Michigan pulls offer from longtime OL recruit weeks before signing day

[oleboy41]

If kids take other visits, there is no ethical problem in pulling their offer if they previously said they were committed.

So is it wrong if a school tells a kid they're only taking 1 kid at their position but continues to recruit or stay in contact with other players at said position after the kid commits? A commitment is supposedly a 2 way street

 

[Unregistered User]

Did he and harbaugh get into a fight during a sleepover or something?

 

[Section2]

you mean the narrative that kids playing the recruiting game doesn't make them bad people? Ok!

No, the narrative that everyone is fine with schools playing dirty, and only blames kids. Most of the posts before yours were of people objecting to Michigan's actions in this case. Those posts were inconvenient to your narrative, thus my statement that you seem to be "defending the narrative at all costs.".

 

[oleboy41]

No, the narrative that everyone is fine with schools playing dirty, and only blames kids. Most of the posts before yours were of people objecting to Michigan's actions in this case. Those posts were inconvenient to your narrative, thus my statement that you seem to be "defending the narrative at all costs.".

I don't have a narrative nor would it be that 'everyone' does anything. I specifically push back against the idea by anyone that kids playing the recruiting game makes them bad people. I've never claimed that 'everyone' thinks any particular way. But by all means feel free to misconstrue what I say however you feel.

 

[Section2]

All of your 'rights and wrongs' are purely subjective based on your own moral code regarding recruiting, a process with little morals involved. I could argue its wrong for adults getting paid to run sites to hound high school kids about deeply personal and important decisions. I could argue its dumb to label what a kid says to a professional reporter 'wrong' when the kids face all sorts of pressures to say the right thing to the right people knowing everything you say will be reported. I could also argue that its not wrong for a school to pull a kids scholly if they get new interest from a prospect they deem better because their jobs are dependent upon them getting the best talent. Everyone has their own standards of how they do or theoretically would handle the process but its silly IMO to judge from afar outside of a few outliers as the entire process is truly amoral

The right thing to do is the hard thing to do, and its understandable that kids play the game to get the best possible option for them. I really don't fault them for it. I do fault schools for pulling offers. I think most people probably feel that way to some extent. I think what people don't like is kids who seem to enjoy the drama, and kids who repeatedly say things that they know are lies. For example,It's one thing to say that you are solid to ABC school, even though you might think that if a helmet school offers you would take it. Based on your current situation, ABC school is the best offer and fit for you, and if that changes, your mind might change.

It's another thing to say you are solid to ABC school, even though you have absolutely no intention of signing there. Fans of teams are always going to be upset when a commit flips. But sometimes it's understandable, and some times it seems like the kid was completely lying and playing games. I think we're pretty much talking about the latter, and I dont' know your moral code, but that doesn't seem very subjective to me.

 

[Section2]

I don't have a narrative nor would it be that 'everyone' does anything. I specifically push back against the idea by anyone that kids playing the recruiting game makes them bad people. I've never claimed that 'everyone' thinks any particular way. But by all means feel free to misconstrue what I say however you feel.

Yes, you do have a narrative (bolded) and proven when you respond to these posts:

That's way late to pull an offer........

I know it is part of the process but that is tough. I'd get it when Harbaugh was hired because this kid committed when Hoke was still the coach, but not this late.

Back up plan is one thing but chopping this late can dork up any plan.

With this post

Good. If that kid had decommitted it would've been a sign that he's a terrible person that has no honor or respect and comes from an immoral family. But the school did it so its ok

In other words, no one was saying it was ok, and then you jump in and accuse people generally of holding a double standard. That is sticking to your narrative in the face of evidence.

 

[oleboy41]

Yes, you do have a narrative (bolded) and proven when you respond to these posts:








With this post



In other words, no one was saying it was ok, and then you jump in and accuse people generally of holding a double standard. That is sticking to your narrative in the face of evidence.

Only thing I was responding to was the original post. If I'm responding to other post I'd quote them. That's what the quote option is for. Am I now responding to every post in this thread? No I'm responding to you. Its a message board. You can share a thought/comment on the original post without responding to each post before it. Thought you understood that but guess not

 

[oleboy41]

The right thing to do is the hard thing to do, and its understandable that kids play the game to get the best possible option for them. I really don't fault them for it. I do fault schools for pulling offers. I think most people probably feel that way to some extent. I think what people don't like is kids who seem to enjoy the drama, and kids who repeatedly say things that they know are lies. For example,It's one thing to say that you are solid to ABC school, even though you might think that if a helmet school offers you would take it. Based on your current situation, ABC school is the best offer and fit for you, and if that changes, your mind might change.

It's another thing to say you are solid to ABC school, even though you have absolutely no intention of signing there. Fans of teams are always going to be upset when a commit flips. But sometimes it's understandable, and some times it seems like the kid was completely lying and playing games. I think we're pretty much talking about the latter, and I dont' know your moral code, but that doesn't seem very subjective to me.

Overall I agree with you. My main thought/point when it comes to this is that the problem isn't really with the recruits, its with the fans. The only reason they're making statements is because reporters ask them because fans pay money to sites to get recruiting info. So fans create the environment that provides the kids attention yet don't like when kids enjoy it. That's a bit backwards. And a bit hypocritical. 'I'm willing to pay money to follow your recruitment but I have a problem if you actually seem to like the attention or give an inconsistent narrative to the 15 reporters from 7 different fanbases from 3 different websites.' Its all hypocritical. Thats why I say this is an amoral process. Nobody that gets offended by what the kid says or if he lies actually cares about that kid as an individual so everyone should get over themselves and off their high horses about the whole thing. And the kids are in a lose lose situation anyway. If they're honest it hurts their ability to keep their options open. If they lie they're demonized. The best option is to really not say a word to anyone but even then people stalk their Twitter feed and get up in arms because one day they're rooting for 1 team in a bowl game and the next week being excited about a visit to another. They can't win and the people that make it so they can't win are so called adults

 

[Nate]

Did he and harbaugh get into a fight during a sleepover or something?

It was a pillow fight. The kid thought they were supposed be using feather pillows, but then Harbaugh clocked him with an un-fluffed MyPillow.

 

[GophersInIowa]

If kids take other visits, there is no ethical problem in pulling their offer if they previously said they were committed.

I understand. I just hadn't heard anything about the Gophers pulling their offers. Maybe it happened, I just was not aware it has been reported.

 

[Section2]

'I'm willing to pay money to follow your recruitment but I have a problem if you actually seem to like the attention or give an inconsistent narrative to the 15 reporters from 7 different fanbases from 3 different websites.' Its all hypocritical.

I don't see the hypocrisy. I'm interested in following recruiting, I appreciate honesty. I don't really care if a kid isn't honest, it doesn't affect me in the least, but my opinion is that I don't like dishonest kids. They're demonized by the fan base they scorned, they are adored by the fan base they signed with. I don't see this as a huge injustice. If they handle things better, they don't have to upset anyone. I don't see how this is that hard.

They can't win? Man, between this and the "not getting enough compensation for playing college football", it must be awful to be a D1 athlete.

 

[Section2]

Only thing I was responding to was the original post. If I'm responding to other post I'd quote them. That's what the quote option is for. Am I now responding to every post in this thread? No I'm responding to you. Its a message board. You can share a thought/comment on the original post without responding to each post before it. Thought you understood that but guess not

Your post was a straw man.

 

[Lordshawesome]

So has the question, as to whether or not we have a shot, actually been answered?...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[oleboy41]

Your post was a straw man.

It was a sarcastic statement. Quit looking so deep into it

I don't see the hypocrisy. I'm interested in following recruiting, I appreciate honesty. I don't really care if a kid isn't honest, it doesn't affect me in the least, but my opinion is that I don't like dishonest kids. They're demonized by the fan base they scorned, they are adored by the fan base they signed with. I don't see this as a huge injustice. If they handle things better, they don't have to upset anyone. I don't see how this is that hard.

They can't win? Man, between this and the "not getting enough compensation for playing college football", it must be awful to be a D1 athlete.

I'm sure you don't agree but to me there's potentially a large difference between a kid being a dishonest person to those around him versus being dishonest to the media in a situation where honesty may be detrimental to his future, also in a situation where there are no intrinsic morals involved. And to me its very hypocritical to create a culture based on the words of teenagers and then be upset when they handle things like teenagers which is to say inconsistently and sometimes poorly. But you're free to feel however you want. I'll continue to call people childish who get mad at teenagers over this sort of thing because it is, in fact, childish

 

[dpodoll68]

I'm sure you don't agree but to me there's potentially a large difference between a kid being a dishonest person to those around him versus being dishonest to the media in a situation where honesty may be detrimental to his future, also in a situation where there are no intrinsic morals involved. And to me its very hypocritical to create a culture based on the words of teenagers and then be upset when they handle things like teenagers which is to say inconsistently and sometimes poorly. But you're free to feel however you want. I'll continue to call people childish who get mad at teenagers over this sort of thing because it is, in fact, childish

Honesty is honesty, regardless of context. Being highly recruited doesn't give them carte blanche to stretch the truth and/or outright lie. There are intrinsic morals involved in every situation.

 

[Section2]

It was a sarcastic statement. Quit looking so deep into it



I'm sure you don't agree but to me there's potentially a large difference between a kid being a dishonest person to those around him versus being dishonest to the media in a situation where honesty may be detrimental to his future, also in a situation where there are no intrinsic morals involved. And to me its very hypocritical to create a culture based on the words of teenagers and then be upset when they handle things like teenagers which is to say inconsistently and sometimes poorly. But you're free to feel however you want. I'll continue to call people childish who get mad at teenagers over this sort of thing because it is, in fact, childish

I don't think you do anyone any favors for apologizing for bad behavior. It should be called out when schools and coaches exhibit bad behavior, and absolutely by teenagers. its a pretty painless life lesson.

 

[gopher7]

This apparently happened again to a second Michigan recruit. Is it heartless? Yeah. But after reading this paragraph I actually am kind of ok with it. If players are doing it, then why not the coaches? Hopefully this kind of non-sense now from both sides will fast track the implementation of an early signing period.

The problem starts with the language of recruiting. Words like "offer" and "commitment" mean different things to different parties. Some recruits use a commitment as a placeholder. They secure a spot on one roster while continuing to shop for something better. Harbaugh’s staff has done the same since coming to Michigan, offering scholarships to prospects while continuing to look for someone more talented to replace them.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/129973/129973

 

[GophersInIowa]

This apparently happened again to a second Michigan recruit. Is it heartless? Yeah. But after reading this paragraph I actually am kind of ok with it. If players are doing it, then why not the coaches? Hopefully this kind of non-sense now from both sides will fast track the implementation of an early signing period.



http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/129973/129973

Yeah, again I don't have a problem with it in general because it happens on both sides. I agree it is part of the process.

What sucks about the situation with the o-lineman is that:
1. He committed over 2 years ago and it sounds like he shut down his recruiting after that
2. It happened so close to signing day. Because it is so close, he may not have as many options as he would have had several months ago.
3. It sounds like Harbaugh didn't even have the guts to explain the situation to him.

 

[bemidjigopher]

Yeah, again I don't have a problem with it in general because it happens on both sides. I agree it is part of the process.

What sucks about the situation with the o-lineman is that:
1. He committed over 2 years ago and it sounds like he shut down his recruiting after that
2. It happened so close to signing day. Because it is so close, he may not have as many options as he would have had several months ago.
3. It sounds like Harbaugh didn't even have the guts to explain the situation to him.

He was too busy spooning with a kicker or "Netflix and chill" with other recruits

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

MGoBlog pretty well describes the situation:

http://mgoblog.com/content/pick-damn-phone

Dropping a dude is ok, this late, this way, not cool. Earlier would have been no problem.

 

[Mulligan]

at the risk of sounding cynical, "ethics" and "recruiting" are two words that I would never use in the same sentence - at least not when you're talking about a major D1 school.

Schools oversign - they pull offers - they make promises to recruits about playing time knowing those promises may be empty.

recruits accept official visits to schools, get wined and dined, when in reality they may have no interest in attending that school. Recruits make verbal commitments, then renege on those commitments if they get a "better" offer.

Both sides play games - why? Money. Coaches make big bucks to put a winning team on the field, and they need to land the best recruits to keep their jobs. And recruits are hoping to put themselves in a situation where they have the best chance of going pro, so they can earn the big bucks.

Recruiting is an ugly process. Obsess over recruiting at your own risk.

As usual, SON cuts to the core.