Let's slow down on the Fire PJ Chatter

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AF_Howie_2180

AF_Howie_2180

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I get it we are all expecting and hopefully demanding better out of what we got this year from the players, coaches, and everything around Gopher Football; but before we look to kick PJ to the curb I feel like we should at least give him a couple more seasons to see where things go. Sure this year's 5-7 matches the "Zero" year record but minus the Covid year of 2020's (3-4) record when's the last time we had a coach go 11-2, 9-4, and 9-4? Throwing out 2020 this is only the 2nd time in his tenure that he has had a losing record for the season, which has the negative effect of us expecting continued greatness at those kind of levels. There was chatter to start the year that this season could be a bit of a let down from those numbers and well sadly it lived up to that but let's look at some of the more recent tenures of our other coaches and what they had before being let go....

Glen Mason was here for 10 seasons before his departure after the infamous Insight Bowl Loss. Which besides PJ is the longest of any coach since Murry Warmath's 18 seasons back in the late 50s to 70s. The majority of Masons tenure was mostly a couple games over .500 with a sprinkling of a 10 win and 8 win season in there.

Brewster's almost 4 season tenure was mostly all negative with regard to building anything positive he did have one winning season at 7-6 but that was the end of it.

The Kill/Clay's 6 season tenure produced a 9-4 season and a couple 8-5 but we know how that ended.

So putting everything into perspective I know it's going to be hard but let's keep a positive mindset that while this year was a set back, better things are coming, brighter days are ahead. Heck even the Timberwolves might finally have turned a corner. With this coming change to everything that has been B1G next year maybe this was another "Zero" year before the new look B1G starts. If we fire off another 2-3 less than .500 seasons in this new look B1G then the drum beat for change can fire up and at that point PJ will be at the 10 year mark similar to Mason's tenure and we can go from there.
 








Replacement Gopher said:
Except this conversation has been going on for three seasons….

How slow do you want it to be?
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7 weeks ago I said that I could care less if he moved on.

I was somewhat taken to the woodshed for that.

Times can change so fast.
 




Firing PJ Fleck is ridiculous.

Expecting Fleck to actually change his "tressel ball" mindset should be the mantra he and his staff take on.

It's 2024 with NIL $, transfer portals, and a completely different playbook for what offenses do than in 2005, he HAS to change.

You can win a lot of games with tressel ball when you have top tier talent at all positions....Georgia, Michigan, etc. when you have 2 and 3 star kids, you can't simply line up and out athlete the other team, which Is Tressel ball.

We need 3 things to be a good team...

A QB that can actually read progressions and knows when to run and when to throw. AK sucks. I mean he really really sucks. He play nervous and robotic. He is a major problem.

WRs that have some speed. We need speed. Yes, the offensive system we run is offensive to modern day offenses, but if we are going to keep the system, we need speed to make it work.

Our OL and DL got outmuscled the entire year. Honestly reminded me.of when we would play FCS schools back in the day. It was 2 completely different levels of players in the field. We looked like the FCS school in almost all the games this year. Fucking embarrassing.

Do we make those changes ? No clue.

But, if we go 5-7 again next year, the HC seat will be 🔥🔥🔥
 






Spoofin said:
You should read Ryan Burns’ take on blaming the OC (again). He makes some great points.
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I have a GI account that I almost never access but Burnsie noted on JG's Sunday autopsy show that we've had 4 OCs with the common denominator as HC.

He chose a specific offensive scenario that we've seen a thousand times where it's 3rd and long or longer, after a 1st or 2nd down "riskier play" that didn't produce, and it's a run that goes nowhere.

His point is that IS the HC and not the OC. The data is in. He's correct.

The only way out of that loop is for the QB to be good enough to go against the HC's "philosophy." Maybe that was Tanner in 2019, but it definitely was not Athan in 2023.
 
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PJ does a lot of good things we’re going bowling because our kids have such good grades, for example. However, where he sucks is during the 12 Saturday’s a year when it really matters he’s putting out a terrible product. I don’t care if he changes or gets fired or quits or hires a new OC that miraculously turns things around as long as those Saturdays change significantly.
 

Gopherchase said:
PJ does a lot of good things we’re going bowling because our kids have such good grades, for example. However, where he sucks is during the 12 Saturday’s a year when it really matters he’s putting out a terrible product. I don’t care if he changes or gets fired or quits or hires a new OC that miraculously turns things around as long as those Saturdays change significantly.
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lol, what are you 20? A lot of us have been around for decades and while no one is happy with this season; we have some historical prospective
 


Texan Gopher said:
Firing PJ Fleck is ridiculous.

Expecting Fleck to actually change his "tressel ball" mindset should be the mantra he and his staff take on.

It's 2024 with NIL $, transfer portals, and a completely different playbook for what offenses do than in 2005, he HAS to change.

You can win a lot of games with tressel ball when you have top tier talent at all positions....Georgia, Michigan, etc. when you have 2 and 3 star kids, you can't simply line up and out athlete the other team, which Is Tressel ball.

We need 3 things to be a good team...

A QB that can actually read progressions and knows when to run and when to throw. AK sucks. I mean he really really sucks. He play nervous and robotic. He is a major problem.

WRs that have some speed. We need speed. Yes, the offensive system we run is offensive to modern day offenses, but if we are going to keep the system, we need speed to make it work.

Our OL and DL got outmuscled the entire year. Honestly reminded me.of when we would play FCS schools back in the day. It was 2 completely different levels of players in the field. We looked like the FCS school in almost all the games this year. Fucking embarrassing.

Do we make those changes ? No clue.

But, if we go 5-7 again next year, the HC seat will be 🔥🔥🔥
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People keep bringing up the passing game components, but a healthy experienced LB and RB core would be easier fixes and would raise the floor of the program.
 

LesBolstad said:
lol, what are you 20? A lot of us have been around for decades and while no one is happy with this season; we have some historical prospective
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I think these games are worse to watch, overall. My opinion — you can I have yours.
 

I think 2024 could be rough, maybe only 4 wins. But I would let 2025 play out before even thinking of making a change. That's my opinion.
 

Texan Gopher said:
Firing PJ Fleck is ridiculous.

Expecting Fleck to actually change his "tressel ball" mindset should be the mantra he and his staff take on.

It's 2024 with NIL $, transfer portals, and a completely different playbook for what offenses do than in 2005, he HAS to change.
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Yes. I mean if Wisconsin of all teams can run a hurry up no huddle offense, then anything is possible. I never thought I'd see it. But there they were, looking modern and making our defense look awful.
 

If we were Wisconsin, we'd fire Fleck.
If we were Iowa, we'd fire Fleck.
If we were Michigan, we'd fire Fleck.
If we were Penn State, we'd fire Fleck.
If we were Nebraska, we'd fire Fleck.
But we're Minnesota. And we are just fine with a losing record in year 7 of Fleck's tenure. We're just fine with Fleck having the worst Big 10 recruiting class of 2022. We're just fine knowing that 2024 and 2025 will likely result in even worse records and continued bottom-tier recruiting under Fleck.
And that is why we will continue to lose. It's why we haven't had any type of championship since before most of us were born. Because other Big 10 teams expect more from their teams than we do.
 

MZBKA1 said:
Fleck having the worst Big 10 recruiting class of 2022.
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Minnesota is #9 in 2023. Minnesota was #8 in 2021. The topic of NIL is relevant, as in, let's compare the money offers:

1701013425704.png


247sports.com

2023 Recruit Big-Ten Football Team Rankings

In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
247sports.com 247sports.com
 

XMan said:
Meaning changing assistants - especially at OC
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There is only one starting point for change -- Fleck. Until he changes his own attittudes, new assistant coaches will not be hired unless they reflect his philosopy. The only change that can be meaningful is Fleck changing Fleck.
 

Some of y'all need to take a step back.

We have terrible high school football talent in the main 300 mile recruiting area around us.

We have a liberal university with below average boosters and almost no NIL $$$.

We actually, outside of a COVID year and this year, have had a run of really good football, bowl wins, and a top 10 finish.

Settle down. Let's see what PJ changes and what we put on the field next season.

If we go 5-7 next year, then the seat will be smoking hot heading into 2025.
 

Gopherchase said:
PJ does a lot of good things we’re going bowling because our kids have such good grades, for example. However, where he sucks is during the 12 Saturday’s a year when it really matters he’s putting out a terrible product. I don’t care if he changes or gets fired or quits or hires a new OC that miraculously turns things around as long as those Saturdays change significantly.
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There are roughly 10,000 people around the U that can oversee study and class attendance and produce the same results.
 

btowngopher said:
Not sure what your point is? What does the NW coaches season have to do with Flecks season?
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Simply points out there was a guy who was unknown to most of us six months ago who, when given a chance, proved to be a better football coach than Fleck. It further points out there are a lot of coaches in the ranks who might well be better than Fleck if given the opportunity.

Fleck is well known now. He is limited by cultish belief in shortening the game and avoiding risk. He has yet to give any indication he is open to personal change.
 

Based on PJ'S results to date, firing him would be ridiculous. We are coming off a stretch that produced an 11 win season that was the best in recent history using even a very broad definition of "recent." We followed that up with a disappointing but not catastrophic 3-4 B1G only season, then recovered with back to back 9 win seasons. That made for the best 4 year stretch that most living gopher fans have ever seen. This was a pretty awful year, but not so bad as to justify pulling the trigger on that basis alone. If next year is as bad as this, I think it becomes a much more fair argument for firing.

The above being said, coming into this year, most would just roll their eye and ignore the rare (but loud) calls for firing PJ. Now it feels like it people feel the need to respond. That the fire Fleck calls seem to require rebuttal doesn't bode well for the direction he's heading.
 



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