My personal opinion of TCU

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I hope they finish 11-1.
 

Anybody that is downplaying TCU is covertly trying to hedge the Gophers. TCU is phenomenal, and if we are what we hope we are we will be able to make this a competitive game. Anything short of a complete embarrassment should be considered a success.
 

GopherHomer said:
Anybody that is downplaying TCU is covertly trying to hedge the Gophers. TCU is phenomenal, and if we are what we hope we are we will be able to make this a competitive game. Anything short of a complete embarrassment should be considered a success.
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Sorry I don't agree with you!, TCU will be a tough out, but they are not as good this year as they were last year. Last year, they played lights out on defense which greatly facilitated the offense, I don't see them playing nearly as well, after losing eight major contributors, six of whom started. Schematically we are built to defeat a 4-2-5 defense unless there is outstanding linebacker play. This year TCU has three freshmen on their two deeps including two true freshmen. I just don't see them getting the level of play at LB needed in the first game to make up for their defenses fundamental weakness against power teams.
 

nsmike said:
Sorry I don't agree with you!, TCU will be a tough out, but they are not as good this year as they were last year. Last year, they played lights out on defense which greatly facilitated the offense, I don't see them playing nearly as well, after losing eight major contributors, six of whom started. Schematically we are built to defeat a 4-2-5 defense unless there is outstanding linebacker play. This year TCU has three freshmen on their two deeps including two true freshmen. I just don't see them getting the level of play at LB needed in the first game to make up for their defenses fundamental weakness against power teams.
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I honestly can't believe there are still college football fans who think our defensive scheme is fundamentally weak against power teams.
 

GoFrogs said:
I honestly can't believe there are still college football fans who think our defensive scheme is fundamentally weak against power teams.
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What I said that it requires outstanding LB play to overcome it's schematic weaknesses. All defenses have flaws that are covered up by having outstanding play at certain positions 3-4 defenses are dependent on outstanding NT play. Last year Watson made 15 tackles, 9 solo, 4 TFL, 1 pass breakup, and a hit on the QB. Gary Patterson has always had great LB play and has made the 4-2-5 work. It'll be interesting to see how it works with inexperienced LB's.
 


TCU has been incredibly good against the run for years. The statistics say it all. Depending on the stats they were a top 5/top 10 run defense last year. That said teams like Air Force have had had some mild success the TCU 4-2-5, attacking with the older than dirt triple option. Maybe Limegrover will blow our minds and we'll see him sprinkle in some I-formation triple option or inside zone triple option.... Maybe attack the rookie defenders with some screens, sweeps, swing passes to Berkeley, Jeff Jones, Maye, or Carter.

Last year, on first down we ran zone read 12 times, power 3 times, passed 10 times without a lot of success. If you compare our offensive line play to say, Wisconsin in 2010 Rose Bowl, we weren't getting much push at all. Can the offensive line perform better this year, vs a very good defensive line? Time to live up to the rankings and hype.
 

IF

mkAz said:
I hope they finish 11-1.
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If the Gophers are ahead at halftime...TCU could finish 11-1. :cool: In all seriousness, how we start, what the score is after the first quarter is pretty important to the Gophers. Getting behind would not be a good thing for us. Behind by more than a touchdown early and I'll be quite concerned.
 

GopherHomer said:
Anybody that is downplaying TCU is covertly trying to hedge the Gophers. TCU is phenomenal, and if we are what we hope we are we will be able to make this a competitive game. Anything short of a complete embarrassment should be considered a success.
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Last year TCU came into the season terribly underrated which continued through most of the season, as they were a very good to elite team. Phil Steele had them pegged as a clear turnaround team from their struggles in 13. This year, I believe they come in slightly overrated and while they will be a good to very good team, I would be a little surprised, like "someguy" if they truly are an elite team worthy of top 2-3 in the country. I believe they will more likely land somewhere between 15-30 in the country. Their losses on defense will make a difference in a couple games and the intangibles are working against them this year.
 

nsmike said:
Sorry I don't agree with you!, TCU will be a tough out, but they are not as good this year as they were last year. Last year, they played lights out on defense which greatly facilitated the offense, I don't see them playing nearly as well, after losing eight major contributors, six of whom started. Schematically we are built to defeat a 4-2-5 defense unless there is outstanding linebacker play. This year TCU has three freshmen on their two deeps including two true freshmen. I just don't see them getting the level of play at LB needed in the first game to make up for their defenses fundamental weakness against power teams.
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No doubt. I held my nose and watched the game on youtube and their LBs killed our running game.
 



The Lorax said:
The answer is simple: Texas and Oklahoma are down, and Baylor are what they always are. Frauds. Plus the TCU-Baylor game is in Fort Worth this year.
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I was more talking about the lightning in a bottle statement.
TCU is essentially .500 against P5 plus BYU teams in the years you listed excluding last year,

You ripped on me for calling last year lightning in a bottle, that is the definition of lightning in a bottle.
I expect TCU to win 8-10 games. 8 wouldn't surprise me. I would definitely take the under in Vegas.
 

GopherHomer said:
Anybody that is downplaying TCU is covertly trying to hedge the Gophers. TCU is phenomenal, and if we are what we hope we are we will be able to make this a competitive game. Anything short of a complete embarrassment should be considered a success.
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What do you mean when you say hedge the gophers?


If the gophers win the game it means they are very good. They could lose and still be very good.
 

nsmike said:
Sorry I don't agree with you!, TCU will be a tough out, but they are not as good this year as they were last year. Last year, they played lights out on defense which greatly facilitated the offense, I don't see them playing nearly as well, after losing eight major contributors, six of whom started. Schematically we are built to defeat a 4-2-5 defense unless there is outstanding linebacker play. This year TCU has three freshmen on their two deeps including two true freshmen. I just don't see them getting the level of play at LB needed in the first game to make up for their defenses fundamental weakness against power teams.
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Here is TCU's national ranking of yards per carry against starting with 2014 back to 2008: 1, 13, 12, 27, 10, 2, 1

Either you're wrong that their scheme requires outstanding LB play, or TCU always has outstanding linebackers and this year will probably be no different. I remember reading similar posts about TCU's defense last year. That they were undersized and with their 4-2-5 scheme we should be able to run against them. We saw what happened, they absolutely dominated us up front. I can't believe I'm reading similar posts a year later. We're going to have to be able to throw the ball down field if we want to have a chance at winning.
 

TCU is definitely the favorite in the Big 12 this year. I think they have as good of a chance to run the table in the regular season as anyone. I think 8-4 is their absolute worst case scenario.
 



TCU will stuff the run.

If our passing games does not show up, I am afraid we'll be in for a long evening unless our Defense can play flawlessly.
 

My prediction,
Offensively- is that we play them incredibly tough. Move the ball well with nugget early on, initially show that were prepared to win with play calling, then miss a few passes, they stiffen up on run D and we go predictable on O and go cold...
Defensively- We play really good run and pass defense, but TCU adjusts, spreading WRs out, twins and trips either side, we cover well but leave the middle of the field WIDE OPEN for Boykin to dash for 15 yards before the first guy gets to him. We come in over amped up and lose contain (looking at you Campbell..), and a la the OSU game where Barret sliced us, or the Mizzou game where the draw run up the middle killed us. We need to figure that out, fast, or we'll have serious problems.
 

diehard said:
You do have an outstanding HC. A step back for the D. Boykin an exciting Q B, but significantly overhyped. 9-3 would be a nice year for you. You could be better next year.
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Here's the thing. Every single year, we've lost key contributors/leaders on defense, and every year everyone says "this is the year that Patterson's D takes a step back"... And every year Coach P ends up fielding a top-tier defense in the conference.

They may not be as productive as last year, but it's not going to be a significant step back, and the defense SHOULD be significantly more athletic and a bit faster this season. Offense is gonna score points on points on points. The whole "they surprised everyone last year" is a dumb comment I've seen that assumes every team was watching 2013 film. They had film on the offense and studied it, so nobody was caught off guard.
 

Sauce Frog said:
Here's the thing. Every single year, we've lost key contributors/leaders on defense, and every year everyone says "this is the year that Patterson's D takes a step back"... And every year Coach P ends up fielding a top-tier defense in the conference.

They may not be as productive as last year, but it's not going to be a significant step back, and the defense SHOULD be significantly more athletic and a bit faster this season. Offense is gonna score points on points on points. The whole "they surprised everyone last year" is a dumb comment I've seen that assumes every team was watching 2013 film. They had film on the offense and studied it, so nobody was caught off guard.
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I'm not looking for a pissing match, I'm just curious why you feel this way. The departing seniors played relatively slowly? On a top 5 defense? I mean, c'mon we're all prone to hyperbole from time to time but have these new starters played many snaps, to be able to make such a statement?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I'm not looking for a pissing match, I'm just curious why you feel this way. The departing seniors played relatively slowly? On a top 5 defense? I mean, c'mon we're all prone to hyperbole from time to time but have these new starters played many snaps, to be able to make such a statement?
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From a measurables standpoint, our linebackers and safeties stepping in are faster and more athletic than Carter/Hackett/Dawson/Mallett. Now, whether they'll be as productive will have to be determined, but on paper they are faster and more athletic than their predecessors.

That said, I think our game with y'all is gonna be a good one, and I don't see a blowout. Y'all losing Cobb and Mad Maxx were big losses but I have a lot of respect for Kill and the team's he fields.
 

Sauce Frog said:
Here's the thing. Every single year, we've lost key contributors/leaders on defense, and every year everyone says "this is the year that Patterson's D takes a step back"... And every year Coach P ends up fielding a top-tier defense in the conference.

They may not be as productive as last year, but it's not going to be a significant step back, and the defense SHOULD be significantly more athletic and a bit faster this season. Offense is gonna score points on points on points. The whole "they surprised everyone last year" is a dumb comment I've seen that assumes every team was watching 2013 film. They had film on the offense and studied it, so nobody was caught off guard.
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The Gophers were in a tough spot last year with such little film of the Frogs new offense.
 

Well, to give you one example, I don't think anyone here would argue that our fastest DB is our best DB. it may well be the case that the new players have equal or better instincts and will play faster. I think that's a real stretch. I don't think the sample size (in years) is large enough to say that losing such a large number of the back seven will have a minor effect. Now, Gary P. has worked miracles down there so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

The real question in my mind is if we will attack the weaknesses of your defense and try to confuse the youngsters, or do what we did last year. Will our offensive line play be better, will our QB settle his nerves and do what we know he's capable of. Will our D force some turnovers and keep it close. All open questions. It's a huge test, and I respect the hell out of your coach and team.
 

I've skimmed this thread. TCU has always been known as defense first. That's what they've hung their hat on. What made them great last year was that out of nowhere they not only had a good offense, they had a top 2-3 offense in the country. Truth is if their defense is anywhere close to their standard and even if their offense takes a step back, we're still looking at an excellent team. The Gopher's chance is with our defense. If the D brings its A game it can realistically expect to keep TCU around 35pts and if it does that then they have a chance. In our 3 B10 losses last year we scored 24pts each. Not coincidentally those were also games our QB was missing open WRs. If the offense can hold its weight it can produce 28-35 pts. That's a lot of ifs. Bottom line is we have to bring our A game on both sides of the ball and it may not be enough, mainly because TCU is explosive on O and you can have 60 great defensive snaps and still give up 40 because they can strike at any time and last year our D's biggest issue was giving up explosive plays
 

oleboy41 said:
I've skimmed this thread. TCU has always been known as defense first. That's what they've hung their hat on. What made them great last year was that out of nowhere they not only had a good offense, they had a top 2-3 offense in the country. Truth is if their defense is anywhere close to their standard and even if their offense takes a step back, we're still looking at an excellent team. The Gopher's chance is with our defense. If the D brings its A game it can realistically expect to keep TCU around 35pts and if it does that then they have a chance. In our 3 B10 losses last year we scored 24pts each. Not coincidentally those were also games our QB was missing open WRs. If the offense can hold its weight it can produce 28-35 pts. That's a lot of ifs. Bottom line is we have to bring our A game on both sides of the ball and it may not be enough, mainly because TCU is explosive on O and you can have 60 great defensive snaps and still give up 40 because they can strike at any time and last year our D's biggest issue was giving up explosive plays
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Ole, there is no question TCU has a great offense and can put up some big points. I would not be shocked if our D doesn't play well and we have turnovers again in droves, that TCU can get to the 35-40 range. But what I don't get is how many expect that we can only reasonable expect to hold them to around 35 as you stated with our A game defense? Last year TCU scored 30 against us at their house, with I believe 24 of the points coming on short field drives after our turnovers or the long punt return. Obviously TCU would have scored on some of those drives, even if we hadn't turned the ball over, but fair to assume on not all of them when we held them to two field goals in the 2nd half. With the home crowd as a factor, and assuming we don't give them short fields 5 times again, I think we can reasonably expect holding TCU to the low 20's with a good defensive effort. Now the trick will be to find the points on the offensive end.
 

Everyone points to the fact that, Coach Patterson has always been able to replace his defensive losses, and consistently field outstanding defenses. What gets forgotten is that, at linebacker he has never had to play a freshman of any type on his two deeps. This year he has three freshmen on the two deeps, two of them true freshmen, the returning junior is expected to be second team. I'm not disputing that they will become fine players but I expect that they'll need a couple of games to get up to speed. Add in the fact that the 4-2-5 defense, that TCU plays, requires excellent linebacker play to work well and there is opportunity for the Gophers. I expect a lot of motion to confuse the young LBs. If the OL can create some creases against TCU's DL and give the RBs some room, while protecting Leidner on passing plays, we just might be efficient enough to keep Boykin on the bench.
 

nsmike said:
Everyone points to the fact that, Coach Patterson has always been able to replace his defensive losses, and consistently field outstanding defenses. What gets forgotten is that, at linebacker he has never had to play a freshman of any type on his two deeps. This year he has three freshmen on the two deeps, two of them true freshmen, the returning junior is expected to be second team. I'm not disputing that they will become fine players but I expect that they'll need a couple of games to get up to speed. Add in the fact that the 4-2-5 defense, that TCU plays, requires excellent linebacker play to work well and there is opportunity for the Gophers. I expect a lot of motion to confuse the young LBs. If the OL can create some creases against TCU's DL and give the RBs some room, while protecting Leidner on passing plays, we just might be efficient enough to keep Boykin on the bench.
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If you meant to say that Coach P has never had to play a freshman in the 2 deep at linebacker, you'd be wrong. David Hawthorne and Jason Phillips both started as freshman. Tank Carder and Tanner Brock both played when they were freshman. That's just off the top of my head.

Obviously there have been many freshman start and play at all the other defensive positions as well.
 

I expect the offense to carry the team for a while. It is an odd position for TCU to be in. But I think if it becomes a track meet that we will win. I do think that Minnesota has the best defense in B1G.
 

hornedfrog86 said:
I expect the offense to carry the team for a while. It is an odd position for TCU to be in. But I think if it becomes a track meet that we will win. I do think that Minnesota has the best defense in B1G.
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I think you mean Claeys is the best defensive coordinator. We like to call him the dark wizard of dinky town.
 

I agree with Campbell's tqke that TCU was the best team the Gophers played last year and I am sure they will be as good this year. I hope it takes them a few games to get there this season.
What I can't understand is how that excellent Frog defense allowed Baylor to score so many 4th quarter points last year.
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
I agree with Campbell's tqke that TCU was the best team the Gophers played last year and I am sure they will be as good this year. I hope it takes them a few games to get there this season.
What I can't understand is how that excellent Frog defense allowed Baylor to score so many 4th quarter points last year.
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IMO they were absolutely gassed.

Here were TCU's drives from that game, with time of possession and the result:

------First Quarter------
TOP: 2:28, Touchdown
TOP: 0:41, Touchdown
TOP: 1:25, Punt
TOP: 1:29, Punt
TOP: 0:31, Punt
TOP: 4:47, Touchdown

------Second Quarter------
TOP: 1:21, Punt
TOP: 2:25, FG
TOP: 0:00, Touchdown (Kickoff Return)
TOP: 0:25, Fumble
TOP: 2:49, Punt

------Third Quarter------
TOP: 2:14, FG
TOP: 1:30, Touchdown
TOP: 0:49, FG
TOP: 1:06, Touchdown

------Fourth Quarter------
TOP: 0:00, Touchdown (INT Return)
TOP: 2:37, Punt
TOP: 0:58, Punt
TOP: 3:31, Turnover on Downs

That's 19 drives, and the average drive took 1 minute, 31 seconds of game clock. Even removing the kickoff return and INT return, the average TCU drive was 1 minute 42 seconds of game clock. They possessed the ball a lot but it was a whole lot of quick possessions and they couldn't keep it up at the end. Add in that the offense ran just 9 plays in the first 10 minutes of the fourth quarter and it's a recipe for disaster.
 


I was wrong on TCU.
I also thought their schedule was tougher than it is. To this point the gophers are the second best record they have played against. (Texas tech is 5-3)
 

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