McGary committing to Michigan and major concerns over Gophers recruiting

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BarnBurner said:
Now the talk is about high jumping? This is pathetic.


How about talking about how Tubby and Co have developed the kid? Or not developed? What his own personal development plan is/has been?

Who cares about "world class" if it doesnt translate into success on the court?
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The discussion is not about whether or not he is/will ever be a good college basketball player. The subject is his prospects as a pro basketball player. Art always has to run his big mouth, so I'm calling him out on it. The fact that he is a world-class athlete is extremely pertinent to this discussion, because that is exactly why he will, at minimum, get a shot as a professional basketball player. Note how I'm not saying he should, just that he will. If he had actually developed some basketball ability at this point, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because he would already be in the NBA.

If you want to discuss Rodney's development as a college player, start a thread or add to one of the 20987 already existing on the subject. Don't piss and moan because you don't like the subject that we are discussing.
 



dpodoll68 said:
This really is not that hard. The combination of his height and leaping ability in the same person is extremely rare. There is no doubt that he would be among the best in the world if he had taken up high jumping and learned technique from a young age. Do you disagree?
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So now Rodney Williams is a world class Olympic high jumper......but he just doesn't know it because he wasn't into track as a youngster.

That's like saying Steve Jobs could cure cancer.....but he wasn't into science in grade sachool.

As for the big mouth....hello, I'm kettle...you must be pot?!?!
 

On the real topic of the thread.....Tubby's recruiting has been all about essentially catching up, or covering up IMO. His initial recruiting "success" it was great. But when a few of those apples rotted, he's had to play catchup like the last two recruiting classes. It's hard to beat the big schools when you have to go every year and replace a piece that you thought would be there for four years. Is that partly his fault? Sure it is, they transferred for a reason and he couldn't keep them here. That's his responsibility. But it also may explain some of the "lackluster" recruiting of late a little bit.

With 4 classes under his belt, two were great, one wasn't, and the last one, I think, was pretty darn solid, I'd even say it was good to great if Hollins is what he looks like he could be. This year's is looking more toward the iffy side. Getting Nolan would help a lot, or even Buggs, but even so, most would probably place it no more than solid. The key here is, with these last few classes, if we can just get a group built up over time, rather than always replacing premature departures, we can get something positive going again.

All the off court drama and lost players (again, some of Tubby's own doing) has shown that getting 4 and 5 star kids in no way guarantees anything as far as success. Let this next group of kids (whom seem to fit more in line with the type of kids Tubby's looking for, and might respond better to his coaching as a result) play out a little bit before we completely write them off.
 


Art Vandelay said:
So now Rodney Williams is a world class Olympic high jumper......but he just doesn't know it because he wasn't into track as a youngster.
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Yes. That is exactly it. It's not that hard. Most of the world's greatest high jumpers started out as basketball players due to their height and jumping ability. The greatest high jumper ever, Javier Sotomayor, was sent to a sports school in Cuba to be a basketball player, until coaches realized his leaping ability far exceeded his basketball talents. Sound like anyone else you know? Derp dee der.

Art Vandelay said:
That's like saying Steve Jobs could cure cancer.....but he wasn't into science in grade sachool.
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A. Are you saying Steve Jobs wasn't into science in grade sachool? (Whatever that is.) If you think that Steve Jobs wasn't into science in grade school, you're an even bigger idiot than I thought.

B. Steve Jobs' expertise had nothing to do with medicine. It was in a completely different area of science altogether. Rodney Williams is extremely good at jumping. I would think anyone with a pair of eyes could see this. The ability to jump well translates pretty well into, you know, jumping.

Art Vandelay said:
As for the big mouth....hello, I'm kettle...you must be pot?!?!
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The difference is that I am knowledgeable and discuss subjects in which I have experience and at least a modicum of expertise. You run your mouth off about everything, and are incessantly negative in doing so, because you think it's funny and cute, even though most of the things you run your mouth off about have no basis in fact.
 

Reagarding Rodney, and knowing track a little bit, if he really focused on the event at a young age, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't have the capability to excel at the high jump given his natural ability to get up. It is a highly technical event though, so who knows, but his physical attributes lend to the thinking he could be a great high jumper. One of the best in the world might be a push, but he could be good at it.

There are plenty of guys in different sports who I think could excel at track & field events. I think Randy Moss could have been Usain Bolt before Usain Bolt. But of course, we'll never actually know that since he played football.
 


Beilien

EG#9 said:
I think it's tough to argue that Tubby is taking the program in the right direction right now. Is the 2011 team more or less talented than the team we started 2010 with? Was the 2010 team more or less talented than the team we started 2009 with? We've lost guys like Nolen, Hoffarber, Westbrook to graduation and guys like White, Carter, Iverson, Cobbs, Joseph to transfers during that time period. What type of talent has been brought in to replace those guys? I certainly expect Tubby to land upper half of the conference talent and Beilien is surprisingly doing that at Michigan.
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After the success Beilien had an West Virginia (and what Huggy did with them after he left for Ann Arbor) I am not sure why this is a surprise. He's battling Izzo to be the top dog in Michigan and thus an upper tier program in the Big 10.
 



NurumbiCongo said:
Really no need to. Probably one of the stupidest things you have ever said and that's saying something!
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Great retort. I bow at the feet of your superior intellect. And the use of ad hominem too! Simply brilliant!
 


dpodoll68 said:
There is no doubt that he would be among the best in the world if he had taken up high jumping and learned technique from a young age. Do you disagree?
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There is no doubt that Al Nolen could have been super middleweight champion of the world if he would have been locked in his basement and only trained with his father from a young age. Do you disagree?
 

dpodoll68 said:
Great retort. I bow at the feet of your superior intellect.
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Not getting baited into an augment about if Rodney could have been a world class high jumper had he learned the proper technique at an young age... and I'm the idiot?

Nice try troll.
 



NurumbiCongo said:
Not getting baited into an augment about if Rodney could have been a world class high jumper had he learned the proper technique at an young age... and I'm the idiot?

Nice try troll.
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How on Earth is that trolling? It's at the very crux of the argument. Rodney has world-class leaping ability. Therefore, he is a world-class athlete. It really isn't any more complicated than that. Go ahead and be cute and put it as your signature. If you're trying to make me upset or "show me", you're failing spectacularly.

And you still have yet to dismiss my point in any substantive way whatsoever. I'm certain that it will be a long wait for that to happen.
 





dont_feed_the_troll_sticker-p217202502037330062qjcl_400.jpg

Call out a troll but never feed him.

-He thinks he's clever, funny, and intelligent when he really isn't. He's just a dumb troll.
-He'll try to create a persona of that of a successful happy person with a life, but he's really just a retarded freak who spends all day on his fat ass in front of computer chatting on a message board.
 

HOOP DREAMS said:
He thinks he's clever, funny, and intelligent
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I don't "think" I am anything. I know that I am indeed all of those things. Anyone who knows me personally will tell you the same.

HOOP DREAMS said:
He's just a dumb troll.
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I fail to see where I have ever trolled, even once, on this or any other thread I have ever posted on, but rage on, anonymous poster. And I am certainly not dumb - my larynx is working just fine, thanks.

HOOP DREAMS said:
He'll try to create a persona of that of a successful happy person with a life, but he's really just a retarded freak who spends all day on his fat ass in front of computer chatting on a message board.
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I've never claimed to be successful. In fact, I'd say I've underachieved professionally more than any other person I know. I am happy, I do have a life, I'm neither retarded nor a freak, I am fat, I do spend my entire work day in front of a computer, and I never "chat" online except very occasionally with my nieces and nephews on facebook. I rarely post outside of my work hours, when I am usually to be found spending time with my wife and children. I'm sorry if this offends you.

There - happy? You got to throw your little temper tantrum. Go back to hiding in the shadows now.
 


It doesn't matter

It doesn't mater if Rodney could be a world-class high jumper. He's a guy who'll at least get a look from some NBA teams purely based off of his athletic ability. That's pretty much the definition of a world-class athlete in basketball terms. Obviously, unless he steps his game up considerably, he's unlikely to even play a game in the NBA. There's a lot of world class athletes in the NBA and many of them have a pretty high skill level too.

Fortunately for him, there are pro-leagues all around the world and if he wants to I'm sure he'll be able to play professionally.
 

I'll use the f-word, because i think it applies now.

Facilities. Just about every major conference program has a 24/7 basketball practice facility. Some of these facilites are pretty high-tech, some have game-room style amenities, all of 'em have anytime of day or night access to shooting. Maybe eight years ago this wasn't a game-breaker, from a recruiting perspective, but i think it is in 2011. 4-star or 5-star athletes want to work on their game - and they're going to look for programs and facilities that are committed to helping them get to the next level.

What we're saying to 4 and 5 star recruits (heck all recruits really) as a program, without a state-of-the-art practice facility, is that we lack one of the most important tools to get you to the next level, professionally. I think we don't even make the short list of way too many 4-5 star basketball players because we lack the modern practice facility.
 

TC-Monkey said:
I'll use the f-word, because i think it applies now.

Facilities. Just about every major conference program has a 24/7 basketball practice facility. Some of these facilites are pretty high-tech, some have game-room style amenities, all of 'em have anytime of day or night access to shooting. Maybe eight years ago this wasn't a game-breaker, from a recruiting perspective, but i think it is in 2011. 4-star or 5-star athletes want to work on their game - and they're going to look for programs and facilities that are committed to helping them get to the next level.

What we're saying to 4 and 5 star recruits (heck all recruits really) as a program, without a state-of-the-art practice facility, is that we lack one of the most important tools to get you to the next level, professionally. I think we don't even make the short list of way too many 4-5 star basketball players because we lack the modern practice facility.
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Coaches
Wins
Hype
History
Playing time
Location/weather

all of those are factors ahead of the practice facility

I wish we had one though as it would be one more positive.
 

dpodoll, don't waste your time responding to these idiots. They'll just continue to argue something irrelevant to the points you've addressed. They're hopeless. I'm frustrated just reading their responses to you.
 

bga1 said:
Coaches
Wins
Hype
History
Playing time
Location/weather

all of those are factors ahead of the practice facility

I wish we had one though as it would be one more positive.
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I hear ya, and i'm not disagreeing, but...

They're all important. But take a recruit like Matt Thomas (Onalaska, WI - 2013 class) - the dude is a shooter, flat out. Recruits that are shooters want to practice their shot - at all times of the day or night, during the off-season, between classes, etc. Look at his list: Marquette, Iowa State, Boston College, Minnesota - all cold city schools, none that are the top-tier basketball schools, all have good coaches...in short, i think no school has a clear advantage, relative to the list you present. You'd think Minnesota would be in a great position...we're the closest big school offering, we're Big 10, Onalaska borders Minnesota. I hope we get him, but I bet we don't. I really think this type of player puts a high priority on facilities. Right or wrong.

I'm just sayin' that we shouldn't kid ourselves and say that practice facilities aren't part of the problem. When it comes down to getting the best regional players and competing between Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa St., Nebraska, Marquette - there really isn't much difference from a historical perspective, coaching perspective, weather perspective (Wisconsin seems to be beating all these programs in recruiting right now). Facilities are going to be a big reason, especially for a shooter to commit one place over another.
 

katze019 said:
There is no doubt that Al Nolen could have been super middleweight champion of the world if he would have been locked in his basement and only trained with his father from a young age. Do you disagree?
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I think you boys are on to something...

dpodoll68 said:
This really is not that hard. The combination of his height and leaping ability in the same person is extremely rare. There is no doubt that he would be among the best in the world if he had taken up high jumping and learned technique from a young age. Do you disagree?
Click to expand...

That or you're on something!
 

Monty519 said:
On the real topic of the thread.....Tubby's recruiting has been all about essentially catching up, or covering up IMO. His initial recruiting "success" it was great. But when a few of those apples rotted, he's had to play catchup like the last two recruiting classes. It's hard to beat the big schools when you have to go every year and replace a piece that you thought would be there for four years. Is that partly his fault? Sure it is, they transferred for a reason and he couldn't keep them here. That's his responsibility. But it also may explain some of the "lackluster" recruiting of late a little bit.

With 4 classes under his belt, two were great, one wasn't, and the last one, I think, was pretty darn solid, I'd even say it was good to great if Hollins is what he looks like he could be. This year's is looking more toward the iffy side. Getting Nolan would help a lot, or even Buggs, but even so, most would probably place it no more than solid. The key here is, with these last few classes, if we can just get a group built up over time, rather than always replacing premature departures, we can get something positive going again.

All the off court drama and lost players (again, some of Tubby's own doing) has shown that getting 4 and 5 star kids in no way guarantees anything as far as success. Let this next group of kids (whom seem to fit more in line with the type of kids Tubby's looking for, and might respond better to his coaching as a result) play out a little bit before we completely write them off.
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Careful, now. You don't want to interrupt a pissing match with a thoughtful, intelligent response that is about the OP.
 


EG#9 said:
With McGary committing to Michigan today, I thought I would go over to Rivals and check out the recruiting classes of our competition for 2012. John Beilien is briging in the type of classes (or even better) than what we expected from Tubby as he has 2 four star kids and a 5 star kid locked up for 2012. Looking through the conference, the only teams without a 4 star recruit coming in 2012 are Penn State, Nebraska, Minnesota, and Illinois. That is not the company we want to be keeping and our current position of hoping for a fringe top 100 guy to commit is magnified by the fact that arguably our two best players will be moving on after this year. We really can't afford to add any more projects to this roster and need an immediate impact player or two, or 2012 could get ugly.
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Well, OSU does not currently have any commits for the 2012 class. They only have 1-2 scholarship openings, but they are finalists for Tony Parker, possibly in the lead with him.
 

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