Nice job by SDSU and their fine coach

[DarthGopher]

When one has this type of information- they cannot give their source on a forum like this. That wouldn't be right.

When one has this kind of information, they also don't hide behind an anonymous user name on a message board. And since when did message boards become the beacon of information integrity? The whole point is to provide an opaque outlet for people to puff their chests and bloviate, isn't it?

 

[cjbfbp]

When one has this type of information- they cannot give their source on a forum like this. That wouldn't be right.

Well, that's one possibility. The other one is that the poster is a bullshitter or simply gullible. Since at least half of this board is populated by bullshitters and the gullible, I'd say the latter explanation is more probable.

I don't believe that the U of M president ordered Coyle to hire Ben Johnson. I believe that there was persuasion and maybe even some pressure (I'd say more likely coming from the EEO office than the president) and an indication by participants that this hire would be in conformity with university goals. I think Coyle probably is a savvy bureaucrat and simply chose not to fight this battle. I also believe that his administration is not prioritizing basketball at the moment and Johnson was a cheap hire and would be a relatively cheap fire.

 

[bga1]

When one has this kind of information, they also don't hide behind an anonymous user name on a message board. And since when did message boards become the beacon of information integrity? The whole point is to provide an opaque outlet for people to puff their chests and bloviate, isn't it?

Darth- if you were an insider and gave me inside information, I'd never go on the GH and broadcast it without permission. I think there are a few posters here who actually get some of that info and there are others who claim they know, but don't. I am willing to take the good with the bad and assess the information I get.

I really wish that the staff would use outlets like this to leak some information that might create a little optimism. It would be great if we were hearing that Betts or Ihnen or Fox were doing great in practice. Since we hear nothing, everyone expects that they are not going to help us at all. I'd love it if some information leaked that portal recruiting was going well, etc.

 

[Gophs24]

as much as i want Ben Johnson to succeed here......why was i hoping for SDSU to lose yesterday and the U was making an announcement of firing Ben Johnson and hiring Dutcher?

and why now, am i patientily waiting for SDSU's season to end, whenever that will be, and crossing my fingers we make a move?

 

[harti]

Darth- if you were an insider and gave me inside information, I'd never go on the GH and broadcast it without permission. I think there are a few posters here who actually get some of that info and there are others who claim they know, but don't. I am willing to take the good with the bad and assess the information I get.

I really wish that the staff would use outlets like this to leak some information that might create a little optimism. It would be great if we were hearing that Betts or Ihnen or Fox were doing great in practice. Since we hear nothing, everyone expects that they are not going to help us at all. I'd love it if some information leaked that portal recruiting was going well, etc.

Well I know Ihnen personally and can tell you that he is doing great if that is any help. Also heard from him that Betts seems to be a knockdown shooter.

 

[bga1]

Well, that's one possibility. The other one is that the poster is a bullshitter or simply gullible. Since at least half of this board is populated by bullshitters and the gullible, I'd say the latter explanation is more probable.

I don't believe that the U of M president ordered Coyle to hire Ben Johnson. I believe that there was persuasion and maybe even some pressure (I'd say more likely coming from the EEO office than the president) and an indication by participants that this hire would be in conformity with university goals. I think Coyle probably is a savvy bureaucrat and simply chose not to fight this battle. I also believe that his administration is not prioritizing basketball at the moment and Johnson was a cheap hire and would be a relatively cheap fire.

Obviously Ben is not a cheap fire- not at an 8 million buyout. So if they were thinking that- it was an epic failure. When you hire a minority coach, you had better be prepared to get behind that coach because you will pay a price for firing that coach in terms of PR.

Was Coyle ordered to do it? I don't know but a strong suggestion from your boss that this is the decision they want is pretty much an order. If he didn't do it he knew he was going to run into obstacles with hiring the person he wanted. If Gabel wanted Ben, do you think she was going to let Coyle have an extra million or so to hire Dutcher? No chance.

 

[bga1]

Well I know Ihnen personally and can tell you that he is doing great if that is any help. Also heard from him that Betts seems to be a knockdown shooter.

Love to hear this! I would love nothing more than to see Ihnen and Fox be big contributors and have success next year! Thanks! We need more news like this!!

 

[cjbfbp]

Obviously Ben is not a cheap fire- not at an 8 million buyout. So if they were thinking that- it was an epic failure. When you hire a minority coach, you had better be prepared to get behind that coach because you will pay a price for firing that coach in terms of PR.

Was Coyle ordered to do it? I don't know but a strong suggestion from your boss that this is the decision they want is pretty much an order. If he didn't do it he knew he was going to run into obstacles with hiring the person he wanted. If Gabel wanted Ben, do you think she was going to let Coyle have an extra million or so to hire Dutcher? No chance.

I'd like to see the real documentation of his buyout because I strongly doubt that $8 million figure is applicable to what the situation would be in case of his firing. The Star Tribune reported on the contract that was originally approved by the regents. The contract was for five years (that would be through 2026). The buyout terms after Year 3 were 75% of his remaining salary. That would be $1.95 million x 2 years x .75 = $2.925 million. That's relatively cheap for firing a P6 coach these days. There was no way he was going to be fired after two years anyway.

Now, he was extended to 2027 but that doesn't mean necessarily that his buyout was increased. Recall that the last time Coyle extended Pitino the terms of his buyout did not change. Even if his buyout was increased by a year and he were fired after Year 3, that would still be only be $4.39 million.

 

[TheRealUncleRico]

Brian Dutcher will remain San Diego State basketball coach, says ‘this is home’

Home, it turns out, is where you are.Brian Dutcher is staying as San Diego State’s basketball coach after a crazy three days that culminated Monday afternoon with Minnesota hiring Xavier assi…

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

According to the San Diego tribune they said Coyle wanted to interview dutcher but Dutch wanted a few days to talk with his people first and Coyle didn’t want to wait. That doesn’t sound like an AD pounding the table for his guy and being overridden by the president. Wish Dutch was here then and now, but he’s not and almost certainly won’t be. Hopefully Ben can pull in some transfers and take a big stride forward next year.

 

[DarthGopher]

Darth- if you were an insider and gave me inside information, I'd never go on the GH and broadcast it without permission. I think there are a few posters here who actually get some of that info and there are others who claim they know, but don't. I am willing to take the good with the bad and assess the information I get.

I really wish that the staff would use outlets like this to leak some information that might create a little optimism. It would be great if we were hearing that Betts or Ihnen or Fox were doing great in practice. Since we hear nothing, everyone expects that they are not going to help us at all. I'd love it if some information leaked that portal recruiting was going well, etc.

I can certainly understand and agree to some extent. I use this argument all the time at work. When leaders are not transparent, people WILL fill in the gaps. That is just human nature. Once they have decided that their gap filler is the truth, it is very hard to overcome that inertia because people have become emotionally attached to the version they have created. To them, it IS the truth because it FEELS like the truth. People who tend to be almost pathologically logical fail to recognize this subletly all the time. They are seemingly blindsided and dumbfounded as to why others would be so worked up over something they don't recognize as a big deal.

Don't want people filling in gaps with BS information? Then provide an alternative (within reasonable limits of course). This is hard to do, no matter who the person is. I've seen leaders fail to do this with a team of 7 or less people. It can be very time consuming and there is always that balance between enough information and too much information. Easy to get overwhelmed with so many balls in the air at once. I can't imagine trying to do this in a large, very public program that for all intents and purposes is in a coma at a Level 1 Trauma Center. It is even harder for those with a more reserved personality who are not natural performance artists. I'd put CBJ in that category. Contrast that with Fleck who some might say is too much of a performance artist. (I personally do not have any beef with how Fleck uses his high energy motor, but some do)

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Do you quit your job every time your boss makes a decision you disagree with?

If I disagree with a decision, I've always been free to tell my staff that I advocated against it, but was overruled for X, Y, and Z reasons, and we are going to have to make it work.

Similarly, if I give a directive (especially if I am overruling someone on something that would normally been within their discretion), I am always willing to have the decision be in my name.

 

[GoldenUMNGopher]

Brian Dutcher will remain San Diego State basketball coach, says ‘this is home’

Home, it turns out, is where you are.Brian Dutcher is staying as San Diego State’s basketball coach after a crazy three days that culminated Monday afternoon with Minnesota hiring Xavier assi…

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

According to the San Diego tribune they said Coyle wanted to interview dutcher but Dutch wanted a few days to talk with his people first and Coyle didn’t want to wait. That doesn’t sound like an AD pounding the table for his guy and being overridden by the president. Wish Dutch was here then and now, but he’s not and almost certainly won’t be. Hopefully Ben can pull in some transfers and take a big stride forward next year.

Coyle was worried someone would snatch up Ben before us?

 

[USAF]

In my experience, people in the upper echelons of society (i.e. "leaders" of large organizations) tend to congregate and run in the same circles. They eat dinner at the same club, hang out on weekends at exclusive events, their kids go to the same private schools, etc. They become completely detached from 99% of everyone else and they are completely oblivious as to how their actions might be viewed, because they are only concerned with the reactions of the very select company they keep. These people also tend to become quite self-absorbed, so it turns into a malignant self-reinforcement loop that quickly descends into a drunken power orgy. Feeling superior and believing their own shit, they start doing "leadership", and you can probably guess how that usually turns out. The rest of us end up stepping in it.

Lol. "In your experience?"

You're one of these people then?

 

[bga1]

I can certainly understand and agree to some extent. I use this argument all the time at work. When leaders are not transparent, people WILL fill in the gaps. That is just human nature. Once they have decided that their gap filler is the truth, it is very hard to overcome that inertia because people have become emotionally attached to the version they have created. To them, it IS the truth because it FEELS like the truth. People who tend to be almost pathologically logical fail to recognize this subletly all the time. They are seemingly blindsided and dumbfounded as to why others would be so worked up over something they don't recognize as a big deal.

Don't want people filling in gaps with BS information? Then provide an alternative (within reasonable limits of course). This is hard to do, no matter who the person is. I've seen leaders fail to do this with a team of 7 or less people. It can be very time consuming and there is always that balance between enough information and too much information. Easy to get overwhelmed with so many balls in the air at once. I can't imagine trying to do this in a large, very public program that for all intents and purposes is in a coma at a Level 1 Trauma Center. It is even harder for those with a more reserved personality who are not natural performance artists. I'd put CBJ in that category. Contrast that with Fleck who some might say is too much of a performance artist. (I personally do not have any beef with how Fleck uses his high energy motor, but some do)

Good post. I always say- perception is reality to onlookers. On this board people see us losing games consistently. Their perception is that the coach can't coach, the players don't respect the coach and that nothing is ever going to change. The guys that are injured or who will be new will never help because they haven't heard anything different. You have to put out something to erase that perception or at least modify it.

Clem used to go on Sid's show every week and talk about what players needed to learn and how they were developing and getting better. He would set longer term expectations -such as Willie needs time in the gym, needs to add 20 pounds of muscle and will be a fine player for the U of M someday. Or he would say that X player can really shoot it and will help us next year. There was a constant mechanism for the fans to pick up some tidbit that gave you hope. In some cases he would be saying that such and such player has to learn to block out better. It just let you know that the players were accountable, the coach had expectations and that things would get better. Usually they did. Sid had the guts to ask the questions about players than most interviewers don't seem to ask, which frustrates me.

If I am Ben, I am out there right now giving interviews and talking about what great potential this team has- how Ihnen and Fox are progressing, how Betts looks, how Christie was all state in Illinois' highest league and how they are going to be going all out to get some added talent to make a good run next year.

 

[howeda7]

Coyle was worried someone would snatch up Ben before us?

Austin Peay is always lurking.

 

[WindyCityGopher]

But that is not the vision that the Minneapolis Spokesman-Recorder has for Ben.....

For Gopher men’s hoops, ‘the sky is not falling’ | Minnesota Spokesman-Recorder

'The criticism naturally comes with the territory of coaching in college or professional sports.'

spokesman-recorder.com

Charles Hallman’s agenda comes through very clearly with this question:

“Do you believe that the criticism you received this season was unfair or maybe would not have occurred if you weren’t Black?”

I mean, holy hell. Ben’s team that he assembled and coached went 2-17 in conference, which is the worst winning percentage in program history. Any criticism that came his way is because he and his team sucked at historic levels, not because he’s Black.

 

[forever a gopher]

Charles Hallman’s agenda comes through very clearly with this question:

“Do you believe that the criticism you received this season was unfair or maybe would not have occurred if you weren’t Black?”

I mean, holy hell. Ben’s team that he assembled and coached went 2-17 in conference, which is the worst winning percentage in program history. Any criticism that came his way is because he and his team sucked at historic levels, not because he’s Black.

It literally doesn't matter, and never will. There are certain people that love to always play the "victim" card, and will invent ways to always have that be the case. It would seem this Hallman gentleman is one of those people (I will fully admit, the only thing I've read of his are these articles posted on GopherHole, so my perspective may be skewed). But the victim mentality that is pervasive in our current culture just invents ways to have it not be their fault. If CBJ goes 2-17 in conference, that only means he either 1. hasn't been given enough time, or 2. isn't being given the resources. But what is the definition of "enough time" or "enough resources"? Of course, those vague terms are conveniently largely undefinable, so the author's assertations cannot be proven false. It's a boogeyman that is easy to hide behind when facts and figures prove to be too damning.

I guarantee you that if CBJ's squad finishes dead last for the next 5 consecutive years, people like this will be beating the same drum. Ergo, my stance is it doesn't matter if you fire him today or in 5 years, you'll catch heat either way, so you may as well pull the band aid off now.

 

[atsgopher]

Well I know Ihnen personally and can tell you that he is doing great if that is any help. Also heard from him that Betts seems to be a knockdown shooter.

It doesn’t help because you stopped.

We want more. It’s such a, what have you done for me lately thread isn’t it?

 

[Dakota2]

Well, that's one possibility. The other one is that the poster is a bullshitter or simply gullible. Since at least half of this board is populated by bullshitters and the gullible, I'd say the latter explanation is more probable.

I don't believe that the U of M president ordered Coyle to hire Ben Johnson. I believe that there was persuasion and maybe even some pressure (I'd say more likely coming from the EEO office than the president) and an indication by participants that this hire would be in conformity with university goals. I think Coyle probably is a savvy bureaucrat and simply chose not to fight this battle. I also believe that his administration is not prioritizing basketball at the moment and Johnson was a cheap hire and would be a relatively cheap fire.

If you send bullshitters to one side of the room and the gullible to the other ... You're going to have a lot of confused posters.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Brian Dutcher will remain San Diego State basketball coach, says ‘this is home’

Home, it turns out, is where you are.Brian Dutcher is staying as San Diego State’s basketball coach after a crazy three days that culminated Monday afternoon with Minnesota hiring Xavier assi…

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

According to the San Diego tribune they said Coyle wanted to interview dutcher but Dutch wanted a few days to talk with his people first and Coyle didn’t want to wait. That doesn’t sound like an AD pounding the table for his guy and being overridden by the president. Wish Dutch was here then and now, but he’s not and almost certainly won’t be. Hopefully Ben can pull in some transfers and take a big stride forward next year.

Coulda lost Ben waiting for the Dutcher response tho. Risk v. Reward

 

[Gophers_4life]

It would actually be much much scarier if this wasn't the truth.

If we chose Ben Johnson over Dutcher and the "equity" piece had nothing to do with it, that's WAY scarier than if our AD actually thought Ben was a better pick.

We know Coyle can hire the right coach. He has done it.

If there wasn't Whalen, I'd be all in on the usual narrative. But he did hire her. Also no head coach experience. Maybe he convinced himself that it isn't needed in basketball? I'm flailing.

 

[Gophers_4life]

If Coyle had any balls at all he would’ve quit, but if your account is true he let his boss overrule him on a critically important hire and sat there and took it. To me that’s just as bad as if he made the hire himself. So Coyle makes nearly $1 million per year to be a yes man to the president?

It's not binary, like you make it out to be.

Everyone reports to the president, and that person has final say. Just like in government.

Coyle has it good here, and his job is safe thanks to the Fleck and Motzko hires. Those are our two main "identity" sports.

He'd be a fool to walk off the job because of one decision like that, if it indeed went down like that.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Well, that's one possibility. The other one is that the poster is a bullshitter or simply gullible. Since at least half of this board is populated by bullshitters and the gullible, I'd say the latter explanation is more probable.

I don't believe that the U of M president ordered Coyle to hire Ben Johnson. I believe that there was persuasion and maybe even some pressure (I'd say more likely coming from the EEO office than the president) and an indication by participants that this hire would be in conformity with university goals. I think Coyle probably is a savvy bureaucrat and simply chose not to fight this battle. I also believe that his administration is not prioritizing basketball at the moment and Johnson was a cheap hire and would be a relatively cheap fire.

It doesn't have to be all on Gable.

The U of MN regents have just as much, sometimes more say, in the final decision, if they want to have it. They have to approve all contracts.


It was an incredible, once in a generation (hopefully) situation of racial tension.

Would there have been riots because the U didn't hire a Black man as basketball coach? I hope not ... but you can bet the S-R, etc. would be up in arms. So who knows

 

[BleedGopher]

Shama chimes in:

When the announcement came that Minnesota athletic director Mark Coyle and head coach Richard Pitino had parted ways, Dutcher was coaching his team in the NCAA Tournament. After the Aztecs were eliminated in a first round loss to Syracuse, Coyle and Brian spoke by phone about the Minnesota opening, per Jim Dutcher.

Jim told Sports Headliners yesterday his son and Coyle talked about getting together but never did. Soon after the initial conversation, Coyle called again to say he had hired former Gopher guard and assistant coach Ben Johnson, who was then an assistant at Xavier. Jim said he understood the reasoning at the time for Coyle’s decision to hire a coach with “Minnesota connections” for recruiting and building the program around more high level local talent.

Would Brian have accepted the Gopher job if offered? “I don’t know,” his father said.

What’s for certain is Brian publicly demonstrated his interest in the U by including the modest buyout in his contract. “It’s my school, where I went, and was able to be part of that basketball program with my dad,” Brian told the Union-Tribune. “But it’s still a buyout. It’s not like it’s free.”

David Shama's Minnesota Sports Headliners

Go Gophers!!

 

[Dave H]

When one has this type of information- they cannot give their source on a forum like this. That wouldn't be right.

Right but then we have every right to assume said poster is full of it. And I do.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Shama chimes in:

When the announcement came that Minnesota athletic director Mark Coyle and head coach Richard Pitino had parted ways, Dutcher was coaching his team in the NCAA Tournament. After the Aztecs were eliminated in a first round loss to Syracuse, Coyle and Brian spoke by phone about the Minnesota opening, per Jim Dutcher.

Jim told Sports Headliners yesterday his son and Coyle talked about getting together but never did. Soon after the initial conversation, Coyle called again to say he had hired former Gopher guard and assistant coach Ben Johnson, who was then an assistant at Xavier. Jim said he understood the reasoning at the time for Coyle’s decision to hire a coach with “Minnesota connections” for recruiting and building the program around more high level local talent.

Would Brian have accepted the Gopher job if offered? “I don’t know,” his father said.

What’s for certain is Brian publicly demonstrated his interest in the U by including the modest buyout in his contract. “It’s my school, where I went, and was able to be part of that basketball program with my dad,” Brian told the Union-Tribune. “But it’s still a buyout. It’s not like it’s free.”

David Shama's Minnesota Sports Headliners

Go Gophers!!

It sounds like now that Dutcher has accomplished things that have never been done before at SDSU, he and Coyle need to actually get together and figure out how he's going to do the same thing at Minnesota as soon as the tournament is over.

 

[Bad Gopher]

It sounds like now that Dutcher has accomplished things that have never been done before at SDSU, he and Coyle need to actually get together and figure out how he's going to do the same thing at Minnesota as soon as the tournament is over.

That's the way I look at it: not that it's necessarily inevitable or even probable, but that Coyle would be derelict to not investigate it as a possibility. Dutcher will either stay and retire at San Diego State or he'll take this opportunity--probably his last, considering his age--to try his hand at a major-conference job. If he does that, it would be here.

I almost think it would be MORE likely to happen now than two years ago, because of what you said. The 30-2 team that was prevented from competing in the championship tournament in 2020 left unfinished business for him in San Diego. Win or lose in the Final Four, it feels like mission accomplished at SDSU.

 

[Gophs24]

That's the way I look at it: not that it's necessarily inevitable or even probable, but that Coyle would be derelict to not investigate it as a possibility. Dutcher will either stay and retire at San Diego State or he'll take this opportunity--probably his last, considering his age--to try his hand at a major-conference job. If he does that, it would be here.

I almost think it would be MORE likely to happen now than two years ago, because of what you said. The 30-2 team that was prevented from competing in the championship tournament in 2020 left unfinished business for him in San Diego. Win or lose in the Final Four, it feels like mission accomplished at SDSU.

i dont.....i bet he was already starting to pack two years ago and was just waiting for the call....

 

[Bad Gopher]

i dont.....i bet he was already starting to pack two years ago and was just waiting for the call....

I bet not. My guess is that he gave tepid vibes to Coyle, and that's a/the reason he pivoted as quickly as he did. That's just a guess, but it's my guess.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

That's the way I look at it: not that it's necessarily inevitable or even probable, but that Coyle would be derelict to not investigate it as a possibility. Dutcher will either stay and retire at San Diego State or he'll take this opportunity--probably his last, considering his age--to try his hand at a major-conference job. If he does that, it would be here.

I almost think it would be MORE likely to happen now than two years ago, because of what you said. The 30-2 team that was prevented from competing in the championship tournament in 2020 left unfinished business for him in San Diego. Win or lose in the Final Four, it feels like mission accomplished at SDSU.

I'm going to hold out hope for about 10 more days before I finally give up