Josh Martin to seek transfer from U

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SelectionSunday said:
"I'm afraid of a world run by adults who were never spanked as children and won trophies just for participating."
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Those people won't run anything. Its those of us (Millennial here, running a company as well) that were spanked/disciplined/disappointed throughout our lives that easily vault to the top rather quickly.

Problem is we need to employ those POS products of helicopter parents.
 

afurry91 said:
Let me see if I have this straight. A middle of the pack 3* recruit thinks he should play more 8 games into the season as a freshmen. I wouldn't even accept a 4* feeling that way. I get there are egos in sports and the best players are going to have them, but it's a complete waste of time to have to deal with an ego that big for a player that was a project at best.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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I can't go this far. Seems to me that we can't throw away our (arguably) first or second best recruit from a class because there is a difference in playing time expectations. I'm willing to give a talented 18 year old freshman a little longer leash, whether the issue was playing time related or confidence issues or college adaptation issues or all three. By all accounts, he was a good kid. We were all huge fans of his since he committed and now many of us are trashing him throughout this thread. I think this is a sad situation and one in which the professional (Pitino) in the relationship should take some ownership too.
 

SelectionSunday said:
"I'm afraid of a world run by adults who were never spanked as children and won trophies just for participating."
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People who only won participation trophies don't become scholarship D1 athletes.

Josh is a member of a particular generation but so are all the other members of the team. As a latter baby boomer (a "Jones" generational), I get sick of hearing this canard. I work with millennials all the time. They have their good and bad points like any other generation but I find them enjoyable to work with for the most part. They may have been spoiled more than some prior generations but I might argue that my generation has become spoiled as adults during the same time period.
 

golfing18now said:
I can't go this far. Seems to me that we can't throw away our (arguably) first or second best recruit from a class because there is a difference in playing time expectations. I'm willing to give a talented 18 year old freshman a little longer leash, whether the issue was playing time related or confidence issues or college adaptation issues or all three. By all accounts, he was a good kid. We were all huge fans of his since he committed and now many of us are trashing him throughout this thread. I think this is a sad situation and one in which the professional (Pitino) in the relationship should take some ownership too.
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I was excited for his future, and was happy when he committed.

That was before I learned that he was more interested in himself than the team. This is big 10 basketball. Talented players can go two years without seeing the floor.

Joey King is a better player than he is today. I'm sure that's a huge shot to his inflated ego. It would certainly sting me a little bit. If he doesn't have the mental toughness to work hard and earn his spot on the floor and be better than him, then I don't really have the mental toughness to care about him. He could have won that starting job in no time, but he didn't deserve it today and he didn't want to work for it.

His loss. His transfer hurts us a little today, but I'm sure we'll be better for it when we have someone else that will be a team player next year or in two years.
 


afurry91 said:
His transfer hurts us a little today, but I'm sure we'll be better for it when we have someone else that will be a team player next year or in two years.
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Judging by the last two games, his transfer may not have hurt us even for "today" especially if Gaston can join the team. I rather like the twin towers lineup coming off the bench.
 

afurry91 said:
I was excited for his future, and was happy when he committed.

That was before I learned that he was more interested in himself than the team. This is big 10 basketball. Talented players can go two years without seeing the floor.

Joey King is a better player than he is today. I'm sure that's a huge shot to his inflated ego. It would certainly sting me a little bit. If he doesn't have the mental toughness to work hard and earn his spot on the floor and be better than him, then I don't really have the mental toughness to care about him. He could have won that starting job in no time, but he didn't deserve it today and he didn't want to work for it.

His loss. His transfer hurts us a little today, but I'm sure we'll be better for it when we have someone else that will be a team player next year or in two years.
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We don't know whether or not he wanted to work for it or anything about his mental toughness. I do agree that he certainly didn't deserve the starting nod at this point. Clearly. However, he could have made the same strides that Joey King has made this year and been an impact player down the road. I just wince when we throw in the towel on somebody after about 15 minutes of collective playing time.

He looked more lost or down to me than entitled.
 

golfing18now said:
We don't know whether or not he wanted to work for it or anything about his mental toughness. I do agree that he certainly didn't deserve the starting nod at this point. Clearly. However, he could have made the same strides that Joey King has made this year and been an impact player down the road. I just wince when we throw in the towel on somebody after about 15 minutes of collective playing time.

He looked more lost or down to me than entitled.
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He walked out on his teammates in the middle of the season. That tells me all I need to know. I don't care to know anymore.

We didn't throw in the towel on him after 15 minutes. He did that. No sane fan throws in the towel on any freshmen basketball player. We let Rodney run around for 2 years before we even questioned that he might not be that great.
 

afurry91 said:
He walked out on his teammates in the middle of the season. That tells me all I need to know. I don't care to know anymore.

We didn't throw in the towel on him after 15 minutes. He did that. No sane fan throws in the towel on any freshmen basketball player. We let Rodney run around for 2 years before we even questioned that he might not be that great.
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We can agree to disagree on this one. Without "knowing" the particulars that led to the divorce, I'm not going to trash an 18 year old.

Until we start drawing in the Isaiah Whitehead type recruit, these types of situations don't help the cause. I do feel that we would be better off with a year two Josh Martin than anything else that we will recruit at this point in the recruiting cycle. We need to keep the talent that we have. More ninth place finishes, I guess.
 



golfing18now said:
I just wince when we throw in the towel on somebody after about 15 minutes of collective playing time.

He looked more lost or down to me than entitled.
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Who are you referring to when you say "we?" "We" as fans had absolutely no input, or effect, on this decision and so we might as well mentally "throw in the towel" when it comes to Josh. It looks to me like Josh was the one who threw in the towel. I don't hold it against him. The average transfer number per D1 basketball school is probably somewhere near 2 players a year now. It's an issue for almost any school. It's easier to transfer now and there are more D1 places to transfer to than in decades past. We live in a free society with opportunities for change. This decision is an opportunity for Josh and the Gophers.
 

cjbfbp said:
Who are you referring to when you say "we?" "We" as fans had absolutely no input, or effect, on this decision and so we might as well mentally "throw in the towel" when it comes to Josh. It looks to me like Josh was the one who threw in the towel. I don't hold it against him. The average transfer number per D1 basketball school is probably somewhere near 2 players a year now. It's an issue for almost any school. It's easier to transfer now and there are more D1 places to transfer to than in decades past. We live in a free society with opportunities for change. This decision is an opportunity for Josh and the Gophers.
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Fair enough. I used the term "we" inappropriately and maybe "fans throwing in the towel" is a bad choice of words too. I was really trying to avoid (by using the term "we") singling out the comments that Alex made initially on the topic because his was one of many comments that bothered me. Maybe I'm too soft on the issue, maybe not. I just feel there is more to this story than an entitled kid that wanted more playing time. Even if that was the case, I would hope in the future that these issues get resolved before a talented kid needs to leave the program 8 games into his freshman season.
 

cjbfbp said:
People who only won participation trophies don't become scholarship D1 athletes.

Josh is a member of a particular generation but so are all the other members of the team. As a latter baby boomer (a "Jones" generational), I get sick of hearing this canard. I work with millennials all the time. They have their good and bad points like any other generation but I find them enjoyable to work with for the most part. They may have been spoiled more than some prior generations but I might argue that my generation has become spoiled as adults during the same time period.
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No. It all changed about 20 years ago for many of them. Very, very sad.
 

golfing18now said:
Even if that was the case, I would hope in the future that these issues get resolved before a talented kid needs to leave the program 8 games into his freshman season.
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Sort of disingenuous to use the word "needs." Making it sound like it's on somebody else. He chose to leave. Quit on his teammates--sorry, I'm old-fashioned enough that I don't have much regard for an individual like that. I saw a really shaky player with little confidence. Maybe Pitino could have used a different approach or maybe he did and it didn't matter. Whatever, you don't just quit.
 



golfing18now said:
Fair enough. I used the term "we" inappropriately and maybe "fans throwing in the towel" is a bad choice of words too. I was really trying to avoid (by using the term "we") singling out the comments that Alex made initially on the topic because his was one of many comments that bothered me. Maybe I'm too soft on the issue, maybe not. I just feel there is more to this story than an entitled kid that wanted more playing time. Even if that was the case, I would hope in the future that these issues get resolved before a talented kid needs to leave the program 8 games into his freshman season.
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Carry on by all means. I think it is good to have a few people whose instincts lead them toward being a concerned conscience. And none of us really know for sure - Pitino might be kind of a prick at times. Or, maybe is just a matter of a girl here, or a girl back there, or academic problems, or cold and dark weather, or some combination of any and all of the above.
 

They are accountable for them, but to say Martin leaving falls 100% on Pitino is complete nonsense. Unhappy players transfer all the time. It's tough to accept only playing a few minutes a game after you've been one of the best players on every team you've ever played on. Hard to see things like this coming. I wouldn't necessarily say Martin had any "baggage" coming in. In fact, he was definitely a fan favorite.

GopherOhana said:
Coach is accountable for players and recruits. Great learning experience for a young coach. Doubt we will see another recruit with this type of baggage
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Sounds like you really are living on fantasy island. Obviously character flaws CAN be obvious, but to act like you would be able to judge how well EVERY player will go through adversity at the D1 level is ignorant.

GopherOhana said:
Not responding positively to coaches that yell and playing for a coach that yells is a travel bag
Expecting to play significant minutes from the start might be a large roller bag

These should have come out during discovery, not after go live
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Exactly. Nobody felt good about the direction the program was heading.

cjbfbp said:
Or they simply weren't watching the conference games very closely during that last year. Despite the NCAA tournament appearance (which they didn't deserve in my opinion) and a win, I don't know if I've ever seen a season from a team I cared about that started with such reasons for optimism and ended with such disillusionment. Plus, he seemed to have lost his touch in recruiting. Those last two recruiting classes (including the last one that didn't come here) were really weak.
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underground629 said:
Sounds like you really are living on fantasy island. Obviously character flaws CAN be obvious, but to act like you would be able to judge how well EVERY player will go through adversity at the D1 level is ignorant.
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Again, didn't suggest character flaws or adversity. I am suggesting the two sides weren't aligned coming in. Coaching styles and playing time expectations are things that could be discussed upfront. You might have me on scope creep though.

Anything else you'd like to attribute to me that I didn't type?
 

Does anyone really know if Josh is gone in terms of giving up his class work this semester?
 

GopherOhana said:
Never said that. Accountability and control are two different things, hence the stress coaches experience
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I know you didn't. I was referring to the post that I originally commented on and then you responded to my comment. You said something about the fact that Pitino should be able to detect "baggage" on players like Martin. Martin didn't show any, as others have mentioned. It's not as easy as you seem to think. That's why there are transfers all the time.


GopherOhana said:
Again, didn't suggest character flaws or adversity. I am suggesting the two sides weren't aligned coming in. Coaching styles and playing time expectations are things that could be discussed upfront. You might have me on scope creep though. Anything else you'd like to attribute to me that I didn't type?
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Playing time expectations? Seriously? Pitino should tell him what his playing time plans are based off of watching him in High School? Players earn their playing time once they're on campus. You don't know how college athletics work.
 

freshtrout said:
Does anyone really know if Josh is gone in terms of giving up his class work this semester?
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I don't think we really need to worry with this. Finals start tomorrow, he is going to want to finish his classes so he can be ready to play next year at this time.
 

underground629 said:
You said something ... It's not as easy as you seem to think.

Playing time expectations? Seriously?
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agreed its not easy. that's why coach will get better at it over the years. Scoping and negotiating are not easy and are indeed learned skills.

Yep, playing time. Monson clearly understood this when the future ex-Mr Karkashian signed on. Who knows, maybe Ma and Pa Martin thought Josh was another LaVine.

"You don't know how college athletics work." - agreed. I'm in negotiations and projects, not college sports programs. i express my purely amateurish views regarding gopher sports and programs (programmes). I did spend two weeks as a gopher swimmer until I realized I couldn't be a student and an athlete - if that brightens my CV any. Yes, like Josh I quit on my team! but I was a walkon and a hot mess

As an aside, have college programs moved toward predictive analyses to estimate an athlete's future success? Some of this is going on in the Pros, but I'm not familiar with college programs doing this. They use it to predict where crime will happen in LA and send cops in advance, they use it to predict which scripts will become hit movies, i would think it could help improve the _odds_ of recruiting those who will both stay and progress.
 

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