metrodome roof collapses

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ncgo4 said:
Doesn't matter where or how they collect the tax money! No one will stand for an increase in taxes on anything right now for a Vikings stadium, even user fees or restaurant taxes. The Vikings are not getting a new stadium in Minnesota for the next 10 years period. Unless, of course, Wilf et al just build it on their own nickel.

Of course LA and the State of California are in worse fiscal shape than Minnesota. I've heard the Rose Bowl needs a bigger budget to fix than does the Metrodome.
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OK then. If you say so. Stadiums are financed over 30 years. Letting specific conditions of the moment dictate everything is beyond short-sighted. Target Field will be financed for about 27 more years. Should we stop paying and let it be foreclosed on?
 



howeda7 said:
That ship has sailed. MSP needs a major indoor venue to replace the Dome. It's not just about the Vikings.
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I am more than a bit confused on the reason that the Vikings and Gophers stadium has to be separate. The last time I looked the state was 4 billion in the hole. People would prefer to spend 800-900 on a new statium for the vikings than save money on a shared venue.

The proliferation of sports venues in the twin cities is crazy. People bitch about taxes but when push comes to shove it's, no I am not going give an inch on what I want. No wonder we are in the financial position we are in.
 


The needs of an NFL stadium and the needs of a college stadium are much farther apart nowadays than they may have been 30 or more years ago. Just because it is the same sport (basically) does not mean that the necessary amenities and organization are the same.

They tried making it possible for both teams at the dome, it ended up being sterile for both teams. USF, Pitt, Temple football also have sterile existences in their NFL environments. And the power and money of the vikings and the NFL would force TCF to become primarily an NFL stadium.

It is a mistake. The vikings are welcome as temporary guests only.
 

jovs said:
I am more than a bit confused on the reason that the Vikings and Gophers stadium has to be separate. The last time I looked the state was 4 billion in the hole. People would prefer to spend 800-900 on a new statium for the vikings than save money on a shared venue.

The proliferation of sports venues in the twin cities is crazy. People bitch about taxes but when push comes to shove it's, no I am not going give an inch on what I want. No wonder we are in the financial position we are in.
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Having the Vikings and Gopher in the same stadium DESTROYED Gopher football. Never again.

Also, we are not $4 Billion in the hole. The State wants to spend $4 Billion more in the proposed fiscal 2012 budget than in projected income. There is a great dela more than semantics involved here.
 

MrGopher said:
The needs of an NFL stadium and the needs of a college stadium are much farther apart nowadays than they may have been 30 or more years ago. Just because it is the same sport (basically) does not mean that the necessary amenities and organization are the same.

They tried making it possible for both teams at the dome, it ended up being sterile for both teams. USF, Pitt, Temple football also have sterile existences in their NFL environments. And the power and money of the vikings and the NFL would force TCF to become primarily an NFL stadium.

It is a mistake. The vikings are welcome as temporary guests only.
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Agreed
 

jovs said:
How much would it cost to expand TCF to the 72,000 and add a rectractable roof. Would this be less than a new outdoor NFL stadium. Could it be done for 300-400 million.
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i am gonna be sick.
 



MSP doesn't need a major indoor venue at all. Build an open air stadium with user fees (no general tax funds) and save 200 million on the final cost.

Denver, Chicago, and Boston are doing just fine without domed stadiums.
 



I will never fathom the bitterness some Gopher fans have toward the Vikings. For all the explanations I hear it just sounds like misdirected frustration.
 



13 Lined Ground Squirrel said:
MSP doesn't need a major indoor venue at all. Build an open air stadium with user fees (no general tax funds) and save 200 million on the final cost.

Denver, Chicago, and Boston are doing just fine without domed stadiums.
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Denver, Chicago, and Boston do not have "God's Middle Finger" poking down from Canada on a regular basis in December with arctic cold and wind .... kind of like today. Look at a weather map sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Today's fans are not the ones who inhabited the Met in the 60's and 70's. The Dad buying the tickets back then was a WWII vet who thought nothing of putting on a few layers of clothing (or a snowmobile suit) and heading out the door. Today's fan (on average, 'cause I know a lot of you eat nails for breakfast and think today is rather balmy) is a wimp. Look at TCF when the weather is bad. Today's metrosexual fan needs/wants creature comforts.
 

Khaliq said:
I will never fathom the bitterness some Gopher fans have toward the Vikings. For all the explanations I hear it just sounds like misdirected frustration.
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It is not misdirected frustration at all. It is very much on-target frustration. There is no obligation for Gopher fans to like the Vikings. Many college fans don't like professional sports at all. Especially when they have to subsidize the team owners so they can afford to pay the exorbitant coach and player salaries. If there was any justice in the world every owner of a professional sports franchise would have to pay 100% of their costs through ticket, concessions, and parking revenue. That way they would be operating just like the owners of every other private business in the world.
 

It's true. Sports are the only businesses that are subsidized.

Shh don't look over here at the farms.
 


Khaliq said:
It's true. Sports are the only businesses that are subsidized.

Shh don't look over here at the farms.
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Farms shouldn't be subsidized either. If you name another business that operates on the government tit and I will say the same thing. But if I had to put them all on a priority list professional sports would be right at the bottom.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Farms shouldn't be subsidized either. Come up with another business that operates on the government tit and I will say the same thing.
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Fundamentally I agree that no businesses (sports included) should be subsidized, but I don't shift that frustration to the teams really. They're just operating in the distorted marketplace that's been created by a lot of people in the wrong, particularly in government.
 

maroon and gold said:
Denver, Chicago, and Boston do not have "God's Middle Finger" poking down from Canada on a regular basis in December with arctic cold and wind .... kind of like today. Look at a weather map sometime and you'll see what I mean.

Today's fans are not the ones who inhabited the Met in the 60's and 70's. The Dad buying the tickets back then was a WWII vet who thought nothing of putting on a few layers of clothing (or a snowmobile suit) and heading out the door. Today's fan (on average, 'cause I know a lot of you eat nails for breakfast and think today is rather balmy) is a wimp. Look at TCF when the weather is bad. Today's metrosexual fan needs/wants creature comforts.
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Green Bay is only a couple of degrees warmer than Minneapolis in the winter. I refuse to believe that weakling constitutions are exclusive to Minnesotans.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Farms shouldn't be subsidized either. If you name another business that operates on the government tit and I will say the same thing. But if I had to put them all on a priority list professional sports would be right at the bottom.
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Auto companies, banks, brokerage firms, insurance companies, ....

Can I create a list of the ones that aren't instead? I haven't got all night.
 

badgergopher said:
Auto companies, banks, brokerage firms, insurance companies, ....

Can I create a list of the ones that aren't instead? I haven't got all night.
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By all means. Just put professional sports teams on the bottom of the list. Every community needs a rendering plant but pro sports teams are only a nice thing to have (at best).
 

13 Lined Ground Squirrel said:
MSP doesn't need a major indoor venue at all. Build an open air stadium with user fees (no general tax funds) and save 200 million on the final cost.

Denver, Chicago, and Boston are doing just fine without domed stadiums.
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This is misguided. The one Super Bowl, 2-3 Final Fours and multiple NCAA Regionals justify the need all by themselves. To say nothing of having a place to play Prep Bowl, host political conventions, etc.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Farms shouldn't be subsidized either. If you name another business that operates on the government tit and I will say the same thing. But if I had to put them all on a priority list professional sports would be right at the bottom.
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In a perfect world, we'd pay about 3% income tax, and only fund the military, infrastructure and schools. Who cares?

We live in reality. Reality is there are more cities then there are teams. If you want an NFL team, you have to provide an adequate facility. Almost every other city has decided its a worthy investment. Is every other city/state wrong and only the Minnesotans are smart enough to get it? I bet that's it. Except we took this attitude with the Twins for 12 years, and all we got was a stadium that cost more and an extra 10 years of bleak baseball in a bubble. Was it worth it?
 

howeda7 said:
In a perfect world, we'd pay about 3% income tax, and only fund the military, infrastructure and schools. Who cares?

We live in reality. Reality is there are more cities then there are teams. If you want an NFL team, you have to provide an adequate facility. Almost every other city has decided its a worthy investment. Is every other city/state wrong and only the Minnesotans are smart enough to get it? I bet that's it. Except we took this attitude with the Twins for 12 years, and all we got was a stadium that cost more and an extra 10 years of bleak baseball in a bubble. Was it worth it?
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Great point.

If, 10 years ago, the legislature actually ponied up and had legitimate talks with the Vikings about a new stadium, the cost for a stadium back then would have been easily HALF of what the same stadium will cost us today. How it's paid for.. Personally don't care, ideally Racino was my pick, but I'm more than willing to take the idea of taking the money that was going towards the Minneapolis Convention Center and putting it towards a new stadium for the Vikes, after the MCC is paid off for of course.

The longer the state waits on this issue, the more of OUR money they burn in the stove. Either we lose out on the Vikings completely when/if they move (imagine the hit on the states income when THAT happens), or we end up ponying out the cash, a la Target Field. Either way, the taxpayers will ultimately pay for the state's procrastination.
 

howeda7 said:
This is misguided. The one Super Bowl, 2-3 Final Fours and multiple NCAA Regionals justify the need all by themselves. To say nothing of having a place to play Prep Bowl, host political conventions, etc.
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How much do these events actually contribute towards the taxes that would pay for a venue and do the added costs of having such events actually payoff? And when was the last political convention at the Dome? What's wrong with playing the prep bowl at TCF?
 

howeda7 said:
This is misguided. The one Super Bowl, 2-3 Final Fours and multiple NCAA Regionals justify the need all by themselves. To say nothing of having a place to play Prep Bowl, host political conventions, etc.
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I wish someone would calculate how much money that stupid Dome has made the Twin Cities area with all of the events it has hosted over 28 years. It would shock people. The return on that investment could buy multiple stadiums. Denver, Chicago and Boston have hosted how many Final Fours and Super Bowls? There is a reason the Vikings and the MSFC did not share the same view of the importance of the roof.
 

Formo said:
Great point.

If, 10 years ago, the legislature actually ponied up and had legitimate talks with the Vikings about a new stadium, the cost for a stadium back then would have been easily HALF of what the same stadium will cost us today. How it's paid for.. Personally don't care, ideally Racino was my pick, but I'm more than willing to take the idea of taking the money that was going towards the Minneapolis Convention Center and putting it towards a new stadium for the Vikes, after the MCC is paid off for of course.

The longer the state waits on this issue, the more of OUR money they burn in the stove. Either we lose out on the Vikings completely when/if they move (imagine the hit on the states income when THAT happens), or we end up ponying out the cash, a la Target Field. Either way, the taxpayers will ultimately pay for the state's procrastination.
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I'm generally against increasing my taxes to pay for a football facility for the NFL club but am not opposed to a countywide type sales tax ala Hennepin's deal with Target Field. That way, I don't have to pay for it if I don't want to. I preferably prefer the casino idea. Everybody you know (unless you happen to know those associated the groupings of people that call themselves Sioux "tribes") favors a casino as a revenue stream, yet it never gets anywhere in the legislature.

What gets my goat is that 75% of the state does not want to pay for a stadium. But, I bet a similar poll asking if those same people want or think the Vikings should be allowed to leave, 75% would say no.

I don't want to see the Vikings leave and then have to pay to get a team back, as inevitably would happen ala the NHL club in St Paul. What a sweet deal that outfit got in St Paul. State paid arena for a cult following.
 

glovedgopher said:
I wish someone would calculate how much money that stupid Dome has made the Twin Cities area with all of the events it has hosted over 28 years. It would shock people. The return on that investment could buy multiple stadiums. Denver, Chicago and Boston have hosted how many Final Fours and Super Bowls? There is a reason the Vikings and the MSFC did not share the same view of the importance of the roof.
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The dome was built on the cheap. I wonder what the payoff would be on a billion dollar stadium? If and when a stadium deal ever gets done, I think the legislature ought to call Ziggy's bluff and require a team contribution of 1/3 the cost of a domed stadium. To hell with a retractable roof. Who cares about a 40 yard by 60 yard hole in the roof? Fat lot of difference to anyone inside.
 

Swede said:
How much do these events actually contribute towards the taxes that would pay for a venue and do the added costs of having such events actually payoff? And when was the last political convention at the Dome? What's wrong with playing the prep bowl at TCF?
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If they don't pay off why do so many cities bid on them and host them multiple times? Why did we host 2 Final Fours? Indy gets it every five years by rule. Are we that stupid? It's the damn political conventions that cost cities money.
 

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