Marucs' blog breaks down 2010 recruits and chances of landing them

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Any chance we can get back to the subject of potential University of Minnesota 2010 recruits at some point? This board has apparently gotten the raw end of the deal in the GopherHole-Cat'sPause commenter exchange.
 

We were concerned when Tubby did not come in and pull in a top player for his first year, many hoping he'd do a Calipari. FACT: Tubby did not engaged in the questionable practice of bringing students here recruited for another school.

If we are going to "win the right way" which is the stated goal and ethics of Tubby and the AD and the institution itself FACT: This is the clearly stated intention of all three and close to an exact quote.

IMO: If a program is at the absolute top year after year, then there is a compromise in ethics somewhere. FACT: This is clearly stated as an opinion

Why did Tubby come here? I think because he wanted a place where the drive to succeed didn't override reasonable ethical standards. AND I think that it is possible to have great success putting together an excellent team and a program outside of a dysfunctionally driven need to try to prove you have the biggest pee-pee every damn year. FACT: Again, clearly stated as an opinion

That kind of need to succeed creates its own kind of failure. FACT: Billy Gillespie
 

I still would be very suprised if we showed interest in Noreen as we have never have had any before, but then I don't know if Tubby has had alot of chances to watch him play this much in person so you never know.

As for him being a committed player, he is about as soft a verbal commitment as you can get and is definately still on the open market.
 


Moonlight said:
We were concerned when Tubby did not come in and pull in a top player for his first year, many hoping he'd do a Calipari. FACT: Tubby did not engaged in the questionable practice of bringing students here recruited for another school.

If we are going to "win the right way" which is the stated goal and ethics of Tubby and the AD and the institution itself FACT: This is the clearly stated intention of all three and close to an exact quote.

IMO: If a program is at the absolute top year after year, then there is a compromise in ethics somewhere. FACT: This is clearly stated as an opinion

Why did Tubby come here? I think because he wanted a place where the drive to succeed didn't override reasonable ethical standards. AND I think that it is possible to have great success putting together an excellent team and a program outside of a dysfunctionally driven need to try to prove you have the biggest pee-pee every damn year. FACT: Again, clearly stated as an opinion

That kind of need to succeed creates its own kind of failure. FACT: Billy Gillespie
Click to expand...



The point I was trying to make is people assigning some sort of moral authority to these decisions are fooling only themselves. Tubby Smith left Kentucky for exactly two reasons: No contract extension and being told he could not hire his son on his staff because of state law and University policy in regards to nepotism.

Tubby Smith is no different from the majority of coaches out there. Is he handing out payments to players? No, he has too much pride for that. But is he willing to look the other way in regards to secondary violations (things that to you or me would seem humorously trivial) that do occur at pretty much every D-1 program in the country? Of course and that makes him no different than Calipari or Roy Williams or Rick Pitino or Billy Donovan or Tom Izzo.

If you don't believe me that's fine. You are entitled to that opinion but let's call a spade a spade: These coaches make ungodly sums of money and it's not because of some pie in the sky rhetoric about ethics or the laughable myth of the student-athlete. If it were Derrick Rose would have been ROY two seasons ago instead of being forced to play a year in college in servitude to the NCAA, Nick Saban would still be coaching the Dolphins and Randolph Morris would have never gotten his college eligibility back after making a foolhardy decision to declare for the NBA draft.
 


The Truth said:
The point I was trying to make is people assigning some sort of moral authority to these decisions are fooling only themselves. Tubby Smith left Kentucky for exactly two reasons: No contract extension and being told he could not hire his son on his staff because of state law and University policy in regards to nepotism.

Tubby Smith is no different from the majority of coaches out there. Is he handing out payments to players? No, he has too much pride for that. But is he willing to look the other way in regards to secondary violations (things that to you or me would seem humorously trivial) that do occur at pretty much every D-1 program in the country? Of course and that makes him no different than Calipari or Roy Williams or Rick Pitino or Billy Donovan or Tom Izzo.

If you don't believe me that's fine. You are entitled to that opinion but let's call a spade a spade: These coaches make ungodly sums of money and it's not because of some pie in the sky rhetoric about ethics or the laughable myth of the student-athlete. If it were Derrick Rose would have been ROY two seasons ago instead of being forced to play a year in college in servitude to the NCAA, Nick Saban would still be coaching the Dolphins and Randolph Morris would have never gotten his college eligibility back after making a foolhardy decision to declare for the NBA draft.
Click to expand...

AGAIN with the LIES.

Both of Tubby's sons worked on his UK staff - GG in 2001 and Saul in 2004. Lie #1.

Tubby had a contract extending 4 more years when he left UK. Lie #2.

He LEFT UK for a better opportunity. Great school, great basketball tradition, great city to live in, great AD and university President, great fanbase, etc. UK had some of those but not all of them.

Have there been minor violations under any coach? Sure, probably even Bobby Knight. But Tubby DOESN'T look the other way.

And UK committed MAJOR violations from the 1950's through the 1980's. And had 4 major NCAA infractions (1953, 1976, 1988, and 1989) to prove it.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
He LEFT UK for a better opportunity. Great school, great basketball tradition, great city to live in, great AD and university President, great fanbase, etc. UK had some of those but not all of them.
QUOTE]

I don't want to get involved in this stupid argument, but seriously? UK is undoubtedly a more difficult place to work given the expectations and some of the irrational fans, but UK is one of the handfull of programs that can legitimately have a shot at the national title year in and year out. I think it's fair to say that even the most loyal Minnesota fan recognizes that opporunity is not part of Minnesota basketball.
Click to expand...
 

The Truth said:
The point I was trying to make is people assigning some sort of moral authority to these decisions are fooling only themselves. Tubby Smith left Kentucky for exactly two reasons: No contract extension and being told he could not hire his son on his staff because of state law and University policy in regards to nepotism.

Tubby Smith is no different from the majority of coaches out there. Is he handing out payments to players? No, he has too much pride for that. But is he willing to look the other way in regards to secondary violations (things that to you or me would seem humorously trivial) that do occur at pretty much every D-1 program in the country? Of course and that makes him no different than Calipari or Roy Williams or Rick Pitino or Billy Donovan or Tom Izzo.

If you don't believe me that's fine. You are entitled to that opinion but let's call a spade a spade: These coaches make ungodly sums of money and it's not because of some pie in the sky rhetoric about ethics or the laughable myth of the student-athlete. If it were Derrick Rose would have been ROY two seasons ago instead of being forced to play a year in college in servitude to the NCAA, Nick Saban would still be coaching the Dolphins and Randolph Morris would have never gotten his college eligibility back after making a foolhardy decision to declare for the NBA draft.
Click to expand...
And the point I was trying to make and that you don't understand is there is a reason why Tubby came to U of M instead of a hundred different places. It is due the shift in attitude of the institution following the academic cheating scandal in our BB program that WAS different from many in that it tarnished the academic reputation of the University - way beyond the issues bantered about here. My sister successfully defended her dissertation the day the scandal was splashed across the nation, breaking just hours before our NCAA tournament game making players ineligible and us and Clem Haskins one of the top stories of of the tourney - TERRIBLE press for the program and, more importantly, the institution which has top research programs. It was the talk of her party I attended and the anger from every academic was fierce. And it was the academics opportunity to gain more control over the policies of the school.

Tubby took the job here as opposed to the many, many opportunities he had and continues to have every year because of the commitment the U has made to do this the best way possible given the ethical challenges inherent. I'm not naive, but no one here finds any violations humorous. And the "pain" UK fans discuss during down years is laughable to us given the pain of the our sanction years. (this last year excepted at UK - we'd agree that was true pain).

I have a close family friend (and U of M grad) who was a counselor and worked with student athletes at a 2-year school I won't name, that experiences recruitment from top programs for "their" JUCO students in the money making sports. And I've been told there is a lot of difference in how the coaches treat and recruit these players. BIG differences. And I've been told Tubby is one the best, if not the best in ethical interactions with these kids.

The U of M could not afford someone like Calipari - not from the financial perspective but from the reputation perspective. Its great for UK where athletics are such a primary aspect of their reputation, but the U won't be betting their reputation on anyone with ethic shadows beyond the stuff you spoke of - the general problem of NCAA BB recruiting being a big, very messy business. If you don't think Tubby is happy to be here after UK, where people value who he is and his clean image over getting 5 McD All Americans on a regular basis, you are closing your eyes and refusing to see the primary differences between the two programs. You might not want to like that our school has a greater emphasis on ethics, but its true. This emphasis was forced on the program by past errors but its true nonetheless, and makes it a beneficial place for Tubby to work - and beneficial for all concerned.
 

Moonlight,

I'm not trying to insult your intelligence here because from reading your posts you have always come off as articulate and thoughtful but you cannot continue to espouse the virtues of a system constructed under false pretenses and fanciful conclusions based upon the idea that system itself is all about the "student" in student-athlete.. The U doesn't exist on some higher moral platform than the rest of major D-1 athletic programs. They practice the same selective admissions standards and academic whitewashing for athletes that everyone else practices at this level. The only real crime involved in all this is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy from the coaches, the adminstrators, the NCAA and the fans. To be fair, a lot of this stuff is out of the coaches hands and some just don't want to be bothered with monitoring every little thing that happens. They figure "if I stick my head in the sand and concentrate on what I can control I won't be found responsible in the end if anything goes wrong".

Minnesota or Michigan or Duke or Kentucky can put themselves on all the pedastals that they wish but all one has to do is kick that pedastal to understand how flimsy and poorly constructed it really is.
 



UWOle said:
Friend Of Tubby said:
He LEFT UK for a better opportunity. Great school, great basketball tradition, great city to live in, great AD and university President, great fanbase, etc. UK had some of those but not all of them.
QUOTE]

I don't want to get involved in this stupid argument, but seriously? UK is undoubtedly a more difficult place to work given the expectations and some of the irrational fans, but UK is one of the handfull of programs that can legitimately have a shot at the national title year in and year out. I think it's fair to say that even the most loyal Minnesota fan recognizes that opporunity is not part of Minnesota basketball.
Click to expand...

ABSOLUTELY. Better opportunity FOR HIM.

The U >>> UK as a school. Twin Cities >>> Lexington for lifestyle and things to do. AD Maturi and Prez Bruininks >>> Barnhart and Todd at UK.

As I said, UK had some of things but not the 3 that I just listed above.
Click to expand...
 

The Truth said:
Moonlight,

I'm not trying to insult your intelligence here because from reading your posts you have always come off as articulate and thoughtful but you cannot continue to espouse the virtues of a system constructed under false pretenses and fanciful conclusions based upon the idea that system itself is all about the "student" in student-athlete.. The U doesn't exist on some higher moral platform than the rest of major D-1 athletic programs. They practice the same selective admissions standards and academic whitewashing for athletes that everyone else practices at this level. The only real crime involved in all this is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy from the coaches, the adminstrators, the NCAA and the fans. To be fair, a lot of this stuff is out of the coaches hands and some just don't want to be bothered with monitoring every little thing that happens. They figure "if I stick my head in the sand and concentrate on what I can control I won't be found responsible in the end if anything goes wrong".

Minnesota or Michigan or Duke or Kentucky can put themselves on all the pedastals that they wish but all one has to do is kick that pedastal to understand how flimsy and poorly constructed it really is.
Click to expand...

There is no comparison between The U, Maturi, and Bruininks and UK, Barnhart, Tood on ethics. The former >>>>> the latter. Not even REMOTELY close.

The poster above you nailed it.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
There is no comparison between The U, Maturi, and Bruininks and UK, Barnhart, Tood on ethics. The former >>>>> the latter. Not even REMOTELY close.

The poster above you nailed it.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I had a very interesting conversation on Friday evening with a former medium-high profile Big Ten football player (late 80's era) about the ins and outs of college football. I won't go into any details, because I don't want to ruin what the purists around here think of D-1 high-profile athletics, but let's just say it's as-expected.
 

Moonlight said:
And the point I was trying to make and that you don't understand is there is a reason why Tubby came to U of M instead of a hundred different places. It is due the shift in attitude of the institution following the academic cheating scandal in our BB program that WAS different from many in that it tarnished the academic reputation of the University - way beyond the issues bantered about here. My sister successfully defended her dissertation the day the scandal was splashed across the nation, breaking just hours before our NCAA tournament game making players ineligible and us and Clem Haskins one of the top stories of of the tourney - TERRIBLE press for the program and, more importantly, the institution which has top research programs. It was the talk of her party I attended and the anger from every academic was fierce. And it was the academics opportunity to gain more control over the policies of the school.

Tubby took the job here as opposed to the many, many opportunities he had and continues to have every year because of the commitment the U has made to do this the best way possible given the ethical challenges inherent. I'm not naive, but no one here finds any violations humorous. And the "pain" UK fans discuss during down years is laughable to us given the pain of the our sanction years. (this last year excepted at UK - we'd agree that was true pain).

I have a close family friend (and U of M grad) who was a counselor and worked with student athletes at a 2-year school I won't name, that experiences recruitment from top programs for "their" JUCO students in the money making sports. And I've been told there is a lot of difference in how the coaches treat and recruit these players. BIG differences. And I've been told Tubby is one the best, if not the best in ethical interactions with these kids.

The U of M could not afford someone like Calipari - not from the financial perspective but from the reputation perspective. Its great for UK where athletics are such a primary aspect of their reputation, but the U won't be betting their reputation on anyone with ethic shadows beyond the stuff you spoke of - the general problem of NCAA BB recruiting being a big, very messy business. If you don't think Tubby is happy to be here after UK, where people value who he is and his clean image over getting 5 McD All Americans on a regular basis, you are closing your eyes and refusing to see the primary differences between the two programs. You might not want to like that our school has a greater emphasis on ethics, but its true. This emphasis was forced on the program by past errors but its true nonetheless, and makes it a beneficial place for Tubby to work - and beneficial for all concerned.
Click to expand...

A great post. It was so much fun reading it. Keep them coming.
 



jmag21 said:
Any chance we can get back to the subject of potential University of Minnesota 2010 recruits at some point? This board has apparently gotten the raw end of the deal in the GopherHole-Cat'sPause commenter exchange.
Click to expand...

I apologize for going off-track sometimes. What FOT and I are doing here is bringing optimism. Some of the Gopher’s fans are not familiar with Tubby as much as we are. This program is going to the right direction. It will take a few years before winning the National Championship. Let’s be patient and trust the man in charge. He is one of the best. What these UK fans are trying to do is creating anxiety on this board. They hate Tubby and his son.

In one of the earlier posts, someone mentioned that it was Vince Taylor who recruited Joseph not Saul. This might be true but let’s not forget all the hard work that Saul is doing. Saul was a great leader on the court and will be a great leader off the court. He has so much heart. Unfortunately, he played between two of the best point guards that I have ever seen playing college basketball. He played after Turner and before Hawkins. All of those dives after loose balls were forgotten when people became mesmerized by Cliff Hawkins’ defense (by the way, he was a Tubby recruit). This is a little bit of information about Saul.

Let’s trust our coaches and not be influenced by negative publicity. We will be fine. I am buying my season ticket in a few days and can hardly wait to see you all at the game.

Go Gophers.
 


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