MN not allowing sports gambling maybe temporarily not so bad

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The other Minnesota connection to all of this - the Bowman kid, Todd's kid, left when he realized he wouldn't or couldn't pass Dekkers on the depth chart. Maybe he wouldn't be number 2, either, but this would have been his opportunity to earn the top spot. Instead, he's hoping for Streveler magic in Vermillion, SD.
 

The people who think it should forever be outlawed are the one's who needed smaller soda bottles to help manage their own decisions. The kid is an outlier not the standard.

Wonder how many athlete's have just been using a VPN or offshore book?
 






GopherTheJugular said:
I'll admit I was unaware of that. So you have a valid point that the debt doesn't go away.

So I'll admit I learned something from your post, although I'd still prefer to let each person have enough rope to hang themselves if they screw up.
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Yeah how about no. I watched a friend destroy his life in a manner of months (twice) because of how easy gambling is. Sorry but this is something that needs to be controlled.

I am lucky, I gamble for the fun, its entertainment. It seems to be that way for you as well and that is great. Talk to someone who can't control it and see if you change your thought process on this. I know people who kicked heroin easier than gambling and that is no lie.

Edit: I appreciate that you have commented and amended your opinion. :)
 
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GopherTheJugular said:
I'll admit I was unaware of that. So you have a valid point that the debt doesn't go away.

So I'll admit I learned something from your post, although I'd still prefer to let each person have enough rope to hang themselves if they screw up.
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Promoting suicide? Would you mind explain explaining yourself?
 

Dave H said:
Yeah how about no. I watched a friend destroy his life in a manner of months (twice) because of how easy gambling is. Sorry but this is something that needs to be controlled.

I am lucky, I gamble for the fun, its entertainment. It seems to be that way for you as well and that is great. Talk to someone who can't control it and see if you change your thought process on this. I know people who kicked heroin easier than gambling and that is no lie.

Edit: I appreciate that you have commented and amended your opinion. :)
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The thing about addiction is it can’t be controlled through legislation, family support, or anything else. Unless something clicks into place for the person - It’s not going to be fixed. I don’t know anyone that has lost as much as your friend via gambling, but have experienced alcoholism with my wife (15+ years sober at this point). I tried and tried to fix it for her, but it really wasn’t until I was giving up that it clicked for her. Maybe that experience is different than others and I’m wrong, but it’s what I’ve seen!
 



PoockItInfor6 said:
The thing about addiction is it can’t be controlled through legislation, family support, or anything else. Unless something clicks into place for the person - It’s not going to be fixed. I don’t know anyone that has lost as much as your friend via gambling, but have experienced alcoholism with my wife (15+ years sober at this point). I tried and tried to fix it for her, but it really wasn’t until I was giving up that it clicked for her. Maybe that experience is different than others and I’m wrong, but it’s what I’ve seen!
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Every addict and addiction is different due to the circumstances of their addiction. Some need all the help in the world, some stop the instant they are told they have a problem, some it takes breaking a family and many more never find what it is they need. Easiest way to halt addiction is to not have it start or make the barrier to entry harder, in my opinion. But as I’ve mentioned, totally ok to feel otherwise. It’s why the states are all debating this so heavily as well.
 

upnorthkid said:
Every addict and addiction is different due to the circumstances of their addiction. Some need all the help in the world, some stop the instant they are told they have a problem, some it takes breaking a family and many more never find what it is they need. Easiest way to halt addiction is to not have it start or make the barrier to entry harder, in my opinion. But as I’ve mentioned, totally ok to feel otherwise. It’s why the states are all debating this so heavily as well.
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Banning advertisements would be reasonable. Chum in the water for the impulse control challenged. If one really wants to gamble, and the majority of a governing body wants it let them, but maybe shouldn’t be encouraged or enabled with inducements.
 

putting the larger discussion about gambling aside, the issue here is what to do about college athletes betting on sports. I am old enough to remember point-shaving scandals in college basketball. back in the 1950's, there was a huge point-shaving case that involved some of the top teams in the country, including Kentucky. later on, there were point-shaving cases at Boston College, Tulane and Northwestern.

the fear has always been that a player who gambles and loses may be willing to throw or fix games to try and get out of debt. that is why college athletes are prohibited from gambling (setting the whole legal age thing aside).

now with the online sites and account-sharing, athletes are finding a new way to gamble on sports.

NCAA has to drop the hammer on anyone involved in gambling. eligibility is forfeited. no exceptions.

any legal issues are above and beyond that.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
putting the larger discussion about gambling aside, the issue here is what to do about college athletes betting on sports. I am old enough to remember point-shaving scandals in college basketball. back in the 1950's, there was a huge point-shaving case that involved some of the top teams in the country, including Kentucky. later on, there were point-shaving cases at Boston College, Tulane and Northwestern.

the fear has always been that a player who gambles and loses may be willing to throw or fix games to try and get out of debt. that is why college athletes are prohibited from gambling (setting the whole legal age thing aside).

now with the online sites and account-sharing, athletes are finding a new way to gamble on sports.

NCAA has to drop the hammer on anyone involved in gambling. eligibility is forfeited. no exceptions.

any legal issues are above and beyond that.
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This is an interesting thought experiment. Random company signs athlete time NIL deal is basketball and then starts pressuring them to shave points, share insider info, etc. Whole lot of ways this thing may evolve
 



PoockItInfor6 said:
The thing about addiction is it can’t be controlled through legislation, family support, or anything else. Unless something clicks into place for the person - It’s not going to be fixed. I don’t know anyone that has lost as much as your friend via gambling, but have experienced alcoholism with my wife (15+ years sober at this point). I tried and tried to fix it for her, but it really wasn’t until I was giving up that it clicked for her. Maybe that experience is different than others and I’m wrong, but it’s what I’ve seen!
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I don't disagree with any of this, and as someone who also knows a lot of substance abuse addicts (and whose SO worked at Hazelden and other treatment places) I 100% get what you are saying. Gambling is a different addiction though, one that is harder to really frame than alcoholism or drug abuse is. It has an insidiousness and ease of access (and ability to hide it) that is just off the charts dangerous. Not to mention it feeds off any other addiction while also enhancing those addictions as well.

I don't want it legislated out, I think that is dumb and usually counterproductive because it incentivizes people not to seek help. Plus there is no evidence that keeping it illegal stops people from doing it anyways. Not to mention we have plenty of forms of legal gambling in the state already so if someone has a gambling addiction they can get their fix any number of ways. I used to work at an American Legion I saw people blow a thousand dollars on pull tabs in like 4 hours...

My buddy who experienced this was in a bad place in his life. (both times) He was always a bit of a drinker but never in an addictive way just fun with no bottom. It never took over his life and never got in the way of anything he needed to do even at his worst points in life. A few years back he got engaged for all the wrong reasons at a time when things were going sideways with work and other family issues. He always liked gambling (we had been doing it as far back as we can remember) so he would from time to time play online poker just to get away from the noise in his life. Within a few months he was completely broke because all he was doing was playing online fantasy sports all day. His engagement blew up, he almost lost his job, he lost his apartment and went to rehab not even realizing how far he had collapsed. And none of us knew about it because all he had to do was open his laptop and log on. The last time he had this issue he at least had to either call a bookie friend he had or drive to the casino/card room which people could sort of keep track of. Now he would sit at home and every time his fiancé started yelling at him he just sat in front of a screen or on his phone and pissed it all away. I have never seen anything like it...

There is no need to outlaw it, but there needs to be some steps taken to regulate how much it can be shoved in our face and how easy it is to access.
 
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LuluGopher said:
The people who think it should forever be outlawed are the one's who needed smaller soda bottles to help manage their own decisions. The kid is an outlier not the standard.

Wonder how many athlete's have just been using a VPN or offshore book?
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Ah yes, because everyone can control all of their actions. My god what a myopic and uniformed view of the world.

(and I don't think it should be outlawed)
 

Pompous Elitist said:
OK, then probably fair to say this is for entertainment value rather than a legit money-making business. Personally losing money (even a few thousand by omission or commission) smarts far worse than the joy of wins for me. The dopamine hit of say, making tens of thousands doesn’t outweigh losses psychologically so I guess I have a natural aversion. It’s just how I’m wired. That may be a fundamental issue or contrast with the addiction-prone. The temporary highs for whatever variety of reasons offset the negatives on balance. I’ll bet for lunch and bragging rights. That’s about it.

You sound like you haven’t let it spin out of control. And I agree with some others that with the internet it’s virtually impossible to keep addicts from gambling. Tough problem. That said, making addiction “easy” for those wired that way is probably a bad idea.
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Yeah, initially I made some bets that I thought were "gimmes" and I was right, and that got me to give it a legit go of it, but only to make spending money. And I'm with you on the pain of losses being worse than the feeling of success. I was close to giving up when I was in the red (but not that much in the red, just hundreds). Then I decided to change up what bets I go after and I've been a lot more successful in the past few years. But it's still for play money though. I just enjoy being right, whether it's with a bet or in the stock market.

And I like what you said above, that I bolded. If some people really can't handle this, there should be a barrier to entry - such as visiting a physical casino.

Random thought - you know how bartenders are told that they can't serve anyone who appears overly intoxicated? Could we hold casinos to the same level? Like, if someone logs in and loses $100 in 10 minutes, you have to ban them for a week? Or some type of tracking so that the casino has to shut down your betting if you show signs of being addicted?
 

swede2 said:
He's not talking about the sport's book, or bookies or loan sharks. He's talking about personal borrowing liquidity to gamble.

There's an even more pernicious side effect - crime. In my profession, I've encountered a number of businesses that have had employee embezzlement and gambling has almost always been the mea culpa.
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Yeah, I ended up getting educated after making the post you quoted. But you just add more facts to the convo - employee embezzlement due to gambling debts? Man, I feel like I'm out of it lol. This is way more serious than I ever thought.
 

Dave H said:
Edit: I appreciate that you have commented and amended your opinion. :)
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;) I'm fine admitting I didn't know as much as I thought, or that some people know more than me and I didn't realize it. The stories I've heard in this thread.... Yeah, at a minimum how about getting rid of those ads and easy apps? I enjoy the creativity of the commercials, but for some this is obviously predatory behavior, like the business is purposefully going after people who they know can't control themselves.
 

Looks like some are going to get their wish with injury reports. Another sequelae of gambling

www.espn.com

Kelly: LSU's injury report result of sports betting

LSU has a new, more "transparent" injury reporting policy that football coach Brian Kelly described Thursday as a "proactive" response to the proliferation of legalized sports betting.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 

upnorthkid said:
Looks like some are going to get their wish with injury reports. Another sequelae of gambling

www.espn.com

Kelly: LSU's injury report result of sports betting

LSU has a new, more "transparent" injury reporting policy that football coach Brian Kelly described Thursday as a "proactive" response to the proliferation of legalized sports betting.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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Kelly:
“So, I think it's much ado about nothing, and I think we angst over the littlest things that don't really affect the game and make too much of it.”

If it’s not a big deal and affects nothing then why is he worried about staff being harried by betting insiders. It matters, to some small degree. Kelly is either being sly or hubristic. At least if he clouds the issue there’s a chance for a small advantage assuming moles don’t sell the team out.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Kelly:
“So, I think it's much ado about nothing, and I think we angst over the littlest things that don't really affect the game and make too much of it.”

If it’s not a big deal and affects nothing then why is he worried about staff being harried by betting insiders. It matters, to some small degree. Kelly is either being sly or hubristic. At least if he clouds the issue there’s a chance for a small advantage assuming moles don’t sell the team out.
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I think the real worry would be gamblers trying to 'entice' players to spill inside information.

by being more open about injuries, in theory that makes it less likely that gamblers would need to target staff members or players for the info.

when you look at what was happening at Iowa and Iowa State, if a gambler got word that players were placing lots of bets, that opens up all kinds of potential problems.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
In sports betting, you aren't betting against "the house". For example, if I bet the "over" for Gophers to win more than the 6.5 games that the line is set at and I lose, I'm not losing to "the house" - I'm losing to another sports better that bet the "under" for 6.5 wins.

You are right though on the other stuff. If you play enough blackjack or any other table game, the house wins in the long run.
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Same with horse racing and poker.
 

LuluGopher said:
The people who think it should forever be outlawed are the one's who needed smaller soda bottles to help manage their own decisions. The kid is an outlier not the standard.

Wonder how many athlete's have just been using a VPN or offshore book?
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If you know a VPN that works on a domestic betting app, let me know. My experience shows online betting in the US has figured that trick out.
 

Gambling is a bad addiction. So is drinking. So is drugs. They all destroy lives. Is the answer to ban them all? Please. 🙄 Let adults make their own decisions…… and make them responsible for any consequences from them.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I think the real worry would be gamblers trying to 'entice' players to spill inside information.

by being more open about injuries, in theory that makes it less likely that gamblers would need to target staff members or players for the info.

when you look at what was happening at Iowa and Iowa State, if a gambler got word that players were placing lots of bets, that opens up all kinds of potential problems.
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Oh no doubt this could be an increasing problem going forward. The WakeyLeaks fiasco was a bombshell but put an exclamation mark on the fact there are, of course, dozens of potential disgruntled or money-motivated sources of information at each program. The Wake Forest coach didn’t even ask for money as far as we know; pretty twisted. Think back to the Jan 2001 Vikes Giants playoff game. It felt like they knew every play. Maybe they did.

Since it’s impossible to totally shut down espionage a possibly better option might be a counter espionage program to flood channels with bad information. One could even actively seek out and entice the spies. Make them work a little harder.
 

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