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UpAndUnder43 said:
SCSU had under 100 season tickets. School enrollment is dropping. The program was bleeding money and had no support locally. Why on earth would they bring that back after cutting it?

From the St. Cloud Times:
“There were 58 football season ticket holders this fall. In the last three years, the average Huskies football game drew between 1,000 and 1,300 spectators”

D2 football is going the way of the dodo bird
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There's just no real interest in d2 football. The MIAC schools generally have engaged students with some semblance of school spirit, and they also have traditionally received significantly more media coverage in the state. That doesn't exist at the state universities.
 

The only other school that might be able to pull off going D1/FCS would be Duluth, but I can't imagine the U of M would allow this.
 

Tommyboy said:
NDSU plays in a state funded stadium
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Well, St. Thomas has already played one game at Allianz Field... it's not inconceivable that they'd play more games there... assuming they get to the point where they can reliably put 19,000 asses in those seats.
 

The Fargodome is actually owned by the city of Fargo. I still don't understand why they don't sell beer at games.

And there is no way UST is going to be allowed back at Allianz. Apparently MNUFC was not happy at the condition of the grass following the Tommie-Johnnie game a few years back,.
 

discochris said:
The only other school that might be able to pull off going D1/FCS would be Duluth, but I can't imagine the U of M would allow this.
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They would, if Duluth dropped football for the move.

Would be the same thing as with Lincoln and Omaha.

Duluth is always going to be DI hockey, first and foremost. The U would benefit just fine from having a low-major DI school for sports like basketball, volleyball, etc.
 



laazrakit said:
Well, St. Thomas has already played one game at Allianz Field... it's not inconceivable that they'd play more games there... assuming they get to the point where they can reliably put 19,000 asses in those seats.
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Because they played St. John’s.. Saturday there were 1500 people there? No vibe
 

all applicants to Mankato get accepted as long as you apply before a certain nov date
 

discochris said:
Mankato is the only public program in the state that could realistically go D1/FCS. But they'd have to get a big infusion of cash, and probably a revamped stadium. The MnSCU system has been bleeding money for a while now - that money won't come from the state.

It's the fourth largest system of higher learning in the country (and remember, that's separate from the U of M system), and we're 22nd in population. I don't know how long that can be sustainable.

Enrollment is dropping at every one of the state universities with the exception of Mankato, which has by far the nicest campus and best college town setting. St. Cloud is an absolute dump of a city, as is Moorhead (though Fargo is nice). Full disclosure, I graduated from MSU-Moorhead. Enrollment is quite literally half of what it was when I went there, and I fear that if they decide to close one of the universities, it will be Moorhead. It's a horrible town with awful weather in a market with two more notable colleges.
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Lol, the St. Cloud are is much nicer than Mankato and is twice the size. The campus is on the river and Mankato is up on the hill and flat as a pancake. Mankato is a hick town.
 




maroonfive said:
Lol, the St. Cloud are is much nicer than Mankato and is twice the size. The campus is on the river and Mankato is up on the hill and flat as a pancake. Mankato is a hick town.
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I've spent a decent amount of time at both schools (as a visitor for various things) and I'd take Mankato's campus and setting over St. Cloud's any day.
 


Tommyboy said:
When they played Drake the week before there were 1,000 people at the game. There in a conference that does not get fans traveling for games, no scholarships, looks like the coach gets most of the benefit.
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What are you talking about? Did your kid just quit the team or something? You get very strange obsessions with things.
 




Word said:
I've spent a decent amount of time at both schools (as a visitor for various things) and I'd take Mankato's campus and setting over St. Cloud's any day.
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Without question. Mankato is a much nicer city than St. Cloud. I suspect a big reason enrollment is dropping in St. Cloud is because the city has such a bad reputation these days.
 

discochris said:
Without question. Mankato is a much nicer city than St. Cloud. I suspect a big reason enrollment is dropping in St. Cloud is because the city has such a bad reputation these days.
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The campus is ugly too. A lot of buildings that were built during a really bad era of architecture.
 

Word said:
The campus is ugly too. A lot of buildings that were built during a really bad era of architecture.
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Moorhead and Winona have a lot of buildings with that similar 1960's brick look. I've never seen the campus in Bemidji.
 

From a marketing perspective, I've often thought the state universities should have renamed themselves geographically. Moorhead = NW Minnesota State; Winona: SE Minnesota State, St. Cloud: Central Minnesota State...etc.
 

When I was in HS, Wayzata/EP/Minnetonka/Hopkins were producing the best talent.

Crazy to see how times have changed
 

Moorhead, Winona, and Bemidji are not needed, as public 4-year schools.

They should be given the option to convert to junior/tech schools, go private, or close.


Bemidji would probably be the hardest, as they have the investment in DI hockey arena which is pretty nice.
 

discochris said:
Moorhead and Winona have a lot of buildings with that similar 1960's brick look. I've never seen the campus in Bemidji.
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I've been on the Bemidji campus a couple times. I don't remember much distinctive about it other than the lake being right there. The lake is a nice backdrop for the campus.
 

MplsGopher said:
Moorhead, Winona, and Bemidji are not needed, as public 4-year schools.

They should be given the option to convert to junior/tech schools, go private, or close.


Bemidji would probably be the hardest, as they have the investment in DI hockey arena which is pretty nice.
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Why close them if they have decent enrollment?
 

Word said:
Why close them if they have decent enrollment?
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It's along the lines of post #63:
It's the fourth largest system of higher learning in the country (and remember, that's separate from the U of M system), and we're 22nd in population. I don't know how long that can be sustainable.

Schools are not for-profit businesses. We're spending MN tax dollars to pay for these educations. If they're mostly MN high school graduates, that's one thing. But if they're pulling in a bunch of students from outside the region, we're paying to subsidize their 4-year degree, and then they leave state immediately ... I disagree with that. I don't know what the actual numbers are, these are hypotheticals.
 
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MplsGopher said:
It's along the lines of post #63:
It's the fourth largest system of higher learning in the country (and remember, that's separate from the U of M system), and we're 22nd in population. I don't know how long that can be sustainable.

Schools are for-profit businesses. We're spending MN tax dollars to pay for these educations. If they're mostly MN high school graduates, that's one thing. But if they're pulling in a bunch of students from outside the region, we're paying to subsidize their 4-year degree, and then they leave state immediately ... I disagree with that. I don't know what the actual numbers are, these are hypotheticals.
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I guess I'd need to see if they actually are truly being subsidized to that extent. Out of state tuition should be high enough so that MN taxpayers aren't subsidizing those students.
 

Word said:
I guess I'd need to see if they actually are truly being subsidized to that extent. Out of state tuition should be high enough so that MN taxpayers aren't subsidizing those students.
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But we'd be subsidizing them, no matter what.

Even if out of region tuition is twice as high as in-state .... it's still likely half or less of what the equivalent private school tuition would need to be with no state funding.
 

MplsGopher said:
But we'd be subsidizing them, no matter what.

Even if out of region tuition is twice as high as in-state .... it's still likely half or less of what the equivalent private school tuition would need to be with no state funding.
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I'm not sure what reciprocity deals are in place now with neighboring states but in theory, for surrounding states, that should balance out. I can't imagine those schools are seeing many students from outside the five state region.

As for private schools, that's another matter entirely. Most are WAY overpriced. You will never convince me that with the possible exception of Carleton and maybe some specialized programs, that you are going to get a better education, much less ROI, attending an MIAC school over a state university.
 

discochris said:
I'm not sure what reciprocity deals are in place now with neighboring states but in theory, for surrounding states, that should balance out. I can't imagine those schools are seeing many students from outside the five state region.
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I have no idea. It doesn't matter for the argument though, as local students pay even less in tuition.

Yes, those states send some dollars to us, is your argument. Sure, but even beyond that, those slots and the school overall are subsidized.

discochris said:
As for private schools, that's another matter entirely. Most are WAY overpriced. You will never convince me that with the possible exception of Carleton and maybe some specialized programs, that you are going to get a better education, much less ROI, attending an MIAC school over a state university.
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You are of course correct, unless like you not, its a top 25 liberal arts school in the country, like Carlton or MAC.

And that is an entirely separate argument than what I'm saying.


I'm saying that, even at "full" out of state rates, those slots are still subsidized by MN tax dollars, at places like Moorhead, Bemidji, Winona.

They would be paying more like $60k per year, if there were no subsidies. Instead, guessing in-state is more like $10-15k and full out of state is more like $30k.
 

Mankato has a very nice page that explains costs, reciprocity, etc. Rates are very similar for all the MnSCU schools:

tuition
 

The biggest problem with Moorhead is the market they are in. They share it with a decent private college in Concordia, and NDSU, which (largely because of their minor league football championships) has developed a much larger profile. (my freshman year at Moorhead, MSU actually had a larger enrollment than NDSU). If someone wants to go to college in the F-M area, I have to think that MSU would be their last choice. The campus itself is nice, except the athletic facilities, which are mostly 1960's era trash, but the neighborhood just south of campus is so bad they at one time had to put a police substation in one of the apartment buildings. (mostly gang-related crime). And as I said, Moorhead is a depressing, run down city and it's worse now than when I lived there.

Not to mention that within an hour of F-M, you have UND, UMC, Valley City State and Mayville State. That's a lot of four year schools in a 60 or so mile radius with only a medium sized population.
 


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