Josh Martin to seek transfer from U

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Someone on the Gonzaga message boards posted that Bothell was a very poorly coached basketball team. Makes some sense if you think about it. Josh didn't look ready to contribute, and last year at UCLA, Zach Lavine had some real struggles as well.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
The latest from Marcus, with this nugget about Daddy not being happy with his baby boy's playing time and apparently delicate psyche:

"Martin's father recently spoke to the Gophers about his son's lack of playing time and difficulty dealing with being yelled at in practice, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

He also wondered why his son wasn't playing more at small forward, where he was more comfortable, the source said."

Does anybody know when Josh was officially adopted by the Ellensons?

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci...-transfers-part-college-landscape-pitino-says
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Unbelievable. I always thought the sense of entitlement was a generational thing, but Martin's father seems to have the same problem. With the kind of crap performances Martin was giving us in game, he got more playing time than he deserved. And if he isn't tough enough to handle the coach trying to improve him at practice than good riddance. If Martin's dad thought he should be getting more playing time, then he clearly wasn't watching the playing time he was getting.

This kind of garbage makes me appreciate Mason's composure and attitude that much more. Nate Mason is well on his way to being my favorite player on the team.
 

Josh should have waited until we played Seattle U. He could have hitched a ride home with them after the game.
 

bga1 said:
You have your history a little wrong there even though you are on the right track. Mitch Lee was involved in an incident well before Madison. He got acquitted or charges were dropped in that one. Following that- he made the pitiful champagne glass move and showed up at a game that way. Dutcher sent him to the locker room for a shave if I recall correctly and didn't let him play that night. After the Madison incident, none of the players returned to play again at Minnesota.
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That's right! I was probably too drunk in the stands to remember correctly! Mitch was a classy guy!
 

Hmm, can't handle coaches yelling at him. This guy needs to enlist in the Marines. Then he would know what real abuse is! We need more Richard Coffey. I bet he wouldn't coddle his boy.
 


GopherJake said:
Hey, Josh, read this post from the football thread about a guy that you will never be, you lousy quitter:

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...verence-as-Maroney-Barber&p=991731#post991731
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Oh c'mon. The kid is eighteen years old and eighteen year olds do stupid things. Sometimes parents of eighteen year olds give stupid advice. We don't know what Pitino promised him during the recruiting process and we don't know how Pitino treated him behind closed doors. Pitino is charming and refreshing with the media but he screams like crazy at the kids in the huddle. I can't imagine he's much better out of the public eye and there are some kids who don't/can't handle it well. Coaches have nearly unlimited power in these situations and the only power that the player has is to choose to transfer. I think that Martin probably exercised that option too soon but that doesn't make him a "lousy quitter." Changing schools and sitting out a year probably isn't much fun.

I hope Martin finds a good spot for himself, has a good college career (he didn't look like he had NBA potential) and gets a degree.
 

Otis said:
Hmm, can't handle coaches yelling at him. This guy needs to enlist in the Marines. Then he would know what real abuse is! We need more Richard Coffey. I bet he wouldn't coddle his boy.
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I'm pretty sure that Richard is going to make sure that his son ends up in the best possible situation and with a coach who will treat his son properly, however the family defines it.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Unbelievable. I always thought the sense of entitlement was a generational thing, but Martin's father seems to have the same problem. With the kind of crap performances Martin was giving us in game, he got more playing time than he deserved. And if he isn't tough enough to handle the coach trying to improve him at practice than good riddance. If Martin's dad thought he should be getting more playing time, then he clearly wasn't watching the playing time he was getting.

This kind of garbage makes me appreciate Mason's composure and attitude that much more. Nate Mason is well on his way to being my favorite player on the team.
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We have far too many parents who are worshiping their kids lives. They pander to the kids every whim and fancy and they imagine their child will be a superstar. There's a local guy I know who's son is a decent baseball player/wrestler/football player (overall pretty good athlete). The dad sets up extra practice times for his son. He inserts himself into the programs by being an "assistant" coach. You see him trailing around his son all the time. It's sad to see him live his life through his son, yet the dad is oblivious to what he's doing.

Sadly, I wish this parent were an exception, but it's more of a norm. Hovering parent syndrome is all around as parents live their lives vicariously through their children. Child worship...the parenting dilemma.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
The latest from Marcus, with this nugget about Daddy not being happy with his baby boy's playing time and apparently delicate psyche:

"Martin's father recently spoke to the Gophers about his son's lack of playing time and difficulty dealing with being yelled at in practice, according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

He also wondered why his son wasn't playing more at small forward, where he was more comfortable, the source said."

Does anybody know when Josh was officially adopted by the Ellensons?

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci...-transfers-part-college-landscape-pitino-says
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I'll mention it again, it's been 8 frickin games! I could understand this a little more if it happened after the season. We're a quarter of the way through the season. Things can change, he's a true freshman for crying out loud.
 



Help, please. I haven't been able to follow all of this, but when they say transfer "immediately" they only mean leave the team immediately, right? He's going to take his final exams and finish the semester, isn't he? If he doesn't take his exams, that would tell me he didn't feel he was going to pass his courses.
 

Does this hurt our APR? How about Lofton and McNeil?
 

Gold Vision said:
Does this hurt our APR? How about Lofton and McNeil?
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It depends what is next for them.

If McNeil is still sitting in jail, his academic eligibility may suffer...

If a guy who is OK academically leaves and goes right to another school... no problem except for the dilutive impact of having fewer points if you're under 1000. Not a huge deal.

But.. with Lofton and McNeil, potential is there for it to be problematic or at least concerning.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
It depends what is next for them.

If McNeil is still sitting in jail, his academic eligibility may suffer...

If a guy who is OK academically leaves and goes right to another school... no problem except for the dilutive impact of having fewer points if you're under 1000. Not a huge deal.

But.. with Lofton and McNeil, potential is there for it to be problematic or at least concerning.
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I think the Martin and mcneil situations have more potential to negatively affect the APR.

If Martin transfers 'Immediately' he would not finish classes hence, mess up his grades.
Hopefully he is finishing the semester for his own sake and MN's APR sake.

If Mcneil is still in jail his grades will suffer dramatically as well, not sure if he has been released or not.

From what I know Lofton is still on campus finishing this semester with the hope of transferring to another school next semester on good terms academically.

Speaking of Lofton, I wonder if he will get an opportunity to rejoin the team, considering all the circumstances, losses, and open schollies.
I hope he does, wishful thinkin on my part.
 



Jigga said:
If Martin transfers 'Immediately' he would not finish classes hence, mess up his grades.
Hopefully he is finishing the semester for his own sake and MN's APR sake.
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There can be no way Martin would not finish the semester, right? I mean he's got no more than a week left in the semester, right? I would think any school who wants him to transfer to them would tell him to finish his one week at MN.
 


tjgopher said:
There can be no way Martin would not finish the semester, right? I mean he's got no more than a week left in the semester, right? I would think any school who wants him to transfer to them would tell him to finish his one week at MN.
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All bets are off on a kid who decides to quit hours BEFORE a cupcake game because he hasn't had a chance to prove himself with playing time. Major head scratcher right there....
 

Jigga said:
Speaking of Lofton, I wonder if he will get an opportunity to rejoin the team, considering all the circumstances, losses, and open schollies. I hope he does, wishful thinkin on my part.
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If he's still on campus in January, there's a really good chance he's trying to mind his P's and Q's and wants to stick around. Don't think it's that far-fetched to think he might be around next season, who knows, maybe even reinstated for second semester so he can resume team activities again?

We'll know if that's a possiblity within a few weeks. Would think we'll hear something real soon about his transfer destination, if there is one.
 


bga1 said:
All bets are off on a kid who decides to quit hours BEFORE a cupcake game because he hasn't had a chance to prove himself with playing time. Major head scratcher right there....
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Try not to, but sometimes I can't help speculating. I think you're right about all bets are off. The way he quit, supposedly nothing said to teammates, wouldn't be that surprising to hear he's back in Washington already.
 

Jigga said:
I think the Martin and mcneil situations have more potential to negatively affect the APR.

If Martin transfers 'Immediately' he would not finish classes hence, mess up his grades.
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Lol.. never crossed my mind that he would not finish classes. Still hasn't, realistically. If someone said he is "transferring immediately" I wouldn't pay attention to their specific words...

'messing up grades' isn't an issue if staying eligible... becoming academically ineligible is. If McNeil doesn't complete classes AND/or doesn't return to a school.. then you've got a hit.

Martin I wouldn't worry about.
 

With all the comments Pitino made about Josh shooting 3's, probably didn't go well if Martin wanted to be a SF.

Just weird all around. He obviously didn't play a lot, but did he even have the handle to play the 3? The shot? If he wants to play the 3, great! But which part of his skill set says he deserves significant playing time there 8 games into his Freshman season?
 

Gold Vision said:
Does this hurt our APR? How about Lofton and McNeil?
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Basketball Team in good shape as far as APR is concerned.

from the link http://www.gophersports.com/genrel/051414aaa.html


"Men’s basketball had a perfect 1,000 score in the 2012-13 season.

University of Minnesota Academic Progress Rate Report – Spring 2014

Men’s Sports – Multi-Year Rate/2012-13 Score

Baseball – 1,000/990
Basketball – 960/1,000
Cross Country – 984/1,000
Football – 962/994
Golf – 984/1,000
Gymnastics – 1,000/1,000
Hockey – 989/1,000
Swimming & Diving – 968/982
Tennis – 1,000/1,000
Track & Field (indoor) – 995/1,000
Track & Field (outdoor) – 994/1,000
Wrestling – 993/992

Women’s Sports – Multi-Year Rate/2012-13 Score

Basketball – 995/978..."

Martin McNeil and Lofton could all cost the BB Team an APR point if they don't stay eligible AND stay in school. If they transfer to another school while maintaining a Grade Point Average above something like 2.3 (IIRC) then there would be no point reduction against the APR %age number.

Also our 2013-2014 APR should be close to 1000 again. That won't be released until Spring 2015.
 

scher215 said:
With all the comments Pitino made about Josh shooting 3's, probably didn't go well if Martin wanted to be a SF.

Just weird all around. He obviously didn't play a lot, but did he even have the handle to play the 3? The shot? If he wants to play the 3, great! But which part of his skill set says he deserves significant playing time there 8 games into his Freshman season?
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He didn't even have the handle or the shot to play the 5.
 

tjgopher said:
There can be no way Martin would not finish the semester, right? I mean he's got no more than a week left in the semester, right? I would think any school who wants him to transfer to them would tell him to finish his one week at MN.
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Just a caveat here as I am not sure how this all works out. BUT - IF - Martin just walks away from school at this point and does not finish out the semester, he clearly becomes ineligible for next semester. But let's say he transfers to another D1 school he would be ineligible under transfer rules anyway. Let's say he takes and passes the required classes this next spring semester at the new D1 new school, it seems he would then become eligible Academically for the fall semester - but still ineligible under the 1 year transfer rule. If he were to continue on his Academic Progress and pass the required classes for the fall semester 2015 - he then possibly becomes eligible at the new school upon successful academic completion of his fall semester next year. He would then be eligible mid-December 2015 at the new school like any other transfer who transfers mid-year in good academic standing.

My guess is that it has little impact on Martin but a negative impact on MN APR.

IF this is what happens this is a definite 2 point HIT on the MN BB APR. He would be an 0 for 2 student athlete meaning he became academically ineligible AND left school. Since MN APR is in very good shape now this would still not put MN in danger of any NCAA APR Penalties imo.

IMO Even if all 3 players in question Martin, McNeil, and Lofton became 0 for 2 Student Athletes (just about the worst case scenario - unless more problems develop) MN would still avoid NCAA APR Penalties. They had a 1000 APR in 2012-2013 and should have an APR very close to 1000 for 2013-2014. That should be enough of a cushion to avoid trouble caused by these 3 losses.
 

rrjackIII said:
Martin McNeil and Lofton could all cost the BB Team an APR point if they don't stay eligible AND stay in school. If they transfer to another school while maintaining a Grade Point Average above something like 2.3 (IIRC) then there would be no point reduction against the APR %age number.
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Careful. The nuances are important. You're talking about "an APR point" and "point reductions"... and then "%age number".....

The catch is this: let's imagine Martin finishes the semester in good academic standing and transfers to another D-I school. Everything there goes well and he's playing in a year.

This year MN would get only 1 of 4 points they would have had he stayed. While 3 points will be "lost" from the numerator, 3 points will also be "forgiven" from the denominator.. so, a 1 of 1 for Martin instead of a 4 of 4 had he stayed. IF everything else was perfect... 12 other scholarship players that all got their 4 of 4... the 2014-15 APR would be calculated as 49 / 49 = 100%, thus 1000.

However, if Minnesota didn't have a perfect score outside of Martin - let's use an example of 12 scholarship players to start, lose Martin (1 of 1).. and another player drops out of school in the first semester as a 0 of 2...

Now, you've got a calc of 41 / 43 = 95.3% or 953. Had Martin stayed in the example above, APR would have been 44 / 46 = 97.8% or 978.
 


rrjackIII said:
IMO Even if all 3 players in question Martin, McNeil, and Lofton became 0 for 2 Student Athletes (just about the worst case scenario - unless more problems develop) MN would still avoid NCAA APR Penalties. They had a 1000 APR in 2012-2013 and should have an APR very close to 1000 for 2013-2014. That should be enough of a cushion to avoid trouble caused by these 3 losses.
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36 / 42 = 857 would be the 2014-15 score under your "just about the worst case scenario." Last two reported years I believe were 1000 and 981, but I'd have to look back at the weighting on those years... and then 2013-14 is the other year of the four that will be included in the 2014-15 APR score. Probably OK.

But that 857 would stay in the calcs for four years... which is not a good spot to be put in and could drive behavior (e.g., not taking certain 'risks' in the future you might have otherwise been open to).

Anyway, all three being 0-for-2's would not be good... but don't think that will happen. However, there are a lot of other guys on the team. The margin for 'error' can become slim quicker than Mo Walker.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Careful. The nuances are important. You're talking about "an APR point" and "point reductions"... and then "%age number".....

It is an APR point - the points earned divided by the points possible becomes the percentage - the NCAA the just change the percentage back to a number by multiplying by 1000.

The catch is this: let's imagine Martin finishes the semester in good academic standing and transfers to another D-I school. Everything there goes well and he's playing in a year.

As long as he transfers with a GPA above 2.3 (IIRC).

This year MN would get only 1 of 4 points they would have had he stayed. While 3 points will be "lost" from the numerator, 3 points will also be "forgiven" from the denominator.. so, a 1 of 1 for Martin instead of a 4 of 4 had he stayed. IF everything else was perfect... 12 other scholarship players that all got their 4 of 4... the 2014-15 APR would be calculated as 49 / 49 = 100%, thus 1000.

Points are calculated by semester. 2 in the first semester 2 in the 2nd semester. If at the end of the first semester Martin is in good academic standing and he returns to UofM he gets 2 for 2. If he transfers with a GPA under 2.3 (not positive of the actual GPA number but it is somewhere around that) he becomes a 1 for 2 for the first semester. If he transfers with a GPA above 2.3 he then becomes a 1 for 1 student athlete for the first semester and there is not point loss for the transfer.

However, if Minnesota didn't have a perfect score outside of Martin - let's use an example of 12 scholarship players to start, lose Martin (1 of 1).. and another player drops out of school in the first semester as a 0 of 2...

see above ...

Now, you've got a calc of 41 / 43 = 95.3% or 953. Had Martin stayed in the example above, APR would have been 44 / 46 = 97.8% or 978.
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ok

Now my head hurts!
 


Gopher Warrior said:
36 / 42 = 857 would be the 2014-15 score under your "just about the worst case scenario." Last two reported years I believe were 1000 and 981, but I'd have to look back at the weighting on those years... and then 2013-14 is the other year of the four that will be included in the 2014-15 APR score. Probably OK.

But that 857 would stay in the calcs for four years... which is not a good spot to be put in and could drive behavior (e.g., not taking certain 'risks' in the future you might have otherwise been open to).

Anyway, all three being 0-for-2's would not be good... but don't think that will happen. However, there are a lot of other guys on the team. The margin for 'error' can become slim quicker than Mo Walker.
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Yes. I agree. A team would not like to have too many years with 0 for 2 Student Athletes. Eliminating 0 for 2 Student Athletes was one of the main purposes of the NCAA coming up with the APR in the first place.
 

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