NCAA Tournament 2022-23

I wouldn't brush off the end of game antics as quickly as you. I have no idea of any back story between the two, but both of them have to take some responsibility for being ambassadors for growing the game exponentially like they have the chance to do.

Seeing it all had me wanting to see the Bird Magic national championship and see if there was anything like what we saw yesterday. They had a rivalry, but I don't remember any overt disrespect like yesterday. I'm not sure if either of them appreciated in their youth how important they were in rescuing the NBA, but their talent and rivalry saved a nearly dying league. These two could easily replicate that if they play their cards right. Can't wait to see them on a national team together soon.
I'm going to die on the hill of sportsmanship. It should never go out of style, and I hope it stages a revival as time goes by. Maybe this will leave enough of a bad taste in people's mouths. These women are old enough that they should know better.

"This was for the girls that look like me." I'm going to go full 'get off my lawn' by further saying that we don't have to relitigate segregation and persecution on the basketball court. In fact, the field of competition has been the great societal mixer since our sports were integrated, and statements like that only serve to take us backward. It might sound like justice to some, but to me it sounds like going backward.
 

Maybe Jill and Joe are the type of people who respect what both teams accomplished and
inviting Iowa is a way of showing that respect. What's wrong with that. I don't think Jill Biden
is a Women's B-Ball fanatic and maybe tyring to honor both teams. This takes nothing away from LSU as the National Champion and being rememberd as that.

Hope to see our Gophers in the Tournament next year!
It was a stupid thing to say/offer. Does SDSU get an invite?
 

More than a few of the people involved in the Iowa/LSU fiasco would do well to remember the words of the old North Stars radio guy. To wit: "When you lose say little, when you win say less"
 


I agree that Reese went on much longer. That was anti-social that I think the emotions of the game and pecking order instincts came into that.

At the same time, I don't at all believe you when you say you've watched every single Iowa WBB game game for over 2 years and CC is not the villain people are making her out to be. First, what do you mean by that?

You must be new to this forum because for the past several months we have been talking again and again about the behavior of Clark again and again.

A phrase that has been used here is that Clark should be more like Sue Bird and less like Diana Taurasi.

Its sounds like you are an Iowa fan.

And plus all these other lessor incidents with Clark. Earlier this season. Isabelle Gradwell went up and made a clean block on a Caitlin Clark layup. Clark fell to the ground in dramatic fashion and squacked for a foul that was not deserved. She then got a foul call that did not exist. Over and over she's a classless entitled prima dona.

Yet Gradwell unfairly got the foul call because of Clark the tantrum.


Gradwell received unjust foul after Clark tantrum and never received credit in the stats for blocking Clark.
View attachment 24937




Again and again that kind of behavior from Clark.



Over and over and over Clark is tantrum throwing, disrespectful, rude.
So you are showing ONE PLAY over her 100 game college career to prove your point?
CC is aggressive, cocky and entertaining. She will then compliment the other teams, during the post-game interviews. CC also stays after games to sign autographs, take selfies with kids, etc. This also happens at away games.
Please compare CC's postgame comments (pretty much any game) to Reese's comments.
 


. . .
What about when Clark dismissed the South Carolina player at the top of the key....literally waving her hand at her/dismissing her?? Was that classless?
During versus after the game is a critical difference, which the above argument completely misses. Leaving the LSU player wide open and daring her to shoot is certainly not respecting her ability to make the three, and Clark waiving her hand is accentuating the point, perhaps trying to get in her head so she won't take or make the shot. All with the aim of trying to win the game while the game is being played. LSU can win the issue by making the shot. That’s basketball, during the game. Bad shooters are left open, and dared to shoot, both with space and words.

Once the horn sounds, following an opposing player around is quite different, and risking a brawl. Reese would't be facing the backlash she is if she had only taunted Clark along the free throw lane, during the game, which Clark should expect and take given what Clark dishes out. The Washington Post seems to get the significance of the end of game, even if the author can't bring herself to criticize Reese.

"With her team’s title in its grasp, Reese stared directly at Clark and waved her hand in front of her face — the “you can’t see me” gesture popularized by wrestler John Cena. Then, as the seconds ticked away to the celebration, Reese turned full heel. She briefly tracked her foe around the court and pointed at her ring finger — because hers, and not Clark’s, will soon be adorned with a championship bauble. . . .

When the two players are at the free throw line and Reese does the iconic insult, that single image is propped up as Exhibit A for her defense. However, the other video of Reese, who went out of her way to follow Clark and push the limits of acceptable trash talk and taunting, is not as defensible."

 

And one more for Clark, a big one. Well deserved.

 

Why is this big nothing burger being blown out of proportion? Is it because it's Women's sports?

Different sport, but remember this? (Start at about 1:31)

Taunting happens all the time. Clark taunted, she got payback!

Only thing I'd add is I guess LSU "hates Iowa"

On to spring sports (for Women)...
 
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More than a few of the people involved in the Iowa/LSU fiasco would do well to remember the words of the old North Stars radio guy. To wit: "When you lose say little, when you win say less"
That is the best way to go.

The best way to silence a trash talker is to beat them. That's what happened, and it should have stopped there. Oh well.
 



Why is this big nothing burger being blown out of proportion? Is it because it's Women's sports?

Different sport, but remember this? (Start at about 1:31)

Taunting happens all the time. Clark taunted, she got payback!

Only thing I'd add is I guess LSU "hates Iowa"

On to spring sports (for Women)...
I'm not seeing the connection. I'm thinking if there was a history of dirty play and cheap shots like the Sue pulled, I would wholly support the team defending their player. I don't see the verbal taunting as a response to dirty play, just a horrible display of sportsmanship (on both sides) that soils the game and doesn't help draw people to it.
 

During versus after the game is a critical difference, which the above argument completely misses. Leaving the LSU player wide open and daring her to shoot is certainly not respecting her ability to make the three, and Clark waiving her hand is accentuating the point, perhaps trying to get in her head so she won't take or make the shot. All with the aim of trying to win the game while the game is being played. LSU can win the issue by making the shot. That’s basketball, during the game. Bad shooters are left open, and dared to shoot, both with space and words.

Once the horn sounds, following an opposing player around is quite different, and risking a brawl. Reese would't be facing the backlash she is if she had only taunted Clark along the free throw lane, during the game, which Clark should expect and take given what Clark dishes out. The Washington Post seems to get the significance of the end of game, even if the author can't bring herself to criticize Reese.

"With her team’s title in its grasp, Reese stared directly at Clark and waved her hand in front of her face — the “you can’t see me” gesture popularized by wrestler John Cena. Then, as the seconds ticked away to the celebration, Reese turned full heel. She briefly tracked her foe around the court and pointed at her ring finger — because hers, and not Clark’s, will soon be adorned with a championship bauble. . . .

When the two players are at the free throw line and Reese does the iconic insult, that single image is propped up as Exhibit A for her defense. However, the other video of Reese, who went out of her way to follow Clark and push the limits of acceptable trash talk and taunting, is not as defensible."

I'm hoping the WNBA doesn't tolerate this kind of disrespect to other players. I believe we need to acknowledge our opponents with good sportsmanship and remember that whether we win or lose, we make each other better. The WNBA seems to be working for equality for everyone.
 

I'm not seeing the connection. I'm thinking if there was a history of dirty play and cheap shots like the Sue pulled, I would wholly support the team defending their player. I don't see the verbal taunting as a response to dirty play, just a horrible display of sportsmanship (on both sides) that soils the game and doesn't help draw people to it.
The only difference is it often comes to blows on the men's side. Evidenced in the attached video. Both players trash talked. One player won. Hence the ring finger gesture (and mocking) in addition to Clark/ Cena's "you can't see me" gesture.

Not a fan of trash talking, but still think the whole thing is grossly overblown. Also not surprised to see trash talking as Women's basketball continues to evolve.

If trash talking keeps fans away, they may have to switch to chess tournaments.

Edit: The handshake line brawl happened post game as well obviously.
 
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I'm hoping the WNBA doesn't tolerate this kind of disrespect to other players. I believe we need to acknowledge our opponents with good sportsmanship and remember that whether we win or lose, we make each other better. The WNBA seems to be working for equality for everyone.
Blame ESPN...

Caitlin Clark: The queen of clap backs

Seriously, WNBA is the pros. I am sure that trash talking occurs.
 



I'd say the entire controversy comes down to coaching. Clark like Larry Bird uses trash talking to fuel her. She is a hot dog. As a coach, what do you tolerate? Where do you draw the line? It is part of Clark's game. Clark is a generational talent. With the transfer portal...how much do coaches dare to be teachers/leaders? Clark makes more money with NIL than her coach...$millions. It's complicated.
Mulkey had no control over her players. They all make huge NIL dollars and she's aware they can transfer if she restricts their freedom of expression. Her players were purchased. Mulkey was purchased.
NIL and the transfer portal is why the coaches have lost control.
 

ESPN-related news:






""I don't think Angel [Reese] should be criticized at all," said [Caitlin] Clark, who had made the same gesture in the regional final. "I'm just one that competes, and she competed. I think everybody knew there was going to be a little trash talk in the entire tournament. It's not just me and Angel.

"We're all competitive. We all show our emotions in a different way. You know, Angel is a tremendous, tremendous player. I have nothing but respect for her. I love her game -- the way she rebounds the ball, scores the ball, is absolutely incredible. I'm a big fan of her and even the entire LSU team. They played an amazing game."

President Joe Biden tweeted that he's looking forward to welcoming LSU to the White House and did not mention Iowa.

"That's for LSU," Clark told "SportsCenter" on Tuesday. "... They should enjoy every single second of being the champion. I think that's theirs to do.

"I don't think runner-ups usually go to the White House. LSU should enjoy that moment for them. And congratulations, obviously; they deserve to go there. Maybe I could go to the White House [someday] on different terms.""


 

In other tournament news, UMD made the DII championship game and fell to Ashland.


 



Angel Reese: "She [Jill Biden] wants to come out and apologize, but at the same time I don't accept that. I'm not going to lie to you, I don't accept the apology. Because you said what you said."

Interviewer: "Jill Biden?"

Angel Reese: "Yea. The wife. I said what I said. And like you can't go back on certain things that you say. You felt they should have came because of 'sportsmanship,' right? They can have that spotlight. We'll go to the Obamas. We'll see Michelle. We'll see Barack."

Interviewer: "Hold on. Did you guys speak to the first lady?"

Angel Reese: "No. Apparently she was supposed to come to our locker room before the game but we said 'no.'

Interviewer: "Before the game?"

Angel Reese: "Yes. She was supposed to go to our locker room and go to Iowa's locker room. I don't know if she talked to them. I don't know if she did. But we said we didn't want her coming to our locker room."

Interviewer: "Why?"

Angel Reese: "I think Joe Biden had put somebody else to win a national championship. He didn't even put us on his bracket to get out of Baton Rouge."






Obama's bracket:

Obama had LSU making the Elite 8 and losing to Indiana. He had South Carolina winning it all.

1680696693588.png



Biden's bracket:


Biden had LSU missing the Sweet 16 by a loss to Michigan. He had Villanova winning it all.
1680697053310.png
 
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I had nothing bad to say about her prior to this.......but now she's just being petty and is backing up all the people who have been saying negative things about her.

They didn't want Biden in the locker-room BEFORE the game because of her bracket? Gimme a break. Not many had LSU winning it all......

She's upset that Biden invited Iowa to the White House? I get it. But IIRC, it was because of what a great game it was and what the tournament had done for women's basketball. It had nothing to do with "sportmanship" like Reece says.

She's trying way too hard to make this a story.

Not a Clark fan at all, but I do appreciate her interview with Jeremy Schaap. Her answers:
1. Runners-up shouldn't go to the White House.
2. Had no issue with anything Reese did, and acknowledged trash talking is everywhere.
 




ESPN-related news:






""I don't think Angel [Reese] should be criticized at all," said [Caitlin] Clark, who had made the same gesture in the regional final. "I'm just one that competes, and she competed. I think everybody knew there was going to be a little trash talk in the entire tournament. It's not just me and Angel.

"We're all competitive. We all show our emotions in a different way. You know, Angel is a tremendous, tremendous player. I have nothing but respect for her. I love her game -- the way she rebounds the ball, scores the ball, is absolutely incredible. I'm a big fan of her and even the entire LSU team. They played an amazing game."

President Joe Biden tweeted that he's looking forward to welcoming LSU to the White House and did not mention Iowa.

"That's for LSU," Clark told "SportsCenter" on Tuesday. "... They should enjoy every single second of being the champion. I think that's theirs to do.

"I don't think runner-ups usually go to the White House. LSU should enjoy that moment for them. And congratulations, obviously; they deserve to go there. Maybe I could go to the White House [someday] on different terms.""


Yes. What you posted.

Caitlin Clark defends Angel Reese, says she shouldn’t be ‘criticized’ for gesture directed towards her
 

I had nothing bad to say about her prior to this.......but now she's just being petty and is backing up all the people who have been saying negative things about her.

They didn't want Biden in the locker-room BEFORE the game because of her bracket? Gimme a break. Not many had LSU winning it all......

She's upset that Biden invited Iowa to the White House? I get it. But IIRC, it was because of what a great game it was and what the tournament had done for women's basketball. It had nothing to do with "sportmanship" like Reece says.

She's trying way too hard to make this a story.

Not a Clark fan at all, but I do appreciate her interview with Jeremy Schaap. Her answers:
1. Runners-up shouldn't go to the White House.
2. Had no issue with anything Reese did, and acknowledged trash talking is everywhere.
I get and respect your point, but there is an ocean of difference between the treatment of the two. Clark was/ is actually praised for her trash talking. Reese is vilified.

Glad the puck drops tomorrow...
 

I have been hard on CC for some time, and I still believe that some of her in game antics are over the top. But her handling of the post game controversies has been exemplary. As for Reese, it’s time for her to tone it down a bit. All she is doing is making herself look petty and spiteful. Hate to think of her behavior if they had lost.
 

I get and respect your point, but there is an ocean of difference between the treatment of the two. Clark was/ is actually praised for her trash talking. Reese is vilified.

Glad the puck drops tomorrow...
I have disliked CC for 2 years now with all of her complaining and showboating on the court so don't include me in the treatment difference. Only difference between now and before is I now dislike Reese too.

CC is actually handling the more difficult task of losing gracefully than Reese's handling of winning gracefully. This is probably because of CC wanting to hang onto and gaining NIL deals. CC has shown me enough of her poor sportsmanship that I don't think her conciliatory words are for any other reason than her NIL self interest. Reese should do the same if she wants to gain ground rather than dig herself a deeper hole.
 

I have disliked CC for 2 years now with all of her complaining and showboating on the court so don't include me in the treatment difference. Only difference between now and before is I now dislike Reese too.

CC is actually handling the more difficult task of losing gracefully than Reese's handling of winning gracefully. This is probably because of CC wanting to hang onto and gaining NIL deals. CC has shown me enough of her poor sportsmanship that I don't think her conciliatory words are for any other reason than her NIL self interest. Reese should do the same if she wants to gain ground rather than dig herself a deeper hole.
First of all, I am not sure why this is being taken personally. All of my points have been toward coverage of multiple incidents.

Second, my point was and is that Clark was and is being treated differently by the media. Reese was put on defense from the start. Hopefully someone close to her will help her understand that life isnt always even or fair and that it is best to move on.

Both are young. Both trash talked. Nobody died. Past time to move on.
 

I have disliked CC for 2 years now with all of her complaining and showboating on the court so don't include me in the treatment difference. Only difference between now and before is I now dislike Reese too.

CC is actually handling the more difficult task of losing gracefully than Reese's handling of winning gracefully. This is probably because of CC wanting to hang onto and gaining NIL deals. CC has shown me enough of her poor sportsmanship that I don't think her conciliatory words are for any other reason than her NIL self interest. Reese should do the same if she wants to gain ground rather than dig herself a deeper hole.
 


Not sure Reusse is basing that on numbers. I would want to see numbers. I am curious what numbers he is basing that on.

With Reese she has repositioned her name, image, likeness in the market. That is a key term: repositioned. She may reap a huge windfall in that position. Her social media followers have skyrocketed.

There are different market segments. Each segment has a different appeal.

 

I'm hoping the WNBA doesn't tolerate this kind of disrespect to other players. I believe we need to acknowledge our opponents with good sportsmanship and remember that whether we win or lose, we make each other better. The WNBA seems to be working for equality for everyone.
Have you watched many WBNA games ? I ask because the officials are about the same quality we saw @ the FF= not good. This results in the usual drama queens like Taurasi, Parker n others reacting to every whistle. Overall, because there are only 144 players the quality is excellent and they don’t spend much energy taunting each other.
 

Angel Reese responding to Jill Biden invitation to Iowa and LSU: “I don’t accept the apology because you said what you said … You can’t go back on certain things that you say … They can have that spotlight,” said Reese. “We’ll go to the Obamas. We’ll go see Michelle. We’ll see Barack.”


 




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