Kill Hire=Get More With Less?

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GoGophers2005

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Getting more out of players with less talent. That is what I thought we were getting with Kill. Teaching discipline, better technique, putting players in position to make plays is what I was thinking we were getting. Having his assistants in place I figured we would have every minute of spring ball and fall practice accounted for in getting these players adjusted to whatever scheme Kill wanted to implement.

5 games into the season:
Where is the 'Stroke the Post'? Where is the better blocking/tackling technique? Where is the discipline on penalties and fumbling an easy handoff? Where is there a sliver of any game plan or team identity?

Please don't tell me that the players have dead legs because they were worked too hard before the season started, because that is on the coach not being able to assess his team.

Please, please, please do not tell me that you don't have the players because neither did NMSU or NDSU or even Purdue.

I don't know. I am probably the most frustrated I have ever been as a Gopher fan. Each week it gets worse. It is unwatchable.
 

Why did you not mention how different offensive and defensive systems this current team has gone through? How many games have they played with the current system?
 

Players aren't robots, coaches can teach discipline, but it can't simply be installed. Fumbling is just bad play, it doesn't have anything to do with discipline.
 

yes, 5 games into his Minnesota career, let's just fire him.

quit crying, getting real tired of these threads of, "WE DIDNT GET WHAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE GONNA GET FROM KILL".

how many of these lame threads do we really need? Tell you what, if you think you got screwed somehow, stop paying attention to Gopher football, and when they start to win again, you can jump back onto the fan-wagon and cheer for them until they screw you again.
 

It appears that football success is going to be a crap shoot one year to the next and really is going to depend on the individuals in the program in a given year.

I am really not so sure the coaching or anything else is going to greatly impact it. Lets face it we are never going to out recruit OSU or Michigan, some years we will compete because of specific individuals in the program others we won't. i really question the statement that I am going to recruit my type of player and it will have an impact. It hasn't for 35 years now, why will it start now.

Example: Mecklenburg, who would have ever predicted he would have the success he had, no one, sometimes you get a kid like that.
 


Gopher028 said:
yes, 5 games into his Minnesota career, let's just fire him.

quit crying, getting real tired of these threads of, "WE DIDNT GET WHAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE GONNA GET FROM KILL".

how many of these lame threads do we really need? Tell you what, if you think you got screwed somehow, stop paying attention to Gopher football, and when they start to win again, you can jump back onto the fan-wagon and cheer for them until they screw you again.
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This! This! THIS! Most of you idiots posting don't realize that 32 of the 59 people who played Saturday WERE UNDERCLASSMEN!!!!! What are you supposed to get out of a guy who was playing in high school last year???? They're playing against gigantic human beings. It would be like me fighting Lesnar.
 

It's not so much the losing as the lack of effort. The Gophers this year are bystanders at their own games (backfield excepted). Holtz took dregs and turned them into a disciplined team in one year - remember Najarian? Fry made an instant difference - you could see it on the field, despite a losing record (though his first year he threw a scare into mighty Nebraska, 21-24 or something like that - and beat them a couple of years later). In discipline, effort and smarts, the Gophers this year resemble the we-won't-play-for-this-coach bunch from '83. There is more going wrong than roster strength and game experience. The Gophers were utterly flat throughout the New Mexico State game, from the kickoff on, and have been flat for entire games since (Michigan, for example). This is on the coaches - they can't get these people to play for them.
 

Don't forget, year 1983 was year 5 under Salem. If the players won't play for the coach in year one, that's not nearly as disturbing as a coach losing control of the team in year 5.
 

The fry guy hired at McDonald's gets a longer probationary period than some fans are giving Kill. Kill isn't going anywhere until after Year 3 unless he dies, quits or gets caught with a cheerleader (high school that is). So stop bitching about what can't be changed and start bitching about what can. Maturi needs to be replaced. The game day experience and tailgating can be improved. Recruiting needs to be a top priority...we desperately need defensive linemen, cornerbacks and safeties who can make plays.
 



Kill isn't going for the quick fix here. There is a method to his madness. I trust what he is doing. I was all worked up watching that Purdue game too, until I finally realized, WE ARE PLAYING WITH 32 FRESHMAN.
 

Let's allow Kill to recruit and develop 2 or 3 recruiting classes under his system before we start looking for another coach.
 

GoGophers2005 said:
Getting more out of players with less talent. That is what I thought we were getting with Kill. Teaching discipline, better technique, putting players in position to make plays is what I was thinking we were getting. Having his assistants in place I figured we would have every minute of spring ball and fall practice accounted for in getting these players adjusted to whatever scheme Kill wanted to implement.

5 games into the season:
Where is the 'Stroke the Post'? Where is the better blocking/tackling technique? Where is the discipline on penalties and fumbling an easy handoff? Where is there a sliver of any game plan or team identity?

Please don't tell me that the players have dead legs because they were worked too hard before the season started, because that is on the coach not being able to assess his team.

Please, please, please do not tell me that you don't have the players because neither did NMSU or NDSU or even Purdue.

I don't know. I am probably the most frustrated I have ever been as a Gopher fan. Each week it gets worse. It is unwatchable.
Click to expand...

Then do us a favor and don't watch. There fixed it for you.
 

Take a close look at the upperclassman on this roster and you'll see why Kill is playing younger players. Have you ever seen a team with such a total lack of senior playmakers/leadership? I'm still waiting for one, just one, to step up and make a play. McKnight - he's too busy whining about lack of balls thrown his way and then dropping ones that do; Bennett - he appears to have regressed; Jacobs/Kirksey - they have been terrible; Wynn/Bunders/Orton - I sure hope we have some underclassman that can do more; Stoudermre/Salamon/Royston/Lewis/Johnson/Klitzke - our defensive backfield has been pretty bad; Tinsley/Sveum - Gary has been alright; Lair/McGarry - I thought our TEs were going to be a strong point; and finally Schwerman - let's just say our kicking game hasn't been too great. I'm sure that most of the players mentioned are nice guys and probably bust their butts but most average to good teams count on their upperclassmen to be the backbone of their team, the true leaders, and the ones that will go out there and make big plays. Any freshman that are good enough to contribute right away on these teams are a rare bonus. So how many of the above have truly been leaders and have made big plays? Then take a close look at our Juniors and you will see more of the same. Because the upperclassmen have not shown anything this many games in, Kill and Co. are likely coaching for next season and seeing what the younger players on the team can do. He's already seen what the upperclassmen can do and it's not pretty! Criticize Kill and his coordinators all you want but remember, they are our coaches, they have a plan, and it will take a while to implement the plan. Be patient. If you expected a total cultural change the first year I think you should probably be questioning yourself as to why you expected this. From day 1 Coach Kill recognized he had a major challenge in front of him and unfortunately he was spot on with his initial assessment.
 



The thing I am most disturbed by was when kill after game 5 said something like "we can't run the same things we ran at northern Illinois, we dont have the players"


When I am coaching, I could usually tell on about day 2 or 3 of practice if I was going to be able to do the same things we did last year. It took these guys 5 weeks to figure out they need to adapt some of their play calling to their players?

That's horrible.
 

46Gophers said:
Take a close look at the upperclassman on this roster and you'll see why Kill is playing younger players. Have you ever seen a team with such a total lack of senior playmakers/leadership? I'm still waiting for one, just one, to step up and make a play. McKnight - he's too busy whining about lack of balls thrown his way and then dropping ones that do; Bennett - he appears to have regressed; Jacobs/Kirksey - they have been terrible; Wynn/Bunders/Orton - I sure hope we have some underclassman that can do more; Stoudermre/Salamon/Royston/Lewis/Johnson/Klitzke - our defensive backfield has been pretty bad; Tinsley/Sveum - Gary has been alright; Lair/McGarry - I thought our TEs were going to be a strong point; and finally Schwerman - let's just say our kicking game hasn't been too great. I'm sure that most of the players mentioned are nice guys and probably bust their butts but most average to good teams count on their upperclassmen to be the backbone of their team, the true leaders, and the ones that will go out there and make big plays. Any freshman that are good enough to contribute right away on these teams are a rare bonus. So how many of the above have truly been leaders and have made big plays? Then take a close look at our Juniors and you will see more of the same. Because the upperclassmen have not shown anything this many games in, Kill and Co. are likely coaching for next season and seeing what the younger players on the team can do. He's already seen what the upperclassmen can do and it's not pretty! Criticize Kill and his coordinators all you want but remember, they are our coaches, they have a plan, and it will take a while to implement the plan. Be patient. If you expected a total cultural change the first year I think you should probably be questioning yourself as to why you expected this. From day 1 Coach Kill recognized he had a major challenge in front of him and unfortunately he was spot on with his initial assessment.
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I agree with what you're saying. I will say that I think Royston, Tinsley, and Bennett have been playing descent and seem to be working hard.

Schwerman doesn't play by the way. I actually think our kicking game/special teams has been a lot better than last year. There's still a lot of room for improvement but we have seen improvement without a doubt. Our net punting average right now is over 7 yards better than last year.
 

Rosemountian said:
The thing I am most disturbed by was when kill after game 5 said something like "we can't run the same things we ran at northern Illinois, we dont have the players"


When I am coaching, I could usually tell on about day 2 or 3 of practice if I was going to be able to do the same things we did last year. It took these guys 5 weeks to figure out they need to adapt some of their play calling to their players?

That's horrible.
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You must be some kind of coaching prodigy then. No matter how you run practice, there's nothing comparable to real game action. Things that worked great in practice may not work in game situations.
 

Rosemountian said:
The thing I am most disturbed by was when kill after game 5 said something like "we can't run the same things we ran at northern Illinois, we dont have the players"


When I am coaching, I could usually tell on about day 2 or 3 of practice if I was going to be able to do the same things we did last year. It took these guys 5 weeks to figure out they need to adapt some of their play calling to their players?

That's horrible.
Click to expand...
You know that he has said this since Spring Ball, don't you?
 

Rosemountian said:
The thing I am most disturbed by was when kill after game 5 said something like "we can't run the same things we ran at northern Illinois, we dont have the players"


When I am coaching, I could usually tell on about day 2 or 3 of practice if I was going to be able to do the same things we did last year. It took these guys 5 weeks to figure out they need to adapt some of their play calling to their players?

That's horrible.
Click to expand...

Clearly, we should've hired you.
 

GoGophers2005 said:
Getting more out of players with less talent. That is what I thought we were getting with Kill. Teaching discipline, better technique, putting players in position to make plays is what I was thinking we were getting. Having his assistants in place I figured we would have every minute of spring ball and fall practice accounted for in getting these players adjusted to whatever scheme Kill wanted to implement.

5 games into the season:
Where is the 'Stroke the Post'? Where is the better blocking/tackling technique? Where is the discipline on penalties and fumbling an easy handoff? Where is there a sliver of any game plan or team identity?

Please don't tell me that the players have dead legs because they were worked too hard before the season started, because that is on the coach not being able to assess his team.

Please, please, please do not tell me that you don't have the players because neither did NMSU or NDSU or even Purdue.

I don't know. I am probably the most frustrated I have ever been as a Gopher fan. Each week it gets worse. It is unwatchable.
Click to expand...

I don't see anywhere in this post where the author says Kill should be fired.

I really like Jerry Kill as a coach. I think he can do good things here. To be honest, after a brutal first half of his first season, I'm still more worried about him leaving early of his own accord than I am that he'll eventually be shown the door due to poor performance.

I also get why people would be tired of this subject. We all get it, I think.

That said, the core point made here is, I think, a valid one. A lot of us thought we were going to get a more disciplined team than this. None of us are BCS head football coaches (as far as I know), so we probably don't completely understand the situation, but it seems entirely reasonable to wonder about what the coaching staff is doing when we see what we see. I have faith in Coach Kill. But I expected this team, with this talent, to beat NDSU and New Mexico State. For the sake of balance, coming into the season I didn't expect to beat Miami, I didn't expect to even sniff a bowl, and in spite of the score I think I saw some growth with the Purdue game, especially on the defensive side of the ball, even though it was against another very down team.

But these games are ugly, they are hard to watch, and I'm also as frustrated as I've ever been as a Gopher fan. Maybe it's my own lack of perspective coming into this season, but if that's the case, it's a lack of perspective a lot of us shared.
 

Rosemountian said:
The thing I am most disturbed by was when kill after game 5 said something like "we can't run the same things we ran at northern Illinois, we dont have the players"


When I am coaching, I could usually tell on about day 2 or 3 of practice if I was going to be able to do the same things we did last year. It took these guys 5 weeks to figure out they need to adapt some of their play calling to their players?

That's horrible.
Click to expand...

I think we get too caught up in what he says to the media. It must be hell trying to come up with something new to say about getting smoked that you didn't say last week or even 2minutes ago. I wouldn't take it to mean really just realized something new.
 

I love how legitimate criticisms or concerns get twisted in to "fire the coach" by those who respond to the original point. I know of one person who has advocated firing Jerry Kill on this board, and GoGophers2005 is not that poster. There is a difference between under performing and what has happened so far this year. The argument of many who loved the Kill hire was exactly what the original poster laid out, and it was used to justify his recruiting as well as how the Gophers would perform in year one.
 

Rosemountian said:
The thing I am most disturbed by was when kill after game 5 said something like "we can't run the same things we ran at northern Illinois, we dont have the players"


When I am coaching, I could usually tell on about day 2 or 3 of practice if I was going to be able to do the same things we did last year. It took these guys 5 weeks to figure out they need to adapt some of their play calling to their players?

That's horrible.
Click to expand...

I know you think that all of this "I'm a coach" talk gives your posts some sort of instant legitimacy (or else you wouldn't do it on virtually every post), but in reality it just makes you come off like a d*uche.

You're welcome for the free advice.
 


Oneoldgopher said:
And, he hasn't made adjustments. If the plan sucks, adjust. It often is a minor thing.
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I suspect Coach Kill is more interested in installing his system and getting the younger players familiar with executing it (badly right now, and taking lumps while doing so) rather than trying to win this season. He's operating on a different time horizon than most of the malcontents posting here.
 

91 CLA Grad said:
I suspect Coach Kill is more interested in installing his system and getting the younger players familiar with executing it (badly right now, and taking lumps while doing so) rather than trying to win this season. He's operating on a different time horizon than most of the malcontents posting here.
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Correct. Install your systems and stick as closely to them as possible, even if the current personnel doesn't match the system well. Pays dividends in years to come.

58-0 is a loss in the same way 28-27 is a loss. This team wasn't going to win football games anyway. Might as well teach the things that will be used in the future.
 

Really?

58-0 in the terms of wins and losses is the same as losing 28-27 but in reality it is not.

Games even losses say a lot to the fan base.
28-27 is probably an exciting, close game that comes down to the very end of the game and has fans interested and entertained.

58-0 says hey guys thanks for coming we hope to see you next season.
 

WolfontheProwl said:
58-0 in the terms of wins and losses is the same as losing 28-27 but in reality it is not.

Games even losses say a lot to the fan base.
28-27 is probably an exciting, close game that comes down to the very end of the game and has fans interested and entertained.

58-0 says hey guys thanks for coming we hope to see you next season.
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So run stuff in years one and two to not get totally blown out, then run the new stuff you really wanna run in years three and four? How does that make sense?
 

GophersInIowa said:
I agree with what you're saying. I will say that I think Royston, Tinsley, and Bennett have been playing descent and seem to be working hard.

Schwerman doesn't play by the way. I actually think our kicking game/special teams has been a lot better than last year. There's still a lot of room for improvement but we have seen improvement without a doubt. Our net punting average right now is over 7 yards better than last year.
Click to expand...

I have to seriously disagree with you on Royston - I think he has been TERRIBLE. He seems scared to get involved in a play - he's always standing back, letting plays come to him, not being aggressive. I've been more disappointed in his play than anyone else's.
 

I'm not looking at firing Jerry Kill or anything close to that. My whole point was trying to say that I'm as confused as the players seem to be. Brewster was fired because he did not run a disciplined team and it led to his team losing. I thought overnight Kill and all of his assistants could come in and bring some much needed order to the situation and in year one see, not any more wins, but show that this team is headed in the right direction in terms of discipline, technique and effort. What has actually happened is the opposite. We are worse in all 3 categories. More turnovers, more dumb penalties, and the effort has maybe never been worse in the history of Gopher football.

As a fan I am totally confused as to how Big 10 players cannot grasp an offensive or defensive scheme 8 weeks into a season. I can see how an offense can be shaky at first, but not a defense....especially a defense with a TON of letterman and upperclassman on the field.
 

It's not that they don't get it, they don't want to get it. It isn't like they are all out there busting their ass every play. It's been said by players coaches and fans. A lot of the upperclassman have checked out.
 

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