Kicker/Punter

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This was a key difference in the game. Tough to beat Michigan when you give them a short field every time. And we were down to backup kickers (3rd string?), one of whom is recovering from hernia surgery. Oof... Looks like a string of bad luck in a bad luck year. Hopefully we can use Maryland & Illinois to bounce back.
 

It doesn't matter who was out and who wasn't, that Special Teams situation was so far from acceptable it's not remotely funny. WTF. There's gotta be 10-15 High School players in the metro area that can KO and punt better than what happened Saturday night.

In a game of field position, this is just not acceptable at the Power 5 level.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
maybe this is too simplistic:

But the Gophers have 85 scholarship players plus walk-ons. that is close to 100 athletes - all of whom were stars or really good players in HS.

And there isn't 1 guy out of the whole bunch who can kick a bleepin' football off a tee down to the 10 yard line?

there isn't 1 guy out of the whole bunch who was a punter in HS and can punt the ball more than 30 yards in the air?

I watch high school players at small schools do those things all the time. But the Gophers' entire roster has no one capable of doing that?

If I was Fleck, at Monday's practice, every player on the team would take turns trying kick-offs and punting. there has to be one guy who can do better than what we saw Saturday night. that was embarrassing.
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I don't think converting position players into anything close to respectable Big 10 caliber punters/place kickers is that simple.
 

The squib kick was a bad idea. They nearly took one back to the house.

Switched to the "sky ball" approach, and that worked reasonably well the rest of the game. Caused a fumble and shoud've recovered that one, missed opportunity.


The punting really ____ed us. Certain it led Fleck to go for it with the fake, on our own 30 (or in that area). I'm sure the guy kicked it well enough in practice. Just choked in the game. Feel bad for him. Is what it is.
 

Ope3 said:
I don't think converting position players into anything close to respectable Big 10 caliber punters/place kickers is that simple.
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You're not entirely wrong, but I would guess you underestimate the number of guys playing at smaller schools that played 2, 3 or even 4 or more different positions in HS football. You're right about them maybe not being "respectable B1G caliber P/PK" but on Saturday night, nothing they put on the field was close to that.

The punting and KO effort on Saturday was not just subpar for B1G play; it was a JV HS caliber performance. Seriously.
 


MplsGopher said:
The squib kick was a bad idea. They nearly took one back to the house.

Switched to the "sky ball" approach, and that worked reasonably well the rest of the game. Caused a fumble and shoud've recovered that one, missed opportunity.


The punting really ____ed us. Certain it led Fleck to go for it with the fake, on our own 30 (or in that area). I'm sure the guy kicked it well enough in practice. Just choked in the game. Feel bad for him. Is what it is.
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Agreed. As for the fake, I would have felt better about just going for it with the regular offense. After one punt, there was really zero element of surprise.
 

MplsGopher said:
The squib kick was a bad idea. They nearly took one back to the house.

Switched to the "sky ball" approach, and that worked reasonably well the rest of the game. Caused a fumble and shoud've recovered that one, missed opportunity.


The punting really ____ed us. Certain it led Fleck to go for it with the fake, on our own 30 (or in that area). I'm sure the guy kicked it well enough in practice. Just choked in the game. Feel bad for him. Is what it is.
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I'm not sure how much practice either of these guys got. I don't think they were even cleared to play until late Thursday/early Friday.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
I'm not sure how much practice either of these guys got. I don't think they were even cleared to play until late Thursday/early Friday.
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I'd be shocked if they weren't practicing on their own. Really irresponsible if they weren't.
 

Anyone that is a good athlete can punt better than what they saw. Ask around the team, find someone that punted in high school and get them in there.
 




Replacement Gopher said:
They could have had it, and now test negative, but the Big Ten 21-day sit rule would mean they still need to sit even though they are no longer positive.

Perhaps they ease up on this rule given the Wisconsin QB.
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I could see it, in that case I would hope PJ and who ever else had players out but testing negative for the first week raise hell (did penn state have any? Could've been the difference for them). Would we have won against michigan? Maybe, maybe not, but it's obvious that it put us at a disadvantage and changing it now would be blatantly unfair and hard to come up with an excuse that wouldn't have been known before the season.
 

Post #22: Obviously they did not audition a kickoff guy or punter from the 100 plus team candidates. Not very resourceful.
If you are gonna fake the punt and have to run that play...then line up Seth Green as your blocker and ultimate runner. He could see the other side was open despite the design of the play. Kieft needs a highway lane to get 7 yards.
 

60's Guy said:
Post #22: Obviously they did not audition a kickoff guy or punter from the 100 plus team candidates. Not very resourceful.
If you are gonna fake the punt and have to run that play...then line up Seth Green as your blocker and ultimate runner. He could see the other side was open despite the design of the play. Kieft needs a highway lane to get 7 yards.
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On your point about the fake punt, if Green is out there on punt protection then I agree would be better to use a guy like him but if he is not out there usually you can't just run him in there as that would be a clear indication to the other team that a fake is coming. Have to run the fake with the personnel you always use or just go for it with your regular offense.

And many are way way way oversimplifying the kicker thing. It is easy as a fan to say it should be easy to find someone who can stand back there and punt the ball or a guy who can boom a kickoff but the reality is it doesn't work that way. I will give that maybe you can find someone that can run up and kick the ball hard but they also have to be able to get lift and make sure that the ball goes in the right direction.

Punting is way harder. Sure you can find someone who can catch a ball and kick it a long ways but it is very different when you have 10-11 guys on the other team looking to block the kick. You have to be able to catch it clean, and then hit it accurately while doing it all quickly and being ready to adjust to someone flying at you trying to block it.

Kind of surprising how easy some people think it is to find good kickers when they see week in and week out the struggles that college and NFL teams have with their kicking games.
 



MNVCGUY said:
On your point about the fake punt, if Green is out there on punt protection then I agree would be better to use a guy like him but if he is not out there usually you can't just run him in there as that would be a clear indication to the other team that a fake is coming. Have to run the fake with the personnel you always use or just go for it with your regular offense.

And many are way way way oversimplifying the kicker thing. It is easy as a fan to say it should be easy to find someone who can stand back there and punt the ball or a guy who can boom a kickoff but the reality is it doesn't work that way. I will give that maybe you can find someone that can run up and kick the ball hard but they also have to be able to get lift and make sure that the ball goes in the right direction.

Punting is way harder. Sure you can find someone who can catch a ball and kick it a long ways but it is very different when you have 10-11 guys on the other team looking to block the kick. You have to be able to catch it clean, and then hit it accurately while doing it all quickly and being ready to adjust to someone flying at you trying to block it.

Kind of surprising how easy some people think it is to find good kickers when they see week in and week out the struggles that college and NFL teams have with their kicking games.
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In general, most of what you're saying here is not wrong.

But with what we saw last Saturday, we're not really comparing apples to apples. There's a QUANTUM difference between being able to kick a 42-yd FG and being able to hit a KO that goes past the 20-25 yard line. Forget about scholarship players; any kicker anywhere near the roster as even a walk-on is able to kick the ball inside the 5 or at least the 10, with even a reasonable amount of hangtime.

You are correct, punting IS harder, but the product that was on the field Saturday.... ooooffff. Punting most definitely IS a lot tougher than most understand but this isn't SE Louisiana St. There has to be a more palatable option available.

This all goes to a larger underlying issue, bringing even more light to what many are already well aware of; from a Special Teams standpoint, this team has been woefully underprepared for essentially all of Fleck's regime here. I don't know if Wenger has incriminating pictures of Fleck or Coyle but there's a major issue there. I'm really shocked Wenger is still employed with the Gophers
 

Plausible Deniability said:
In general, most of what you're saying here is not wrong.

But with what we saw last Saturday, we're not really comparing apples to apples. There's a QUANTUM difference between being able to kick a 42-yd FG and being able to hit a KO that goes past the 20-25 yard line. Forget about scholarship players; any kicker anywhere near the roster as even a walk-on is able to kick the ball inside the 5 or at least the 10, with even a reasonable amount of hangtime.

You are correct, punting IS harder, but the product that was on the field Saturday.... ooooffff. Punting most definitely IS a lot tougher than most understand but this isn't SE Louisiana St. There has to be a more palatable option available.

This all goes to a larger underlying issue, bringing even more light to what many are already well aware of; from a Special Teams standpoint, this team has been woefully underprepared for essentially all of Fleck's regime here. I don't know if Wenger has incriminating pictures of Fleck or Coyle but there's a major issue there. I'm really shocked Wenger is still employed with the Gophers
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Think the Special teams coach should get a pass for week 1. When you are down your starting kicker, punter, and kickoff specialist and also have a guy coming off of hernia surgery as one of your few options things are going to be rough. And on the flip side they did manage to block the one punt Michigan attempted.

I do agree that special teams needs to take a step forward in general and has been a disappointment for the majority of the Fleck era to this point. Just don't really want to grade the 2020 special teams unit until we actually see the regulars out there.
 

Plausible Deniability said:
In general, most of what you're saying here is not wrong.

But with what we saw last Saturday, we're not really comparing apples to apples. There's a QUANTUM difference between being able to kick a 42-yd FG and being able to hit a KO that goes past the 20-25 yard line. Forget about scholarship players; any kicker anywhere near the roster as even a walk-on is able to kick the ball inside the 5 or at least the 10, with even a reasonable amount of hangtime.

You are correct, punting IS harder, but the product that was on the field Saturday.... ooooffff. Punting most definitely IS a lot tougher than most understand but this isn't SE Louisiana St. There has to be a more palatable option available.

This all goes to a larger underlying issue, bringing even more light to what many are already well aware of; from a Special Teams standpoint, this team has been woefully underprepared for essentially all of Fleck's regime here. I don't know if Wenger has incriminating pictures of Fleck or Coyle but there's a major issue there. I'm really shocked Wenger is still employed with the Gophers
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Yeah, given all the circumstances, this is definitely quite an overreaction. Let's check back in Week 5 or 6 and see if the same issues have persisted
 

WriterGoph said:
Yeah, given all the circumstances, this is definitely quite an overreaction. Let's check back in Week 5 or 6 and see if the same issues have persisted
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WE TALK'N ABOUT WEEK 1, NOT THE SEASON! NOT THE SEASON! WEEK 1
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The 21 day rule is really dumb. If they test negative multiple times, and are allowed on the sideline, then why aren't they allowed to play? It doesn't make sense.
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The 21 day rule is longer than the CDC 10 day rule because the big ten is worried about the heart issue that most are not thinking about.

it is what it is and the big ten has decided it is worth it to sit them out to mitigate that risk.
 

Some guy said:
The 21 day rule is longer than the CDC 10 day rule because the big ten is worried about the heart issue that most are not thinking about.

it is what it is and the big ten has decided it is worth it to sit them out to mitigate that risk.
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And re-conditioning time so they don't get injured immediately when they return. There is a limit on the number of hours that can be spent in (coach lead?) practices any given week. On top of that, add going to classes and school work and it means there is only so much time an athlete can spend to recondition after spending (on average) 2 weeks not doing anything while recovering. The least thing anyone wants is someone sitting out let's say 2 weeks, and then immediately suffering a preventable muscle injury that takes them out the rest of the season.
 

No reason you can't recruit someone this week either. Put an add in the school paper. Put it out on Twitter. Punter wanted. Full ride scholarship available for the rest of your 2020 year. If nothing else, the special teams crew should be conducting open tryouts this week.
 

WriterGoph said:
Yeah, given all the circumstances, this is definitely quite an overreaction. Let's check back in Week 5 or 6 and see if the same issues have persisted
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All things considered (and I'm a self-proclaimed ST nerd for various reasons), I don't think this is that much of an overreaction. I have no doubt that things will be better when the starters get back in, absolutely. But holy shit, kicking off is NOT that difficult. It was kind of disturbing what we saw on Saturday. The punting was absolute shit, but punting brings a whole other set of challenges too.

It's pretty damn odd on a roster of 100+ (I think?) that the home team couldn't KO better than that, isn't it?
 

Go Gophs said:
No reason you can't recruit someone this week either. Put an add in the school paper. Put it out on Twitter. Punter wanted. Full ride scholarship available for the rest of your 2020 year. If nothing else, the special teams crew should be conducting open tryouts this week.
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Wish I had some eligibility left.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
All things considered (and I'm a self-proclaimed ST nerd for various reasons), I don't think this is that much of an overreaction. I have no doubt that things will be better when the starters get back in, absolutely. But holy shit, kicking off is NOT that difficult. It was kind of disturbing what we saw on Saturday. The punting was absolute shit, but punting brings a whole other set of challenges too.

It's pretty damn odd on a roster of 100+ (I think?) that the home team couldn't KO better than that, isn't it?
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I don't know that many people who could kick a football 50 yards in the air. Maaaybe one or two ex-soccer player friends. But when you have 4 guys on a roster who specialize in or can handle that duty, you've probably covered your bases in all other scenarios. But when 3 of those are out due to COVID guidelines and the 4th is recovering from a sports hernia, really not sure what else a coach is supposed to do. You think most teams have FIVE guys who can handle kickoffs?
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
All things considered (and I'm a self-proclaimed ST nerd for various reasons), I don't think this is that much of an overreaction. I have no doubt that things will be better when the starters get back in, absolutely. But holy shit, kicking off is NOT that difficult. It was kind of disturbing what we saw on Saturday. The punting was absolute shit, but punting brings a whole other set of challenges too.

It's pretty damn odd on a roster of 100+ (I think?) that the home team couldn't KO better than that, isn't it?
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In fairness to the kickers and special teams unit we had one bad kickoff in the game that resulted in a long return. We kicked off 5 times, 1 return netted 66 yards, the other 4 netted a combined 0 yards. In terms of field position, leaving out the one long return, Michigan got the ball on their own, 30, 30, 23, and 32. I would say that is pretty damn good.

I have not rewatched the one long return to see where the breakdown was but I think a little too much is being made about the kickoffs. I was actually a little surprised at just how well we actually did on the other 4 kicks when I went back and looked at the Play by Play. Certainly was not my impression from having watched the game live.

The Punts on the other hand were ugly but as has been discussed in this thread, Punting is much harder and not something just anyone can do well.
 

Go Gophs said:
No reason you can't recruit someone this week either. Put an add in the school paper. Put it out on Twitter. Punter wanted. Full ride scholarship available for the rest of your 2020 year. If nothing else, the special teams crew should be conducting open tryouts this week.
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Actually the practice facility is closed to outsiders due to Covid rules, so I would think holding an open tryout is not possible.
 

MNVCGUY said:
The Punts on the other hand were ugly but as has been discussed in this thread, Punting is much harder and not something just anyone can do well.
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Stephenson's first 2 punts were really bad, going for 31 and 18 yards. His last 2 punts though were much better, going for 45 and 46 yards. The last one looked like it would've gone a few more yards but I think a gopher picked up the ball before it stopped rolling. Both punts pinning Michigan at their own 13/14 yardline. For a backup punter in his first big game action, it really wasn't the worst performance imaginable.
 

RogueGopher said:
Stephenson's first 2 punts were really bad, going for 31 and 18 yards. His last 2 punts though were much better, going for 45 and 46 yards. The last one looked like it would've gone a few more yards but I think a gopher picked up the ball before it stopped rolling. Both punts pinning Michigan at their own 13/14 yardline. For a backup punter in his first big game action, it really wasn't the worst performance imaginable.
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And both of his early shanks only resulted in Mich FG attempts -- both missed. The only thing that went wrong for them the whole night, it seemed.

The only two times where short-fields bit our D for Michigan TD's were on the fake punt failed conversion, and on the last squib kickoff that was returned almost for a TD itself.
 

MNVCGUY said:
In fairness to the kickers and special teams unit we had one bad kickoff in the game that resulted in a long return. We kicked off 5 times, 1 return netted 66 yards, the other 4 netted a combined 0 yards. In terms of field position, leaving out the one long return, Michigan got the ball on their own, 30, 30, 23, and 32. I would say that is pretty damn good.

I have not rewatched the one long return to see where the breakdown was but I think a little too much is being made about the kickoffs. I was actually a little surprised at just how well we actually did on the other 4 kicks when I went back and looked at the Play by Play. Certainly was not my impression from having watched the game live.

The Punts on the other hand were ugly but as has been discussed in this thread, Punting is much harder and not something just anyone can do well.
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The breakdown on the long KOR was MSM trying to go around a block to the right and getting knocked about 5 yards off his line and the guy to his left, can’t recall who, getting pushed left some leaving a huge lane for the returner.
The fake punt call was not a good call. The reason given for it is even worse. If they knew going in that he couldn’t punt the ball that far, why even punt in the first place. Or since it was game 1 put some personal
Protectors back there who could run a fake better.Mich wouldn’t have known. Yes punting is more difficult than JO, but it’s not like they found out Sat. Morning they would be without them. One of the Athletes on the team or a back up qb could have trained for a week and been better than what we saw.
 

I want a reality TV series staring me and some other old guys and we go work out for a few weeks and try to kick field goals and punt and such.... maybe stay on campus ... hang out around the team.

Just say'n... I'm available PJ ...









🤙
 

WriterGoph said:
I don't know that many people who could kick a football 50 yards in the air. Maaaybe one or two ex-soccer player friends. But when you have 4 guys on a roster who specialize in or can handle that duty, you've probably covered your bases in all other scenarios. But when 3 of those are out due to COVID guidelines and the 4th is recovering from a sports hernia, really not sure what else a coach is supposed to do. You think most teams have FIVE guys who can handle kickoffs?
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Most high schools have at least one kid that can kick that far. Especially metro schools. We were a class A school and had 2 kids that could kick like that. There are plenty of kids on campus IMO, that could do a better job than what was witnessed the other night.

That said, it sounds like they can't have an open tryout anyway.

Also, there has to be 4-5 kids on the team already that punted in high school. Have an in-team tryout. I could kick left footed better than was done the other night and I am old and have a beer belly now.
 

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