NCCA looking at faking of injuries

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About the only possible thing you could do would be to require players to be out for longer than one play. But that would be a pain in the butt to enforce and keep track of.

The Penn State/Iowa situation still makes no sense in that there is no reason why Penn State would fake injuries to slow down one of the slowest moving teams in football.

This feels like trying to solve an issue that isn't really there.
 


Georgia did this a few times versus Alabama. The “injured” players were back and full speed within a few minutes. Pretty obvious, pretty blatant. Clutching at ankles, etc.

The rule should be if they are injured enough to call a stoppage in play, ie so injured they are unable to ambulate themselves to the sideline within 30-40 seconds, they’re done for the half. Truly injured players shouldn’t be going back out and aggravating problems anyway.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Georgia did this a few times versus Alabama. The “injured” players were back and full speed within a few minutes. Pretty obvious, pretty blatant. Clutching at ankles, etc.

The rule should be if they are injured enough to call a stoppage in play, ie so injured they are unable to ambulate themselves to the sideline within 30-40 seconds, they’re done for the half. Truly injured players shouldn’t be going back out and aggravating problems anyway.
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This works for me.

This probably should be the rule, and have been this way for a while.

I don't think it would be any more difficult to "keep track of" than guys who are ejected for targeting.


Question is this: do you draw the line at being able to walk off the field under your own power? Because then you will have guys who fall down in pain, training staff comes out, they delay for a minute, then the guy springs up and walks off under his own power.

So that still accomplishes the fraudulent delay.
 

I think stuff like this is what they're going after:

 

Pompous Elitist said:
Georgia did this a few times versus Alabama. The “injured” players were back and full speed within a few minutes. Pretty obvious, pretty blatant. Clutching at ankles, etc.

The rule should be if they are injured enough to call a stoppage in play, ie so injured they are unable to ambulate themselves to the sideline within 30-40 seconds, they’re done for the half. Truly injured players shouldn’t be going back out and aggravating problems anyway.
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What about cramps? Those can legitimately make it so a player can't get off the field under their own power quickly and might cause a stoppage of play, however there isn't a long term issue and the player will tend to recover quickly.

Being done for the half would be pretty strong penalty for a player who is cramping up. Football is a violent game, there are lots of times where guys are in a lot of pain for short periods but are able to recover and aren't injured.

Yes it sucks when guys fake injuries but I really don't think it happens enough to put the officials in the position of having to decide if a player is faking it or not. And you definitely don't want to put the players in the position of feeling like they have to scramble off the field to avoid losing a big chunk of playing time for being hurt on a play.
 



No perfect answer to the issue. They could charge time-outs to the team in it's in the last 2 minutes of a half. They also should just stop stopping the clock on every first down and that that would make up for time lost to any injury.
 

MNVCGUY said:
What about cramps? Those can legitimately make it so a player can't get off the field under their own power quickly and might cause a stoppage of play, however there isn't a long term issue and the player will tend to recover quickly.

Being done for the half would be pretty strong penalty for a player who is cramping up. Football is a violent game, there are lots of times where guys are in a lot of pain for short periods but are able to recover and aren't injured.

Yes it sucks when guys fake injuries but I really don't think it happens enough to put the officials in the position of having to decide if a player is faking it or not. And you definitely don't want to put the players in the position of feeling like they have to scramble off the field to avoid losing a big chunk of playing time for being hurt on a play.
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Yes. And also with just getting the wind knocked out of you.... Puts you down for a while struggling to breathe and soon totally ok and good to go. Nothing fake about it.
 

MNVCGUY said:
What about cramps? Those can legitimately make it so a player can't get off the field under their own power quickly and might cause a stoppage of play, however there isn't a long term issue and the player will tend to recover quickly.

Being done for the half would be pretty strong penalty for a player who is cramping up. Football is a violent game, there are lots of times where guys are in a lot of pain for short periods but are able to recover and aren't injured.

Yes it sucks when guys fake injuries but I really don't think it happens enough to put the officials in the position of having to decide if a player is faking it or not. And you definitely don't want to put the players in the position of feeling like they have to scramble off the field to avoid losing a big chunk of playing time for being hurt on a play.
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Or just getting the wind knocked out of you... you can be completely helpless on the field and recover just fine.

We see guys getting checked closely on the field all the time and they go back in.

Punishing them for checking someone closely or being careful would be completely ABSURD as far as player safety goes.

Player saftey > some Iowa crying about their slow ass offense being slowed down.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
No perfect answer to the issue. They could charge time-outs to the team in it's in the last 2 minutes of a half. They also should just stop stopping the clock on every first down and that that would make up for time lost to any injury.
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And if the team has no time outs remaining, which would be a likely reason to do it in the first place?
 



As many have said or hinted at: it's dirty as hell, it seems fairly obvious when it happens, but there doesn't seem to be a way to combat it.
 
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I don't see any way to accurately determine, in real time, what is legitimate and what is play-acting. There are way too many variables and legitimate "temporary" injuries like cramping. And when you start punishing players for getting injured just because you think they may be faking or forcing them to get off the field in a set amount of time, you enter a world of liability issues when a truly injured player gets even more injured due to a new rule.

The only deterrent I can think of would be to have some sort of review process after the game. Then you could hold out players for subsequent games and/or punish coaches if it is determined that the injury was most likely faked. We have seen examples of players looking to the sideline and then collapsing in a heap for no apparent reason. Those should be punished. But if you try to do it during the game it becomes a logistical nightmare. Punishment in the future won't help the game being played but it would make coaches and player evaluate if it's worth faking an injury for a free time out if it means risking future game eligibility.

Even that is far from perfect. Unfortunately, I think this is one case of "gamesmanship" that may just have to be lived with.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
No perfect answer to the issue. They could charge time-outs to the team in it's in the last 2 minutes of a half. They also should just stop stopping the clock on every first down and that that would make up for time lost to any injury.
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I think the clock rule as they have it is fine. Not like the old days when a first down used to stop the clock until the next play was run. Now it just stops the clock until the ball is set.

But do agree there really isn't a great answer to this issue. We all know it happens sometimes but trying to figure out when a player is actually hurt vs. when they are faking being injured to slow the pace of the offense would be next to impossible in most cases.
 

HopHead said:
I don't see any way to accurately determine, in real time, what is legitimate and what is play-acting. There are way too many variables and legitimate "temporary" injuries like cramping. And when you start punishing players for getting injured just because you think they may be faking or forcing them to get off the field in a set amount of time, you enter a world of liability issues when a truly injured player gets even more injured due to a new rule.

The only deterrent I can think of would be to have some sort of review process after the game. Then you could hold out players for subsequent games and/or punish coaches if it is determined that the injury was most likely faked. We have seen examples of players looking to the sideline and then collapsing in a heap for no apparent reason. Those should be punished. But if you try to do it during the game it becomes a logistical nightmare. Punishment in the future won't help the game being played but it would make coaches and player evaluate if it's worth faking an injury for a free time out if it means risking future game eligibility.

Even that is far from perfect. Unfortunately, I think this is one case of "gamesmanship" that may just have to be lived with.
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Yeah, reviewing injuries after the fact to determine if the player was faking or not would open up a whole new can of worms that I don't think anyone wants to deal with.

If offenses are going to run this insane tempo that some teams try to run, you are going to have defenses doing things like faking or exaggerating an injury to give themselves a chance to catch their breath.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I think the clock rule as they have it is fine. Not like the old days when a first down used to stop the clock until the next play was run. Now it just stops the clock until the ball is set.

But do agree there really isn't a great answer to this issue. We all know it happens sometimes but trying to figure out when a player is actually hurt vs. when they are faking being injured to slow the pace of the offense would be next to impossible in most cases.
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Heck coaches bitch about fake injuries at the HS level.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yeah, reviewing injuries after the fact to determine if the player was faking or not would open up a whole new can of worms that I don't think anyone wants to deal with.

If offenses are going to run this insane tempo that some teams try to run, you are going to have defenses doing things like faking or exaggerating an injury to give themselves a chance to catch their breath.
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Even after the game investigations is gonna open up a whole can of worms.

Teams are going to feel like they should report a guy as injured for "bilateral leg weakness" because they fear an investigation and think it might help show that he was injured .... but if you report a guy as injured a bunch or at all ... maybe impact draft stock ... or now you're encouraging / scrutinizing injury reports and ...

Man it's a mess.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Even after the game investigations is gonna open up a whole can of worms.

Teams are going to feel like they should report a guy as injured for "bilateral leg weakness" because they fear an investigation and think it might help show that he was injured .... but if you report a guy as injured a bunch or at all ... maybe impact draft stock ... or now you're encouraging / scrutinizing injury reports and ...

Man it's a mess.
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And I seriously wonder just how big an issue this really is. Clearly it happens, but does it happen enough to really warrant a rule change of some kind to try and stop it?

I mean we don't run a high speed attack like Iowa where teams are falling all over themselves faking injuries to slow down their juggernaut of an offense so really don't have a good sense for how often "fake" injuries happen against those teams that go at hyperspeed.

Personally I a can't stand those super speed offenses. I get wanting to go up tempo at times, but the frantic rush to the line to snap the ball in a few seconds all game isn't something I enjoy watching as a fan.
 

<sarcasm> Maybe they should make a rule that you cannot hike the ball until 5 seconds or less remains on the play clock. Just outlaw the hurry-up offense. That would work great for the Gophers. </sarcasm>

Like MNVCGUY said, if you are going to run a high-tempo offense, you may just have to live with these type of tactics. Teams are already "punished" (albeit very lightly) because the injured player, real or not, has to sit a play.
 

I will add that if someone's offense is so fragile that because someone on defense got hurt that they can't score because there was a break for an injured player ... that's the offense's problem and if ti costs them the game then maybe the better team won?

I get the concerns about gaming the system but maybe this is really just a situation where they're trying to rewrite the rules to cater to a particular type of offense an maybe that's kinda dumb.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Georgia did this a few times versus Alabama. The “injured” players were back and full speed within a few minutes. Pretty obvious, pretty blatant. Clutching at ankles, etc.

The rule should be if they are injured enough to call a stoppage in play, ie so injured they are unable to ambulate themselves to the sideline within 30-40 seconds, they’re done for the half. Truly injured players shouldn’t be going back out and aggravating problems anyway.
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I don’t know if I agree with half but until the next change of possession for sure. Half is a lot.

there are legitimate injuries you can get that cause you to miss 3-5 plays. If you get your wind knocked out in the first play of the game should you not be able to play again until the third quarter?
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I will add that if someone's offense is so fragile that because someone on defense got hurt that they can't score because there was a break for an injured player ... that's the offense's problem and if ti costs them the game then maybe the better team won?

I get the concerns about gaming the system but maybe this is really just a situation where they're trying to rewrite the rules to cater to a particular type of offense an maybe that's kinda dumb.
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You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth.

Football is inherently a slow and deliberate game. There are a lot of legitimate injuries, substitutions are made regularly, refs collaborate, and it takes time to spot the ball, move the chains etc. These are basic parts of the game, yet now we have teams determined to run their offense at a faster pace than the system was designed.

While faking injuries is regrettable, I just don't have sympathy for the offenses here. Like you said, if the momentum of the offense can so easily be brought down by a fake injury, then maybe they should think about a different offense. Because there can be real injury on literally any play which would do the same.

Besides, in the current day, there is probably a 0% chance that any rule change will be put in which would result in an injured player feeling pressured to stay in the game.
 

Some guy said:
I don’t know if I agree with half but until the next change of possession for sure. Half is a lot.

there are legitimate injuries you can get that cause you to miss 3-5 plays. If you get your wind knocked out in the first play of the game should you not be able to play again until the third quarter?
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The issue in my mind is the gaining of unearned timeouts, and it’s an integrity of the game issue similar to crooked or biased officials. I saw more faked injuries this season than ever before, and I probably watched fewer games this season than in the last twenty years.

I‘d argue there are now more instances of faked injuries than instances of minor issues like getting the wind knocked out of oneself. There just aren’t a lot of “minor injuries” where a) one cannot get off the field and b) can re-enter the game a few plays or minutes later no worse for wear without a trainer exam/shake down. Therefore, in my mind while it stinks for those players, the penalty has to be harsh enough to discourage the crime.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I will add that if someone's offense is so fragile that because someone on defense got hurt that they can't score because there was a break for an injured player ... that's the offense's problem and if ti costs them the game then maybe the better team won?

I get the concerns about gaming the system but maybe this is really just a situation where they're trying to rewrite the rules to cater to a particular type of offense an maybe that's kinda dumb.
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Every team outside of MN relies on tempo at least at times. That’s within the rules of the game. Re: the bolded if a defense can’t stop an offense without a single player then maybe they don’t have quality depth and don’t deserve to win.

I get some people call this gamesmanship, but I’d say it’s closer to cheating and against the spirit of the rules and the game.
 

Some guy said:
I don’t know if I agree with half but until the next change of possession for sure. Half is a lot.

there are legitimate injuries you can get that cause you to miss 3-5 plays. If you get your wind knocked out in the first play of the game should you not be able to play again until the third quarter?
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Maybe if a player appears to be injured bad enough to stop the game, they should sit out at least 2 minutes of the game clock. You might see mildly hurt players such it up and keep playing, and moderately injured players try to get off the field right away, so they can get back in the game asap.
 

WAGopher said:
Maybe if a player appears to be injured bad enough to stop the game, they should sit out at least 2 minutes of the game clock. You might see mildly hurt players such it up and keep playing, and moderately injured players try to get off the field right away, so they can get back in the game asap.
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Yeah. I think that’s harder to police than just they can’t come in until the next change of possession but that’s what I’m trying to get towards. A half is way too long IMO.
Not too long for a fake injury…too long for the unintended consequences of the rule
 

Pompous Elitist said:
The issue in my mind is the gaining of unearned timeouts, and it’s an integrity of the game issue similar to crooked or biased officials. I saw more faked injuries this season than ever before, and I probably watched fewer games this season than in the last twenty years.

I‘d argue there are now more instances of faked injuries than instances of minor issues like getting the wind knocked out of oneself. There just aren’t a lot of “minor injuries” where a) one cannot get off the field and b) can re-enter the game a few plays or minutes later no worse for wear without a trainer exam/shake down. Therefore, in my mind while it stinks for those players, the penalty has to be harsh enough to discourage the crime.
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I don’t disagree with you in the problem but the solution will not just impact fake injuries m, it will also impact real injuries

Teams literally coach guys with little injuries to get down so that they don’t get caught in a bad substitution or delay of game with an injured guy running off. Is that wrong? I don’t think that’s wrong. That guy can’t play the rest of the half? You get a delay of game because a guy got injured?


i 100% agree on the problem. But the solution has to be done in a way that doesn’t have fallout that hurts the game IMO
 

WAGopher said:
Maybe if a player appears to be injured bad enough to stop the game, they should sit out at least 2 minutes of the game clock. You might see mildly hurt players such it up and keep playing, and moderately injured players try to get off the field right away, so they can get back in the game asap.
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With an up tempo offense snapping the ball so quickly, more than likely the defense is going to either be playing with 10 guys or will get called for 12 men on the field as the injured guy either won't be able to get off the field in time or the replacement won't have time to get to his position.

Maybe the rule should be the umpire stands over the ball until the injured guy can get off the field on his own and a replacement can get on the field, like they do when an offense substitutes OR if the player can't get off the field and the clock is stopped that player now has to sit out the rest of the possession. Same rule should apply to an offensive player as well.
 

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