Jim Souhan column: Uh, Kentucky: Y'all were right about Tubby

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That said, winning cures everything. I'm indifferent about him staying, other than it could cost us Andre Hollins if he bolts. He might be the best out of state recruit we've had in a long time and a top 30 McDonalds recruit if he was committed to Kansas or UNC.


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So in a way Jim you are giving Tubby credit for recruiting a top 30 player that is talented enough to got to Kansas or UNC? But you would never do that would you.

I realize Tubby could bolt and the thing that scares me the most is the possibility of Andre not coming. He's gonna be special.
 

HOOP DREAMS said:
That said, winning cures everything. I'm indifferent about him staying, other than it could cost us Andre Hollins if he bolts. He might be the best out of state recruit we've had in a long time and a top 30 McDonalds recruit if he was committed to Kansas or UNC.


____

So in a way Jim you are giving Tubby credit for recruiting a top 30 player that is talented enough to got to Kansas or UNC? But you would never do that would you.

I realize Tubby could bolt and the thing that scares me the most is the possibility of Andre not coming. He's gonna be special.
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Andre Hollins is rated Top 50 by some analysts. He's very talented.
 

This is completely dumbfounding.

Did Tubby rob a Macy's for Royce White? Did he turn Devoe Joseph into a prissy, "me first" player who wanted to be a big fish? Did he stomp on Al Nolen's foot and put him on the sidelines? Did he rip apart his most impactful freshman's knee tendons?

How can anyone possibly argue that Tubby hasn't been living up to expectations when uncontrollable events have wracked his entire tenure here? He's recruited the number one player in the state, twice. He's led the team to multiple postseason appearances without a full roster. He had the team in a position to remain in the top tier of the Big Ten this year before he lost arguably his BEST PLAYER.

My point is that there is way too much blame thrown around for things that cannot, and shouldn't, be blamed on anyone. There isn't one team in the nation that could bounce back from the type of personnel problems we've suffered. What if Jordan Taylor transferred from Wisconsin and Jon Leuer hurt his knee? The Badgers would be a shell. Are we really holding his feet to the fire when he is forced to start Blake freaking Hoffarber at the most important position on the court? That's what this season has come to.

Tubby has something going here, and trying to run him out of town for underperforming without sufficient resources is both ridiculous and unfair. People like Souhan are going to set us back years if they keep this up.
 

This is not surprising at all. Obviously Souhan would right this. He is a total hack.
 

I just refuse to click on the link and read Suckhan's article...that guy is a waste of air. That said...Kentucky has a bunch of AA's on thier roster this year and are 5-5 in the SEC...Duke is loaded with AA's and they lost on started and haven't been close to the same as they were...look at Mich St., lose a started and top reserve and they go into freefall.

Nobody in the top 30 has lost their starting and back up PGs. NOBODY!

Further, if you look at what we have lost in the last two years....and that fact that we are still competing for an NCAA birth is a f*cking miracle....and I blame Tubby for this...to take this team so ravaged by injury and defections...and keep us in contention...the bastard aught to be run out of town...much better to have a Monsonesque squad of NIT every other year or the Clem (what happened to our final 4) cheating scandal than a respected program that just hasn't found its legs but has all the potential in the world to be really good and maybe great...if we catch a break.

I hope Tubby stays and we get these damn 20 win seasons and NCAA births for the next 10 years...cuz I prefer them to the crap we have had for the last 15 years. Get real Suckhan...you don't know *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#.
 


We are in a better place then we were without Tubby, but it is fair to criticize him. There is no consistancy and the team peaks at the wrong time.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
We are in a better place then we were without Tubby, but it is fair to criticize him. There is no consistancy and the team peaks at the wrong time.
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No doubt. But the Souhan article is pure trash, not fair criticism.
 

I'll agree with some points and not others. Reality is somewhere in the middle, IMO...

Gophs are better off than when Tubby got here, but they are not where people expect them to be. There has been bad luck, but that bad luck has been with players he recruited, so IMO that is on him.

I also do not agree with the idea he has not recruited good enough players. If all the players her had recruited were playing, MN would be a top 10 level team and probably fighting for a top 2 or 3 B10 finish. But then again, part of the reason those players are not here is his problem

If he had Sampson, Iverson, Trevor, Royce, Blake, Nolen, and Joseph as his top 7 players, everyone would be saying he was a genius and giving him all the credit in the world. Bottom line is that is not the case, so he deserves heat.
 

I get a kick out of the folks who can say 'I didn't bother to read the article' and 'the article is a bunch of trash' all in the same post. With a straight face.
 




zipsofakron said:
This is completely dumbfounding.

Did Tubby rob a Macy's for Royce White? Did he turn Devoe Joseph into a prissy, "me first" player who wanted to be a big fish? Did he stomp on Al Nolen's foot and put him on the sidelines? Did he rip apart his most impactful freshman's knee tendons?

How can anyone possibly argue that Tubby hasn't been living up to expectations when uncontrollable events have wracked his entire tenure here? He's recruited the number one player in the state, twice. He's led the team to multiple postseason appearances without a full roster. He had the team in a position to remain in the top tier of the Big Ten this year before he lost arguably his BEST PLAYER.

My point is that there is way too much blame thrown around for things that cannot, and shouldn't, be blamed on anyone. There isn't one team in the nation that could bounce back from the type of personnel problems we've suffered. What if Jordan Taylor transferred from Wisconsin and Jon Leuer hurt his knee? The Badgers would be a shell. Are we really holding his feet to the fire when he is forced to start Blake freaking Hoffarber at the most important position on the court? That's what this season has come to.

Tubby has something going here, and trying to run him out of town for underperforming without sufficient resources is both ridiculous and unfair. People like Souhan are going to set us back years if they keep this up.
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+1000.
 

From the Barn said:
This is top 15 team with either of the top two ball handlers. Nolen doesn't break his foot and Joseph doesn't quit, Souhan has nothing to write about.
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100%! There's a group of people who never wanted Tubby here to begin with & they've had to bide their time, but are really ratcheting up their voices now to try & convert otherwise normal fans. The same ones who said Royce leaving was proof that Tubby was losing it, the same ones who said "If he can't land Corey Joseph it'll prove once & for all he can't recruit", the same ones who swore Nolen was a huge liability right after the Puerto Rico tourney, etc etc. Now their argument is that Tubby should have a 4th experienced PG to run the show at a top-15 level, but he doesn't & now THAT'S proof positive he's a bad coach. It's just stupid.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
We are in a better place then we were without Tubby, but it is fair to criticize him. There is no consistancy and the team peaks at the wrong time.
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I thought they peaked at a pretty good time last year?
 



If Al Nolen doesn't get hurt, we probably beat Indiana and Illinois, sit at 18-6 (7-5), are ranked, are discussing what seed we'll be in the tournament, and this article is never written. So for all the drama surrounding Tubby about Joseph, Cobbs, etc, the team is literally a 'bad break' away from fulfilling our expectations...
 

From the Barn said:
This is top 15 team with either of the top two ball handlers. Nolen doesn't break his foot and Joseph doesn't quit, Souhan has nothing to write about.
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Couldn't agree more...which is why this year is very depressing. It is frustrating that we essentially lost our 2 Senior guards since The Hoff is playing out of position (and I agree w/ Tubby that none of the Frosh could handle the PG position yet).
 

So maybe I should write an article after Tubby leaves for another program saying, I told you so Tubby Smith is the best thing that has happened to this program in 20 years. At least that article won't be as nearsighted...
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
100%! There's a group of people who never wanted Tubby here to begin with & they've had to bide their time, but are really ratcheting up their voices now to try & convert otherwise normal fans. The same ones who said Royce leaving was proof that Tubby was losing it, the same ones who said "If he can't land Corey Joseph it'll prove once & for all he can't recruit", the same ones who swore Nolen was a huge liability right after the Puerto Rico tourney, etc etc. Now their argument is that Tubby should have a 4th experienced PG to run the show at a top-15 level, but he doesn't & now THAT'S proof positive he's a bad coach. It's just stupid.
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Our team deserves a lot better than the fans they've been dealt.
 

I'm in the middle on this. I don't think Tubby is the greatest thing ever. But I also acknowledge that he has had some bad luck.

I do know that the Gophers would be better if they had Al Nolen. I also know that players having to cross the street to lift weights isn't the reason this program hasn't gotten better than it has.

I don't agree with many of the people on here in that Tubby has little-to-no responsibility for players leaving. As I have said on another thread when it comes to Devoe, one of three things happened: 1. Devoe was a bad guy who made bad decisions while in Toronto and the staff didn't recognize it in the recruiting process. 2. Devoe was a bad guy who made bad decisions while in Toronto, the staff knew it and couldn't break him of it. 3. Devoe changed when at Minnesota. I believe there is some Tubby culpability there (not 100 percent, but some).

I also think that some of the roster issues fall to Tubby, especially at point guard. Because of his love for bigs, I don't think there has been enough attention paid toward landing PGs. Some of that is on the staff.

If you are the highest paid public employee in the state and are making $2 million, you are ultimately responsible for the outcomes. Fair or unfair, that is life. It comes with the big salary. At the end of the day, you are what your record says you are.

I said before this season began that if the Gophers are spending the last couple of weeks of the season and the Big Ten tournament wondering if they are going to get into the NCAA tournament, then this was a bad season.
 

Souhan's takes on the Gopher, Twins, Vikings, etc. are uniformly terrible. It is hard to believe he gets paid. Of course it is fair to criticize Tubby, especially this year when expectations were high. However, the notion that he somehow failed at UK or that the UMN could hire as good or a better coach is absurd.
 

anonymous said:
I'm in the middle on this. I don't think Tubby is the greatest thing ever. But I also acknowledge that he has had some bad luck.

I do know that the Gophers would be better if they had Al Nolen. I also know that players having to cross the street to lift weights isn't the reason this program hasn't gotten better than it has.

I don't agree with many of the people on here in that Tubby has little-to-no responsibility for players leaving. As I have said on another thread when it comes to Devoe, one of three things happened: 1. Devoe was a bad guy who made bad decisions while in Toronto and the staff didn't recognize it in the recruiting process. 2. Devoe was a bad guy who made bad decisions while in Toronto, the staff knew it and couldn't break him of it. 3. Devoe changed when at Minnesota. I believe there is some Tubby culpability there (not 100 percent, but some).

I also think that some of the roster issues fall to Tubby, especially at point guard. Because of his love for bigs, I don't think there has been enough attention paid toward landing PGs. Some of that is on the staff.

If you are the highest paid public employee in the state and are making $2 million, you are ultimately responsible for the outcomes. Fair or unfair, that is life. It comes with the big salary. At the end of the day, you are what your record says you are.

I said before this season began that if the Gophers are spending the last couple of weeks of the season and the Big Ten tournament wondering if they are going to get into the NCAA tournament, then this was a bad season.
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He's not the greatest ever or even now. His record is Top 10-15 (range) among active coaches.
 

House 2 said:
Souhan's takes on the Gopher, Twins, Vikings, etc. are uniformly terrible. It is hard to believe he gets paid. Of course it is fair to criticize Tubby, especially this year when expectations were high. However, the notion that he somehow failed at UK or that the UMN could hire as good or a better coach is absurd.
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Many UK "fans" don't consider him successful, either. He meets or exceeds UK all-time standards except FF (2 per 10 years, he had only 1) and E8 (5 per 10 years, he had only 4).
 

From the Barn said:
Our team deserves a lot better than the fans they've been dealt.
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I don't think that is fair. Coach Smith played some interesting cards last week in response to the losses, and I think he deserves some heat for those statements. Is it unfair to question why his program has plateaued?

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine if he stays and think there's a good shot that he gets us to another level if he stays five more years, but I expected more by this stage in his tenure. But I don't worry whenever a job in the ACC or SEC opens because he might leave for it like I did two years ago.

Tubby Smith gave the media some material last week with his words and should own the shots he took for it.
 

From the Barn said:
This is top 15 team with either of the top two ball handlers. Nolen doesn't break his foot and Joseph doesn't quit, Souhan has nothing to write about.
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+1

not sure who anyone can take that article seriously..
 

akgopher said:
I don't think that is fair. Coach Smith played some interesting cards last week in response to the losses, and I think he deserves some heat for those statements. Is it unfair to question why his program has plateaued?

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine if he stays and think there's a good shot that he gets us to another level if he stays five more years, but I expected more by this stage in his tenure. But I don't worry whenever a job in the ACC or SEC opens because he might leave for it like I did two years ago.

Tubby Smith gave the media some material last week with his words and should own the shots he took for it.
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Unfair when you ignore the answer that is staring you in the face? Absolutely. If we were tied for third place in the Big Ten, which we would be with Al Nolen healthy, would you be saying the team has plateaued?
 

gopherbadgerman said:
I'll agree with some points and not others. Reality is somewhere in the middle, IMO...

Gophs are better off than when Tubby got here, but they are not where people expect them to be. There has been bad luck, but that bad luck has been with players he recruited, so IMO that is on him.

I also do not agree with the idea he has not recruited good enough players. If all the players her had recruited were playing, MN would be a top 10 level team and probably fighting for a top 2 or 3 B10 finish. But then again, part of the reason those players are not here is his problem

If he had Sampson, Iverson, Trevor, Royce, Blake, Nolen, and Joseph as his top 7 players, everyone would be saying he was a genius and giving him all the credit in the world. Bottom line is that is not the case, so he deserves heat.
Click to expand...

Do your nuts hurt from always riding the fence?
 

From the Barn said:
Unfair when you ignore the answer that is staring you in the face? Absolutely. If we were tied for third place in the Big Ten, which we would be with Al Nolen healthy, would you be saying the team has plateaued?
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If....

But we don't have Nolen and we don't have a suitable backup. The simple word "if" would change a lot of things for a lot of teams and coaches.
 

I swear to God the Minnesota media wants athletic failure at every turn. RARELY, do you see any support for any of the teams. Its bad coaching here, bad AD there, bad recruits, bad plans...blah, blah, blah. This area thrives on the "whoa is me" attitude and I am so sick of it!
 

I gave up reading the paper years ago. I go online for my information. Any team that has the bad luck the gophers have and are still in the hunt for a ncaa bid. We must have a pretty good coach. How many players have we lost to injuries and other off court issues?
 


Another dumb article by Souhan. Considering the *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# that's happened to this team this year (which I'd say is 95% out of Tubby's control), the fact that making the tourney is even still on the table is a goddamned miracle.
 

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