NCAA makes stiff accusations against Memphis

[ColNathanJessup]

I find it interesting that "you stay away from large generalities" but spend 3 pages worth of posts because all of society (apparently represented by 100 people on a Gopher chat board) has found Calipari guilty before having a chance to present his case for complete and total innocence.

Personally, I tend to agree with most of your thoughts on Cal. I don't know if he cheats or doesn't but there's absolutely no question in my mind that he pushes the envelope as far as he possibly can and is very good at it. He associates with people that are not beyond bending the rules. He's, in my opinion the Teflon Don of college basketball.

 

[The Truth]

It's not rumor mongering when you know it as virtual fact. (My source on this is very close to the UK program.)

What I'm trying to say is be careful what you spread. It's not fair to people when they don't have a forum to respond to charges or allegations. I could talk about some instances that happened at UK under both Tubby and Pitino that were never reported (and some that were) that people would view in a bad light but I choose not to because it does nobody any good.

Gillispie is pretty much a loser in the highest sense of the word and if he would have won at UK he would have been revered.

Agree with the first part and he wasn't going to win anything the way he treated his players, the staff, the adminstration, boosters and the media. He had a full scale player mutiny on his hand by the end and like Matt Doherty he wasn't going to survive that. If it were just about W/L's he'd still be the coach at UK.

They are a win at all costs and the way Tubby was treated on his way out (and I'll never say he was 100% criticism free with on-court issues) was pretty sad. In exchange they would back a bottom of the barrel person like Billie Bob.

Tubby chose to leave. He wasn't fired and he chose to resign. I've made it clear that with changes in his staff, a refocus on recruiting (which he's done a great job of at Minnesota with adding guys like Vince Taylor and Jirsa) and bringing in Patterson and Jai Lucas he could have turned things around in the short term at least. I've said all along that Tubby's problems at UK were real but correctable but this discussion just leads down a road that does no one any good and has been rehashed over and over again.

I will agree that not everone likes Tubby when he is coaching. The player I referenced above told me he pretty much hated Tubby when he played for him. Now looking back though he knows Tubby pretty much had his best interests in mind. (Although I still don't think there is a lot of love lost there.) He does, however, respect Tubby.

I think this is true of any coach.

I don't know for a fact, but I would doubt that any of Gillispie's players, Patterson included, who will look back and say they respect Gillispie.

Some will and some won't but again that's true of any coach. I know I don't have any respect for the man just a tremendous amount of sorrow for what he put the players through and the way he threw away a great opportunity because of his character flaws and shortcomings..

 

[The Truth]

I find it interesting that "you stay away from large generalities" but spend 3 pages worth of posts because all of society (apparently represented by 100 people on a Gopher chat board) has found Calipari guilty before having a chance to present his case for complete and total innocence.

Personally, I tend to agree with most of your thoughts on Cal. I don't know if he cheats or doesn't but there's absolutely no question in my mind that he pushes the envelope as far as he possibly can and is very good at it. He associates with people that are not beyond bending the rules. He's, in my opinion the Teflon Don of college basketball.

This discussion is interesting to me because it's about just more than Calipari or UK or Memphis or Derrick Rose and brings up wider issues in regards to the game and the state of it today that make for good fodder.

What I hope my posts do is generate a good, intelligent, healthy debate where we can be free to bring up opinions and discuss these issues without fear of it turning into ad hominem attacks or flame wars.

 

[The Truth]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basket..._evbYF?slug=dw-rose060109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

An outstanding new piece by Wetzel.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

What I'm trying to say is be careful what you spread. It's not fair to people when they don't have a forum to respond to charges or allegations. I could talk about some instances that happened at UK under both Tubby and Pitino that were never reported (and some that were) that people would view in a bad light but I choose not to because it does nobody any good.

Agree with the first part and he wasn't going to win anything the way he treated his players, the staff, the adminstration, boosters and the media. He had a full scale player mutiny on his hand by the end and like Matt Doherty he wasn't going to survive that. If it were just about W/L's he'd still be the coach at UK.

Tubby chose to leave. He wasn't fired and he chose to resign. I've made it clear that with changes in his staff, a refocus on recruiting (which he's done a great job of at Minnesota with adding guys like Vince Taylor and Jirsa) and bringing in Patterson and Jai Lucas he could have turned things around in the short term at least. I've said all along that Tubby's problems at UK were real but correctable but this discussion just leads down a road that does no one any good and has been rehashed over and over again.

I think this is true of any coach.

Some will and some won't but again that's true of any coach. I know I don't have any respect for the man just a tremendous amount of sorrow for what he put the players through and the way he threw away a great opportunity because of his character flaws and shortcomings..

Gillispie was 40-27 at UK, hardly the right W-L record to keep your job at Kentucky.

Tubby had the good sense to leave UK. His UK staff won 77% of their games (131-40) and signed the #1 class in 2004, Top 15 class in 2006, and was set to land Top 10 class in 2007.

Gillispie was a bum from Day 1.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basket..._evbYF?slug=dw-rose060109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

An outstanding new piece by Wetzel.

WTF does this have to do with Minnesota?

 

[melbo]

to Truth

This discussion is interesting to me because it's about just more than Calipari or UK or Memphis or Derrick Rose and brings up wider issues in regards to the game and the state of it today that make for good fodder.

What I hope my posts do is generate a good, intelligent, healthy debate where we can be free to bring up opinions and discuss these issues without fear of it turning into ad hominem attacks or flame wars.

Truth, I for one want to say keep up the intelligent,healthy debatable topics. I find the issues you bring up and your opinions well backed up. I learn alot by reading these threads and find many topics indeed good fodder. By the way, I believe fot owes you an apology about the Saul Smith job interview.

 

[ColNathanJessup]

What I'm trying to say is be careful what you spread. It's not fair to people when they don't have a forum to respond to charges or allegations. I could talk about some instances that happened at UK under both Tubby and Pitino that were never reported (and some that were) that people would view in a bad light but I choose not to because it does nobody any good.


Agree with the first part and he wasn't going to win anything the way he treated his players, the staff, the adminstration, boosters and the media. He had a full scale player mutiny on his hand by the end and like Matt Doherty he wasn't going to survive that. If it were just about W/L's he'd still be the coach at UK.

I know I don't have any respect for the man just a tremendous amount of sorrow for what he put the players through
.

You can't be serious? You haven't posted any allegations that "the people" couldn't respond too? Ha, laughable. This would be a pretty slow internet if that were the determining factor. I wouldn't post it if I didn't know if for almost fact. Unfortunately, until we elect you as morality police officer, I guess we won't all be held the the highest standard of ethics that you've chosen for yourself as it relates to passing along info on the internets.

As for your lack of respect for Gillispie and his treatment of players, I thought you just told me in another post that some players could handle it (Patterson) and some just couldn't. You know, he was from the Bobby Knight school! Again, laughable. Like I said, vick's dogs were treated better than his players and now you are seemingly agreeing.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Truth, I for one want to say keep up the intelligent,healthy debatable topics. I find the issues you bring up and your opinions well backed up. I learn alot by reading these threads and find many topics indeed good fodder. By the way, I believe fot owes you an apology about the Saul Smith job interview.

I do not. The Truth inferred that the interview occurred while Saul was Gopher assistant, the inference being that Saul is only good enough to be an assistant for Dad (no one else).

Of course that's CRAP. Saul was a very successful assistant for 3 years at Tennessee Tech before coming to Minnesota.

 

[The Truth]

Truth, I for one want to say keep up the intelligent,healthy debatable topics. I find the issues you bring up and your opinions well backed up. I learn alot by reading these threads and find many topics indeed good fodder. By the way, I believe fot owes you an apology about the Saul Smith job interview.

I appreciate that. I enjoy most all of the posters here and love to discuss CBB. It's nice to do it here because it's an outside perspective which I find refreshing.

You can't be serious? You haven't posted any allegations that "the people" couldn't respond too? Ha, laughable. This would be a pretty slow internet if that were the determining factor. I wouldn't post it if I didn't know if for almost fact. Unfortunately, until we elect you as morality police officer, I guess we won't all be held the the highest standard of ethics that you've chosen for yourself as it relates to passing along info on the internets.

It's just a personal choice. How would you feel if someone was posting the intimate details of your personal life on a message board? I think what Gillispie did to his players and his behavior in regards to the job are fair game because he's a public figure but there is a line-at least for me. What I generally do, when I post something, is think to myself "If I were in a room with this person would I say it to their face?"

As for your lack of respect for Gillispie and his treatment of players, I thought you just told me in another post that some players could handle it (Patterson) and some just couldn't. You know, he was from the Bobby Knight school! Again, laughable. Like I said, vick's dogs were treated better than his players and now you are seemingly agreeing.

Some players could handle the level of criticism and the harshness of it because they could tune it out and just play. Others, who have a different sort of makeup, could not. I should also note that Gillispie didn't treat Patterson the same way he treated Ramon Harris or Perry Stevenson or Jodie Meeks. That doesn't excuse the actions themselves. There are guys who will still run through a brick wall for Bobby Knight and defend his methods and others who despise him for it. I'm pretty confident in saying the same about Gillispie. In any case, the toll on team morale under Gillispie was telling and 100% his fault. This, coupled with other incidents and actions, was the reason for his dismissal.

 

[The Truth]

I do not. The Truth inferred that the interview occurred while Saul was Gopher assistant, the inference being that Saul is only good enough to be an assistant for Dad (no one else).

Of course that's CRAP. Saul was a very successful assistant for 3 years at Tennessee Tech before coming to Minnesota.

If you hadn't noticed by now I've been ignoring you until you apologize for the horrible things you said about me and my family but I feel the need to comment on this because it's just another one of your blatant falsehoods and misleading statements.

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showpost.php?p=58877&postcount=27

Saul interviewed with Calipari for a position (a favor for his father is what I was told) and Calipari almost hired him but couldn't because the position required a more experienced recruiter and Saul didn't have the connections.

That's what I posted and followed it up with this after you called me a liar and host of other unflattering things:

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showpost.php?p=59258&postcount=34

I stand by my source and this had nothing to do with the an opening on Calipari's staff at UK. Amazing that was the first conclusion FoT jumped to. Evidently, Saul Smith was born with connections all over this country and didn't need any seasoning on the recruiting trail (like he got at TT with Coach Sutton) at all.

All of this can be found in this thread http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showthread.php?p=59258#post59258 including FoT's "rebuttals" towards me.

I think if you read some of his bile towards me you'll understand why I'm upset at some of his actions on this board towards me over a difference of opinion and why I will continue to ignore him in the future until he issues that apology.

 

[Boondoggle]

Okay, the article out of Columbus came at a pretty good time. It makes me wonder if Memphis could have used FERPA to cover up all of these violations, or if nothing can be done. I mean, if Florida was able to use FERPA to cover up cheating on tests and grades, why wasn't Memphis able to do the same?

 

[howeda7]

Okay, the article out of Columbus came at a pretty good time. It makes me wonder if Memphis could have used FERPA to cover up all of these violations, or if nothing can be done. I mean, if Florida was able to use FERPA to cover up cheating on tests and grades, why wasn't Memphis able to do the same?

What article are you referencing and how is Florida involved in these accusations?

 

[Boondoggle]

What article are you referencing and how is Florida involved in these accusations?

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/05/31/FERPA_MAIN.ART_ART_05-31-09_A1_VFE0G7F.html?sid=101

This article is a pretty good read. But to answer your question, it's not that Florida was involved in the Memphis scandal, it just appears that they had some violations but were able to cover them up with a little help from this federal law.

 

[howeda7]

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/05/31/FERPA_MAIN.ART_ART_05-31-09_A1_VFE0G7F.html?sid=101

This article is a pretty good read. But to answer your question, it's not that Florida was involved in the Memphis scandal, it just appears that they had some violations but were able to cover them up with a little help from this federal law.

That's fine. But you're implying they had some new violations that never came to light, the article does not seem to indicate that. It could well be that they were blacking out information on past violations under Norm Sloan, etc. when that information was requested.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

If you hadn't noticed by now I've been ignoring you until you apologize for the horrible things you said about me and my family but I feel the need to comment on this because it's just another one of your blatant falsehoods and misleading statements.

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showpost.php?p=58877&postcount=27

That's what I posted and followed it up with this after you called me a liar and host of other unflattering things:

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showpost.php?p=59258&postcount=34



All of this can be found in this thread http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showthread.php?p=59258#post59258 including FoT's "rebuttals" towards me.

I think if you read some of his bile towards me you'll understand why I'm upset at some of his actions on this board towards me over a difference of opinion and why I will continue to ignore him in the future until he issues that apology.

When you admit that Tubby Smith and HIS family are fine people AND basketball coaches...

Saul Smith had 4 successful years playing at UK. 27-8 average record. 1 NCAA and 3 SEC titles plus 3 SECT champions. 2 years playing PG in NBDL. Graduate assistant coach at UK for 1 year. Now 5 solid years as Div I assistant coach.

And yet, somehow, he's not quite good enough. BS!!!

 

[WanderingGopher]

Personally, I tend to agree with most of your thoughts on Cal. I don't know if he cheats or doesn't but there's absolutely no question in my mind that he pushes the envelope as far as he possibly can and is very good at it. He associates with people that are not beyond bending the rules. He's, in my opinion the Teflon Don of college basketball.

Exactly. And that's how cheating occurs nowadays. Few major coaches are dumb enough to cheat outright. They let others do it for them, or join "win at all cost" programs where they know "things will get done," and they just ensure they have plausible deniability if the program is caught. And "pushing the envelope" includes recruiting good players whom others have backed off of due to concerns about academics, character, or whatever. As the saying goes, "when in doubt academically, go to the SEC."

 

[The-Real-Truth]

Why are you on this post?

I have been reading your posts for the last few days. I am not sure why you are on this board? Don't you have several highly educated people on KY board to discuss basketball? I am sure that can find many of your likes. If you are here to continue on Tubby-bashing, it is getting old. Move on. You have other things to be worried about. This is not Ky or Tubby board. This is Gopher board. I like to hear more about our own basketball program that Uk's. Please move on and let us enjoy what we have.

Thanks.

 

[The-Real-Truth]

I am writing to The Truth

Sorry, I forgot to mention the person whom I was replying to. I do enjoy reading the Friend-of-Tubby's posts.

 

[coolhandgopher]

Why should he go?

I don't always agree with what The Truth has to say, but he brings interesting points of view to this board that take a broad look at college basketball and the NCAA. Is a strong focus on Kentucky in what he has to discuss? Yes, due to the fact that he's a Kentucky basketball fan and also because Kentucky/Calipari have been the newsmakers in college basketball since the national championship game. I haven't seen anything inflammatory in his posts, so why shouldn't he be posting here? And I could care less whether he likes Tubby Smith or not. Perhaps he said less than flattering things when Tubby Smith first came on board here (I haven't seen anything lately that would be construed as negative), I can't recall and don't really care. I guarantee you there will be Gopher fans on here next season who are plenty negative if the Gophers don't finish in the Top 3 of the Big Ten and/or make it to the second weekend of the NCAA tournament.

I also find myself laughing when someone comes on the board and states that this board should be left to talking about the Gophers (someone with two total posts particularly). I just counted on the first page and there are 40 threads; 19 of these threads have a Gopher focus. This board is painfully slow in the offseason and for someone who loves to talk/think about college bb year round I wish we had more traffic, more discussion during the quiet months. If you want to talk Gophers, spark the conversation up. Personally, I enjoy the variety, I enjoy having a regular poster on the board who comes from a different perspective and background and I hope he continues to visit.

 

[MRJ]

In getting back to the subject here, I have heard that Rose's reported SAT score was in the 740-750 range. My question is this: How in the world can this be a qualifying score? Does anybody know the typical SAT range for an NCAA athlete? I know that transcripts also play an important role here, but leaving that out for a second, how many schools accept SAT scores this low?

If I were a fan of Memphis, I would be less concerned about the possibility of him cheating on his SAT and more that this kind of SAT can get me into school if I'm an athlete. I mean, don't you get a 500-600 or something just for filling out your name correctly?

I must admit, I wasn't expecting some kind of einstein-like performance. After all, this is Memphis we're talking about. But even under those circumstances, this seems like a stretch.

 

[coolhandgopher]

Actually the minimum score a student-athlete could score on the SAT is 400, combining the Math and Verbal/Critical Reasoning of the SAT. The "student" would have to obtain a core high school GPA of 3.55 or above to be eligible with that score. The SAT was reworked a few years ago and instead of two sections, now has three sections for a possible score of 2400 points (800 per section), but NCAA eligibility only looks at the two traditional sections. If Rose (or a stand-in for Rose) scored 750, they could have scored 400 out of 800 on Math and 350 of 800 in Verbal. In looking at the <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/sat/scores/understanding.html" target="blank" >college board website</a>, the national average for each section is about 500.

As for the urban legend about scoring a certain number of points just for writing your name correctly on the test, <a href="http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/sat.asp" target="blank" >snopes</a> proves that to be just a myth.

The entire score chart for the SAT and ACT/core h.s. courses is included in this <a href="http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/2008-09%20CBSA9c29e699-00f6-48ba-98a9-6456c9b98957.pdf" target="blank" >link</a>

As for Memphis' academic standards versus other schools, when it comes to NCAA eligibility, the test scores and course qualifications are the same. It's been a couple years since I've worked real closely with the standards, but I know the NCAA was looking to beef up the core course requirements to make things more standard across the D-1 landscape.

 

[The Truth]

In getting back to the subject here, I have heard that Rose's reported SAT score was in the 740-750 range. My question is this: How in the world can this be a qualifying score? Does anybody know the typical SAT range for an NCAA athlete? I know that transcripts also play an important role here, but leaving that out for a second, how many schools accept SAT scores this low?

If I were a fan of Memphis, I would be less concerned about the possibility of him cheating on his SAT and more that this kind of SAT can get me into school if I'm an athlete. I mean, don't you get a 500-600 or something just for filling out your name correctly?

I must admit, I wasn't expecting some kind of einstein-like performance. After all, this is Memphis we're talking about. But even under those circumstances, this seems like a stretch.

That article I linked by Wetzel talked about this very thing. This isn't just a Memphis or Rose issue but an issue of the system in place as a whole. How many athletes at the D-1 level would get into their respective schools based solely on their academic credentials? Even schools like Stanford or Duke, with outstanding academic reputations, have "slots" for basketball and football players every year that wouldn't normally be admitted if their prowess on the court or field didn't heavily outweigh what they did in the classroom. Sean Dockery was a student with a 2.3 GPA and a 15 on his ACT but was accepted into Duke. I've heard rumors that he was barely literate and needed Special Education tutors to even graduate high school.

Now one could argue that it's somewhat noble for an individual to be given the opportunity to get a College Education and the opportunities that brings because of his abilities as a basketball player but then you'd have to acknowledge that the system itself is not based on the criteria and ideals the NCAA claims that it is and the image of the "student-athlete" is a mirage constructed to justify the role big time athletics play on college campuses around the country.

 

[The Truth]

As the saying goes, "when in doubt academically, go to the SEC."

Sorry I missed this and didn't quote it in my other post but this is a notion that I hate because it somehow creates the impression that the SEC is the one responsible for this and it is solely a problem with that conference. The issue you raised is just as much a problem at Minnesota and the Big 10 as it is in the SEC or the ACC or any other conference at the D-1 level.

No school operating in basketball or football at this level is a bastion of academic integrity when it comes to admittance of athletes and haven't been for a very, very long time. Maybe a school like a Northwestern or a Vandy takes less chances on these types of players (and they should be applauded for it) but even they will bend that integrity to admit a borderline student if they think it well help them from time to time.

I think we should all be honest with ourselves and stop pointing fingers at each other by acknowledging the fact that this isn't about higher education. It's about success in the athletic venues when it comes to basketball and football.

 

[The-Real-Truth]

Why don't you go to UK website also?

I don't always agree with what The Truth has to say, but he brings interesting points of view to this board that take a broad look at college basketball and the NCAA. Is a strong focus on Kentucky in what he has to discuss? Yes, due to the fact that he's a Kentucky basketball fan and also because Kentucky/Calipari have been the newsmakers in college basketball since the national championship game. I haven't seen anything inflammatory in his posts, so why shouldn't he be posting here? And I could care less whether he likes Tubby Smith or not. Perhaps he said less than flattering things when Tubby Smith first came on board here (I haven't seen anything lately that would be construed as negative), I can't recall and don't really care. I guarantee you there will be Gopher fans on here next season who are plenty negative if the Gophers don't finish in the Top 3 of the Big Ten and/or make it to the second weekend of the NCAA tournament.

I also find myself laughing when someone comes on the board and states that this board should be left to talking about the Gophers (someone with two total posts particularly). I just counted on the first page and there are 40 threads; 19 of these threads have a Gopher focus. This board is painfully slow in the offseason and for someone who loves to talk/think about college bb year round I wish we had more traffic, more discussion during the quiet months. If you want to talk Gophers, spark the conversation up. Personally, I enjoy the variety, I enjoy having a regular poster on the board who comes from a different perspective and background and I hope he continues to visit.

The reason that I only have 2 posts here is because I just registered. I was tired of reading the Tubby-bashing posts from this UK guy from outside. Why is he here on this board? why isn't he posting on MSU board? I too like the variety but not from the haters with other agendas. When he says that 50% percent of people in UK disliked Tubby, I get really upset. Has gone to every door to get such a stat? Tubby went back last year to get a degree from UK. He had the loudest cheer. You tell me how this person comes up with that number. He has other agendas.

 

[The Truth]

I was tired of reading the Tubby-bashing posts from this UK guy from outside.

If you'd please show me these I'd love to read them. I understand the defensive nature of some of the posters on this issue but I think it's gotten to a point where I feel like everything I've ever posted on this board gets lumped into some grand conspiracy that I've created to hurt Minnesota basketball.

I have never started a thread on this board to talk about UK, Tubby or anything else with the exception of one where I wanted to illustrate how some Kentucky fans took things too far on the internet in terms of criticism.

Why is he here on this board?

Because I'm following Tubby's career post-UK, wishing him much success and the Minnesota boards on the Rivals and Scout networks are dead.

why isn't he posting on MSU board? I too like the variety but not from the haters with other agendas. When he says that 50% percent of people in UK disliked Tubby, I get really upset.

I actually posted on an MSU board once and got into an argument with former Kentucky player Bret Bearup over his handling of the Mike Miller situation at Florida.

Has gone to every door to get such a stat? Tubby went back last year to get a degree from UK. He had the loudest cheer. You tell me how this person comes up with that number. He has other agendas.

I don't know why this thread wants to turn into a Tubby debate or a UK fan debate unless you're offering supporting evidence on your position. Tubby's tenure became a divisive issue at the end. I'm pretty sure you had people on this board claiming that Dan Monson got a "raw deal" at one time. That's just people being people and when your emotionally invested in a subject we often forget or ignore our abilities to examine issues critically.

Even with that you'll still find people who were sorry to see Tubby go (and I was one of them) and you'll find people who disliked his coaching and recruiting but still respected the man for who he was and what he did for the community and the Commonwealth.

My only agenda is discussion. If you do not like what I have to post I suggest you ignore it and move on. If you do want to discuss things with me do so politely and intelligently and we'll have a nice, friendly debate. I won't always agree with you but I can assure you I'll take what you have to say into consideration. I am never opposed to being wrong or having my own views critically examined. Sometimes I'm even able to see something in a new light that I might have missed that causes me to reexamine.

 

[The-Real-Truth]

Because I'm following Tubby's career post-UK, wishing him much success and the Minnesota boards on the Rivals and Scout networks are dead.
How can you wish a coach success if you did not like him as a coach? He must have wasted your time by winning all of those games? Like I said, you find plenty of intelligent people on your own board. Stay there and read about Tubby on the paper or internet. We like Tubby as a coach a will try to keep him here for many years.

 

[Jim V2]

As for the urban legend about scoring a certain number of points just for writing your name correctly on the test, <a href="http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/sat.asp" target="blank" >snopes</a> proves that to be just a myth.

regardless of what snopes says (I didn't go to read it,) the point of that comment is that if you fill your name and address out carefully, they will mail results to you. As you noted, the minimum score is 400. Thus you get 400 points (not 500-600) just for filling out your name and address correctly.

 

[coolhandgopher]

I wasn't clear enough on my explanation of the score, Jim V2. I should have said, the lowest score a student can achieve on the SAT and be eligible for college athletics is 400. It is possible to score lower than 400 by getting more than 400 of the 800 questions wrong; however, if a student just fills out their name and address and doesn't fill out any of the score sheet, they will still score 200 on the test, because of the way college board scores the test (penalized for wrong answers, but not penalized for leaving answers blank).

 

[Jim V2]

Sorry I missed this and didn't quote it in my other post but this is a notion that I hate because it somehow creates the impression that the SEC is the one responsible for this and it is solely a problem with that conference. The issue you raised is just as much a problem at Minnesota and the Big 10 as it is in the SEC or the ACC or any other conference at the D-1 level.

No school operating in basketball or football at this level is a bastion of academic integrity when it comes to admittance of athletes and haven't been for a very, very long time. Maybe a school like a Northwestern or a Vandy takes less chances on these types of players (and they should be applauded for it) but even they will bend that integrity to admit a borderline student if they think it well help them from time to time.

QUOTE]

The quote isn't about integrity. As you note, every conference has issues there. The point of the quote is that some schools , including essentially all the Big Ten (except Wisconsin), have higher standards for athlete acceptance than the NCAA minimum. At Minnesota, for example, you can meet NCAA requiremetns but still not get accepted. I can't speak to how or whether those standards get bent, although I do know that the U allows a certain percentage of it's entrants to be below it's normally very tough general admission standards, both to give kids a chance and to facilitate the admission of athletes. Of course some athletes would also meet the first (higher) academic standards, but most would not. even so, there are some who meet the NCAA rules but who still cannot meet Minnesota's second threshold.

While I can't speak to every SEC school, my understanding is that the majority simply use the NCAA minimum as their threshold for admitting athletes.