MN not allowing sports gambling maybe temporarily not so bad

In sports betting, you aren't betting against "the house". For example, if I bet the "over" for Gophers to win more than the 6.5 games that the line is set at and I lose, I'm not losing to "the house" - I'm losing to another sports better that bet the "under" for 6.5 wins.

You are right though on the other stuff. If you play enough blackjack or any other table game, the house wins in the long run.
That money goes to the house, they set the line to make money. That's it.

That other better you're imagining is losing long term too. He ain't winning...

They're not running all these ads and sponsorships and etc so they can give money from one gambler to another.
 

I was for it, but now I'm ardently against it.

If it happens, it should be allowed for only pro sports, no prop bets, no bets on a game after it's started, absolute ban on all universities from contracting with gambling companies, ban all advertising to those under 21, and no electronic bets. All bets must be made in person.

I'm sure I missed something, but if we're doing this, then it needs to be heavily regulated and scaled down.
Restricting it that way will only drive people back to off-shore sites. This is an NCAA/pro league issue. It should be legal for everyone who's not directly involved. Restricting University involvement/advertising fine.
 

Do you know of any place that allows you to make a bet without putting up the money first? I don't. Every sports bet I've made I've had to put the money up first, whether in a Vegas casino or online, and then I get paid out if I win the bet. In that system, how can anyone have a debt?

Now if you're talking about people making bets with "the mob" or whatever, I have no clue if you need to pay in advance, so maybe there you are right that a person could create a debt. But wouldn't legalized gambling be a way to prevent people from betting with the mob?
You do know you can use credit cards right? You can have tens of thousands of dollars in debt in a flash
 

So because a few people can't handle it, it needs to be taken away from all of us?

Is this kindergarten all over again? One kid gets out of line with a toy and now no one can use it?

We're grown adults. If we screw up and send our lives down the crapper, that's on the individual, not society. I prefer personal freedom, as opposed to giving up the freedom because some people can't handle it responsibly.
Im more commenting on the targeting of the entire thing. They want you to impulse start (here’s your free bet) and then chase it. Personally I’m not a huge fan of that “promotion” being plastered everywhere when the barrier to entrance is downloading an app and entering your credit card information. It has now become hard to escape seeing it if you follow sports at all which can make it tougher for someone struggling with it to get away from it while enjoying something they love (similarly to the difficulty people with alcoholism have watching some things with the boatload of alcohol advertising seen). I can respect your side as well and it’s fine to have the feeling towards it. I have nothing wrong with it being an option, I however do agree with those that push towards the making it in a restricted setting/place.
 

Restricting it that way will only drive people back to off-shore sites. This is an NCAA/pro league issue. It should be legal for everyone who's not directly involved. Restricting University involvement/advertising fine.
These companies don't do all this advertising, lobbying and so on ... because they could make the same amount off shore...
 


These companies don't do all this advertising, lobbying and so on ... because they could make the same amount off shore...
It's not the same companies for the most part. I'm just saying if you restrict it to in person only, no college sports etc. many people will go back to those sites. One of the main purposes of legalization is to keep that $$ in the state.
 



It's not the same companies for the most part. I'm just saying if you restrict it to in person only, no college sports etc. many people will go back to those sites. One of the main purposes of legalization is to keep that $$ in the state.
As well as to make it taxable.
 



Do you know of any place that allows you to make a bet without putting up the money first? I don't. Every sports bet I've made I've had to put the money up first, whether in a Vegas casino or online, and then I get paid out if I win the bet. In that system, how can anyone have a debt?

Now if you're talking about people making bets with "the mob" or whatever, I have no clue if you need to pay in advance, so maybe there you are right that a person could create a debt. But wouldn't legalized gambling be a way to prevent people from betting with the mob?
It's called credit, my man. Do some reading on gambling addiction, it's pretty significant worldwide, not just limited to one or two people here and there. There are so many examples of people losing money to the extent that they're applying for lines of credit in their spouse's or other family members' names because they're so far in the hole. "I'm gonna hit on this next bet and all of our problems will go away." It's endemic, I've experienced it within my own family, and it's an addiction in line with heroin or meth in terms of kicking it. It's also heavily normalized compared to drugs because "Hey, everybody does it.They advertise it on TV."
 


We're grown adults. If we screw up and send our lives down the crapper, that's on the individual, not society. I prefer personal freedom, as opposed to giving up the freedom because some people can't handle it responsibly.
The impact goes far beyond the individual in many, many cases. Families take a financial hit and some individuals hide it so well that it isn't found out for years in some cases. And, unlike a substance abuse addiction, this is super easy to hide.
 

So because a few people can't handle it, it needs to be taken away from all of us?

Is this kindergarten all over again? One kid gets out of line with a toy and now no one can use it?

We're grown adults. If we screw up and send our lives down the crapper, that's on the individual, not society. I prefer personal freedom, as opposed to giving up the freedom because some people can't handle it responsibly.
Agree. I'll be taking the Gophers against the spread in the opener.
 



EDIT: my comments only refer to the kind of betting I thought we were talking about, like over/under win totals, game spreads, etc. I'm not able to speak on daily fantasy and stuff like that, you could very well be correct there.

That money goes to the house

Who then proceeds to give almost all of it to the other better. Yes, they do take a small cut, but that's far from "losing" to them. For example, if I bet $100 on the over and Joe Schmoe bets $100 on the under, if I lose and Joe Schmoe wins, the house takes my $100, keeps like $5 for themselves, and passes the other $95 onto Joe Schmoe. That's not "the house" winning, that's "Joe Schmoe" winning.

Saying the house wins in that situation is like saying eTrade wins when your stock goes down because you paid them a commission fee to purchase the stock.

, they set the line to make money. That's it.

Not to sound harsh, but you are wrong. They set the line to attract an equal amount of wagers on both sides. That's it. Vegas, nor online casinos, have absolutely no clue how many games each of the 100+ FBS teams are going to win. They pick a number they hope is close, and if too many gamblers are on one side, they adjust the number to get gamblers on the other side. They are 100% NOT trying to bet against the individual.

That other better you're imagining is losing long term too. He ain't winning...

Someone is. For example, two years ago I had some bets in Vegas and I made hundreds of dollars. That money came from other betters betting on the same games as me, not the casino. Those betters lost their money to me, with the casino collecting a small fee for handling the bets.

They're not running all these ads and sponsorships and etc so they can give money from one gambler to another.
Yes they are, and they collect a small fee in doing so. Just like eTrade for stocks, some people make money, some people lose money, but eTrade lives off the commissions.

Have you ever placed a bet before? I've been doing this for many years.
 
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You do know you can use credit cards right? You can have tens of thousands of dollars in debt in a flash
I'll admit I was unaware of that. So you have a valid point that the debt doesn't go away.

So I'll admit I learned something from your post, although I'd still prefer to let each person have enough rope to hang themselves if they screw up.
 

They want you to impulse start (here’s your free bet) and then chase it. Personally I’m not a huge fan of that “promotion” being plastered everywhere when the barrier to entrance is downloading an app and entering your credit card information. It has now become hard to escape seeing it if you follow sports at all which can make it tougher for someone struggling with it to get away from it while enjoying something they love (similarly to the difficulty people with alcoholism have watching some things with the boatload of alcohol advertising seen).
Another good point! I don't have an addiction to it, as I have been happily enjoying sports betting for plenty of years now. But you make a great analogy. I've heard that it's hard for alcoholics sometimes to watch football because of beer commercials and the like, I just never paid much attention since I'm not one. But I can see your point on the enticement part. I wasn't enticed, I just made some bets and was successful and so just kept at it.

But I'm only coming from one perspective! Thanks for pointing out the other side.
 

It's called credit, my man. Do some reading on gambling addiction, it's pretty significant worldwide, not just limited to one or two people here and there. There are so many examples of people losing money to the extent that they're applying for lines of credit in their spouse's or other family members' names because they're so far in the hole. "I'm gonna hit on this next bet and all of our problems will go away." It's endemic, I've experienced it within my own family, and it's an addiction in line with heroin or meth in terms of kicking it. It's also heavily normalized compared to drugs because "Hey, everybody does it.They advertise it on TV."
Yeah, @upnorthkid kinda showed me the other side. I openly admit I was unaware you can use credit. That is nonsense. Thanks for correcting me. With credit involved, I can totally see how this gets carried away.

But I'd prefer to just remove the "credit" part, not impose restrictions on healthy gamblers. Honest question, would that make a difference?
 

That money goes to the house, they set the line to make money. That's it.

That other better you're imagining is losing long term too. He ain't winning...

They're not running all these ads and sponsorships and etc so they can give money from one gambler to another.
Ok, I replied to this post already, but I'd like to preface by saying I thought we were talking about betting on games, like over/under win totals, who wins each week, etc.

I'm not sure about daily fantasy or any of that stuff, so what you're saying could be completely correct about those types of bets.
 

Who then proceeds to give almost all of it to the other better. Yes, they do take a small cut, but that's far from "losing" to them. For example, if I bet $100 on the over and Joe Schmoe bets $100 on the under, if I lose and Joe Schmoe wins, the house takes my $100, keeps like $5 for themselves, and passes the other $95 onto Joe Schmoe. That's not "the house" winning, that's "Joe Schmoe" winning.

Saying the house wins in that situation is like saying eTrade wins when your stock goes down because you paid them a commission fee to purchase the stock.



Not to sound harsh, but you are wrong. They set the line to attract an equal amount of wagers on both sides. That's it. Vegas, nor online casinos, have absolutely no clue how many games each of the 100+ FBS teams are going to win. They pick a number they hope is close, and if too many gamblers are on one side, they adjust the number to get gamblers on the other side. They are 100% NOT trying to bet against the individual.



Someone is. For example, two years ago I had some bets in Vegas and I made hundreds of dollars. That money came from other betters betting on the same games as me, not the casino. Those betters lost their money to me, with the casino collecting a small fee for handling the bets.


Yes they are, and they collect a small fee in doing so. Just like eTrade for stocks, some people make money, some people lose money, but eTrade lives off the commissions.

Have you ever placed a bet before? I've been doing this for many years.
“small fee”

You seen that? Like actually understand the amounts of money involved?
 



Yeah, @upnorthkid kinda showed me the other side. I openly admit I was unaware you can use credit. That is nonsense. Thanks for correcting me. With credit involved, I can totally see how this gets carried away.

But I'd prefer to just remove the "credit" part, not impose restrictions on healthy gamblers. Honest question, would that make a difference?
It would, but I don't think you can do that. We're steadily moving away from a cash and check society and soon credit or debit is all you'll be able to use.

The practice of gambling, IMO, is predatory in nature. The odds are always against the player. I understand the draw and the excitement of winning, but it exists to make the house money. Kinda like credit cards, its an opportunistic practice that puts few limits on the user and permits gross debts that are sometimes nigh impossible to come back from. In our instant gratification society where temperance and self control are afterthoughts and there's such an emphasis on personal freedom, a pseudo financial serfdom to banks and creditors has been created.
 


Another good point! I don't have an addiction to it, as I have been happily enjoying sports betting for plenty of years now. But you make a great analogy. I've heard that it's hard for alcoholics sometimes to watch football because of beer commercials and the like, I just never paid much attention since I'm not one. But I can see your point on the enticement part. I wasn't enticed, I just made some bets and was successful and so just kept at it.

But I'm only coming from one perspective! Thanks for pointing out the other side.

I don’t know if you spreadsheet it like some of us OCDs might, but if you’ve been betting regularly for many years are you up or down? Statistically over many years and hundreds or thousands of data points it’s probably difficult for everyone to be above average.
 

“small fee”

You seen that? Like actually understand the amounts of money involved?
Yes, personally. With every bet I make. For example, in a previous post I mentioned making hundreds of dollars on Vegas casino bets in 2021. I don't remember the exact numbers, so I'll just use $100 as a placeholder. But for the record, each of my bets was probably between $150 and $300, I just don't recall exactly.

It went like this. I bet $100 on the Gophers winning more games than the over/under was set at. I won almost $100 profit but not quite, it was like $95. That $95 came from another better who placed $100 on the "under". After the bet was settled, the casino took the $100 from the other better, kept $5 for themselves, and gave me the other $95.

It was also like that for my bet on Nebraska being under.

Point is this, I made hundreds of dollars in profit, another better(s) lost hundreds of dollars, and the casino made like $20 off the totality of a few hundred dollars of our bets regarding MN and Nebraska in 2021.
 

I don’t know if you spreadsheet it like some of us OCDs might, but if you’ve been betting regularly for many years are you up or down? Statistically over many years and hundreds or thousands of data points it’s probably difficult for everyone to be above average.
I don't spreadsheet it, but I do track overall if I am up or down. (The reason I don't spreadsheet it is because the teams/styles change up so much that I don't value any data from previous seasons.) I was up pretty good early, slowly went into the negative for multiple years, and have been rather successful in the past few years.

(I changed up my philosophy big-time a couple years ago and now am hitting well over 50%.)
 
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It would, but I don't think you can do that. We're steadily moving away from a cash and check society and soon credit or debit is all you'll be able to use.

The practice of gambling, IMO, is predatory in nature. The odds are always against the player. I understand the draw and the excitement of winning, but it exists to make the house money. Kinda like credit cards, its an opportunistic practice that puts few limits on the user and permits gross debts that are sometimes nigh impossible to come back from. In our instant gratification society where temperance and self control are afterthoughts and there's such an emphasis on personal freedom, a pseudo financial serfdom to banks and creditors has been created.
If they only allowed debit cards, that would stop the debt, right? You have to have money in your account for the debit card to work, or has that changed too?

I'll admit this thread has opened my eyes a bit to a problem I was unaware of. I feel like someone who drinks beer but has no clue alcoholics exist. But there are so many similarities - like plenty of people use alcohol responsibly, maybe even having a beer at lunch during the work day. Then there are others... Hard to say what the safe and fair middle ground is, as I certainly disapprove of predatory behavior - whether it's banks loaning money out or casinos sucking in people who have no business being there.

Thanks for a collaborative and learning discussion! It's what threads are supposed to be for.
 

It would, but I don't think you can do that. We're steadily moving away from a cash and check society and soon credit or debit is all you'll be able to use.

The practice of gambling, IMO, is predatory in nature. The odds are always against the player. I understand the draw and the excitement of winning, but it exists to make the house money. Kinda like credit cards, its an opportunistic practice that puts few limits on the user and permits gross debts that are sometimes nigh impossible to come back from. In our instant gratification society where temperance and self control are afterthoughts and there's such an emphasis on personal freedom, a pseudo financial serfdom to banks and creditors has been created.

The thing of it is this - how many people are betting hundreds of dollars a week/month on sports (where we know Vegas takes a cut), and leaving their retirement accounts under accrued.
 

I don't spreadsheet it, but I do track overall if I am up or down. (The reason I don't spreadsheet it is because the teams/styles change up so much that I don't value any data from previous seasons.) I was up pretty good early, slowly went into the negative for multiple years, and have been rather successful in the past few years.

(I changed up my philosophy big-time a couple years ago and now am hitting well over 50%.)

OK, then probably fair to say this is for entertainment value rather than a legit money-making business. Personally losing money (even a few thousand by omission or commission) smarts far worse than the joy of wins for me. The dopamine hit of say, making tens of thousands doesn’t outweigh losses psychologically so I guess I have a natural aversion. It’s just how I’m wired. That may be a fundamental issue or contrast with the addiction-prone. The temporary highs for whatever variety of reasons offset the negatives on balance. I’ll bet for lunch and bragging rights. That’s about it.

You sound like you haven’t let it spin out of control. And I agree with some others that with the internet it’s virtually impossible to keep addicts from gambling. Tough problem. That said, making addiction “easy” for those wired that way is probably a bad idea.
 

Do you know of any place that allows you to make a bet without putting up the money first? I don't. Every sports bet I've made I've had to put the money up first, whether in a Vegas casino or online, and then I get paid out if I win the bet. In that system, how can anyone have a debt?

Now if you're talking about people making bets with "the mob" or whatever, I have no clue if you need to pay in advance, so maybe there you are right that a person could create a debt. But wouldn't legalized gambling be a way to prevent people from betting with the mob?
He's not talking about the sport's book, or bookies or loan sharks. He's talking about personal borrowing liquidity to gamble.

There's an even more pernicious side effect - crime. In my profession, I've encountered a number of businesses that have had employee embezzlement and gambling has almost always been the mea culpa.
 




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