Kill is making

[GoAUpher]

This message is hidden because imthewalrus is on your ignore list.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who takes great joy from seeing this message.

 

[RodentRampage]

I suppose it's easy for you not to get to excited about the new regime, all you are interested in is Mason. Of the seven coaches that the U has had since Warmath, Mason's performance has been average. So, NO, I'm not going to temper my enthusiasm for Gopher football.

 

[ShushPush]

I would take Cal Stoll at a BIG winning percentage of .482 over Mase or Gutey. But, who is content with sub .500? The challenge is to get above .500 in the Big Ten for several years. Then, at least, we would be respectable. We are still at .000 with Coach Kill. We all appreciate his efforts, but let's not crown him savior before he has at least has that above .500 record. I am happy with the team practicing better than day one of drills. This is not enough reliable data for me to begin chirping Kill's praises or to condemn the man. I will know more about how Kill will do after May and spring recruiting. Even then, I will not heap praise on what amounts to the day to day training of the team. We have seen game players and we have seen practice players. Victories are all that matters. A few months back I said we would know if Kill should stay a coach or not at the end of 9 months. Well, we will know at the end of 8 months now.

 

[dpodoll68]

We are still at .000 with Coach Kill.

Actually, we are at "--" with Coach Kill. Or, "unknown" or "undefined" if you prefer.

A few months back I said we would know if Kill should stay a coach or not at the end of 9 months. Well, we will know at the end of 8 months now.

Just like Iowa knew after one year with Kirk Ferentz, right? Or like UNC knew after one year (hell, make it two) with Mack Brown? Or like Becky knew after one year with Barry Alvarez?

Give me a break.

 

[RodentRampage]

There are good reasons for optimism. Feel free to stay off the bandwagon as long as you like, just don't expect anyone else to do so.

 

[Killjoy]

I Have A Headache

the University of Minnesota. THAT is the bottom line. THAT is our fact of life. THAT is what needs to brought up from time to time when all of the stinking hyped-hope is spouted about the "new" savior of the football program.

hoax followed the final Salem years and it SEEMED as though he was improving things...compared to the end of the Salem years.

Maybe Gutty rode the wave of the hoax crest...but, he was fired and Wacker (the new savior) was brought in. We know how the Wacker years played out.

Mason followed Wacker and at least made the program competetive again.

brewster followed Mason and he was thrown under the bus mid-season after only 3 1/2 seasons that seemed like 3 1/2 seasons too many.

Kill gets to follow the failed brewball experiment in which brewster averaged less than 2 Big Ten wins per season for 3 1/2 seasons. It should allow him to join the next level of Gopher Coaches relatively quickly. All he has to do is win more than 6 Big Ten games and he will surpass brewster. The next target for him to surpass after Brewster will be lou hoax who had a total of 7 Big Ten wins, had his own bag-man ( Luther Darville) and left the program in trouble with the NCAA in addition to killing the spirit of the newly growing Gopher Fan Base by bagging for Notre Dame before the season had even ended. A real LOW point of Golden Gopher Football....and so it goes...
; 0 )

Let's see how Kill does before we start saying he is so much better than anyone else. Believe me, I WANT Kill to be the next coming of Bernie Bierman...but...he has to SHOW me with wins, LOTS of Big Ten wins, and by running a completely clean and honest program and by graduating ever increasing numbers of student athletes. AND, he HAS to do better than brewster and Wacker and Salem in Big Ten play. IF he can at LEAST return us to being competetive in Big Ten play it will be a start. The 2011 season is going to be a difficult season for a new coach. I want to keep it all in perspective. Not too much "hype" needs to be randomly spread around by you "random hype.." spreader types. Let's let Coach Kill go about his business and see how it all works out in 2011. But, let's not try to say he is the greatest coach ever...yet. He is going to have to EARN that kind of praise by winning Big Ten Football Games...a LOT of Big Ten Football Games.

The mess of the years between the summer of 2002 and the present time reflects the horrible job that badger joel macturi has done with the football program. He has botched it...messed it up...and has been horribly incompetent with the launching of the new football palace. His incredibly POOR handling of contract management issues within just the football program is more than reason enough to have thrown him under the bus years ago. There can be NO discussion of the plight of Golden Gopher Football between the years of 2002 and 2011 without putting a LOT of blame on the dual-headed monster combination of prexy b AND badge joel macturi... ; 0 )

Can somebody translate what wren is babbling about here into a couple of bullet points? When I look at his long babbling comments I get a splitting headache.

 

[Sparlimb]

From a resume standpoint (not W-L) what Mason did at Kansas far exceeds what Kill has done to this point. Sometimes I think no one on here is capable of having rational opinion of Mason. 75% hate him and the other 25% have irrational love. He was nothing more than an above average college football coach. He was also the best coach we've had in the last 25 years. Sadly those two things are both true. Kill if his track-record holds, will be at worst the second-best coach in the last 25 years and hopefully find his way to #1.

Completely agree. I wish Mason was our 5th best coach in the last 25 years, but he isn't. He was the best we've had. Yes he plateaued and yes it was the right time to see if we could do better. But I will always prefer half-way decent teams that make bowl games to the Brewster era of losing to the NDSU's of the world. I sure hope Kill exceeds Mason's win output and has a more consistent winning percentage, but even if he only hits the same level, it will be something. Mason put us on National Television, prime time games, won bowl games, etc. We need to get back there first, then worry about 10 win seasons and any sort of championships.

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

To me, this illustrates the importance of the media, as much as most around here hate the local guys. They never gave Brewster a chance. The fact that they were right about him isn't the point -- it's that the casual fan never gave him a chance because all they knew about him was what the media told them. For now, the local media loves Kill. So the casual fan thinks Kill is a good coach because that's what they're being told.

In the end, Kill will have to win. But he'll get more rope because he's got the media behind him. At least for now.

I would disagree somewhat. I think the media was onboard with Brewster until after the B1G portion of the second season, with a handful of exceptions. They even stuck with him through the 1-11 debacle. But after the 5 game collapse at the end of the second season, then changing not only coordinators but entire schemes, the press basically went to a holding pattern waiting until he accomplished something (major upset, threatening leading the B1G standings, etc.), which obviously never happened. The decision to change those schemes (especially offense from spread to power rushing for the Insight Bowl to pro set) may haunt Brew for the rest of his life. It really made him look clueless and affected everything from press coverage to recruiting.

 

[station19]

Living in the past isn't going to do us any good. I am quiet aware that Jerry Kill has his work cut out for him but you don't see him crying about it do you? It is kind of pathetic to see how afraid some people are to notice or accept what is going on with the program. It is as if they were afraid. There are no guarantees but being afraid isn’t living. And that doesn’t mean you need to drink the Kool-Aid. Just notice what is going on and don't be afraid.

I'm totally on board with Coach Kill. I get the feeling he is the real deal but he won't take us to the top of Big Ten overnight.

 

[Mustang Mountain Man]

Actually, we are at "--" with Coach Kill. Or, "unknown" or "undefined" if you prefer.



Just like Iowa knew after one year with Kirk Ferentz, right? Or like UNC knew after one year (hell, make it two) with Mack Brown? Or like Becky knew after one year with Barry Alvarez?

Give me a break.

Wow. Mathematical philosophy on GH by you is like sunshine on a sidewalk. The null set aside, wouldn't you agree that this is Coach Kills philosophy of perform or perish applies to the coaching staff?

 

[Gopher07]

A lot of the time, even the most successful coaches have a rough go of it (record-wise) in year one but show improvement in record in year two (and in some cases year three):

"Helmet" schools:
Jim Tressel: year one 7-5, year two 14-0
Bob Stoops: 7-5, 13-0
Pete Carroll: 6-6, 11-2
Nick Saban (Alabama): 7-6, 12-2
Gene Chizik: 8-5, 14-0

Non-helmet schools:
Pat Fitzgerald: 4-8, 6-6, 9-4
Kirk Ferentz: 1-10, 3-9, year three 7-5
Barry Alvarez: 1-10, 5-6
Mack Brown (UNC): 1-10, 1-10, 6-4-1

That's not to say certain coaches don't break the mold. You could have argued after year two of the Brewster era that, record-wise, we were on this same track. But to deem success or failure, based purely on record, after year one is folly.

 

[Saluki07]

A lot of the time, even the most successful coaches have a rough go of it (record-wise) in year one but show improvement in record in year two (and in some cases year three):

"Helmet" schools:
Jim Tressel: year one 7-5, year two 14-0
Bob Stoops: 7-5, 13-0
Pete Carroll: 6-6, 11-2
Nick Saban (Alabama): 7-6, 12-2
Gene Chizik: 8-5, 14-0

Non-helmet schools:
Pat Fitzgerald: 4-8, 6-6, 9-4
Kirk Ferentz: 1-10, 3-9, year three 7-5
Barry Alvarez: 1-10, 5-6
Mack Brown (UNC): 1-10, 1-10, 6-4-1

That's not to say certain coaches don't break the mold. You could have argued after year two of the Brewster era that, record-wise, we were on this same track. But to deem success or failure, based purely on record, after year one is folly.

Based on Coach Kill's past, his teams improve every year and make the biggest improvement in his third year with a program.

NIU: 6-7, 7-6, 10-3

SIU: 1-10, 4-8, 10-2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Kill[/URL]

 

[dpodoll68]

wouldn't you agree that this is Coach Kills philosophy of perform or perish applies to the coaching staff?

I would be happy to answer the question if I understood it.

Based on Coach Kill's past, his teams improve every year and make the biggest improvement in his third year with a program.

NIU: 6-7, 7-6, 10-3

SIU: 1-10, 4-8, 10-2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Kill[/URL]

Yeah, after Kill went 1-10 in his first year, SIU "knew that Kill shouldn't stay", right?

 

[Killjoy]

There is no guarantees but ......

A lot of the time, even the most successful coaches have a rough go of it (record-wise) in year one but show improvement in record in year two (and in some cases year three).

That's not to say certain coaches don't break the mold. You could have argued after year two of the Brewster era that, record-wise, we were on this same track. But to deem success or failure, based purely on record, after year one is folly.

That is why observing a new coach character and what he is doing to change the culture of the program is a much better indicator of future results than looking at first year win/losses. I also would add that a new coach’s previous record of turning around programs is also a very good indicator of future success.

The bad news for all of you who want certainty, there are no guarantees. I happen to think we have a pretty good picture of what our coach is all about. That is good enough for me because that is all we are going to get at this time. The rest of you can piss and moan until you have certainty. It is just like the stock market, the smart money sees the opportunity early. The rest when most of the opportunity is gone.

 

[Mustang Mountain Man]

I would be happy to answer the question if I understood it.

After reading my statement tonight, I can see why you did not understand it. The 3 meds I am on right now play hell on my higher cognitive functions most of the day (month, year?). I could review what I am typing now and I am not sure if I could recognize my mistakes in logic, grammar or syntax. My brain has a terrible time keeping serotonin and other neurotransmitters at normal levels. It may be related to 2 traumatic head injuries I endured when I was 11 and 18.

 

[boatin]

And, darn it, until Coach Kill has coached a game or two here at Minnesota, he has NO record. How can anyone in his/her right mind start talking "greatness" when there is NO record??????????

I will balance all of the crazy talk based on NO record... ; 0 )

Hmmm, apparently Coach Kill has never coached a game in his life as he has "NO record". That game where he beat the gophers must have been a dream because it never happened.

Folks, we are now limited to comments about coaches with big ten experience and ignore everyone else because they don't have a record that matters. Wait, coach Kill has played BT teams....I'm confused.

 

[Maximus]

Can somebody translate what wren is babbling about here into a couple of bullet points? When I look at his long babbling comments I get a splitting headache.

• Blah, Blah, Blah
• Big Ten Wins
• Blah, Blah, Blah

 

[calminnfan]

In all fairness, one thing that does need to be considered when assessing the quality of coaching of the past is that the U chose not place a high value on the football program and therefore did not invest heavily into it. That did have a very negative impact on the football team. Not a big Mason fan, but I would even have to put him in that category as well.

 

[imthewalrus]

boatin: yes, you are confused...

I stated that Coach Kill has not coached any games as the coach of the University of Minnesota yet. That is the 'damn-straight truth...the whole truth and nothing but the truth..." KHe did kick brewster's butt all over the place here in TCF BANK STADIUM, but that doesn't count because he was coaching at NIU then. IF you want to talk about Coach Kills' "greatness" you will have to confine it to the colleges he coached at and compare him to other coaches at those colleges.

Sorry boatin...we have to define what kind of standards we are talking about here. From my point of view, you have to compare apples to apples. Coaching at SIU and NIU is a very fine thing to do. Coaching at the University of Minnesota is a very fine thing to do. However, it IS different than coaching at SIU and NIU because The Unviversity of Minnesota is neither NIU or SIU. All three are totally different institutions. Do you understand that boatin???????????

; 0 )

 

[imthewalrus]

maximus: if he doesn't get enough Big Ten wins EVERY aspect of a Big Big Ten coache's job is blah blah blah and out the door. IF you try to ignore the Big Ten win factor...you have missed the whole point of the Gophers having a football program...a BIG TEN football program. So, you can blah blah blah all you wish...but the Big Ten coaches are judged by HOW they do in Big Ten play.

Otherwise, have the University of Minnesota join Notre Dame as being an independent and see how this whole revenue thing turns out for the University of Minnesota. Which networks will bust down badger joel macturi's door offering him an exclusive long-term major network tv contract. IF you are a member of the Big Ten Conference you had damn well better be competetive within the Big Ten Conference in Football, Basketball and now Hockey. You have GOT to carry your weight for the Big Ten Conference Network. You can't just accept your massive check for finishing at the bottom in conference standings...you have got to help sell subscriptions to the Big Ten Network. In order to make your viewing area WANT the Big Ten Network...you have GOT to compete once in a while. The incompetent badger joel macturi has been content to just collect the check for having the programs "show up".

Ditch bjm NOW. Throw him under the bus so that he can join the soon to be gone prexy b.

; 0 )

 

[4four4]

All three are totally different institutions.

That had a losing record before Kill took over. He has shown at every level the ability to coach and win. Now we wait until the season but I would guess he wins more than one game next year.

 

[nsmike]

Enough of this Coach Kill has no record! He is 2-2 against B10 schools with lower division teams. If I can't get excited about his prospects, when coaching a least average B10 level talent, you can all go to H. E. double hockey sticks. His results against B10 competition despite inferior talent speak for themself.

 

[imthewalrus]

Oh yes, I would think he will win more than one game in 2011 too! But, to be talking "Greatness?????" at this moment in time is just much too much. 99% of the fun is in "getting to greatness..." for a coach AND for a football fan who is rooting for that coache's team. : 0 )

 

[Killjoy]

Who is confused?

LOL - Stop telling other people they are confused. The only one who is confused is you. Only a confused person would think that all you have to do is say "Big Ten Wins" to run a football program. Why don't you save yourself and the rest of us a lot of time and just type the following summary from Maximus of one of your earlier comments?

• Blah, Blah, Blah

• Big Ten Wins

• Blah, Blah, Blah

I would have thought after Brewster was fired you could have found something new to say but I guess that would have required you to think.

 

[imthewalrus]

nsmike: winning one here and winning one there against a Big Ten Program is a great thing for a non-name school. However, lining up and playing 8 Big Ten games in a single year is mighty rough and tough to do. It is a LONG GRIND. Line up against Purdue, NU, wisky, iowa, Nebraska, Michigan, MSU and Illinois back to back to back to back to back. How DEEP is your depth to withstand injuries, concussions, physically draining games, heartbreaking losses, big upset wins, blowout losses, mental errors game after game after game????? Some years add OSU and PSU to that schedule mix. It is a lot different than picking off a weak Big Ten team now and then when they are the only Big Ten team on your schedule that year.

I think Coach Kill will do JUST FINE at the U of M. Will he do a lot better than some of the coaches who have coached here ahead of him? In terms of numbers of Big Ten wins, I KNOW he will do better than at least three or four of them if he gets at least four years to coach here...brewster, lou hoax and Wacker and probably Salem. It starts getting tougher after that.

I'm just being realistic for right now. I don't go with my heart any longer. I don't go with my emotion of the moment either. What are the odds...and...what are the evens or any coach at the U of M averaging four Big Ten wins per season over a four year stretch? Going 500 in Big Ten play would get a coach to a 16 win and 16 loss mark in Big Ten play. I think that would be GREAT! That would mean that in a 12 game schedule that the team would average between between 6 and 8 wins in a season. It would provide bowl game experiences for the players and the fans. In a year when a bowl win happened, it would extend the range of wins to between 7 and 9. That would be GOOD, competetive Big Ten Football!

I am hoping coach Kill can achieve that kind of program. It would mean, that once in a while it might dip below achieving that 7 to 9 wins, but, it would also give us the possibility of having a magical season when all goes right every once in a while.

Still, would any of you call a 16-16 Big Ten record a GREAT record? Would it qualify a coach for being considered to have achieved GREATNESS? Cal Stoll was 27-29. Did that qualify him for "greatness? Murray was 65-57-4. He averaged coaching 7 Big Ten games a season for his 18 year career at Minnesota. Of course he won a couple Big Ten championships and one National Championship...yes, Murray WAS entitled to the term "GREATNESS..."

Remember people, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Being realistic is NOT a bad thing. However, over-hyping something can be disasterous for long term ticket sales,building lasting, loyal followings and the way a coach is portrayed by the local media. Why...I have EVEN seen posters here on Gopher Hole change from LOVING everything about brewster to totally bashing and detesting his sorry butt...all in the course of four short years. You know who YOU are and you should know better than to be hyping the hype. Let's let Coach Kill go to work and do what he wants to try to do with this program. Forget about using the term "greatness" when talking about coach Kill right now. Build into that if and hopefully when it happens.

 

[Killjoy]

Quite Blowing Smoke

Oh yes, I would think he will win more than one game in 2011 too! But, to be talking "Greatness?????" at this moment in time is just much too much. 99% of the fun is in "getting to greatness..." for a coach AND for a football fan who is rooting for that coache's team. : 0 )

Sure Right - You know all about greatness! That would be your hero Mason's losing record at Minnesota. Get a new theme wren. The old one isn't playing.

 

[Mustang Mountain Man]

I think what our dear friend is saying

Well, how can we all continue to bash/hash/thrash about over something that hasn't happened yet? How can we crown a coach who hasn't fulfilled his mission yet?

I love what I am seeing out of coach Kill. I like what I am seeing out of the players. I have no idea if the season will turn out great or poor.

What I do know is the standard of performance is rising in every industry. And, surviving in any industry is getting more difficult.

A high school athlete can outrun the 400 meter record time from the 1908 Olympics by almost 2 seconds. Why? Better training technique! Better in conditioning. Better in diet. Better in execution. Our understanding of how to run fast has changed radically in the last 103 years.

Our coach may truly be a large upgrade compared to what we had in the past. Is that good enough when every other member of the Big 10 has upgrades as well? We won't know where we stand until the games are played. We need to be upgrading how we do things in Gopher Football every day or we will continue to lose in the Big 10. That means we need to keep elevating our expectations for sucess every day as well. These are exciting times. No doubt about it.

 

[Killjoy]

Mustang Mountain Man

Huh? That is what wren said? You must have a PhD in wren speak but there had to be an "Its all about Big Ten wins" somewhere in that pile.

 

[imthewalrus]

killjoy: you just love to obsess about me! You stick your nose right on the tail of most every post I make. Wouldn't it be a "BLAST" if someday I inadvertntly passed a little gas? You know what I mean...IF you catch my drift... ; 0 )

That would be exactly what you deserved. But, as they always say killjoy: "...you can't have your cake and eat it too..."

You are such a silly little killjoy...

; 0 )

 

[Mustang Mountain Man]

Huh? That is what wren said? You must have a PhD in wren speak but there had to be an "Its all about Big Ten wins" somewhere in that pile.

Wren speak. Ha ha. Just plain, old English. Are you fishing for an insult? I'm plumb out of insults and wisecrack retorts today.

As I have told my kids often, don't tell me what you don't like. Tell me what you want. What is it that you want of me?