinator David Braun is expected to be named the Wildcats' acting coach, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

The university’s statement at the time of firing is that there was not sufficient evidence to say he knew about it.
So from the drop northwestern said Fitzgerald didn’t know about it





If you were the lawyer in the wrongful termination case you’d have spent all your time arguing he didn’t know about hazing and the university would’ve simply said…we never said he knew. The wrongful termination case isn’t about whether or not he knew about it. Both parties claim he didn’t know.


What the wrongful termination case was actually about is whether or not him not knowing about hazing within his football program is grounds for termination for cause and zero compensation. We will never know what they settled for. I don’t think this is grounds for zero compensation. But given the fact they settled I also think he probably got less than his buyout.

The had an agreement, reneged on. Without any new evidence other than a ludicrous student newspaper story. You can see why this would be a bad precedent for coaches, or really anyone.

 

[Some guy]

The had an agreement, reneged on. Without any new evidence other than a ludicrous student newspaper story. You can see why this would be a bad precedent for coaches, or really anyone.

Yup
Which is why I don’t think he got zero.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Yup
Which is why I don’t think he got zero.

They broke a contract, drug him through the mud based on incredibly suspect anonymous allegations, severely impacted his coaching opportunities and he’s just going to get his normal buyout?

Is this normal in your workplace?

 

[Some guy]

They broke a contract, drug him through the mud based on incredibly suspect anonymous allegations, severely impacted his coaching opportunities and he’s just going to get his normal buyout?

Is this normal in your workplace?

It is normal for people to get fired for hazing occurring in environments that they are supervising, yes

 

[disco]

It is normal for people to get fired for hazing occurring in environments that they are supervising, yes

It would be yes. Except most of us are employed at-will, so we can be fired without cause.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

It is normal for people to get fired for hazing occurring in environments that they are supervising, yes

What happened between the mutually agreed on suspension and losing tens of millions of dollars/fired for cause.

Some crazy story about Pat selecting players for abuse during practice.

Did you believe the stories from Jason Stahl and players about PJs abuse?

No? Ok then.

 

[Some guy]

What happened between the mutually agreed on suspension and losing tens of millions of dollars/fired for cause.

Some crazy story about Pat selecting players for abuse during practice.

Did you believe the stories from Jason Stahl and players about PJs abuse?

No? Ok then.

Who agree to the mutually agreed suspension?
Fitzgerald and who?

 

[Some guy]

It would be yes. Except most of us are employed at-will, so we can be fired without cause.

I just don’t understand the argument the other way.

Northwestern says:
Fitzgerald did X

Post settlement, Fitzgerald says:
Fitzgerald did X

So clearly Fitzgerald won the settlement?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

It would be yes. Except most of us are employed at-will, so we can be fired without cause.

I don’t think Northwestern can apply unproven allegations. Or at least I’d like to think so.

Caution, internet rant ahead.
Even CEOs that enact policies that result in hundreds killed and massive loss of shareholder value, brand value (think Boeing) generally get to keep their golden parachutes. That’s when they are actively involved in the crime but insulated by layers of managers. I’d guess the same applies to eg United Health and their decisions and actions.

In this case the NU brain trust reacted violently to a clearly questionable internet uproar, almost certainly originating from disgruntled former players with an axe to grind, dollar signs and/or retribution in mind.

Maybe he’s guilty as sin, but there should be some proof after so many years. I’d think?

Has ANYONE been questioned, deposed, arrested or charged in this episode. That would be news to me.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Who agree to the mutually agreed suspension?
Fitzgerald and who?

Michael Schill

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I just don’t understand the argument the other way.

Northwestern says:
Fitzgerald did X

Post settlement, Fitzgerald says:
Fitzgerald did X

So clearly Fitzgerald won the settlement?

No, he was fired after the Fitzgerald-directed sexual abuse story came out set the internet ablaze.

Define hazing. Then tell me exactly what happened at NU, that you can prove or NU can prove.

There are still people over on Reddit talking about “lives ruined” because of the sexual abuse that occurred.

You know, same as PJ ruining those player’s lives and getting Stahl run out of town.

We should all be a little more skeptical.

 

[Some guy]

No, he was fired after the Fitzgerald-directed sexual abuse story came out set the internet ablaze.

Define hazing. Then tell me exactly what happened at NU, that you can prove or NU can prove.

Pat Fitzgerald said there is hazing. I’m going to take his word for it

There are still people over on Reddit talking about “lives ruined” because of the sexual abuse that occurred.

You know, same as PJ ruining those player’s lives and getting Stahl run out of town.

We should all be a little more skeptical.

Again. Pat Fitzgerald said there was hazing.


You know, the coach, Pat Fitzgerald

 

[Some guy]

Michael Schill

Who doesn’t have ultimate authority on contracts at the school. The board does

And it wasn’t a contract. It was an understanding



None of this really matters though.
I just think it’s funny how adamant you are that northwestern is stupid when at the same time Fitzgerald is adamant hazing happened when he was the head coach.

 

[GopherGrit]

NW did not fire him just because hazing happened. There had to be more to it. That he looked the other way or that he tried to cover it up.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Pat Fitzgerald said there is hazing. I’m going to take his word for it

Ok, but what does that mean? What happened? Seems relevant.

Again. Pat Fitzgerald said there was hazing.


You know, the coach, Pat Fitzgerald

Yeah….?

When, what, where, how, frequency, severity.

Go.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Who doesn’t have ultimate authority on contracts at the school. The board does

And it wasn’t a contract. It was an understanding



None of this really matters though.
I just think it’s funny how adamant you are that northwestern is stupid when at the same time Fitzgerald is adamant hazing happened when he was the head coach.

For cause has to have meaning. NU said Fitzgerald was never made aware of the alleged hazing. Fitzgerald says yeah, they said there was hazing, I’ll take their word for it. Ok.

The outside investigation resulted in a 2 week suspension. Then the “leering toothy grin” story came out. Schill went into CYA mode. It happens all the time.

They could have just fired him.

 

[Word]

NW did not fire him just because hazing happened. There had to be more to it. That he looked the other way or that he tried to cover it up.

They may have looked at his team's record his last couple of years. Not counting the COVID year he was 3-9 twice and 1-11 his last 3 full years.

 

[Some guy]

Ok, but what does that mean? What happened? Seems relevant.




Yeah….?

When, what, where, how, frequency, severity.

Go.

Lol

 

[Some guy]

They may have looked at his team's record his last couple of years. Not counting the COVID year he was 3-9 twice and 1-11 his last 3 full years.

He was 3-24 his last 27 non covid year conference games

Really bad.
I’ll be shocked if hazing guy gets a head job again.

You have no control over what happens behind closed doors AND you lose a lot? Seems like a bad hire

 

[Some guy]

For cause has to have meaning. NU said Fitzgerald was never made aware of the alleged hazing. Fitzgerald says yeah, they said there was hazing, I’ll take their word for it. Ok.

The outside investigation resulted in a 2 week suspension. Then the “leering toothy grin” story came out. Schill went into CYA mode. It happens all the time.

They could have just fired him.

Thanks for agreeing with me



This literally happens all the time.

For instance, a teacher posts something stupid on social media at a public school they shouldn’t have. They don’t fire the teacher.
3 weeks later it goes viral, they can fire the teacher for cause the way state statute works.
This isn’t governed by state statute but you’re acting like this is the first time someone ever not been fired then fired later. This happens all the time in all kinds of fields.
I used a teacher because that’s the field I’ve fired people

All that being said, you’re right, they probably paid Fitzgerald 7 billion dollars because the hazing that happened wasn’t that bad. Fitzgerald just admitted to it in the settlement because he won the settlement, certainly.

You’ve one the argument PE. I’m done.
Pat Fitzgerald the hazing guy got paid out the nose by northwestern because even though there was hazing in his program a guy said he could keep his job 2 weeks before the board said he couldn’t. And even though he admits hazing the hazing wasn’t that bad

 

[GopherGrit]

They may have looked at his team's record his last couple of years. Not counting the COVID year he was 3-9 twice and 1-11 his last 3 full years.

Absolutely. That was the whole bit ... they wanted to fire him. They just wanted to be cheap asses about it. They saw a chance to try to fire him without paying a dollar of the buyout he was due.

But obviously that doesn't count as cause.

I'm saying just for the cause .... it wouldn't be good enough simply that hazing had occurred. That would not qualify as cause.


If it did, then the lawsuit would not have had any merit and would have been thrown out. That it was not (not to mention that NW then settled) proves that their allegation was more than simply that hazing had occurred.

It had to be something like that he knew about it and looked the other way or tried to cover it up.

 

[Word]

Absolutely. That was the whole bit ... they wanted to fire him. They just wanted to be cheap asses about it. They saw a chance to try to fire him without paying a dollar of the buyout he was due.

But obviously that doesn't count as cause.

I'm saying just for the cause .... it wouldn't be good enough simply that hazing had occurred. That would not qualify as cause.


If it did, then the lawsuit would not have had any merit and would have been thrown out. That it was not (not to mention that NW then settled) proves that their allegation was more than simply that hazing had occurred.

It had to be something like that he knew about it and looked the other way or tried to cover it up.

Could be as simple as they were close to firing him anyway, but why keep a losing coach who also is clueless about hazing in his program. Easy out (or at least they thought it would be easy).

 

[WindyCityGopher]

I wonder where Fitz will end up now. Have to believe he'd be an attractive HC candidate in the MAC, or as a DC at a P4 school. Or maybe he got so much money from this settlement that he's happy just doing more volunteer coaching at Loyola Academy with his youngest son.