Miami basketball player publicly threatens to transfer if his NIL deal is not increased after a new transfer in to Miami got a higher deal

Gophers_4life

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There is nothing preventing the NCAA from playing hardball on NIL. They punted at a time a handful of states (given “big” football states mostly) had passed NIL legislation. The NCAA could have punished those schools in those states, but chose to not only do nothing, but washed their hands of it entirely bringing CFB to it’s current state. The stated reason was IIRC saber rattling from the Supreme Court after the Alston case. Emmert’s retirement seems to be a white flag amateurism is dead.

The problem with legislation will be where to set the line. Same with transfers. If you buy into the idea players are used and “slaves” then reimposing a one year penalty after a transfer is clearly a non-starter. The whole idea is allowing players to make as much money as they can, any way they can.
I know the bolded is just proposing what some will say about it, so that is fine. I believe they will say that.

But I don't buy either of those, for a second. Nor do I believe a lot of people do.


A loud, angry numerical minority (careful not to make it about race), shouldn't get to dictate to the numerical majority, just because they're loud and angry.
 

Gophers_4life

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Sometimes you don’t see the left hook until it’s too late


NCPA Takes Next Step Toward College Athletes Being Classified As Employees​


On Tuesday, the National College Players Association filed unfair labor practice charges with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) against the NCAA office, the Pac-12 Conference and California schools USC and UCLA as single and joint employers of FBS football players and Division I men’s and women’s basketball players. The goal is to affirm employee status for D-I basketball players and FBS football players.


…Many administrators balk at the idea of turning college athletes into employees, but several know what’s coming, says Tom McMillen, the president of Lead1, a D.C.-based organization that represents the FBS athletic directors.

“Quite frankly, this could happen very quickly,” McMillen says. “Right now about 90% of my schools would resist, but you could have a whole division of college sports and run it like a business.”

Some administrators believe the solution lies in the nation’s capital, where a Congressional bill could lay a legal path for schools to provide athletes collective bargaining rights and even revenue-sharing provisions. Others suggest that, maybe, higher education and college athletics are headed for divorce.

“Everybody wants college football and basketball to be part of higher education,” one administrator told Sports Illustrated in the fall. “I don’t know if we can sustain it.”


The NCPA is not (yet) a union representing, for example, all P5 football players.

So how can it have standing to file anything?
 

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The NCPA is not (yet) a union representing, for example, all P5 football players.

So how can it have standing to file anything?
I would assume there is no requirement to be representing all P5 football players in order to be able to file with the NLRB.
 

Gophers_4life

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I would assume there is no requirement to be representing all P5 football players in order to be able to file with the NLRB.
So, you don't have to be a union at all? Hmm ...

I would be fine with it if they just represented say the PAC conference players. Or even just a single school's worth of players.

But they have like, a handful(?) of players scattered across the country and sports?
 

MNVCGUY

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Agree with those saying the free transfer needs to go away in this current NIL environment. Won't solve all the issues but will at the very least remove some booster tampering with another teams roster in order to get a player to come help "his" team out right away.
 


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The NCPA is not (yet) a union representing, for example, all P5 football players.

So how can it have standing to file anything?

My read on it is if the NLRB successfully reclassifies the private school players as employees that will spark momentum and public outcry for legislation (and more litigation) for public school union employee status collective bargaining. That’s when things really go into the ditch even moreso than right now. Some will cheer but CFB as we know it will be gone, if it isn’t already. Plenty of people looking for a piece of the pie, beyond the players.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Agree with those saying the free transfer needs to go away in this current NIL environment. Won't solve all the issues but will at the very least remove some booster tampering with another teams roster in order to get a player to come help "his" team out right away.
My concern is:

The free transfer thing is the right thing to do....

The only thing restricting that will do is hurt players NOT getting NIL money. NIL guy is going to give no fucks and still get paid for sitting a year. Non NIL guy is the one who has a bigger burden if a free transfer isn't allowed.
 

MNVCGUY

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My concern is:

The free transfer thing is the right thing to do....

The only thing restricting that will do is hurt players NOT getting NIL money. NIL guy is going to give no fucks and still get paid for sitting a year. Non NIL guy is the one who has a bigger burden if a free transfer isn't allowed.
I agree but this is the corner they have been painted into in football and basketball if they want to try and manage this at all. The NIL people just tossing out handouts aren't going to want to do that nearly as much if it means the player has to sit for a year. They want that instant gratification of putting a winner on the field.

Doesn't solve the issue but would eliminate at least some of the tampering that is no doubt going on right now.

To me, players should get a free transfer if their head coach is fired or leaves. If the coach stays and they want to leave then they should have to sit out a year unless they are a grad transfer.
 

short ornery norwegian

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I would assume there is no requirement to be representing all P5 football players in order to be able to file with the NLRB.
I think the argument goes something like this:

College FB players are already de facto employees of the schools - at least at the major D1 level.
The Colleges' argument is that "they're not employees because we say they're not employees."
The purpose of legal action would be to have a court declare that players are, in fact, "employees" under the legal definition of the term, and therefore have the right to collective bargaining, etc.
 



WAGopher

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Agree with those saying the free transfer needs to go away in this current NIL environment. Won't solve all the issues but will at the very least remove some booster tampering with another teams roster in order to get a player to come help "his" team out right away.
Right now I think the one free transfer should stay. Right now it seems a mess because of all the 6th year players that want to move. Also, it is still new and the downsides to entering the portal are not fully known. We do see that a large number of players don’t get picked by another team

Also, the NIL is warping the portal by making tampering easier. Without the portal, NIL would be targeting freshman recruits and grad students. Now they can target any player.

One improvement for the portal would be to make certain that there is only one free transfer, and once a player uses it, they can never transfer again without sitting out for 12 months. No medical, no grad, nada.

So I wouldn’t end the portal just yet, but wait to see how it all works after the six year players are gone.
 

Gophers_4life

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My concern is:

The free transfer thing is the right thing to do....

The only thing restricting that will do is hurt players NOT getting NIL money. NIL guy is going to give no fucks and still get paid for sitting a year. Non NIL guy is the one who has a bigger burden if a free transfer isn't allowed.
So make the free transfer dependent on not receiving more than $X NIL during the following school year.
 

Gophers_4life

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Right now I think the one free transfer should stay. Right now it seems a mess because of all the 6th year players that want to move. Also, it is still new and the downsides to entering the portal are not fully known. We do see that a large number of players don’t get picked by another team

Also, the NIL is warping the portal by making tampering easier. Without the portal, NIL would be targeting freshman recruits and grad students. Now they can target any player.

One improvement for the portal would be to make certain that there is only one free transfer, and once a player uses it, they can never transfer again without sitting out for 12 months. No medical, no grad, nada.

So I wouldn’t end the portal just yet, but wait to see how it all works after the six year players are gone.
Do you really think Oregon only tampered with and induced Irving to transfer to Eugene after they saw he was in the portal?

Come on now ...
 

WAGopher

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Do you really think Oregon only tampered with and induced Irving to transfer to Eugene after they saw he was in the portal?

Come on now ...
Neither of us know if or who may have tampered with him. Irving was in the portal for a long time before he signed with Oregon. You’d think he would have signed faster with them if there was an agreement beforehand.

The open NIL money is making it easier to tamper and attract recruits. Before if a kid was driving an expensive car, it would be a red flag. Now, it’s not.

The one free transfer won’t wreck college sports. But, the unfettered NIL money is. That is where restrictions need to be placed.

I get that some people think college athletes should be paid for their service. However, without NIL money they already are. At Minnesota, an out of state scholarship football player receives a little over $100,000 each year in services and cash. Here’s how it breaks down:

$48,000 Basic tuition, books, room and board
$4,000 annual stipend for other expenses
$50,000 (estimation) Professional coaching, tutoring, training table, medical, training and rehab, entertainment, counseling, etc.

The annual tuition, books and living expenses is from the University’s website. The annual $4,000 is the current NCAA maximum, which the B1G has approved, so I’m confident the Gophers pay it.

$100,000 per year is already a huge payout to each player. Of course only $4,000 is in cash. I’d like to see that number increased to cover trips to home, etc.
 



Gophers_4life

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Neither of us know if or who may have tampered with him. Irving was in the portal for a long time before he signed with Oregon. You’d think he would have signed faster with them if there was an agreement beforehand.
Good point.

But I could counter with: they know it will look bad if he signs right a way, that would be too obvious, so they put in an artificial delay.

The open NIL money is making it easier to tamper and attract recruits. Before if a kid was driving an expensive car, it would be a red flag. Now, it’s not.

The one free transfer won’t wreck college sports. But, the unfettered NIL money is. That is where restrictions need to be placed.

I get that some people think college athletes should be paid for their service. However, without NIL money they already are. At Minnesota, an out of state scholarship football player receives a little over $100,000 each year in services and cash. Here’s how it breaks down:

$48,000 Basic tuition, books, room and board
$4,000 annual stipend for other expenses
$50,000 (estimation) Professional coaching, tutoring, training table, medical, training and rehab, entertainment, counseling, etc.

The annual tuition, books and living expenses is from the University’s website. The annual $4,000 is the current NCAA maximum, which the B1G has approved, so I’m confident the Gophers pay it.

$100,000 per year is already a huge payout to each player. Of course only $4,000 is in cash. I’d like to see that number increased to cover trips to home, etc.
Agree with everything said here.

Will also add: playing at a P5 is one of the best possible ways to develop yourself into your best chance to play in the NFL, and then make your money there.

So it was like "paying your dues in the minor league".



In some ways, it feels like Double-A minor ballplayers demanding that they get paid while in the minors, from all the riches of the guys up in the big league.
 

Pompous Elitist

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Neither of us know if or who may have tampered with him. Irving was in the portal for a long time before he signed with Oregon. You’d think he would have signed faster with them if there was an agreement beforehand.

The open NIL money is making it easier to tamper and attract recruits. Before if a kid was driving an expensive car, it would be a red flag. Now, it’s not.

The one free transfer won’t wreck college sports. But, the unfettered NIL money is. That is where restrictions need to be placed.

I get that some people think college athletes should be paid for their service. However, without NIL money they already are. At Minnesota, an out of state scholarship football player receives a little over $100,000 each year in services and cash. Here’s how it breaks down:

$48,000 Basic tuition, books, room and board
$4,000 annual stipend for other expenses
$50,000 (estimation) Professional coaching, tutoring, training table, medical, training and rehab, entertainment, counseling, etc.

The annual tuition, books and living expenses is from the University’s website. The annual $4,000 is the current NCAA maximum, which the B1G has approved, so I’m confident the Gophers pay it.

$100,000 per year is already a huge payout to each player. Of course only $4,000 is in cash. I’d like to see that number increased to cover trips to home, etc.

I think the concept of opportunity cost and compound returns (particularly at a young age) in relation to the generous scholarship money and cost of attendance is lost on most. It adds up to a lot more than just the total cost of admission over time.
 



Gophers_4life

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I think the concept of opportunity cost and compound returns (particularly at a young age) in relation to the generous scholarship money and cost of attendance is lost on most. It adds up to a lot more than just the total cost of admission over time.
And let us not overlook that a lot of these P5 are quite fantastic schools in their own right, that are very difficult to get into!

Ask MN high school parents of the past X years about how hard it is to actually get into the U (Twin Cities) as an undergrad! Yeah you can, if you've got great test scores and grades. But it is tough. Not at all like applying to MNSCU.

But even a PWO to a team, gets admitted. And it's not like they pull the rug out from under you, if you decide to hang it up after the first year. So that right there, can be worth quite a bit.
 

Gophers_4life

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Nonsense, in my opinion.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if boosters from all kinds of top schools were in his family's ear about how much money Bucky could make, if he would choose to transfer to XYZ school.

Zero proof, we'll never know. But I would believe it.
 

Pompous Elitist

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And let us not overlook that a lot of these P5 are quite fantastic schools in their own right, that are very difficult to get into!

Ask MN high school parents of the past X years about how hard it is to actually get into the U (Twin Cities) as an undergrad! Yeah you can, if you've got great test scores and grades. But it is tough. Not at all like applying to MNSCU.

But even a PWO to a team, gets admitted. And it's not like they pull the rug out from under you, if you decide to hang it up after the first year. So that right there, can be worth quite a bit.

UMN AFAIK no longer requires standardized (undergraduate) test scores. I pity the admissions personnel trying to make heads or tails of GPAs with widespread GPA stringency variance. That said, the “aura” of certain institutions will probably remain for some time particularly among older individuals. GPA and other factors, interviews aren’t completely worthless. I don’t know if the graduate and professional programs will require MCAT, LSAT and so on. I can imagine those going away in favor of interview, other factors?
 
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UMN AFAIK no longer requires standardized (undergraduate) test scores. I pity the admissions personnel trying to make heads or tails of GPAs with widespread GPA stringency variance. That said, the “aura” of certain institutions will probably remain for some time particularly among older individuals. GPA and other factors, interviews aren’t completely worthless. I don’t know if the graduate and professional programs will require MCAT, LSAT and so on. I can imagine those going away in favor of interview, other factors?
They waived the ACT requirement temporarily due to all the COVID-related interruptions to education, testing, test prep, etc. Not sure if/when they will bring it back. I don't think they ever said the requirement is gone for good.
 

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They waived the ACT requirement temporarily due to all the COVID-related interruptions to education, testing, test prep, etc. Not sure if/when they will bring it back. I don't think they ever said the requirement is gone for good.

I expect it will be permanent as this was (somewhat randomly) extended to 2025, and eliminating standardized scores has been a trend amongst former highly selective institutions. They will still be selective but will utilize other criteria. The idea/rationale for why belongs more on the off topic board. Fair to argue. The pendulum swings.
 

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(I think this has defacto become the "NIL thread", on the football forum? Someone feel free to start a more general one, if you wish.)

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...-at-removing-boosters-from-recruiting-process

NCAA Board of Directors issues NIL guidance to schools aimed at removing boosters from recruiting process

"Today, the Division I Board of Directors took a significant first step to address some of the challenges and improper behaviors that exist in the name, image and likeness environment that may violate our long-established recruiting rules," said Jere Morehead, chair of the board and president at Georgia. "While the NCAA may pursue the most outrageous violations that were clearly contrary to the interim policy adopted last summer, our focus is on the future."

Definitionally, a booster is referred to as "any third-party entity that promotes an athletics program, assists with recruiting or assists with providing benefits to recruits, enrolled student-athletes or their family members." A significant number of these collectives have popped up at major universities since the birth of the NIL era. Some have estimated the total at more than 100.
 




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