Justin Fuente said players who enter the transfer portal are not welcome back

[MNVCGUY]

Meanwhile he goes out on job interviews at other schools...

Not really an apples to apples situation when comparing the two.

From reading a few stories on it, it really comes across as him wanting players to be 100% sure of their decision to transfer and not to just use the portal as a way to see what else might be out there. The schools invest a lot of resources in the development of the players.

I'm not saying he is right in taking this hard line stance on it. But I also don't think it is out of line and won't be surprised when many other schools go this route as well. Players need to really think through the decision and not just toss their name out there if they are not 100% sure they want to leave the school they committed to and that has been working to develop them.

 

[MNVCGUY]

It is probably too easy for coaches to move around. I’m not averse to an NCAA policy fining coaches two years of salary plus any buyout for abandoning their players and fans. Rationale being stability for players is desirable and the team has an academic mission. Upheaval may lead to stress, poor performance in the classroom, transfers etc. Make coach’s really think about whether it’s worthwhile to climb the ladder. Given coaches getting fired after 2-3 years these days it may make some nest instead of fly.

If you are going to fine the coaches for leaving are you also going to fine the school for firing them? It is tough to sell loyalty to coaches when guys are getting fired after 2 years in some cases these days. The coaching market is so volatile that guys have been conditioned from early in their career to look for ways to move up the ladder because nothing is guaranteed and they can get fired at the drop of a hat.

I would love to see coaches put down roots and stay at their school for a long time, but the reality is that in this current climate that is getting harder and harder to do. So much money being thrown around by schools and the pressure to win and win quickly is getting higher and higher every year because of it.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Not really an apples to apples situation when comparing the two.

From reading a few stories on it, it really comes across as him wanting players to be 100% sure of their decision to transfer and not to just use the portal as a way to see what else might be out there. The schools invest a lot of resources in the development of the players.

I'm not saying he is right in taking this hard line stance on it. But I also don't think it is out of line and won't be surprised when many other schools go this route as well. Players need to really think through the decision and not just toss their name out there if they are not 100% sure they want to leave the school they committed to and that has been working to develop them.

It's do what I say not what I do.

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

Exactly.

Also, I’m not sure I agree that the coaches (let alone the fans) should have a right to know about the player entering the portal unless the player tells them (publicly announces it).

If he goes in, looks around, doesn’t like anything, he should be able to cancel it and face no retribution.

The coach definitely should know. They need to understand who will be there. If you're choosing to enter, you better believe the coach is going to find out one way or another.
I'm not sure it's actually public information (from what I read the official list is supposed to only be visible to school administrations), but it gets leaked as soon as someone is on there. Usually the player puts it on their Twitter or whatever.

So are you saying if someone leaves the Gophers, another guy wants in our program, but he can't get in until the guy who left makes a final decision as to whether or not he is coming back? Hoping you're saying that if there is an opening he can come back. Then again Fleck may be communicating with someone who wants in but has to wait a month or so due to academics etc. Meanwhile the guy wants to come back.

I would think it would have to be a two way street in some of these situations.

You haven’t left unless you actually leave.

Looking to see what’s out there isn’t leaving.

If you enter the portal the school is no longer obligated to accept you on the team or continue your scholarship. They get to choose. So if Player X from the Gophers enters and the Gophers want Player Y from Nowhere State Tech A&M who is in the portal, they don't have to wait even if Player X was scholarship 85. They can sign Player Y and then just not allow Player X back. That is the risk of entering the portal. I'm sure that's part of the 57% - players just never found a "better" situation and their current team didn't want to keep wasting a scholarship on them, so they ended up without a team.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

If you are going to fine the coaches for leaving are you also going to fine the school for firing them? It is tough to sell loyalty to coaches when guys are getting fired after 2 years in some cases these days. The coaching market is so volatile that guys have been conditioned from early in their career to look for ways to move up the ladder because nothing is guaranteed and they can get fired at the drop of a hat.

I would love to see coaches put down roots and stay at their school for a long time, but the reality is that in this current climate that is getting harder and harder to do. So much money being thrown around by schools and the pressure to win and win quickly is getting higher and higher every year because of it.

I was being a bit facetious but a player set adrift and ineligible to play for a year, losing a year of eligibility is a pretty big deal. It isn’t realistic to make coaches sit out a year so considering a job change typically involves a very generous salary bump anywhere from 1.5 to 3x multiple per year I figured a 2 year penalty based on prior job salary or total compensation is closest equivalent. I suppose you could offset it with whatever buyout you have or just get rid of current buyouts altogether and adopt the flat peak salary x 2 penalty across NCAA schools. It has to hurt at least a little bit.

The goal of course is to promote stability and promote culture, academic success for the players. I take coaches at their words.

 

[MplsGopher]

If you enter the portal the school is no longer obligated to accept you on the team or continue your scholarship. They get to choose. So if Player X from the Gophers enters and the Gophers want Player Y from Nowhere State Tech A&M who is in the portal, they don't have to wait even if Player X was scholarship 85. They can sign Player Y and then just not allow Player X back. That is the risk of entering the portal.

You're describing how you want the system to work. I heartily disagree with your desire. I think a player should get to "look around", be able to contact coaches to get an idea of what the situation might be, and think things over, before informing our coach that they intend to leave.

I have no idea how it actually works now, according to the rule book. Your description may in fact be how it works now, I don't know.

And I'm certainly willing to entertain hypothetical scenarios about how what I think I want, could screw a school over, and so there should be some kind of compromise. I certainly have not thought through every possible hypothetical. It's very difficult to do that usually.

 

[MNVCGUY]

You're describing how you want the system to work. I heartily disagree with your desire. I think a player should get to "look around", be able to contact coaches to get an idea of what the situation might be, and think things over, before informing our coach that they intend to leave.

I have no idea how it actually works now, according to the rule book. Your description may in fact be how it works now, I don't know.

And I'm certainly willing to entertain hypothetical scenarios about how what I think I want, could screw a school over, and so there should be some kind of compromise. I certainly have not thought through every possible hypothetical. It's very difficult to do that usually.

I can't think of anything that could stop a player from doing what you described in the top part. As long as they are the ones initiating the contact there would be no way to regulate that.

I think the key is that other coaches can't contact the player unless their name is in the portal. Once they are in the portal they are essentially recruits again and coaches from all over can reach out to them.

 

[MplsGopher]

I can't think of anything that could stop a player from doing what you described in the top part. As long as they are the ones initiating the contact there would be no way to regulate that.

I think the key is that other coaches can't contact the player unless their name is in the portal. Once they are in the portal they are essentially recruits again and coaches from all over can reach out to them.

Well, the discussion was about this idea of a player coming back to a school after going into the portal. I don't think such a player should automatically lose their scholarship (assuming they had one).

 

[MNVCGUY]

Well, the discussion was about this idea of a player coming back to a school after going into the portal. I don't think such a player should automatically lose their scholarship (assuming they had one).

This is where I disagree. If you go into the portal then the school you were at should be under no obligation to take you back if they don't want to. By going into the transfer portal you are essentially reopening your recruitment.

If you officially tell the school you are at that you want to leave they can't stop you but that also doesn't mean they should be obligated to welcome you back with open arms when you find out that the grass isn't greener somewhere else.

 

[MplsGopher]

This is where I disagree. If you go into the portal then the school you were at should be under no obligation to take you back if they don't want to. By going into the transfer portal you are essentially reopening your recruitment.

If you officially tell the school you are at that you want to leave they can't stop you but that also doesn't mean they should be obligated to welcome you back with open arms when you find out that the grass isn't greener somewhere else.

So now we're at exactly the same place as in post #34 with Lakeville Goldy: I disagree that entering the portal is equivalent to telling the coach that you are leaving. I say it should be "I am curious to find out if there might be a better situation out there for me, but I have no decided to leave yet".

 

[MNVCGUY]

So now we're at exactly the same place as in post #34 with Lakeville Goldy: I disagree that entering the portal is equivalent to telling the coach that you are leaving. I say it should be "I am curious to find out if there might be a better situation out there for me, but I have no decided to leave yet".

Not a perfect example but: Would you go to your current employer and say "I have not decided if I want to leave my job but just so you know I am going to actively be out there interviewing and being contacted by other employers in the hopes of finding a better job and leaving. But hey, if I don't find what I want then I will stick around."?

Now we all know you can search for another job while employed as long as you do it on your own time and don't make it totally obvious. In the same way, a player could do some looking without making anything official or telling his current school he is trying to leave.

The point of the transfer portal is to make things easier for players that want to leave the place they are at. It isn't meant to be a tool for players to shop around and see if there is a better option out there.

 

[MplsGopher]

Not a perfect example but: Would you go to your current employer and say "I have not decided if I want to leave my job but just so you know I am going to actively be out there interviewing and being contacted by other employers in the hopes of finding a better job and leaving. But hey, if I don't find what I want then I will stick around."?

Now we all know you can search for another job while employed as long as you do it on your own time and don't make it totally obvious. In the same way, a player could do some looking without making anything official or telling his current school he is trying to leave.

But AGAIN .... this is my point. I say, it should NOT be that entering the portal is equivalent to telling the coach "x,y,z". I say, the portal should be entirely confidential from the current coaching staff.

I don't know what the rules are, but it might be possible that other coaching staffs aren't allowed to communicate with players that are on another roster. Maybe they can, if the player reaches out. I don't know.

The point of the transfer portal is to make things easier for players that want to leave the place they are at. It isn't meant to be a tool for players to shop around and see if there is a better option out there.

Says who?

And even if was ostensibily set up for that, I see no reason why it can't morph into something that is friendlier to players.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Not a perfect example but: Would you go to your current employer and say "I have not decided if I want to leave my job but just so you know I am going to actively be out there interviewing and being contacted by other employers in the hopes of finding a better job and leaving. But hey, if I don't find what I want then I will stick around."?

Now we all know you can search for another job while employed as long as you do it on your own time and don't make it totally obvious. In the same way, a player could do some looking without making anything official or telling his current school he is trying to leave.

The point of the transfer portal is to make things easier for players that want to leave the place they are at. It isn't meant to be a tool for players to shop around and see if there is a better option out there.

Interesting to bring this up in light of the recent leadership discussion and the Grand Valley State coach. PJF actively encourages his coaches to look for better opportunities (or at least says so) which is certainly not the norm.

Many managers/CEOs adopt a leadership model best described as Stalin-esque in that any sign of disloyalty or unhappiness results in termination. Not actual termination, but something more legal.

 

[MNVCGUY]

But AGAIN .... this is my point. I say, it should NOT be that entering the portal is equivalent to telling the coach "x,y,z". I say, the portal should be entirely confidential from the current coaching staff.

I don't know what the rules are, but it might be possible that other coaching staffs aren't allowed to communicate with players that are on another roster. Maybe they can, if the player reaches out. I don't know.


Says who?

And even if was ostensibily set up for that, I see no reason why it can't morph into something that is friendlier to players.

NCAA.org - The Official Site of the NCAA

www.ncaa.org

Good read on what the portal is and is not meant to be.

Schools invest a lot of time, effort and money into players on scholarship. There should be some protection for the school there if a kid wants to explore their options somewhere else. Schools don't have to take a hard line approach the way Fuente is but they also shouldn't be under any obligation to welcome a kid back who is actively searching for a way out.

 

[MplsGopher]

Schools invest a lot of time, effort and money into players on scholarship. There should be some protection for the school there if a kid wants to explore their options somewhere else. Schools don't have to take a hard line approach the way Fuente is but they also shouldn't be under any obligation to welcome a kid back who is actively searching for a way out.

Thanks for the link. I prefaced my posts saying I did not know what the actual rules for it are right now.

I don't see why it would be hard to have a two level thing. A lower level where the player is looking, but is still obligated to be with the team, and a higher level where the player presses the button to make a firm commitment to leaving the team.

High level should trigger release from scholarship. Lower level should not.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Interesting to bring this up in light of the recent leadership discussion and the Grand Valley State coach. PJF actively encourages his coaches to look for better opportunities (or at least says so) which is certainly not the norm.

Many managers/CEOs adopt a leadership model best described as Stalin-esque in that any sign of disloyalty or unhappiness results in termination. Not actual termination, but something more legal.

As I said, the business example wasn't perfect, just trying to come up with a way of putting it that might make sense.

Fleck wants to see his coaches get promoted, position coach to coordinator, coordinator to head coach, things like that. That is how the coaching world works.

That is not how college athletics is supposed to work. It isn't the pros where guys can be traded and move around far more freely. At least that is not how college athletics is supposed to be handled. There needs to be a process for players to leave if things are not working out but I think some are being a little too causal about the idea of guys just jumping from school to school.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Thanks for the link. I prefaced my posts saying I did not know what the actual rules for it are right now.

I don't see why it would be hard to have a two level thing. A lower level where the player is looking, but is still obligated to be with the team, and a higher level where the player presses the button to make a firm commitment to leaving the team.

High level should trigger release from scholarship. Lower level should not.

The idea of college athletics is that you commit to a school to play a sport and in turn they give you a free education that you can use to set yourself up for your future. It is not pro sports and although it is trending more and more in that direction I hope it never gets all the way there.

If you want to leave the school you are at it should be a big deal, not just a casual way of exploring what other options might be out there. The idea of the portal is to simplify that whole process for everyone involved. It isn't meant be used as a free agency tool even though that is basically what it is becoming for the QB position.

I know some struggle with the idea that coaches can leave at the drop of hat but players and coaches should not be viewed exactly the same in that regard.

Maybe I am just old fashioned and holding onto the idea that college athletics should be different then the pro leagues.

 

[Deleted_User]

I believe in freedom. It follows then that I would find a transfer portal a good, but imperfect tool for freeing students to do what is right for themselves.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I believe in freedom. It follows then that I would find a transfer portal a good, but imperfect tool for freeing students to do what is right for themselves.

The funny thing about all this is that transferring is not a new thing. The transfer portal was setup for compliance offices and to help streamline an inefficient process. It was never intended to even be visible to fans but they underestimated the desire for information that fans have and the fact that a site like 247 would essentially create a transfer portal to mirror the NCAA one as much as possible.