Kill is making

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Something We Can Agree Upon

Ski U Master said:
Well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Of course it is. All of this is based on beliefs. All beliefs are wrong but some are useful. I just happen to find basing your beliefs on Mason's philosophy/thinking not very useful.

We could discuss why but it this topic has been discussed ad-nauseam here before. It always has amazed how fans of Mason couldn't see why his attitude was the problem but they could see the problem with Brewster.
 

jovs said:
The past is kind of a road map for the future, obviously things aren't written in stone and they can change but you would be stupid not to let it impact your expectations. I think Mason won a fair share with talent he had. With an upgrade in talent and good coaching I hope Kill can surpass the success Mason had.

The USC game won't change perception of the program, the next three games will.
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The past helps understand the present, but does not need to be a road map for the future. That is the point of change.
 

I thought Mason was an okay coach. Fairly good on the field, but terrible as a promoter of the program. My guess is Kill has met with and shaken hands with more Minnesotans in four months than Mason did in ten years.

Is that going to translate on the field? Initially, a resounding no. But I believe that Kill can build the program up in all facets. I don't think the talent base is as horrendous as some have made it out to be. There is some decent experience and talent on the squad. It needs to be developed and fit into Kill's system. We are going to lose some games in the first year, what I will be watching for is how we lose those games.

Mason put together a solid, if unspectacular and inconsistent, program. His defenders make a number of valid points, but not even they can say that he hadn't plateaued. If that is as high as we go, fine. At least we have someone with more personality and identity leading the squad to that point.
 

If you forget the past, you're bound to repeat it. Here's to hoping that if/when Kill has us on top, that the years of Brewster/Mason/Wacker will make us enjoy it all the more.
 



Killjoy said:
What is ludicrous is that some of you are holding up Mason as the standard. That was my point along with the fact that Kill has already developed several winning programs which Mason was never able to accomplish at Minnesota. At least what I consider a winning program. If you want to worship at the Church of Mason that is your right but I am tired of people lighting candles for him. It is time to move on.
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Didn't Mason have a pretty good record at Kansas before coming to the U?
 


Except for Holtz, Kill is the first coach the U has hired with a winning record as a D-I head coach since Warmath.
 

Killjoy said:
What is ludicrous is that some of you are holding up Mason as the standard. That was my point along with the fact that Kill has already developed several winning programs which Mason was never able to accomplish at Minnesota. At least what I consider a winning program. If you want to worship at the Church of Mason that is your right but I am tired of people lighting candles for him. It is time to move on.
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From a resume standpoint (not W-L) what Mason did at Kansas far exceeds what Kill has done to this point. Sometimes I think no one on here is capable of having rational opinion of Mason. 75% hate him and the other 25% have irrational love. He was nothing more than an above average college football coach. He was also the best coach we've had in the last 25 years. Sadly those two things are both true. Kill if his track-record holds, will be at worst the second-best coach in the last 25 years and hopefully find his way to #1.
 



jovs said:
The USC game won't change perception of the program, the next three games will.
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OK, its a long, long shot, but if we win in LA, it will change the perception of the program. On the other hand, I see your point too.
 

Since I'm the one who brought Mason in to all of this, I'll bite (again). My point in bringing Mason up was very simply to say that I think Kill is most assuredly going to bring us to a more respectable level of football. Perhaps that is not the most earth shattering statement ever. My only point was that Mason achieved a level of success (not enough for most of us, hence the firing) and that Kill certainly, imo, will attain that based on what he's shown so far. However, with the history of this program I don't know how anyone can say with any degree of certainty whatsoever that Kill can produce more than that. We can hope and we can guess.

And yes, the BCS is definitely the big prize and not just a New Year's Bowl ... but c'mon how about at least a New Year's Bowl and not another trip to God-knows-where for the God-Knows-Where Bowl.
 

jags1998 said:
My only point was that Mason achieved a level of success (not enough for most of us, hence the firing
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I'd like to know who here, if any, thought Mason's conference record of 32–48 was a good enough level of success.
 




When we first made the hire, I absolutely HATED it. I thought that Maturi was just trying to screw over the program before he left and that we just didn't want to take the time to pursue anyone else. However, about two weeks after the hire, i started falling in love with it. For once, we have a guy that just focuses on football and teaching the kids we have to play football their best, unlike other coaches that talk big about winning or recruiting and can't coach for their life. I can't wait for this next season now!
 


Ok little buckaroos: here is the deal...

We will keep track of every single win and every single loss that Coach Kill has here at the U of M. IF he ever reaches the point of winning as many, or more games than the other coaches who were here before him, he will officially "surpass" the coach that he passes. Big Ten games count a hell of a lot more than the ooc games, but, we will keep track of every single game. We will also keep a specific Big Ten Standings chart.

So, the coaches that Coach Kill will be competing against are brewster, Mason, Wacker, Gutty, hoax, Salem, Stoll and Warmath. To go back further than that is probably not necessary and we will certainly have the past half century covered.

I wish Coach Kill the VERY best! However, I will grant him...I will give him NOTHING. He has to EARN it by winning football games. The other things he MUST do will be to run a completely clean and honest program AND graduate ever increasing numbers of student athletes from his program.

Don't some of you people EVER learn? Before you start proclaiming someone as the greatest Gopher Football Coach EVER, at least let the guy coach some games and see what the results are.

I sincerely do hope that Coach Kill can reach the level of competetivness with this program that Coach Mason achieved...that Coach Stoll achieved...that Coach Warmath achieved. But, DARN it people...BEFORE you can put him in that company, he has GOT to prove it on the field and in the Big Ten Standings charts.

I just can't BELIEVE the way some of you people hype your hope. This first season is going to be a very difficult season. Four or five wins (with 2 of them coming in Big Ten Play) may be about as good as it gets this season. Can't some of you just let it go by saying: I certainly do appreciate the way Coach Kill is going about preparing for his first season here at Minnesota?

Good luck to Coach Kill and his staff.

The thing is though, we will be keeping track of the wins and losses. We will notice just how competetive the team is against all the other Big Ten Teams that we play. In the end, it will be the number of Big Ten wins vs. the number of Big Ten losses that will tell us how well Coach Kill recruits, coaches, game plans and the Big Ten standings will tell us EXACTLY where Coach Kill ranks vs. the other Big Ten coaches. After a few years, we will be able to rank where he stands compared to the U of M coaches who have been here before him. It will be a simple Big Ten win vs Big Ten loss comparison.

It is SO very simple people. Your hype and hope means NOTHING. Only Wins and losses, running a completely honest and clean program and graduating ever increasing numbers of student athletes matter. I certainly DO hope someday that Coach Kill can match Coach Mason...Coach Stoll AND even Coach Warmath. (He would have to stay here 17 seasons to match Murray!) But, he will have to EARN that distinction with actual Big Ten wins vs. his Big Ten losses. Before any honors are handed out, those honors MUST be earned on the Big Ten Playing Fields. Big Ten Game Day Saturdays will tell us the the whole truth and nothing but the truth about our newest Golden Gopher Football coach. Good luck and best wishes Coach Kill!

Before any of you knock a 32-48 BigTen won/loss record too much, you had better have a clue about the Big Ten records of the other Gopher Coaches. I do NOT think you people understand what happened here during the WILDERNESS YEARS since the stinking vikings came to town in 1961. By the time Mason came here in 1997, the Gophers had been abandoned by the administration for a full 15 years since the Gophers had played on campus in the BRICK HOUSE. After the 1981 seasn final, the administration at the U of M abandoned football, abandoned the stadium and just plain abandoned the Gopher Football Team. Salem, hoax, Gutty and Wacker had all failed to get the job done. In the 15 years before Mason arrived, Salem, hoax, Gutty and Wacker had won a combined total of 34 Big Ten Football games. Mason won 32 in 10 seasons. brewster won 6 Big Ten games in 3 1/2 Big Ten seasons. Quite frankly, people, winning Big Ten Football games in Minneapolis has been a VERY difficult thing to do for a very long time.
 

The Babbling Season Has Begun

How many times can wren say the same thing over and over? He has again put Mason as the standared that we should judge Jerry Kill per ther following quote "I sincerely do hope that Coach Kill can reach the level of competetivness with this program that Coach Mason achieved...that Coach Stoll achieved...that Coach Warmath achieved. But, DARN it people...BEFORE you can put him in that company, he has GOT to prove it on the field and in the Big Ten Standings charts."

wren - I suggest you take your own advice and prove that you can say something new before you stand in judgement of others. Also by the way you might want to check Mason's record if you think that should be the target/standard.
 

killjoy, you silly little name caller...

The standard for Coach Kill IS the combination of brewster, Mason, Wacker, Gutty, hoax, Salem, Stoll AND Warmath. WHAT is your problem with that? They were the coaches who Coach Kill is following. Do you ask me to manufacture a NEW set of coaches to compare Coach Kill to???????? How about Bo, Woody, Joe PA, Fry, Bryant, Osborne, and Royal????????

You want to manufactre some new set of standards other than Big Ten record??????????

Coach Kill will be compared against other coaches who were football coaches here at the University of Minnesta Football Program. They are the ONLY coaches we have had to compare him with.

And, darn it, until Coach Kill has coached a game or two here at Minnesota, he has NO record. How can anyone in his/her right mind start talking "greatness" when there is NO record??????????

Hype is one thing. Hope is another thing. But, your "hyped-hope" is a total crock of crap, killjoy.

I will balance all of the crazy talk based on NO record...based on total "hyped-hope" by reminding people that there is a VERY simple way to actually rate, rank and evaluate a coach. That is by the body of that coaches work in terms of the number of Big Ten wins/losses that coach achieves at the University of Minnesota. We will be able to evaluate Coach Kill by comparing his record against people who have coaching records here at the University of Minnesota. Certainly, when he has a record, he can be compared against his peers in the Big Ten Conference. However, the ONLY apples to apples kind of approach to take is to compare him to the other coaches records AT the University of Minnesota.

It will NOT be your opinion vs. my opinion or Joe Blow's opinion. It will be actual numbers.

But, BEFORE any statements of geatness can be hung on Coach Kill as the University of Minnesota Football Coach, he HAS to have established a record here at the Univesity of Minnesota. THAT means he has to actually have coached some football games here at the University of Minnesota. THAT is the deal. Your over-hyped-hope crapola just doesn't cut it killjoy. ; 0 )
 

imthewalrus said:
The standard for Coach Kill IS the combination of brewster, Mason, Wacker, Gutty, hoax, Salem, Stoll AND Warmath. WHAT is your problem with that? They were the coaches who Coach Kill is following. Do you ask me to manufacture a NEW set of coaches to compare Coach Kill to???????? How about Bo, Woody, Joe PA, Fry, Bryant, Osborne, and Royal????????

You want to manufactre some new set of standards other than Big Ten record??????????

Coach Kill will be compared against other coaches who were football coaches here at the University of Minnesta Football Program. They are the ONLY coaches we have had to compare him with.

And, darn it, until Coach Kill has coached a game or two here at Minnesota, he has NO record. How can anyone in his/her right mind start talking "greatness" when there is NO record??????????

Hype is one thing. Hope is another thing. But, your "hyped-hope" is a total crock of crap, killjoy.

I will balance all of the crazy talk based on NO record...based on total "hyped-hope" by reminding people that there is a VERY simple way to actually rate, rank and evaluate a coach. That is by the body of that coaches work in terms of the number of Big Ten wins/losses that coach achieves at the University of Minnesota. We will be able to evaluate Coach Kill by comparing his record against people who have coaching records here at the University of Minnesota. Certainly, when he has a record, he can be compared against his peers in the Big Ten Conference. However, the ONLY apples to apples kind of approach to take is to compare him to the other coaches records AT the University of Minnesota.

It will NOT be your opinion vs. my opinion or Joe Blow's opinion. It will be actual numbers.

But, BEFORE any statements of geatness can be hung on Coach Kill as the University of Minnesota Football Coach, he HAS to have established a record here at the Univesity of Minnesota. THAT means he has to actually have coached some football games here at the University of Minnesota. THAT is the deal. Your over-hyped-hope crapola just doesn't cut it killjoy. ; 0 )
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As long as Coach K puts as much effort into coaching as you do into capitalizing random words, abusing punctuation marks, and beating dead horses, I think we'll be fine.
 

imthewalrus said:
Before any of you knock a 32-48 BigTen won/loss record too much, you had better have a clue about the Big Ten records of the other Gopher Coaches. I do NOT think you people understand what happened here during the WILDERNESS YEARS since the stinking vikings came to town in 1961. By the time Mason came here in 1997, the Gophers had been abandoned by the administration for a full 15 years since the Gophers had played on campus in the BRICK HOUSE. After the 1981 seasn final, the administration at the U of M abandoned football, abandoned the stadium and just plain abandoned the Gopher Football Team. Salem, hoax, Gutty and Wacker had all failed to get the job done. In the 15 years before Mason arrived, Salem, hoax, Gutty and Wacker had won a combined total of 34 Big Ten Football games. Mason won 32 in 10 seasons. brewster won 6 Big Ten games in 3 1/2 Big Ten seasons. Quite frankly, people, winning Big Ten Football games in Minneapolis has been a VERY difficult thing to do for a very long time.
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Mason was 32-48 in the BT (.400). Gutekunst was 18-28-2 in the BT (.391). Holtz was 7-10 in the BT (.412).
 

Yeah it's I can actually talk to some people about it with out getting weird looks like....you still fallow them...realllly??
 

Jeshurun said:
As long as Coach K puts as much effort into coaching as you do into capitalizing random words, abusing punctuation marks, and beating dead horses, I think we'll be fine.
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Winning.
 

harrys ghost said:
Mason was 32-48 in the BT (.400). Gutekunst was 18-28-2 in the BT (.391). Holtz was 7-10 in the BT (.412).
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Gutekunst gave us two winning Big Ten seasons in 6 years. Mason gave us two winning Big Ten seasons in 10 years. The difference was the cupcake schedules. Gutekunst won, on average 3.128 Big Ten games per season. Mason won on average, 3.200 Big Ten games per season. The difference was a mere 0.072 Big Ten wins per season. It's amazing how reviled Gutekunst often is, despite having a Big Ten record nearly identical to Mason's.
 


Since the mid 1960's it has been darn tough to win Big Ten football games at...

the University of Minnesota. THAT is the bottom line. THAT is our fact of life. THAT is what needs to brought up from time to time when all of the stinking hyped-hope is spouted about the "new" savior of the football program.

hoax followed the final Salem years and it SEEMED as though he was improving things...compared to the end of the Salem years.

Maybe Gutty rode the wave of the hoax crest...but, he was fired and Wacker (the new savior) was brought in. We know how the Wacker years played out.

Mason followed Wacker and at least made the program competetive again.

brewster followed Mason and he was thrown under the bus mid-season after only 3 1/2 seasons that seemed like 3 1/2 seasons too many.

Kill gets to follow the failed brewball experiment in which brewster averaged less than 2 Big Ten wins per season for 3 1/2 seasons. It should allow him to join the next level of Gopher Coaches relatively quickly. All he has to do is win more than 6 Big Ten games and he will surpass brewster. The next target for him to surpass after Brewster will be lou hoax who had a total of 7 Big Ten wins, had his own bag-man ( Luther Darville) and left the program in trouble with the NCAA in addition to killing the spirit of the newly growing Gopher Fan Base by bagging for Notre Dame before the season had even ended. A real LOW point of Golden Gopher Football....and so it goes...
; 0 )

Let's see how Kill does before we start saying he is so much better than anyone else. Believe me, I WANT Kill to be the next coming of Bernie Bierman...but...he has to SHOW me with wins, LOTS of Big Ten wins, and by running a completely clean and honest program and by graduating ever increasing numbers of student athletes. AND, he HAS to do better than brewster and Wacker and Salem in Big Ten play. IF he can at LEAST return us to being competetive in Big Ten play it will be a start. The 2011 season is going to be a difficult season for a new coach. I want to keep it all in perspective. Not too much "hype" needs to be randomly spread around by you "random hype.." spreader types. Let's let Coach Kill go about his business and see how it all works out in 2011. But, let's not try to say he is the greatest coach ever...yet. He is going to have to EARN that kind of praise by winning Big Ten Football Games...a LOT of Big Ten Football Games.

The mess of the years between the summer of 2002 and the present time reflects the horrible job that badger joel macturi has done with the football program. He has botched it...messed it up...and has been horribly incompetent with the launching of the new football palace. His incredibly POOR handling of contract management issues within just the football program is more than reason enough to have thrown him under the bus years ago. There can be NO discussion of the plight of Golden Gopher Football between the years of 2002 and 2011 without putting a LOT of blame on the dual-headed monster combination of prexy b AND badge joel macturi... ; 0 )
 

There's nothing wrong with being enthusiastic about Kill. Mason isn't a god. How did a .400 Big Ten record prove that Mason was a some coaching legend? WHY does Gutekunst get bashed so heavily while Mason is considered a legend?
 


This message is hidden because imthewalrus is on your ignore list.


:):)
 


Did I bash Gutty?????? No way.

I just say that it has been difficult for good football coaches to win at Minnesota. IF you really want an answer about Gutty, I think you will have to recall just how devistated lou hoax left the Gopher fan base in Minnesota when he bagged for Notre Dame while the season was still going on. He drove a spike into the heart of the Gopher Program. hoax not only left the program in trouble with the NCAA, but he BROKE the hearts of thousands of fans who had started taking an interest in Gopher Football. The public was jaded and the vikings had survived the "les steckle" fiasco that had coincided with hoax taking over at the U of M. The window of opportunity in this era had ENDED all too abruptly when hoax stole out of town in the middle of the night and NEVER looked back.

Blame any lack of respect shown by some for Gutty on lou "freaking" hoax.

Don't try to infer that I have knocked Gutty. I did feel sorry for him his last few years here though. He seemed almost depressed. Perhaps some of that was his own doing...

Don't try to set coach Kill up. Follow his lead. He is being low-keyed about not hyping expectations up too much for this 2011 season. It will be a very difficult season for a coach just taking over this program. I think he will do as well as could possibly be expected of him. Big Ten wins are a very precious commodity. Just don't overdo it with the "hype" factor. Follow the lead of Coach Kill. Be humble. Be patient. Let actions and works speak for you. The games will be sold out. Don't expect things that might ot happen. Let good fortune come along naturally. Don' try to "talk" a big game...just let the team "play" a big game.

The U of M is a tough gig. We know that. We have seen that. Only wins...one win at a time will make this situation better. ANY Big Ten win is a huge win. Start from where you start and BUILD. Big Ten win by Big Ten win the program will get better...will be better. Talk gets you no where.
 

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