NCAA makes stiff accusations against Memphis


Hey, hick, we get it. You don't care that UK hired a slimeball as their new hc, and you're going to spend your entire life defending him on every message board you can (pathetic beyond belief).

Everyone who has followed this scumbag over the years knows he cheats his ass off. He did at UMASS, then bolted before the program was crippled. Did the same at Memphis, and bolted before the program was about to be crippled. Now UK freaks are playing see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil because they want another title. Good for you. You're still pathetic.

Please, get the f*ck out of here and quit spamming this board with your rationalistic bullshit. Your team sold their soul, and did so knowingly. I hope the run at a title is worth it.
 

Hey, hick, we get it. You don't care that UK hired a slimeball as their new hc, and you're going to spend your entire life defending him on every message board you can (pathetic beyond belief).

Everyone who has followed this scumbag over the years knows he cheats his ass off. He did at UMASS, then bolted before the program was crippled. Did the same at Memphis, and bolted before the program was about to be crippled. Now UK freaks are playing see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil because they want another title. Good for you. You're still pathetic.

Please, get the f*ck out of here and quit spamming this board with your rationalistic bullshit. Your team sold their soul, and did so knowingly. I hope the run at a title is worth it.

Though I also find it slightly annoying that someone feels the need to defend every single thing Kentucky does on a MN board, I find it detestable to personally attack someone just for expressing their opinion.

The Truth makes rational points. They may be slightly biased, but you are absolutely in denial if you think this board is anywhere near bias-free.

Everyone is entitled their thoughts. Personally, I find it interesting and thought-provoking.

But, to be fair, I also find it very interesting and thought-provoking (read: hilarious and mildly hypocritical) when people personally berate others for expressing their beliefs on a situation that is as vague as it comes. I just like to steer clear of declaring someone a "hick" just because their "bullshit" is not in line with my line of thinking.

Just personal opinions here, though. Do what you like.
 

I'm sorry Johnny. I'll just nod my head and agree with whatever fantasy you have in your head.


ntia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem


Which is simpler: A person fails or underperforms in certain aspects of their job and performance suffers overall or a vast conspiracy designed, controlled and implemented to ensure one person's failure despite the fact that person's success is directly tied into an overall greater success or image that those within said conspiracy crave?

I was tracking ya until you proposed this whole "vast conspiracy" line. Calipari is hardly a victim of anything. He has made his choices and his players have made theirs over the year. But to suggest that Calipari is some kind of victim is stretching a bit. Most victims I know don't sign multi-million dollar deals with programs like Kentucky and recruit five-star recruit after five-star recruit wherever they go.

I'm not suggesting that anything you have said is false or that Calipari is indeed guilty in this case. But the fact remains that there has been questions and rumors about him on more than one occasion. Does that mean he's guilty? Of course not. But just because there are those who don't view him in the best light doesn't mean doesn't mean he's entirely innocent either.

If there are truly no legs to this story, then it won't matter. But for many people, the fact that Memphis and UMass both have had rumors of improprieties under Calipari's watch is more than enough to justify a microscope.
 

Hey, hick, we get it. You don't care that UK hired a slimeball as their new hc, and you're going to spend your entire life defending him on every message board you can (pathetic beyond belief).

Everyone who has followed this scumbag over the years knows he cheats his ass off. He did at UMASS, then bolted before the program was crippled. Did the same at Memphis, and bolted before the program was about to be crippled. Now UK freaks are playing see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil because they want another title. Good for you. You're still pathetic.

Please, get the f*ck out of here and quit spamming this board with your rationalistic bullshit. Your team sold their soul, and did so knowingly. I hope the run at a title is worth it.

I'm going to ignore the personal attack and address one of your points:

My main contention has always been that Calipari is tried in the court of public opinion and if he is guilty (despite never having any infractions tied to him unlike other highly successful coaches) he isn't any bad or worse than a lot of other coaches (the great majority in fact) in this game.

It's all about image. Roy Williams was clearly in violation of NCAA rules at Kansas and left them holding the bag on the way out the door. But Roy gives an "aw shucks..it was a miscommunication" and everybody drops it. Why? Coach K used an ineligible player at Duke on a national runnerup team, claimed ignorance and everybody was like "okay. we'll take your word for it K." John Wooden? His players were paid top salaries by Sam Gilbert and left UCLA holding the bag after he retired. Wooden's reputation is impeccable though right?



I was tracking ya until you proposed this whole "vast conspiracy" line. Calipari is hardly a victim of anything. He has made his choices and his players have made theirs over the year. But to suggest that Calipari is some kind of victim is stretching a bit. Most victims I know don't sign multi-million dollar deals with programs like Kentucky and recruit five-star recruit after five-star recruit wherever they go.

I'm not suggesting that anything you have said is false or that Calipari is indeed guilty in this case. But the fact remains that there has been questions and rumors about him on more than one occasion. Does that mean he's guilty? Of course not. But just because there are those who don't view him in the best light doesn't mean doesn't mean he's entirely innocent either.

If there are truly no legs to this story, then it won't matter. But for many people, the fact that Memphis and UMass both have had rumors of improprieties under Calipari's watch is more than enough to justify a microscope.

I wasn't referring to Calipari and I believe Johnny was referring to the story I posted on the Wright recruitment and my details of the UK staff at that time.

You do bring up some interesting points though and it ties in to what I posted above. It really is all about image. Some coaches have an image that deflects any and all criticism despite ample evidence to the contrary. For some reason Calipari is a polarizing figure and I haven't figured out why.

Let's say, for argument's sake, that he knew Camby was receiving money from that runner and permitted it or at the least looked the other way. How is that different from what Wooden did with Sam Gilbert? One is a legend and the other is a scumbag. Calipari is active with his charity work, has a family, has never been in trouble with the law. Yet he's viewed as a snake or evil incarnate because of this cloud of suspicion.
 


I have to say that " The Truth " has been a very reasonable poster here. I've thrown out a few jabs at the current situation with Calipari and TT has handled them with class. I " reserve " the right to throw them out as I see a bit of dark humor in all of it but TT has handled himself well here and in polite fashion.

Well done TT. :)
 

I'm going to ignore the personal attack and address one of your points:

My main contention has always been that Calipari is tried in the court of public opinion and if he is guilty (despite never having any infractions tied to him unlike other highly successful coaches) he isn't any bad or worse than a lot of other coaches (the great majority in fact) in this game.

It's all about image. Roy Williams was clearly in violation of NCAA rules at Kansas and left them holding the bag on the way out the door. But Roy gives an "aw shucks..it was a miscommunication" and everybody drops it. Why? Coach K used an ineligible player at Duke on a national runnerup team, claimed ignorance and everybody was like "okay. we'll take your word for it K." John Wooden? His players were paid top salaries by Sam Gilbert and left UCLA holding the bag after he retired. Wooden's reputation is impeccable though right?

I wasn't referring to Calipari and I believe Johnny was referring to the story I posted on the Wright recruitment and my details of the UK staff at that time.

You do bring up some interesting points though and it ties in to what I posted above. It really is all about image. Some coaches have an image that deflects any and all criticism despite ample evidence to the contrary. For some reason Calipari is a polarizing figure and I haven't figured out why.

Let's say, for argument's sake, that he knew Camby was receiving money from that runner and permitted it or at the least looked the other way. How is that different from what Wooden did with Sam Gilbert? One is a legend and the other is a scumbag. Calipari is active with his charity work, has a family, has never been in trouble with the law. Yet he's viewed as a snake or evil incarnate because of this cloud of suspicion.

To be honest, I don't know enough about any of these coaches to make an informed assessment of their character, either negative or positive. And I don't doubt that many coaches (I guess that counts as most) are what I could term "unsavory." Having said that, I completely agree that some folks are more polarizing than others. Calipari is one of those.

For me, a lot comes down the issue of legality versus ethics. This is where plenty of coaches leave the tracks in my opinion. It all comes down to what you value as a coach and a person in your program. Wins? education? charity? Wins, education and charity? Wins and charity but not education? and so on and so forth. For the most part, I hold the belief that coaches tend to toe the legal line but overlook ethical practice. I have nothing to back this up other than opinion.

But that is where I start looking. It's a complicated mixture at its best, which is why I try to take things on strictly a case-by-case basis.
 

Saul's comment was a shot at the bow of the administration of UK that he feels didn't give him the opportunity to coach at his Alma-Mater with his father.
Saul is rationalizing here and it's a poor show on his part. You can't claim recruiting suffered because you didn't "pay" for players. Does that exist? Sure it does and it happens in ways that the NCAA haven't even begun to understand but it doesn't happen every single time. It's a blanket statement to justify why recruiting suffered at UK under Smith at points.


Brandon Wright was set to commit to UK. He stated that he grew up a UK fan. Every time Tubby asked Reggie Hanson, the pointman on the recruitment, Reggie would say "It's in the bag" What Reggie failed to tell him was that Roy Williams was personally camping out at Wright's high school just to be noticed: Not talking to him but sitting in the stands with a bag of popcorn. Talk to the people at BA and they'll tell you the same thing: That left an impression on Wright. So Wright comes to UK on his official, is ready to commit on the spot, and Tubby tells him (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Don't, go ahead and take your other visits". Wright's next visit was to Carolina and their midnight madness. He committed a couple of days later (not real sure on the timeframe on that one) to North Carolina and ended up saying that UK finished a distant third to them and Duke.

What happened next is in UK lore: Tubby went apeshit. He held a staff meeting and tore into his assistants. This was all witnessed by a former long time UK Secretary (and a person that Billy Gillispie had transferred out of the basketball offices because he didn't like her because she "ran her mouth"-which was true. Font of information that lady was. That helped sever his relationship with former alums. She was beloved by the former players on a level matched only by Mr. Wildcat) and reported on TCP at the time. Evidently, Reggie also hadn't even bothered to update the mailing lists on the database that programs use to send out to potential recruits. Tubby at that point told them if they couldn't do their jobs he'd do them for them and got back into recruiting more on the road instead of leaving it up to Hanson and Rigot (who is worthless. I don't often speak ill of people on the internet but this is they guy who, when asked by an AAU coach about Kevin Durant during his junior year, answered "Who is Kevin Durant?") to make the contacts.


When George Felton left (and I've met him through my Grandfather who played at USC in football back in the 50's. Between him, Don Meyer and Rick Byrd I've learned more about the game just being quiet and listening than all the books I've read or the games I've played) Tubby lost a lot. Felton knew everybody in the high school, in the summer circuit and in the cams. Felton was instrumental in landing Tayshaun Prince and Keith Bogans because of his relationships with their coaches/handlers and Tubby would come in and close. That's what Tubby is great at in recruiting for the most part: Closing. Walking into a home and sealing the deal. The sad thing is that's not how it's done anymore. You have to (for better or worse) "work the circuit" all summer, be seen at every kids game, your assistants have to be seen, you have to "schmooze' and if you're not good at that your assistants better damn well be. Which is why Vince Taylor is just a plus for you guys: He knows how to do this stuff so Tubby doesn't have to.

I know Marta McMackin personally and correspond with her by E-Mail from time to time. She has categorically denied that story when I asked her about it in the past. It's not The Truth.

Scott Rigot was the lead UK recruiter on Ramel Bradley, Derrick Jasper, and Jodie Meeks. Hardly worthless, unless you happened to be looking at The Truth in the mirror at the time.

Tubby signed a player from Compton Dominguez at Tulsa in early 1990's and knew Prince's HS coach from that. Felton had nothing to do with it.

Likewise Bogans. Tubby had contacts with him since he (Tubby) was born and raised in Maryland. Felton had zero to do with it.

You'd better start posting The Truth because I'm your lie detector, Bubba.
 

I know Marta McMackin personally and correspond with her by E-Mail from time to time. She has categorically denied that story when I asked her about it in the past. It's not The Truth.

Scott Rigot was the lead UK recruiter on Ramel Bradley, Derrick Jasper, and Jodie Meeks. Hardly worthless, unless you happened to be looking at The Truth in the mirror at the time.

Tubby signed a player from Compton Dominguez at Tulsa in early 1990's and knew Prince's HS coach from that. Felton had nothing to do with it.

Likewise Bogans. Tubby had contacts with him since he (Tubby) was born and raised in Maryland. Felton had zero to do with it.

You'd better start posting The Truth because I'm your lie detector, Bubba.

I refuse to acknowledge you or debate any of your points until a. You issue an apology for the slanderous things you've said about me on this board in the past and b. You drop the racist straw man arguments.
 



I refuse to acknowledge you or debate any of your points until a. You issue an apology for the slanderous things you've said about me on this board in the past and b. You drop the racist straw man arguments.

I speak the actual facts. You lack The Truth.
 

My main contention has always been that Calipari is tried in the court of public opinion and if he is guilty (despite never having any infractions tied to him unlike other highly successful coaches) he isn't any bad or worse than a lot of other coaches (the great majority in fact) in this game.

It never ends, does it? Your defense of Cal is bordering on obsession. Are you his mom? Wife? Friend of Tub, er, I mean Friend of Cal?

Let me make this clear. He has never had any major infractions against him because he catches the last scumbag train out of town before the shit hits the fan. Whether or not you believe he knew anything about or assisted in Camby's bags (plural) of money or Rose cheating to get into Memphis (where I'm sure he never accepted a dime from anyone once he was there) is irrelevant. IT IS HIS JOB TO KNOW! He is responsible for the players he brings in to his program. Period. Whether it's a rogue agent funneling money to them, getting paid by an AAU coach to go to a certain school, or cheating academically it's all irrelevant. Shockingly, both players just "happened" to be the best players on each Cal team that made the Final Four. They just "happened" to be the ones who cheated, or should I say that's been leaked publicly that cheated.

ohmygodwhattacoincidence!

And for the tenth time, no one here is defending K or Roy, or even talking about them for that matter. Why do you keep bringing them up as defense or your new scumbag? And now Wooden? My god. Coach Cal is such a martyr. A victim of circumstance (repeatedly). Trouble just happens to follow him everywhere he goes, and it's all unfounded for poor 'ol Cal. Hopefully this current stop will mark the end of Calipari's career and a death penalty for UK basketball after his next round of cheating gets uncovered.
 

It never ends, does it? Your defense of Cal is bordering on obsession. Are you his mom? Wife? Friend of Tub, er, I mean Friend of Cal?

Let me make this clear. He has never had any major infractions against him because he catches the last scumbag train out of town before the shit hits the fan. Whether or not you believe he knew anything about or assisted in Camby's bags (plural) of money or Rose cheating to get into Memphis (where I'm sure he never accepted a dime from anyone once he was there) is irrelevant. IT IS HIS JOB TO KNOW! He is responsible for the players he brings in to his program. Period. Whether it's a rogue agent funneling money to them, getting paid by an AAU coach to go to a certain school, or cheating academically it's all irrelevant. Shockingly, both players just "happened" to be the best players on each Cal team that made the Final Four. They just "happened" to be the ones who cheated, or should I say that's been leaked publicly that cheated.

ohmygodwhattacoincidence!

And for the tenth time, no one here is defending K or Roy, or even talking about them for that matter. Why do you keep bringing them up as defense or your new scumbag? And now Wooden? My god. Coach Cal is such a martyr. A victim of circumstance (repeatedly). Trouble just happens to follow him everywhere he goes, and it's all unfounded for poor 'ol Cal. Hopefully this current stop will mark the end of Calipari's career and a death penalty for UK basketball after his next round of cheating gets uncovered.

Wow. Amazing at the conclusions you jump to. You do realize that two other players from Simeon High School's Championship teams are implicated in this right? Two players who did not attend Memphis but UW-Milwuakee-both of them no longer there. One is in prison for armed robbery and the other is slated to play at Chicago St. this upcoming season.

I drew parallels between other coaches because I was discussing why one coach is a polarizing figure while others, who are guilty of the same transgressions and have actually been found guilty of being involved by the NCAA (unlike Calipari) are seemingly held to a different standard with the media and the public. How is Calipari's tenure at Umass different from Roy Williams tenure at Kansas expect in terms of punishment and perception? Both of them left a school under the cloud of NCAA investigation and only one was found guilty of being directly involved.

I fail to see how a coach is responsible for something like the Rose situation unless you honestly believe that Calipari and the Memphis staff a. knew about the fraud before hand and b. actively conspired to forge transcripts, break into the Chicago Public School Systems computer network to change a grade (that ended up having no real effect on his eligibility from what I understand. It just made it look better. The other grade changes were to help maintain the high school eligibility of his teammates), then did the same to change it back and somehow hired a body double to take a standardized test and score enough to not raise suspicion and just well enough to gain entrance into Memphis. That's a huge leap there friend.

Was Calipari responsible in the Camby situation? To an extent yes. He should have done a better job in watching his players but if you've researched this in any length you'd find that Camby did a pretty good job of hiding this stuff and the people involved weren't exactly the most savory of characters. It's one thing to watch Boosters and "friends of the program" but it's another to have to watch guys off the street handing out cash and gifts (and in Camby's case hookers) to his friends and family back home. Coaches can't be babysitters, they can't follow a kid around 24/7 and then assign someone to follow that players friends and family around as well. Somehow you've come to the conclusion that a coach is responsible for a kid's action every minute of every day they become a recruitable athlete. That if a kid screws up and makes a bad decision it is automatically the coaching staff's fault.

I think you're going to find that everywhere talent congregates, be it in basketball or football, there is always someone ready, willing and able to take advantage. It's hard to be a D-1 athlete and the temptations are great and many. If you want to condemn something condemn the system and the atmosphere that is created by the Billion Dollar College Athletics industry. Get mad at a culture that has created legions of 13 year old commodities flooding the summer circuit. If you want to cast aspersions at everyone else I suggest you look at your own house first. No one is totally clean in this game. Some coaches and administrators just choose to turn a blind eye and hope things turn out for the best, others do their due diligence and make every effort but it is still not enough.


Finally, if you're going to argue the merits of your position it pays to do the research and refrain from personal attacks. If you can't do that there is no reason you or I ever have to communicate in any form again.
 




Here's a fact:

TheTruth = moron

Is it really so hard to say "I disagree with your position and here's why:....." Sorry If I don't just nod my head and take everything at face value. I investigate, I research, I examine and then I formulate my opinions accordingly after obtaining as much data as possible. Are they automatically 100% correct and the right one? No, because people seem to mistake having an opinion means that it is entered into record as fact. Just having an opinion doesn't alleviate one from critical analyses or debate. Just having an opinion doesn't mean it automatically has merit or value.

When people start the name calling in lieu of intelligent, rational discourse it's not me that looks stupid or foolish.
 

Sorry If I don't just nod my head and take everything at face value. I investigate, I research, I examine and then I formulate my opinions accordingly after obtaining as much data as possible.

This is where I think your'e full of it. You have not researched, investigated or examined the facts to form an opinion. A pre-existing bias, namely being a UK apologist that posts all over the interwebs (on sites not related to your team) defending the "honor" of a basketball program with a long history of cheating, has tainted your ability to reasonably form an opinion of Cal. Crack open that textbook from UK and look up research bias, you've covered at least 3 different types. People without vested interests in the man or the current program he is tarnishing, concluded long ago that he is an ethical wasteland. I'm sure you were spouting your investigations *snicker* all over when Cal was at Memphis, right? What about UMass?

You can play the dissassociation game or claim plausible deniability all you want, it doesn't change his past. The facts are that Cal is a win-at-all costs coach who brings in very questionable players, both academically and ethically, to reach his ends. He has done it for over a decade. Then he just shrugs his shoulders, leaves before the program can be trashed by the NCAA, and claims no involvement. It's always someone else's fault with people of Cal's "integrity", but he continues surrounding himself with those kinds of people to this day. Hopefully it finally catches up with him and UK gets to bear the brunt of it too.
 

You have not researched, investigated or examined the facts to form an opinion.

Yes I have. Here are some of my sources:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_n23_v221/ai_19503011/

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1010875/index.htm

http://www.highbeam.com/The+Boston+Globe+(Boston,+MA)/publications.aspx
(which you'll have to pay for.)

http://www.courant.com/
(which you'll also have to pay for the relevant articles)

and that's just for the Camby situation plus people I talked to that I know. The opinion (like that of most any coach) is mixed. Some love him, some hate him but most won't talk about it on the record.


A pre-existing bias,
Of course you have no such problem with bias.

namely being a UK apologist that posts all over the interwebs (on sites not related to your team)
I've been more than fair in my assessments and been critical when I feel it has been warranted. I also don't "post all over the interwebs". This is actually the only forum I participate in mainly because of certain posters who I feel offer strong commentary.

defending the "honor" of a basketball program with a long history of cheating, has tainted your ability to reasonably form an opinion of Cal.

I'm not "defending" so much as discussing. Do I seek to counter some claims that I believe to be patently false when brought up in a discussion? Yes. Do I bring them up? Not at all.

I'm well aware of the history of Kentucky basketball and have furnished resources on that issue you're hammering on when prompted to. It's pretty out in the open and there is nothing to hide. We can discuss it further if you wish.

Crack open that textbook from UK and look up research bias, you've covered at least 3 different types.
Didn't actually attend UK. I was at Transy for a year and then transferred to Belmont University where I met my wife.

And I think what you claim I'm guilty of is cognitive bias. That I'm only able to accept evidence that supports my preconceived notions or opinions and dismiss evidence that doesn't support or is in conflict. I disagree with that and if you've read another of my posts you would note that I said Calipari should have watched his players better at UMass and he was at fault to an extent in that situation just not to the extent that people love to paint him with. The fact that he was cleared by the NCAA in the process fully supports my conclusion.

People without vested interests in the man or the current program he is tarnishing, concluded long ago that he is an ethical wasteland.

Who would those be? Everyone has detractors (and that doesn't automatically make their criticism less valid by the way) but they also have supporters. The key is to study those arguments (pro and con), the background of those making them and determining for yourself the merits of their position. You've obviously concluded this is a black and white issue with no room for debate.

I'm sure you were spouting your investigations *snicker* all over when Cal was at Memphis, right? What about UMass?

I actually have some connections to the Memphis program and I'll tell you the only two things I heard about Calipari were that they questioned the cars that some of the players drove and that FedEx's relationship with the Athletics Program in how summer internships were handled was questionable. I know one of those was investigated and the NCAA cleared it. Not sure which one though.


You can play the dissassociation game or claim plausible deniability all you want, it doesn't change his past.

A past with no NCAA violations on his record unlike some of his prominent peers. You can ignore that fact if you wish but as of this moment he is only guilty by reputation.

The facts are that Cal is a win-at-all costs coach who brings in very questionable players, both academically and ethically, to reach his ends. He has done it for over a decade.

What major program doesn't bring in questionable players at some point? Minnesota has and does. Are you naive enough to believe that most of the football and basketball teams are their for the academic experience? Does Al Nolen get into Minnesota if he's a normal student? Does Rodney Williams? Marquise Gray?

Yes, there are concerns with some prospects from rough backgrounds (and I've made those clear when asked) because it's a huge risk. But if you give a guy a shot and he succeeds, gets a degree, goes on to play Pro ball somewhere and improves his socioeconomic status aren't you doing something good? Of course the flipside is that it backfires and you take a PR hit or open yourself up to a host of other problems.




Then he just shrugs his shoulders, leaves before the program can be trashed by the NCAA, and claims no involvement.

Explain to me again how Calipari is 100% responsible for Rose's situation? A situation that is flimsy at best and the University of Memphis still offered more money than UK to keep the man?

To the Camby situation-I've said it before he does have some responsibility in that mess but how much is the question. Are you punishing him for taking a poor kid from Hartford who everybody saw as a meal ticket? Considering no evidence exists after a thorough investigation on UMass and the NCAA's part of him being guilty of anything more than not be as vigilant as he could be (which is a stretch)

If you want to discuss the Jeremy Hunt situation, The Shawne Taggert situation or anything else please cite those and we'll go from there. It's going to be hard to do anything though because you seem dead set on not offering any supporting evidence of similar situations involving other coaches.

It's always someone else's fault with people of Cal's "integrity", but he continues surrounding himself with those kinds of people to this day. Hopefully it finally catches up with him and UK gets to bear the brunt of it too.

What kind of "people" are those? WWW? So he's guilty by association because he knows people? Is Bobby Knight guilty because he and Jerry Tarkaninian are old friends? Is Tubby guilty because he and Kelvin Sampson are friends? Is FDR guilty because he and Stalin were pen pals?
 


http://www.suntimes.com/news/education/1599324,CST-NWS-rose30.article


The more that comes out you have to say there is no way that Memphis could be involved in all this. I don't know how you could strip Memphis of its season for something that they had no way of knowing was fraudulent especially after the NCAA Clearinghouse gave them the approval that everything was okay.

I think what this story is illustrating as more information becomes available is that this kind of situation isn't an uncommon one. I knew fellow athletes (and I assume some of you did to) in my own High School (others schools as well) that benefited from favorable grades because of what they could do on the playing field or the court. Does that make it right? No, but it's hard to pass judgment on Rose himself or any athlete because the system around him chooses to break the rules in their name, for their supposed benefit.

Rose (and others) profit from this "goodwill" because of what they can do but not who they are. If Rose were some poor kid with no basketball skills on the South Side of Chicago, struggling to gain entrance to the halls of higher education so he could pull himself out of that environment, it would be laughable to claim that the same lengths would have been undertaken to ensure a favorable outcome. Derrick Rose isn't a bad kid nor does he possess some character flaw because of all this. The only thing he is guilty of is being a basketball prodigy that everybody wanted to help: be it for his or their own fortunes.
 

http://www.suntimes.com/news/education/1599324,CST-NWS-rose30.article


The more that comes out you have to say there is no way that Memphis could be involved in all this. I don't know how you could strip Memphis of its season for something that they had no way of knowing was fraudulent especially after the NCAA Clearinghouse gave them the approval that everything was okay.

I think what this story is illustrating as more information becomes available is that this kind of situation isn't an uncommon one. I knew fellow athletes (and I assume some of you did to) in my own High School (others schools as well) that benefited from favorable grades because of what they could do on the playing field or the court. Does that make it right? No, but it's hard to pass judgment on Rose himself or any athlete because the system around him chooses to break the rules in their name, for their supposed benefit.

Rose (and others) profit from this "goodwill" because of what they can do but not who they are. If Rose were some poor kid with no basketball skills on the South Side of Chicago, struggling to gain entrance to the halls of higher education so he could pull himself out of that environment, it would be laughable to claim that the same lengths would have been undertaken to ensure a favorable outcome. Derrick Rose isn't a bad kid nor does he possess some character flaw because of all this. The only thing he is guilty of is being a basketball prodigy that everybody wanted to help: be it for his or their own fortunes.

Rose lived on the West Side of Chicago. There are needy families on the West, South, and North Sides - just as there are middle class and well-to-do families in each of those areas of the city.
 

Derrick Rose isn't a bad kid nor does he possess some character flaw because of all this. The only thing he is guilty of is being a basketball prodigy that everybody wanted to help: be it for his or their own fortunes.

This will be the last time I ever respond to one of your posts. It has all become crystal clear now. If this is your reaction to a player cheating on his SATs to get into a college basketball program, then I know exactly where you stand on all ethical issues we could ever debate. I will no longer waste my time.

I mean, are you kidding me? He is guilty of lying and cheating. That's ok with you? What the hell kind of person are you? Doesn't possess a character flaw? He is not a f*cking victim in all of this. He was not an innocent bystander...HE IS THE ONE WHO CHEATED. He is guilty of that, right? Is that something? Or did his crossover cheat on the test unbeknownst to DRose?

What is the matter with you? People like you are why this kind of shit continues to happen, hold someone accountable for their actions for christ's sake. No wonder you defend guys like Calipari...it's always someone else's fault...I'm the victim...people took advantage of me.

Disgusting. I don't even have to guess where your political convictions lie.
 

This will be the last time I ever respond to one of your posts. It has all become crystal clear now. If this is your reaction to a player cheating on his SATs to get into a college basketball program, then I know exactly where you stand on all ethical issues we could ever debate. I will no longer waste my time.

I mean, are you kidding me? He is guilty of lying and cheating. That's ok with you? What the hell kind of person are you? Doesn't possess a character flaw? He is not a f*cking victim in all of this. He was not an innocent bystander...HE IS THE ONE WHO CHEATED. He is guilty of that, right? Is that something? Or did his crossover cheat on the test unbeknownst to DRose?

What is the matter with you? People like you are why this kind of shit continues to happen, hold someone accountable for their actions for christ's sake. No wonder you defend guys like Calipari...it's always someone else's fault...I'm the victim...people took advantage of me.

Disgusting. I don't even have to guess where your political convictions lie.

I really don't want to get pissy here but for the love of God can't you even read! Rose didn't change his grades or lose his original transcript-someone on the school's faculty did! Not only did they change his grade from a D to a C but they also changed the official records of his former teammates too, probably to keep them eligible to not only win two state titles but to make them both (who were apparently much poorer students then Rose) eligible to play college ball at UW-M. Neither of them had the pro future or potential that Rose had. Also, as was pointed out in the article, this grade changing wasn't confined to one school or sport. The Chicago School System's Inspector General has found other instances in other sports at other schools of this same occurrence.


To the SAT: Right now Memphis has forensic evidence from a FBI analyst that states that it is his handwriting on the test. What evidence have we been presented with other than a suspicion from the NCAA that someone else took the test for him? Right now, based on the evidence that is available, the conclusions I have drawn are solid ones. If new evidence that implicates Rose in actually cheating comes to light I'll reevaluate my stance. Maybe you should examine your own issues before throwing a hissy fit.

It's amazing that you want to throw a kid under a bus based on flimsy evidence just because you want to prove a point about another individual that makes your ass red. I guess we don't have to guess where your political convictions lie.

I understand some people don't like Calipari but take a moment, step back and actually look at the situation and come to a reasoned conclusion based on the facts and evidence at hand.
 



Actually, he would be the second coach to vacate NCAA appearances-Jim Valvano would be the first. Cal would be the first coach to vacate two Final 4 squads.
 

I enjoy reading The Truth's posts and getting a different perspective, but holy crap that dude must have a ton of free time on his hands...
 

Actually, he would be the second coach to vacate NCAA appearances-Jim Valvano would be the first. Cal would be the first coach to vacate two Final 4 squads.

Correct, my error. I wouldn't want to be on many lists with the late Jim Valvano. Nice guy but NCAA rule compliance was not his specialty.
 

I'm curious why Truth isn't addressing the Reggie Rose issue? I suppose Cal had no knowledge that the brother of his top recruit was flying on the team charter?

I realize some lackey in the accounting dept will take the fall for this but it's highly irregular for a coach to let a family member fly on the team charter like Rose did. Cal will never be implicated of course but this is the type of stuff where Cal pushes the envelope a lot.

I also used to be a big UK fan. I liked how Pitino coached, sue me. Anyway, I lost a lot of respect for the UK fans, like Truth, when they continued to defend Gillispie at ever turn. A guy who was sleeping with a player's girlfriend and has so many personal issues he should be university case study. He treated his players like Michael Vick's dogs. Their continued bashing of Tubby Smith and support of a despicable human raises questions about any fanbase and their collective sanity in my opinion.
 

I enjoy reading The Truth's posts and getting a different perspective, but holy crap that dude must have a ton of free time on his hands...

LoL..thank you. I've been on vacation the last week and still have a week to go. My wife took our youngest to visit her parents in Maryland and our oldest had an AAU tournament this weekend and he left with my parents Sunday to spend a week on the farm back in Kentucky. So I'm kind of on my own right now and just being lazy.

I'm curious why Truth isn't addressing the Reggie Rose issue? I suppose Cal had no knowledge that the brother of his top recruit was flying on the team charter?

I realize some lackey in the accounting dept will take the fall for this but it's highly irregular for a coach to let a family member fly on the team charter like Rose did. Cal will never be implicated of course but this is the type of stuff where Cal pushes the envelope a lot.

He wasn't flying on the team charter when Rose was a recruit. He was flying on the charter when Rose was playing. It's not an uncommon occurrence at major programs that use charter flights. Most programs allow Boosters and others to travel with the team and then they are billed. Reggie Rose did this numerous times and paid. It seems that it was an accounting issue and that he didn't pay one time. Somebody in Memphis' Compliance office screwed that up it looks like considering they had a CC on file and he had paid in the past. He'll pay it and that will be the end of it.

I don't know Minnesota's travel situation, if they use charter flights or not, but if they do you'll find people on the plane like family members, boosters, etc. The Athletic Departments in most cases sell those seats. It's considered a perk when you donate large sums of money and as long as you pay your bill it's well within NCAA rules.

I also used to be a big UK fan. I liked how Pitino coached, sue me. Anyway, I lost a lot of respect for the UK fans, like Truth, when they continued to defend Gillispie at ever turn.
I can't speak for everyone but I was critical of Gillispie. I didn't at the time know everything I know now though.

A guy who was sleeping with a player's girlfriend and has so many personal issues he should be university case study.
I would stay away from stuff like that. It is unsubstantiated rumor mongering. I don't share everything I know because it's not fair to any of the parties involved. If you dig hard enough you can find unflattering stuff on anyone.

He treated his players like Michael Vick's dogs. Their continued bashing of Tubby Smith and support of a despicable human raises questions about any fanbase and their collective sanity in my opinion.

Gillispie is from that Bobby Knight school. Some players tuned out that stuff and just played (like Patterson) and others were hurt by it. Gillispie's shortcoming is that he has no "off" mode and can't realize that you don't treat everyone the same in terms of criticism.

This is just my opinion but you can find just as many people who like Tubby Smith as don't. Even some of his harshest critics will admit that they like him personally, think he's a great man, just didn't care for his coaching or his recruiting. Sure some people will go off the deep end (that's a common thread among sports fans) but I try to stay away from blanket statements. There were people who didn't like the Gillispie hire from Day 1 and would have liked someone else. Just like there are some people who don't like Calipari and would have preferred another candidate.
 

It's not rumor mongering when you know it as virtual fact. (My source on this is very close to the UK program.) Gillispie is pretty much a loser in the highest sense of the word and if he would have won at UK he would have been revered. They are a win at all costs and the way Tubby was treated on his way out (and I'll never say he was 100% criticism free with on-court issues) was pretty sad. In exchange they would back a bottom of the barrel person like Billie Bob.

I will agree that not everone likes Tubby when he is coaching. The player I referenced above told me he pretty much hated Tubby when he played for him. Now looking back though he knows Tubby pretty much had his best interests in mind. (Although I still don't think there is a lot of love lost there.) He does, however, respect Tubby. I don't know for a fact, but I would doubt that any of Gillispie's players, Patterson included, who will look back and say they respect Gillispie.
 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4222106

There are two rumors floating around right now about how this all started. One is that someone in Rose's "camp" got cut out when Rose turned pro and is spilling these allegations to the NCAA as a matter of revenge/blackmail (which wouldn't shock me. That's how the Camby stuff at UMass came out) and the other is that person who the NCAA believes took the test for Rose (a person serving time for an armed robbery conviction) is the source for it.

I believe the former more than the latter because I don't see what purpose it would serve to spill to the NCAA. He's not going to get a reduction in his sentence because this isn't a criminal investigation (unlike some others in the past re. The Fab Five/Michigan scandal dealing with Ed Martin) and the NCAA wouldn't have any power to help him.

One of the things I have a problem with is the NCAA will never admit that they screwed up in all this and that they handle situations like these in a very peculiar (and arbitrary) fashion. If all this is proven to be true how is this any different than the Darrell Arthur situation at KU or the Maggette situation at Duke? Neither school was found to have known about the infractions and had no punishment give to them in terms of vacation of records.
 




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