Last 5 full seasons

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The bowl streak has helped a bit, but we've only had eight non-conference games against P5/4 teams, going 6-2. The majority of those wins have been built up in the Big Ten season which has certainly been nice.
 

RememberMurray said:
So, why don't you supply some 'context'? Please elaborate. I'm willing to listen.

As far as validation is concerned, it wouldn't take much time to fact-check these win numbers.
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FWIW - looking at the seasons in question: Gopher record (wins and losses) vs P4/P5 opponents / overall record / final ranking

2019: 8-2 / 11-2 /#10 Coaches- #10 AP
2021: 8-3 / 9-4 / not ranked (3 teams with 4 losses in top 25)
2022: 7-4 / 9-4 / not ranked (10 teams w/4 losses in top 25)
2023: 3-7 / 6-7 / not ranked
2024: 6-5 / 8-5 / not ranked
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total: 32-21 / 43-22

so looking at those seasons, 2022 looks on paper like they could have been ranked - but that Gopher team had a 3-game losing streak in October to fall to 4-3.

2021 - opened with a loss to OSU. won 2 games, then lost to Bowling Green, falling to 2-2. won 4 games to make it 6-2, then lost 2 in a row, falling to 6-4.

theory: it's not just how many games you win (or lose), it's when you win (or lose) them.

I don't think there's any conspiracy to keep the Gophers out of the ratings. if the Gophers want to be rated, they need to put together a 6-0, 7-0 type of start to the season. in 2019, they started the season 9-0, then lost 2 of next 3 games, but still finished #10 in the poll.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
FWIW - looking at the seasons in question: Gopher record (wins and losses) vs P4/P5 opponents / overall record / final ranking

2019: 8-2 / 11-2 /#10 Coaches- #10 AP
2021: 8-3 / 9-4 / not ranked (3 teams with 4 losses in top 25)
2022: 7-4 / 9-4 / not ranked (10 teams w/4 losses in top 25)
2023: 3-7 / 6-7 / not ranked
2024: 6-5 / 8-5 / not ranked
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total: 32-21 / 43-22

so looking at those seasons, 2022 looks on paper like they could have been ranked - but that Gopher team had a 3-game losing streak in October to fall to 4-3.

2021 - opened with a loss to OSU. won 2 games, then lost to Bowling Green, falling to 2-2. won 4 games to make it 6-2, then lost 2 in a row, falling to 6-4.

theory: it's not just how many games you win (or lose), it's when you win (or lose) them.

I don't think there's any conspiracy to keep the Gophers out of the ratings. if the Gophers want to be rated, they need to put together a 6-0, 7-0 type of start to the season. in 2019, they started the season 9-0, then lost 2 of next 3 games, but still finished #10 in the poll.
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Good information, SON.

I agree — I doubt there's any conspiracy per se. I do, however, think there is bias based on national perception. I think there's a 'perception barrier', if you will. Apparently, an 11-2 season ending in a #10 ranking, two 9-4 seasons and an 8-5 season are not enough to break through and gain the preseason flowers that other schools seem to enjoy annually.

Also: this is minor, but shouldn't 2019 be 9-2 / 11-2, rather than 8-2 / 11-2?
 

RememberMurray said:
Good information, SON.

I agree — I doubt there's any conspiracy per se. I do, however, think there is bias based on national perception. I think there's a 'perception barrier', if you will. Apparently, an 11-2 season ending in a #10 ranking, two 9-4 seasons and an 8-5 season are not enough to break through and gain the preseason flowers that other schools seem to enjoy annually.

Also: this is minor, but shouldn't 2019 be 9-2 / 11-2, rather than 8-2 / 11-2?
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2019 non-conf games were against South Dakota State, Fresno State and Georgia Southern. They played 9 games vs P5 opponents in the B1G, and 1 Bowl game vs a P5 opponent for a total of 10 games vs P5 opponents, hence the 8-2 mark. this all started with a chart showing P4/5 wins.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
2019 non-conf games were against South Dakota State, Fresno State and Georgia Southern. They played 9 games vs P5 opponents in the B1G, and 1 Bowl game vs a P5 opponent for a total of 10 games vs P5 opponents, hence the 8-2 mark. this all started with a chart showing P4/5 wins.
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You're right, I missed that.
 


2019 - Gophers went 3-0 vs G5 and 3-0 vs Power 5, got ranked, won two more, reached #8 before losing at Iowa. Finished at #10.
2020 - Gophers were ranked #21 in the preseason but immediately lost big to Michigan and had a bad year. Bye bye ranking.
2021 - Gophers got ranked #20 after going 6-2 (including a loss to Bowling Green) but immediately lost to Illinois. Bye bye ranking.
2022 - Gophers got ranked #21 after going 2-0 vs G5 and 2-0 vs Power 5 and immediately lost to a mediocre Purdue team and went on a losing streak. Bye bye ranking.
2023 - no ranking. bad season
2024 - no ranking. didn't string together enough wins at the right time.

There is no conspiracy here. The Gophers were ranked when they deserved it and even when they didn't (2020) but 2019 was the only year where they followed up a ranking with a win. They choked away all other chances.

They won't be ranked going into next year with a 8-5 record this year and a recruiting class that is perceived by pundits to be mediocre (I think recruit rankings are way more of a reputation issue than season rankings). The Gophs probably get ranked next year if they go 4-0 headed into the Ohio State game.
 

I keep going back to the information contained in the original post on this thread. I consider myself to be an optimistic fan, but even I found those numbers to be surprising.

I often read here on Gopher Hole that Minnesota under Fleck is a 'mid-level' program, but the original post on this thread clearly paints a different picture. That is, unless a team tied for 12th nationally in wins is to be considered 'mid-level'.

Rather than 'mid-level', maybe it's time we consider Minnesota to be Top 15-level?

The other part of this is the NIL story, which is equally fascinating and well laid-out in another thread here on Gopher Hole. A solid return on investment, indeed!
 

RememberMurray said:
I keep going back to the information contained in the original post on this thread. I consider myself to be an optimistic fan, but even I found those numbers to be surprising.

I often read here on Gopher Hole that Minnesota under Fleck is a 'mid-level' program, but the original post on this thread clearly paints a different picture. That is, unless a team tied for 12th nationally in wins is to be considered 'mid-level'.

Rather than 'mid-level', maybe it's time we consider Minnesota to be Top 15-level?

The other part of this is the NIL story, which is equally fascinating and well laid-out in another thread here on Gopher Hole. A solid return on investment, indeed!
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You seem to think these numbers offer good news messages. I think it’s the opposite. In only one year since PJ has been here has he been ranked in the top 25 at the end of the year? Is that correct? We’ve shit the bed at inopportune times year after year. We are solidly mediocre and PJ still has to change his best to get to where any of us should be more satisfied. Seems like on the other thread most people are giving a B minus or thereabouts for how PJ has done overall I think that is just about right; and I and I would guess most everyone else would give him an A in the off the field stuff so to get to a B- overall he still has a ways to go on game day. I will say the games were more fun this year and I do appreciate that.
 

Panthadad2 said:
Nope. Take a look at the schedules since 2021 and tell me where the Gophers should have been ranked where they weren't. I think they got ranked in 2021 before the Illinois game then lost. In 2022, I believe they got ranked after smashing MSU then lost to Purdue. In 2024, they would have been ranked if not for losing at freaking Rutgers. They have just been inconsistent and hadn't had a breakout year since 2019 to attract any pre-season rankings.
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This is the right instinct. It is hard to find a single week from 2021-24 when the Gophers should have been ranked when they were unranked. I could find only 1 week in 2021 where I thought they probably should have been ranked. That's it.

In 2024, if my quick check is right, the Gophers did not receive a single AP vote. Suspect that may change in the final poll with another PJ bowl victory, but not enough to get ranked.

In 2023, the Gophers received votes early on, then lost to North Carolina and Northwestern, and then no more votes.

In 2022, the Gophers went 4-0, to earn a 21 AP rank, the only week they have been ranked since the 2019 season in the AP poll. The 11 cumulative ranked weeks since 2019 is 10 in the 2019 season, and one in 2022. The Gophers were on the cusp of getting ranked late in the 2022 season, but stealing defeat from the jaws of victory against Iowa ended that.

In 2021, the Gophers were on the brink of getting ranked, having clawed back from the Bowling Green debacle, only to lose to Illinois and Iowa. Before losing to Illinois, the Gophers were 6-2, and appeared in the College Football Playoff ranking, and probably should have been in the AP poll that week. But they then lost to Illinois and Iowa. Three victories to end the year, including beating 6-win West Virginia, brought the Gophers to a high-water for the season of # 28 in AP poll votes.
 



Gopherchase said:
You seem to think these numbers offer good news messages.
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Yes... I do think that the Gophers ranking 12th in wins nationally over the last 5 seasons is good.

Gopherchase said:
I think it’s the opposite. In only one year since PJ has been here has he been ranked in the top 25 at the end of the year? Is that correct? We’ve shit the bed at inopportune times year after year. We are solidly mediocre and PJ still has to change his best to get to where any of us should be more satisfied. Seems like on the other thread most people are giving a B minus or thereabouts for how PJ has done overall I think that is just about right; and I and I would guess most everyone else would give him an A in the off the field stuff so to get to a B- overall he still has a ways to go on game day. I will say the games were more fun this year and I do appreciate that.
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To each his own.
Cheers.
 

RememberMurray said:
For Minnesota to have been ranked in only 11 weeks while compiling that impressive record is a bit of a head-scratcher, to say the least.
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Well, it's like this. Prior to the season, the media people scan the list of teams. When they get to Minnesota, they say to themselves "Nah. I doubt it and I don't want to be embarrassed if I pick them, nobody else does, and they flub it." So, they start off the season unranked. Then, the first time they lose those same people say "It was good that I didn't rank them." I think we had a couple of one-week rankings since 2019 but were immediately removed when we lost.
 


RememberMurray said:
The main takeaway here:

Minnesota is 12th in the nation in wins over the last 5 full seasons.

No matter how you spin it, that's impressive.
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Correct. We lose the wrong games and those keep us out of the polls and CCG in the past.

Rutgers killed momentum towards a possible ranking late this year.
 



Pretending 2020 doesn’t exists undermines the story here. The Gophers great 2019 season gave them credibility for 2020, and the Gophers were ranked # 19 in the 2020 preseason, their highest preseason ranking since 1969. So the Gophers got their respect, but then laid an egg out of the gate in the screwed up Covid year. The 2020 season rightly gave them no credibility for a preseason 2021 ranking.

Starting in 2021, the Gophers have ended their seasons with dog-doo bowl opponents doing nothing to justify being ranked preseason the following year.
 

2024 beat Rutgers, make a field goal against NC
2023 don’t screw up Northworstern, Illinois
2022 show up against Purdue
2021 earn a W with either Illinois or Iowa
2019 Beat Iowa and the trajectory would have changed dramatically

Win 7 of those above and Gophers would be around Michigan and Notre Dame. The rankings would follow.

Not much room for error, but looking at it that way doesn’t seem completely unrealistic. Every one of those games were winnable.
 

I agree that we haven’t deserved to be ranked more than we have, but I do think some teams have been ranked far more than they deserve.
 

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