Kill can recruit!

[golden]

Exactly, it IS difficult to tell who is at fault or if they are doing a good job based on "scheme", however, you can see effort level and a lot of man to man situation plays to help decifer.

Wells/Thompson were true freshman and IMPROVED immensly over 2011 to 2012. Their angles, speed, and coverage skills all improved.

As for Royston, in the open field, if he was responsible for 1 guy in coverage, he didn't do well. If he was a roving safety, he did a nice job of helping out, reading the QB ect. Man to Man coveage seemed like a weaknesss. Also, if a RB was being tripped up or he had help coming he did a nice job of making a ton of tackles. If he a RB was coming at him in the open field, and he was by himself, he missed that tackle far more than he made it.

Sorry this turned into the board vs. me on Royston being great vs. Royston being so-so. My intent was to praise Kill for recruiting football players that weren't highly rated.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I've watched FB for over 40 years as a fan, and an occasional member of the media - but I don't pretend to be an "expert."

Let me just say this - I expect SF24 to stick up for his son. But the whole issue of parents, players and coaches can be very difficult to navigate. I accept that SF24 tries to keep things in perspective, but in my experience, almost all parents have blinders on to some extent when it comes to their children. I went through this with my brother and my nephew, and I've seen it 1st-hand more times than I can count. I've seen parents complain about their kids not getting playing time when their child was clearly not good enough to deserve playing time. I've also seen parents of very good players who second-guessed every move the coach made, because they felt the coach was not "showcasing" their child enough - i.e. "we would have won the game if my kid would have run the ball more, etc."

My personal opinion - Kim Royston did the best he could for the Gophers, and he deserves credit for coming back from a severe injury. I would classify him as a good, but not great player - but, SF24 - I think most parents would be thrilled to be able to say that their son was a good D-1 FB player.

 

[WHB Brewer]

Wells back to corner? It depends. That is a hell of jump from corner to safety. Kim was a safety in name only at Wisconsin (he really was nickel corner) and it took him 4 or 5 games to get comfortable in 2009. Had to learning tackling angles from that position which is completely different from being on the edge at corner.

I thought Troy would have made the transition better than any of them because he is a very physical corner. Today's safety has to be a combo player (cover and tackle), that's tough to do in the Big Ten. If the players in front of Wells play the run better and he improves some versus the run, I think he has All Conference written all over him. If not i agree with you, he should go back to corner because he has a future there as well (pun not intended). The bottom line is it won't matter who plays safety until we improve in the run game with the front seven....schematically and individual performance wise.

The thing I like that Kill has done is he has brought in football players. They all seem to be good enough to play at his level it's just where?

I agree with this statement. We have a lot of pieces, just have not gotten all of them in the right position. We also seem to lack athletes at LB, guys who can fill the gaps and make a tackle. Probably part of the reason for the Lamonte Edwards experiment. I hope that can improve with some of the young guys who we will depend on next season.

 

[WorkingMyTailOff]

Here Here Short Ornery One. I think we all appreciate the way Kim Royston played, and like Golden, we like the improvements we are seeing on the defensive side of the ball. We're moving on up!

 

[Killjoy]

I've watched FB for over 40 years as a fan, and an occasional member of the media - but I don't pretend to be an "expert."

I have always enjoyed your humility and thoughtful comments. Maybe Gopherprof could learn something from you. Nah, I doubt it.

 

[Sportsfan24]

Exactly, it IS difficult to tell who is at fault or if they are doing a good job based on "scheme", however, you can see effort level and a lot of man to man situation plays to help decifer.

Wells/Thompson were true freshman and IMPROVED immensly over 2011 to 2012. Their angles, speed, and coverage skills all improved.

As for Royston, in the open field, if he was responsible for 1 guy in coverage, he didn't do well. If he was a roving safety, he did a nice job of helping out, reading the QB ect. Man to Man coveage seemed like a weaknesss. Also, if a RB was being tripped up or he had help coming he did a nice job of making a ton of tackles. If he a RB was coming at him in the open field, and he was by himself, he missed that tackle far more than he made it.

Sorry this turned into the board vs. me on Royston being great vs. Royston being so-so. My intent was to praise Kill for recruiting football players that weren't highly rated.

No apology needed. You have an opinion, I just don't agree with it.

You try and insinuate his production was based on scheme, yet you fail to recognize he was extremely productive in two completely different schemes.

You have Kim missing a ton of tackles while leading the Big Ten in tackles and ranking 16th in the nation in making tackles? I guess nobody else on the team ever tackled or attempted to tackle anyone...it was all Kim. He either made all the tackles or missed all the tackles (lol). The truth is the secondary as a whole made the overwhelming majority of the tackles on the team with GT ranking I believe 2nd in tackles.

You mentioned angles and speed improving. Hate to tell you this but the tackling angles (lack there of) were the primary tackling issue for this year’s secondary (safeties) and the secondary speed is NOT improved.

Troy is not faster than Kyle Henderson, Mike Carter is certainly not faster than Brock Vereen, Ced Thompson/Brock are not faster than a very speedy Christyn Lewis (neither is anyone else in the 2011 or 2012 secondary/team). Derrick Wells is faster than the 2012 version (injured) of Kim but that version of Kim was lights out more productive. Overall the 2011 secondary is faster at 3 of the 4 positions. With that being said, speed don't always equate to football playing ability.

Praise for Kill? If you have to border on just plain silly you lose credibility and undermine your point. Can Kill coach? Yes. Can he recruit at this level? Remains to be seen....which at this point is understandable.

Note: I have never said he was better than anyone else and I have yet to say he was bad, okay, good or great as a player. I just quote his accomplishments and leave it at that. What you need to realize is that you are basing alot of your opinion on what you think you know....hopefully I have done a reasonable job pointing out to you that....you don't know to much so don't be so married to the opinion that I do admit you're entitled to have.

I will do something I have NEVER done on this or any board. Share with you guys a conversation I had with Kim. Being the jerk that I am I tried to get a rise out of him by telling him about your comments about his playing ability. His response?

He said "that's so disrespectfull" and laughed.

 

[Gopherprof]

I have always enjoyed your humility and thoughtful comments. Maybe Gopherprof could learn something from you. Nah, I doubt it.

Little butthurt that I called you out? Not capable of actually responding to my post? I make plenty of "thoughtful comments". The one that you specifically didn't like criticized you for saying the exact same mindless thing over and over, which is exactly what you do. Don't get mad, it's not personal, I'm just tired of you saying the same thing all the time.

 

[Sportsfan24]

I've watched FB for over 40 years as a fan, and an occasional member of the media - but I don't pretend to be an "expert."

Let me just say this - I expect SF24 to stick up for his son. But the whole issue of parents, players and coaches can be very difficult to navigate. I accept that SF24 tries to keep things in perspective, but in my experience, almost all parents have blinders on to some extent when it comes to their children. I went through this with my brother and my nephew, and I've seen it 1st-hand more times than I can count. I've seen parents complain about their kids not getting playing time when their child was clearly not good enough to deserve playing time. I've also seen parents of very good players who second-guessed every move the coach made, because they felt the coach was not "showcasing" their child enough - i.e. "we would have won the game if my kid would have run the ball more, etc."

My personal opinion - Kim Royston did the best he could for the Gophers, and he deserves credit for coming back from a severe injury. I would classify him as a good, but not great player - but, SF24 - I think most parents would be thrilled to be able to say that their son was a good D-1 FB player.

The way I see it some folks try to devalue my opinion by playing the parent card, when they dont' possess the facts for theirs. Your assertion of good but not great in my opinion is one that can't be argued against.

However; wouldn't make the top six in this years secondary, couldn't cover, missed a ton of tackles......yeah I take issue with that. But then I also took issue with the insane comments about Adam Weber who I'm pretty sure isn't my son.

Please give me a little more credit than that; I always offer up more than just an opinion when I post. Side note: Have those parents ever been correct and the coach wrong? As a coach I know I have been wrong. Even a broke clock is right twice a day.

 

[Killjoy]

Little butthurt that I called you out? Not capable of actually responding to my post? I make plenty of "thoughtful comments". The one that you specifically didn't like criticized you for saying the exact same mindless thing over and over, which is exactly what you do. Don't get mad, it's not personal, I'm just tired of you saying the same thing all the time.

I don't care or mind if you call me out. I also am getting tired of pointing out again and again that some of you really don't know what you are talking about. I am sure that you have read Kim's dad posts. You don't need to agree with them to realize that what he is pointing out is that the game of football is much more complicated than most of us understand or realize. Yet some of us seem to have no problem in jumping to all kinds of conclusions. That is one of the reasons that I really do appreciate it when dpodoll calls people out when they make false and incorrect statements. I am afraid though that I don't have the energy or the interest in doing that. Instead, I choose to use a very generic statement when I see it happening. Yes, I am very lazy.

P.S. One of the reasons I didn't respond to your request to discuss Mitch Leidner's situation I didn't think I had anything especially worth saying or insight on that subject.

 

[Deleted_User]

First off to your qualifications....thank god you have those to see that the LB's were terrible this year. Us non-coaches who didn't see every minute of every game clearly couldn't see that.

You say you are not out to get Royston yet you keep going after him. The entire secondary was a liability last year because we had zero pass rush so QB's could just sit in the pocket, check their e-mail, then throw to an open receiver because no DB can stay with a receiver forever if the QB has all the time in the world to throw.

As for ability to play in the NFL being the only indicator of how good a player is that is just complete BS. Do you realize how few guys actually make it to the NFL? Royston was a solid player who came back from a MAJOR leg injury and played as best he could on a crappy defense. Those impact guys you listed above....one, maybe two of them will get a true look in the NFL and they won't be top round guys.

I'm not Kim's dad but not really sure why you feel the need to pin all the deficiencies in the secondary on him. Seems like there were 3 other DB's and 7 other defenders out there with him as well. Our pass D got better this year because we actually managed to generate a pass rush from time to time against the teams that liked to throw the ball.

I don't think he pinned anything on anybody. He made a few points and you seem to be getting that atomic wedgie feeling. Since when did this thread become about Kim? SF24 makes a few benign posts and suddenly it is all about Kim. Sheesh.

 

[mplsbadger]

Royston probably gets unfairly criticized because the most visible missed tackle was when Ball gave him that shake. For a guy who scored 39 TD's not many of them were that pretty and that video got played over and over. Kim wouldn't have been near the top of the league in tackles if he didn't have a nose for it.

 

[matt]

I don't care or mind if you call me out. I also am getting tired of pointing out again and again that some of you really don't know what you are talking about.

And we are getting tired of hearing it.

 

[Parski1]

Little butthurt that I called you out? Not capable of actually responding to my post? I make plenty of "thoughtful comments". The one that you specifically didn't like criticized you for saying the exact same mindless thing over and over, which is exactly what you do. Don't get mad, it's not personal, I'm just tired of you saying the same thing all the time.

Ouch....he said your butthurt.

 

[Tee09]

You mentioned angles and speed improving. Hate to tell you this but the tackling angles (lack there of) were the primary tackling issue for this year’s secondary (safeties) and the secondary speed is NOT improved.

Troy is not faster than Kyle Henderson, Mike Carter is certainly not faster than Brock Vereen, Ced Thompson/Brock are not faster than a very speedy Christyn Lewis (neither is anyone else in the 2011 or 2012 secondary/team). Derrick Wells is faster than the 2012 version (injured) of Kim but that version of Kim was lights out more productive. Overall the 2011 secondary is faster at 3 of the 4 positions. With that being said, speed don't always equate to football playing ability.

Praise for Kill? If you have to border on just plain silly you lose credibility and undermine your point. Can Kill coach? Yes. Can he recruit at this level? Remains to be seen....which at this point is understandable.

Note: I have never said he was better than anyone else and I have yet to say he was bad, okay, good or great as a player. I just quote his accomplishments and leave it at that. What you need to realize is that you are basing alot of your opinion on what you think you know....hopefully I have done a reasonable job pointing out to you that....you don't know to much so don't be so married to the opinion that I do admit you're entitled to have.

I will do something I have NEVER done on this or any board. Share with you guys a conversation I had with Kim. Being the jerk that I am I tried to get a rise out of him by telling him about your comments about his playing ability. His response?

He said "that's so disrespectfull" and laughed.

Apparently nobody watched the bad angles and failure to wrap up by our safeties during the second half of this season. Wells in particular had me reaching for my drink pretty often. Kim wasn't the problem in 2011. Yeah, he was a step slow a couple times, but that'll happen when you're hurt. Overall, one of our few reliable tacklers who saved other guys' asses way more than he should have had to. At least, that's how I remember that season.

We need some linebackers to step up next year. The line is improving, the secondary will probably take a step back with losing Carter and Troy. It could happen. Nobody expected anything out of Campbell and Triplett until they suddenly were good.

 

[Killjoy]

Ouch....he said your butthurt.

He was just trying to impress people with his vocabulary.

 

[e.bigelow]

The way I see it some folks try to devalue my opinion by playing the parent card, when they dont' possess the facts for theirs. Your assertion of good but not great in my opinion is one that can't be argued against.

However; wouldn't make the top six in this years secondary, couldn't cover, missed a ton of tackles......yeah I take issue with that. But then I also took issue with the insane comments about Adam Weber who I'm pretty sure isn't my son.

Please give me a little more credit than that; I always offer up more than just an opinion when I post. Side note: Have those parents ever been correct and the coach wrong? As a coach I know I have been wrong. Even a broke clock is right twice a day.

Now, the bold part. There is one thing I agree with you on Sportsfan24. Some of the Adam Weber comments some made on here were absolutely ridiculous. Even though I may disagree with you on a lot of things, do respect your opinion.