Missed Opportunties-NDSU v. U of M

[Indi1006]

The legit NDSU discussion for this board is the missed opportunities on recruits and a head coach; which I know has been hashed out before ad nauseum but on the heels of yesterday's game seems to be fair game, again.

Billy Turner is way better than any OL on our team. Carleton Littlejohn and Grant Olson are much better playmakers than any LBers on our team. Zach Vraa has fought injuries but this year during our bowl game would have started and been our best WR option and clearly fights for the ball much better than any of our WRs who do our QBs few favors.

There are others:

Cole Jirik would fit right into our DL rotation and probably is a multi year starter and to me clearly plays against the run > than any of our DEs and Joe Lund probably is a three year starter for us at C.

Williams, Crockett and Perry I don't think warrant discussion because of academics.

I think most of these kids were on record as bleeding Maroon and Gold coming out of HS. We missed on them; period and I don't care about a lack of other BCS offers these are Minnesota kids from our back yard who would have likely helped us win more games the past several years.

A whole 'nother discussion is Bohl the head coach. He's been considered twice and passed over for our job. He would have run circules around Brew and is at least as good of an option as Kill. I like his offensive and defensive schemes and his kickers are even much better than ours have been the past six, seven years. I would love to have had him as our coach, in retrospect.

I have no love for the Bison; they were my biggest rival back in the '80s when I played in the NCC. That maybe makes it tougher for me to watch them have a level of success with players and arguably a head coach who wanted to be Gophers and likely would have put us in a much better position over the past half decade or more than we are in now.

Think of Grant, Alipate, Pride (add 10-15 other Gopher recruits from Mnwho have flopped the past 5-6 years), Brew et al; wow.

Can't help myself but to throw Marshall Bjorklund at NDSU inot the mix who would look great in a Gopher's uniform. I always thought he was the top kid his age in HS and he's proven it with a very solid college career for the Bison.

 

[GophersInIowa]

You may be right on some of them, but

1) It's easy to say that after the fact.
2) You're basing this off of much weaker competition. New Hampshire was a playoff team at that level and we beat them by 37.
3) No one ever seems to mention the "sleepers" the Gophers have been right about. Both those who ended up being good for the Gophers and those who many thought were a sleeper and ended up not doing very well at smaller schools.

I think just as much credit has to go to the coaches at NDSU who have done a great job developing a lot of these players. It's the hope that with the continuity of our coaching staff, they will be able to do that as well.

 

[Unregistered User]

I didn't realize that 119 other BCS schools were barred from recruiting and signing these players.

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

I didn't realize that 119 other BCS schools were barred from recruiting and signing these players.

Or taking away their coach.

 

[Unregistered User]

He would have run circules [sic] around Brew and is at least as good of an option as Kill.

There is no possible way that you can know this. None. Period. Paragraph.

You may believe that, but you can't declare that as an absolute.

 

[Dr.Don]

There is no possible way that you can know this. None. Period. Paragraph.

You may believe that, but you can't declare that as an absolute.

Since when did someone believing something on GopherHole not be an absolute fact?

 

[Kratos3]

Division 1AA. It makes a difference.

Billy Turner is very, very good though, and would probably be our LT.

 

[goldenman]

The legit NDSU discussion for this board is the missed opportunities on recruits and a head coach; which I know has been hashed out before ad nauseum but on the heels of yesterday's game seems to be fair game, again.

Billy Turner is way better than any OL on our team. Carleton Littlejohn and Grant Olson are much better playmakers than any LBers on our team. Zach Vraa has fought injuries but this year during our bowl game would have started and been our best WR option and clearly fights for the ball much better than any of our WRs who do our QBs few favors.

There are others:

Cole Jirik would fit right into our DL rotation and probably is a multi year starter and to me clearly plays against the run > than any of our DEs and Joe Lund probably is a three year starter for us at C.

Williams, Crockett and Perry I don't think warrant discussion because of academics.

I think most of these kids were on record as bleeding Maroon and Gold coming out of HS. We missed on them; period and I don't care about a lack of other BCS offers these are Minnesota kids from our back yard who would have likely helped us win more games the past several years.

A whole 'nother discussion is Bohl the head coach. He's been considered twice and passed over for our job. He would have run circules around Brew and is at least as good of an option as Kill. I like his offensive and defensive schemes and his kickers are even much better than ours have been the past six, seven years. I would love to have had him as our coach, in retrospect.

I have no love for the Bison; they were my biggest rival back in the '80s when I played in the NCC. That maybe makes it tougher for me to watch them have a level of success with players and arguably a head coach who wanted to be Gophers and likely would have put us in a much better position over the past half decade or more than we are in now.

Think of Grant, Alipate, Pride (add 10-15 other Gopher recruits from Mnwho have flopped the past 5-6 years), Brew et al; wow.

Can't help myself but to throw Marshall Bjorklund at NDSU inot the mix who would look great in a Gopher's uniform. I always thought he was the top kid his age in HS and he's proven it with a very solid college career for the Bison.

We would probably have the worst recruiting class in the history of the program if we recruited these guys out of high school. Most people are skeptical now about how are recruiting is now and now your saying that we should of recruited zero - 2 star recruits? Minnesota doesn't produce a lot of top notch talent for division I schools but it produces a lot of talent for all of the other divisions. Look at the MIAC and the NSIC conferences, and there some of the best football conferences for division III and II. It's too bad but that's just the way it is.

I'm happy with coach Kill and there are reasons why he is coaching here rather than Bohl.

Trust the Process

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

As you've already said, it's been talked about way too much on this board for a lot of people's liking.

I'm curious as to why you just feel this way about NDSU? There are plenty of players playing all over the country for lesser programs who would have absolutely accepted an offer from the U. Why are we only obsessing about the Bison? Every player on Norther Illinois would have chosen the Gophers if we offered and they played in a BCS Bowl game.

But since we're talking about these guys AGAIN, lets rehash what's always been said AGAIN:
Billy Turner is a really good player. He definitely would have been a starter at the U (and tons of other BCS schools who didn't offer). However, everyone missed on him because his HS coaches didn't get his info out to anyone. This is at least the story everyone has been rehashing for a long time, maybe it's accurate, maybe it's not. The fact is that he's a good ball player, and everyone missed on him. There is absolutely NO connection between him being good and the U, it's just one of those things that happens. Players slip through the cracks for a variety of reasons, he's one of them. Now, i'd be more annoyed with the U if John Harden turns into a monster DT (he had tons of film out, went to camps, had multiple MAC offers, etc).

Marcus Williams - Good ball player, questionable character things, it was why he didn't get offer. He turned it around, good for him. It's what a lot of D1AA is good for, letting the risk kids have a shot.

Vraa - I agree, he should have gotten an offer. Brew and every coach in the country missed on him.

Littlejohn - Same as Vraa.

Now can we at least wait to rehash this conversation until NDSU has some different players that we can through?

 

[STPGopher]

As you've already said, it's been talked about way too much on this board for a lot of people's liking.

I'm curious as to why you just feel this way about NDSU? There are plenty of players playing all over the country for lesser programs who would have absolutely accepted an offer from the U. Why are we only obsessing about the Bison? Every player on Norther Illinois would have chosen the Gophers if we offered and they played in a BCS Bowl game.

But since we're talking about these guys AGAIN, lets rehash what's always been said AGAIN:
Billy Turner is a really good player. He definitely would have been a starter at the U (and tons of other BCS schools who didn't offer). However, everyone missed on him because his HS coaches didn't get his info out to anyone. This is at least the story everyone has been rehashing for a long time, maybe it's accurate, maybe it's not. The fact is that he's a good ball player, and everyone missed on him. There is absolutely NO connection between him being good and the U, it's just one of those things that happens. Players slip through the cracks for a variety of reasons, he's one of them. Now, i'd be more annoyed with the U if John Harden turns into a monster DT (he had tons of film out, went to camps, had multiple MAC offers, etc).

Marcus Williams - Good ball player, questionable character things, it was why he didn't get offer. He turned it around, good for him. It's what a lot of D1AA is good for, letting the risk kids have a shot.

Vraa - I agree, he should have gotten an offer. Brew and every coach in the country missed on him.

Littlejohn - Same as Vraa.

Now can we at least wait to rehash this conversation until NDSU has some different players that we can through?

I am so glad you mentioned the coaches part. People have no idea how important it is for coaches to talk about their players or at least invite college coaches to watch film and or games.

 

[westcoastgopher11]

The legit NDSU discussion for this board is the missed opportunities on recruits and a head coach; which I know has been hashed out before ad nauseum but on the heels of yesterday's game seems to be fair game, again.

Shut. up.

 

[STPGopher]

The legit NDSU discussion for this board is the missed opportunities on recruits and a head coach; which I know has been hashed out before ad nauseum but on the heels of yesterday's game seems to be fair game, again.

Billy Turner is way better than any OL on our team. Carleton Littlejohn and Grant Olson are much better playmakers than any LBers on our team. Zach Vraa has fought injuries but this year during our bowl game would have started and been our best WR option and clearly fights for the ball much better than any of our WRs who do our QBs few favors.

There are others:

Cole Jirik would fit right into our DL rotation and probably is a multi year starter and to me clearly plays against the run > than any of our DEs and Joe Lund probably is a three year starter for us at C.

Williams, Crockett and Perry I don't think warrant discussion because of academics.

I think most of these kids were on record as bleeding Maroon and Gold coming out of HS. We missed on them; period and I don't care about a lack of other BCS offers these are Minnesota kids from our back yard who would have likely helped us win more games the past several years.

A whole 'nother discussion is Bohl the head coach. He's been considered twice and passed over for our job. He would have run circules around Brew and is at least as good of an option as Kill. I like his offensive and defensive schemes and his kickers are even much better than ours have been the past six, seven years. I would love to have had him as our coach, in retrospect.

I have no love for the Bison; they were my biggest rival back in the '80s when I played in the NCC. That maybe makes it tougher for me to watch them have a level of success with players and arguably a head coach who wanted to be Gophers and likely would have put us in a much better position over the past half decade or more than we are in now.

Think of Grant, Alipate, Pride (add 10-15 other Gopher recruits from Mnwho have flopped the past 5-6 years), Brew et al; wow.

Can't help myself but to throw Marshall Bjorklund at NDSU inot the mix who would look great in a Gopher's uniform. I always thought he was the top kid his age in HS and he's proven it with a very solid college career for the Bison.

You think we stink up the joint vs Nebraska now. Ask Nebraska fans about Bohl as DC. Even Solich canned him.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Best case we are where we are now with these players.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Division 1AA. It makes a difference.

Billy Turner is very, very good though, and would probably be our LT.

Williams and Turner are the two we missed on and probably the only two.

 

[Indi1006]

Not obsessing about NDSU; it's just kind of a perfect storm of Minnesota kids on their roster who I think could have helped us and would have loved to play for their home state program but didn't get an offer. I didn't go down the NDSU roster and pull out Wisconsin and ND kids, just the Minnesota ones.

Does anyone on here really think that Turner doesn't start at one of the tackle spots, Lund doesn't start at C over Christiansen, Vraa doesn't start as WR over pick one, Olson doesn't start over Rallis and Littlejohn doesn't start over Manuel, et al and Jirik isn't in our DL rotation if they're on our team when we t'd it up against TT?

 

[nc2mn]

Some players develop later than others. So Kill/Brew didn't project right on a few of the guys that went Bison. It happens. Get over it.

And as Bob_Loblaw suggests, let's hold this discussion till there it another batch of players. There'll always be some at UND, its part of the game. The only real issue is whether or not the players Kill DOES get improve the team, and I'm reasonably confident they will.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Not obsessing about NDSU; it's just kind of a perfect storm of Minnesota kids on their roster who I think could have helped us and would have loved to play for their home state program but didn't get an offer. I didn't go down the NDSU roster and pull out Wisconsin and ND kids, just the Minnesota ones.

Does anyone on here really think that Turner doesn't start at one of the tackle spots, Lund doesn't start at C over Christiansen, Vraa doesn't start as WR over pick one, Olson doesn't start over Rallis and Littlejohn doesn't start over Manuel, et al and Jirik isn't in our DL rotation if they're on our team when we t'd it up against TT?

Other than Turner, they are all likely even swaps at best.

 

[Mvgopher]

100% inaccurate on Billy Turners coaches. His dad was one of them and there was plenty of access following Weber. The gophs also missed on his brother Maurice. A gray shirt was the best offered at he BCS level and it was late.

 

[Ole]

Not obsessing about NDSU; it's just kind of a perfect storm of Minnesota kids on their roster who I think could have helped us and would have loved to play for their home state program but didn't get an offer. I didn't go down the NDSU roster and pull out Wisconsin and ND kids, just the Minnesota ones.

Does anyone on here really think that Turner doesn't start at one of the tackle spots, Lund doesn't start at C over Christiansen, Vraa doesn't start as WR over pick one, Olson doesn't start over Rallis and Littlejohn doesn't start over Manuel, et al and Jirik isn't in our DL rotation if they're on our team when we t'd it up against TT?

Turner wouldnt beat out Olson, and he had more than enough questions left to answer out of hs.
Remember that Gjere and SH were the top t
argets that class at OT.
The rest are solid role players at best in d1.
Congrats on their d2 championship, but this thread is pointless.

 

[mplsbadger]

A whole 'nother discussion is Bohl the head coach. He's been considered twice and passed over for our job. He would have run circules around Brew and is at least as good of an option as Kill. I like his offensive and defensive schemes and his kickers are even much better than ours have been the past six, seven years. I would love to have had him as our coach, in retrospect.

The Badgers tried hiring a national champion coach from NDSU. It didn't work out so well.

 

[btowngopher]

The legit NDSU discussion for this board is the missed opportunities on recruits and a head coach; which I know has been hashed out before ad nauseum but on the heels of yesterday's game seems to be fair game, again.

Billy Turner is way better than any OL on our team. Carleton Littlejohn and Grant Olson are much better playmakers than any LBers on our team. Zach Vraa has fought injuries but this year during our bowl game would have started and been our best WR option and clearly fights for the ball much better than any of our WRs who do our QBs few favors.

There are others:

Cole Jirik would fit right into our DL rotation and probably is a multi year starter and to me clearly plays against the run > than any of our DEs and Joe Lund probably is a three year starter for us at C.

Williams, Crockett and Perry I don't think warrant discussion because of academics.

I think most of these kids were on record as bleeding Maroon and Gold coming out of HS. We missed on them; period and I don't care about a lack of other BCS offers these are Minnesota kids from our back yard who would have likely helped us win more games the past several years.

A whole 'nother discussion is Bohl the head coach. He's been considered twice and passed over for our job. He would have run circules around Brew and is at least as good of an option as Kill. I like his offensive and defensive schemes and his kickers are even much better than ours have been the past six, seven years. I would love to have had him as our coach, in retrospect.

I have no love for the Bison; they were my biggest rival back in the '80s when I played in the NCC. That maybe makes it tougher for me to watch them have a level of success with players and arguably a head coach who wanted to be Gophers and likely would have put us in a much better position over the past half decade or more than we are in now.

Think of Grant, Alipate, Pride (add 10-15 other Gopher recruits from Mnwho have flopped the past 5-6 years), Brew et al; wow.

Can't help myself but to throw Marshall Bjorklund at NDSU inot the mix who would look great in a Gopher's uniform. I always thought he was the top kid his age in HS and he's proven it with a very solid college career for the Bison.

There it is...

 

[btowngopher]

NDSU has 31 players from MN on it's roster. Gophers have 43 MN players, over half of which are walk-ons.

 

[John Galt]

You can add all of the NDSU players we supposedly "missed" on to the current Gopher roster, and here is how many more games we would have won this year: Zero. A few of them might provide some decent depth, nothing more.

 

[e.bigelow]

You can add all of the NDSU players we supposedly "missed" on to the current Gopher roster, and here is how many more games we would have won this year: Zero. A few of them might provide some decent depth, nothing more.

+1. Exactly. We could go through a number of teams with players we supposedly "missed on". The fact is, those players got to where they are at for a reason. Whether those reasons being academic issues in HS, i.e. Didn't really care to focus on their studies at the HS level, charecter issues or just lesser talented players when they were in HS. I think a lot of credit has to be given to the Bison coaching staff for the job they are doing.

And, when we are taking players with these academic and charecter issues, whether it be in football or b-ball, and there are a number of examples, people will moan and groan about when those players are kicked off the team as well. So, we could sit and do this all day. Quite frankly, a thread like this is pointless. But, I guess that is what GH is for.

 

[Sportsfan24]

The legit NDSU discussion for this board is the missed opportunities on recruits and a head coach; which I know has been hashed out before ad nauseum but on the heels of yesterday's game seems to be fair game, again.

Billy Turner is way better than any OL on our team. Carleton Littlejohn and Grant Olson are much better playmakers than any LBers on our team. Zach Vraa has fought injuries but this year during our bowl game would have started and been our best WR option and clearly fights for the ball much better than any of our WRs who do our QBs few favors.

There are others:

Cole Jirik would fit right into our DL rotation and probably is a multi year starter and to me clearly plays against the run > than any of our DEs and Joe Lund probably is a three year starter for us at C.

Williams, Crockett and Perry I don't think warrant discussion because of academics.

I think most of these kids were on record as bleeding Maroon and Gold coming out of HS. We missed on them; period and I don't care about a lack of other BCS offers these are Minnesota kids from our back yard who would have likely helped us win more games the past several years.

A whole 'nother discussion is Bohl the head coach. He's been considered twice and passed over for our job. He would have run circules around Brew and is at least as good of an option as Kill. I like his offensive and defensive schemes and his kickers are even much better than ours have been the past six, seven years. I would love to have had him as our coach, in retrospect.

I have no love for the Bison; they were my biggest rival back in the '80s when I played in the NCC. That maybe makes it tougher for me to watch them have a level of success with players and arguably a head coach who wanted to be Gophers and likely would have put us in a much better position over the past half decade or more than we are in now.

Think of Grant, Alipate, Pride (add 10-15 other Gopher recruits from Mnwho have flopped the past 5-6 years), Brew et al; wow.

Can't help myself but to throw Marshall Bjorklund at NDSU inot the mix who would look great in a Gopher's uniform. I always thought he was the top kid his age in HS and he's proven it with a very solid college career for the Bison.

Marcus Williams will graduate from college early and there have been worse academic challenges before that suited in the marroon and gold.

 

[Sportsfan24]

You can add all of the NDSU players we supposedly "missed" on to the current Gopher roster, and here is how many more games we would have won this year: Zero. A few of them might provide some decent depth, nothing more.

You my friend are flat out wrong. There are kids on this roster (and past rosters under other coaches) that are complete garbage as football players. There are starters on the gopher roster that would not see any playing time at NDSU. The gophers are deeper (mediocre talent) but if you compare talent amongst the starters, I would give the nod to the gophers, but its closer than it should be.

FYI: Marcus Williams would most definitely have started for the gophers, him and Carter would have made a nice tandem.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Marcus Williams will graduate from college early and there have been worse academic challenges before that suited in the marroon and gold.

Yeah, I think Marcus Williams can be considered a 1/2 miss. I think the staff was concerned about his academics (probably rightfully so) and didn't think he was a good enough talent to have to deal with their concerns (the miss part). He is talented enough to take the risk on, as you stated, their have been plenty of Gophers with less talent who had bigger academic questions.

That said, if a staff is leery about a kid's academics, I can't fault them for passing. Attrition kills programs, especially programs rebuilding.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

You my friend are flat out wrong. There are kids on this roster (and past rosters under other coaches) that are complete garbage as football players. There are starters on the gopher roster that would not see any playing time at NDSU. The gophers are deeper (mediocre talent) but if you compare talent amongst the starters, I would give the nod to the gophers, but its closer than it should be.

FYI: Marcus Williams would most definitely have started for the gophers, him and Carter would have made a nice tandem.

I think Turner, Littlejohn, , Olson and Williams would have all been starters or seen significant PT. I think it could have resulted in another win. I definitely think they would have helped in games against NWestern (our only game we lost close).

But again, that's an impossible standard to hold any coach to, everyone is going to miss on players. Good Div !AA programs have always existed because sometimes good football programs, all of them, don't realize a talent.

 

[Sportsfan24]

I think Turner, Littlejohn, , Olson and Williams would have all been starters or seen significant PT. I think it could have resulted in another win. I definitely think they would have helped in games against NWestern (our only game we lost close).

But again, that's an impossible standard to hold any coach to, everyone is going to miss on players. Good Div !AA programs have always existed because sometimes good football programs, all of them, don't realize a talent.

Kill as the gopher coach is going to hurt NDSU and the other Dakota schools because he will not miss out on has many players as his predeccesors. He has spent his career recruiting this type of talent and competing with or beating schools like Minnesota that didn't. The best gopher football players on average have been Mn kids. We can win with Mn kids (not saying all), it's the non playing stiffs (yes I'm being harsh) from out of state that has been the reasons why this program can't get over the top.

The first coach that duplicates Wisconsin and figures out a way to get the top 15-20 football players out of Mn every year will have the next stadium named after him.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Kill as the gopher coach is going to hurt NDSU and the other Dakota schools because he will not miss out on has many players as his predeccesors. He has spent his career recruiting this type of talent and competing with or beating schools like Minnesota that didn't. The best gopher football players on average have been Mn kids. We can win with Mn kids (not saying all), it's the non playing stiffs (yes I'm being harsh) from out of state that has been the reasons why this program can't get over the top.

The first coach that duplicates Wisconsin and figures out a way to get the top 15-20 football players out of Mn every year will have the next stadium named after him.

I hope you're right and I am somewhat optimistic that you hit the nail on the head. However, Kill has passed on some MN kids in the last couple years who were much more heavily recruited than the kids who ended up at NDSU. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but Kill passed on Jack Cottrell this season (didn't offer) and he plays a position of desperate need, Kill passed on Harden last year despite being one of the most dominant DT's in the state's history, and even Cody Hazelett who ended up at Northern Illinois.

The issue is that if these kids go on to be good football players at the college level, we won't hear about as much as if they went to NDSU.