Nelson's Development

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Maverick_52

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Obviously the play of Philip Nelson is going to be the key to the Gophers success this fall. Yes, he struggled last year and went through some tough times, but he showed signs that he can be a great QB in the Big Ten. How good do you think this kid can be? In my opinion he has the talent to be the best QB the gophers have had in a long time. He is more athletic than Adam Weber and has more intangibles than Weber did as well. I think the experience Phil got last season is really going to help him breakout this fall.
 

I think not having Gray around any longer and not having to think about musical quarterbacks will help a lot. He should be surrounded by everything he needs to succeed, a healthier O-Line, some good TE's, maybe an improved running game with Edwards here. Receiver development and familiarity will be key this year, they need to develop that more this year and we should be good. I know one of his former coaches and he speaks glowingly about Nelson.
 

I really like Nelson. But what do people think about his arm strength? It looked to be about his biggest weakness from what I could tell last year. I imagine a lot of it may be a combination of a freshman not confident in his throws as well as an offensive line that didn't give him enough time to really step into it.

I saw him play a game in high school, and he appeared to have a cannon then, so I am under the I hope that the strength is there. Last year, during the game where he hit #82 for some deep balls showed promise, but even those throws had a lot of air under them.

Don't get me wrong, I think he could be great. I just wonder what you folks think about the arm strength.
 

Maverick_52 said:
Obviously the play of Philip Nelson is going to be the key to the Gophers success this fall. Yes, he struggled last year and went through some tough times, but he showed signs that he can be a great QB in the Big Ten. How good do you think this kid can be? In my opinion he has the talent to be the best QB the gophers have had in a long time. He is more athletic than Adam Weber and has more intangibles than Weber did as well. I think the experience Phil got last season is really going to help him breakout this fall.
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Tough to say based on the limited sample size from last year just how good Nelson may or may not be. He definitely showed that he can play at the Big Ten level and be a decent QB, now that he has had some more time in the system we will start to see if he can embrace the offense and make it go.

I agree he has more intangibles that Weber but don't sell short the fact that Web was good enough to lead this team for 4 years. He takes a lot of unfair criticism considering all the different systems and coordinators he was forced to play under. Had he been allowed to play in one system for his entire college career I think he could have been a phenomenal QB for us. As it played out he was still a very good qb but never a great one.
 

Improved play by Nelson and the OL are critical to an improved offense. Both units gained valuable experience last season which is a plus.

The question ramains whether Nelson and the OL have the talent and ability to allow the Gophers to put a solid O on the field? A lot of GH-ers have already assumed that the OL will be a strength in 2013. Maybe so or maybe not. It could be that both Nelson and the OL are two years or more away.

One thing for certain is both units must stay healthy.
 


Maverick_52 said:
Obviously the play of Philip Nelson is going to be the key to the Gophers success this fall. Yes, he struggled last year and went through some tough times, but he showed signs that he can be a great QB in the Big Ten. How good do you think this kid can be? In my opinion he has the talent to be the best QB the gophers have had in a long time. He is more athletic than Adam Weber and has more intangibles than Weber did as well. I think the experience Phil got last season is really going to help him breakout this fall.
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I think he will be a good QB but what are these intangibles you speak of and how do you evaluate them from the bleachers?
 

GopherGod said:
I think he will be a good QB but what are these intangibles you speak of and how do you evaluate them from the bleachers?
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GG, I hate to pop anyone's bubble, but the terms "intangibles" "arm strength" "athletic" amongst others are what commentors use to make it sound like they know what they are talking about, because the terms are never defined, just used. Sorry, ol' chap.
 

LBJ said:
Last year, during the game where he hit #82 for some deep balls showed promise, but even those throws had a lot of air under them.
.
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I don't know about his arm strength, but Gray missed some open receivers by not throwing a ball with not enough loft on the ball. It might be the case that Nelson lacked the college accuracy to throw a dart.
 

If we had someone as good as Weber, and a good OL and defense, we would be in fine shape. I think Nelson can do that. My expectation is that Weber had better arm strength, but Nelson is more accurate and a better runner.
But that is not the biggest advantage. The biggest advantage is one system, one OC, one QB coach, and a good o-line.
We don't have a Decker, but if we really have the rest, we are way ahead.
 



Has anyone actually seen him throw a ball since the bowl game?

If I'll give the obvious answer, he has to get better.
 

I like the fact that we have 7 QB's listed on the Scholarship Grid (Nelson, Foreman, Leidner, Streveler, Rhoda, Conway & D. Jones). It will be interesting to see how this shakes out over the next 3-4 years.
 

westcoastgopher11 said:
Has anyone actually seen him throw a ball since the bowl game?

If I'll give the obvious answer, he has to get better.
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I don't have his stats handy but I thought the bowl game was one of his better games, same goes for the "o" line.
 

We should have kept Max and let Nelson sit for another year. Huge mistake that sets this team back 1-2 years.
 




Max did throw darts across the middle but keeping Max wasn't an option. he chose to leave- ** i believe in part cuz the coach went headstrong on keeping PN in games. (**speculation)
 

PurplePride said:
We should have kept Max and let Nelson sit for another year. Huge mistake that sets this team back 1-2 years.
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I disagree, of course there is no way of knowing one way or the other. I don't think Max was a good fit for this offense, and I don't think he would have done much better than Nelson last year.
 

Carnac the Magnificent said:
I like the fact that we have 7 QB's listed on the Scholarship Grid (Nelson, Foreman, Leidner, Streveler, Rhoda, Conway & D. Jones). It will be interesting to see how this shakes out over the next 3-4 years.
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We may have 7 guys listed at the QB position but I don't think we have 7 QB's. Looking at that list I see this

QB's - Nelson, Leidner, Streveler or Jones
WR or another position - Rhoda, Streveler or Jones
Scout team - Conners (not listed), Conway
Unknown - Foreman

We have a number of bodies at QB but I don't think many of them will ever take a snap at QB during a game. Foreman is a complete unknown because he never seemed to be in the mix last season with all the QB turmoil we were having. I know Jones was promised a shot at QB but I highly doubt he sticks there. They have already been talking about Streveler like he has a chance to be a decent WR. I still feel like we may be a little thin in terms of viable options at QB. The scary part is that we have very little experience at the position.
 

But how often Bayfield have we heard that we are two years away. And in two years we are saying the same thing. Sure hope our offensive line still isnt two years away. Give Nelson a good OL and off we go.
 

corcoran1 said:
If we had someone as good as Weber, and a good OL and defense, we would be in fine shape. I think Nelson can do that. My expectation is that Weber had better arm strength, but Nelson is more accurate and a better runner.
But that is not the biggest advantage. The biggest advantage is one system, one OC, one QB coach, and a good o-line.
We don't have a Decker, but if we really have the rest, we are way ahead.
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You think so? I guess you are right since he doesn't seem to have the bounce pass in his repertoire.
 

I will donate a hundo to the u if they try a real bounce pass. google it
 

I worry about his arm strength. He threw a Joe Kapp like ball way too many times last season. If he continues with the floaters, he will get picked-off a lot. If he tightens his throws, he has the accuracy to be really solid imo.
 

Doc1001 said:
But how often Bayfield have we heard that we are two years away. And in two years we are saying the same thing. Sure hope our offensive line still isnt two years away. Give Nelson a good OL and off we go.
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Yes, it seems that way.

The BIG stats tell a lot but obviously not the whole story. Nelson ranked at or near the bottom in many passing categories in the BIG and completed just 50% of his throws. More alarming is his 5.1% INT:attempts ratio which was by far the worse in the conference. I didn't look at his rushing stats but, at best, he does not have the wheels to match the top running QB's. I realize he was a true FR and he should get better with better and more experienced players around him. Can we expect his completions to improve to approach 60% and INT ratio around 3% and better yd/carry? I think the whole scenerio is much more than just giving Nelson a good OL.

Our running game is a reflection on the OL and it ranked #9 in total yds but just 3.6 yd/carry. Compare that to OSU 5.2, Wisky 5.1, NU 5.3. Do we have the makings to up that to 4.0-4.2 range? Assuming everyone will improve their performance and stay healthy, IMO the best we can expect is a mid-pack ranked BIG offense.

BTW, the pass protection and rushing was better last year. But the offense only managed 17 ppg which was #11 in the BIG. And we ranked last in 3rd down conversions and first downs. Much work to be done here.

The good news is this is still a young offense and "should" be stronger in 2014. But the OL could still be very young in 2014 if guys like Persig, Hayes, Lauer, Bush, Mayes, Bobek, etc. step-up and earn starting spots. And possibly Edwards, Harbison, Carter and other FR wide receivers or other QB's may be better than what we now have.

It seems as if the depth on offense has improved greatly. And the system is stable. But, the question remains, when will the #1 guys have the makings to compete with the top BIG teams?
 

Those stats from last year are certainly ugly but I think you have to toss them out a little for a few reasons.

1. Injuries on the O-Line
2. True Freshman QB / rotating QB's
3. Losing your only viable threat at WR early in the conference season

Assuming we are not as snakebitten by injuries I think we will get a much better feel for how successful this offense may/may not be in conference play this coming season. WR is still a major question mark and I don't put a ton of stock in being able to run the ball against Texas Tech in the bowl game (their defense was soft, especially against the run)
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Yes, it seems that way.

The BIG stats tell a lot but obviously not the whole story. Nelson ranked at or near the bottom in many passing categories in the BIG and completed just 50% of his throws. More alarming is his 5.1% INT:attempts ratio which was by far the worse in the conference. I didn't look at his rushing stats but, at best, he does not have the wheels to match the top running QB's. I realize he was a true FR and he should get better with better and more experienced players around him. Can we expect his completions to improve to approach 60% and INT ratio around 3% and better yd/carry? I think the whole scenerio is much more than just giving Nelson a good OL.

Our running game is a reflection on the OL and it ranked #9 in total yds but just 3.6 yd/carry. Compare that to OSU 5.2, Wisky 5.1, NU 5.3. Do we have the makings to up that to 4.0-4.2 range? Assuming everyone will improve their performance and stay healthy, IMO the best we can expect is a mid-pack ranked BIG offense.

BTW, the pass protection and rushing was better last year. But the offense only managed 17 ppg which was #11 in the BIG. And we ranked last in 3rd down conversions and first downs. Much work to be done here.

The good news is this is still a young offense and "should" be stronger in 2014. But the OL could still be very young in 2014 if guys like Persig, Hayes, Lauer, Bush, Mayes, Bobek, etc. step-up and earn starting spots. And possibly Edwards, Harbison, Carter and other FR wide receivers or other QB's may be better than what we now have.

It seems as if the depth on offense has improved greatly. And the system is stable. But, the question remains, when will the #1 guys have the makings to compete with the top BIG teams?
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Not completely in my opinion. Most agree the OL improved last year, yet we averaged 3.9 yards a carry in the BT in 2011. The biggest reason was Gray only having 16 carries in the Big Ten this year.
 

Killjoy said:
You think so? I guess you are right since he doesn't seem to have the bounce pass in his repertoire.
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Yes I do think so. Given the fact he the hell beat out of him for four years, Weber's productivity was very good. Decker helped a lot of course, but Weber was not our biggest problem by a lot. How many B1G teams in the last decade have had QBs consitently better than Weber? Not many.
Most of the guys who have looked good would have gotten killed behind our o-lines. Especially the OSU guys.
 

corcoran1 said:
Yes I do think so. Given the fact he the hell beat out of him for four years, Weber's productivity was very good. Decker helped a lot of course, but Weber was not our biggest problem by a lot. How many B1G teams in the last decade have had QBs consitently better than Weber? Not many.
Most of the guys who have looked good would have gotten killed behind our o-lines. Especially the OSU guys.
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Totally agree, Weber gets far to much blame for things around here. He was a good QB who was never given the opportunity to get comfortable in a system due to coaching and coordinator changes. Nelson has the stability thing going for him so now we will get to find out if he has the talent to be a big time Big Ten QB. Would be nice if the staff could find him an Eric Decker to help take some of the pressure off.
 

Let's not use Adam Weber as a benchmark. He maybe the last quarterback anyone can remember, but he was an adequate to below average Big 10 QB. Whether it is Nelson he will need to show two things. Protect the ball, and make plays on third down. Simple. How he does it, is a whole different thing. Does he have a big time, Big 10 back behind him? Does he have a tightend? Can someone make a play on the outside? Can he run for the first down? If he is say plus 55% on third down, everyone will claim he is as good Rickey Foggie. And if he hits a back on circle route, or someone cacthes a tipped ball on a critical fourth down. And if he is able to consistently complete passes at say 60%, make the defense play a full 40 X 40 yard field, and takes control of the game, he could be the best QB I have seen at Minnesota. There are enough coulda wouldas in there. But he has a chance to be special. And then there is Mitch Leidner, who was red shirted. This could be the competitiion every position needs.
 

husker70 said:
Let's not use Adam Weber as a benchmark. He maybe the last quarterback anyone can remember, but he was an adequate to below average Big 10 QB.
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There are 2 QBs in Big Ten HISTORY to throw for more yards than Adam. You can say that's skewed because we were behind in so many games or whatever, but I have a hard time believing that he's "below average".
 

I would have loved to see Weber play with a team that had the offensive talent that Cupito's teams had. I thoughr Cupito was a very ordinary QB who did most of his damage against the non-conference schedule. It would have been nice to see Weber play with the line and talent Cupito had the chance to use.
 

FreakyDeke said:
There are 2 QBs in Big Ten HISTORY to throw for more yards than Adam. You can say that's skewed because we were behind in so many games or whatever, but I have a hard time believing that he's "below average".
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+1. He was not great but he definitely was not below average.
 

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