Jerry's honeymoon over?

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MNVCGUY said:
As runners they look very similar though Harnish may have been a little shiftier, tough to say. Tough to say if he will be as good a passer because Harnish was pretty solid. The other huge question will be durability, and Nelson's ability to stand getting hit a lot because they definitely like the QB draw which almost always results in your QB taking a shot from a LB. Those LB's in the BIG are bigger and stronger then the ones in the MAC. Not saying it won't work or that he won't be able to take the pounding, I just hope they have a good backup option ready to go if he can't.
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That's one thing I do wonder about.
 

station19 said:
That's one thing I do wonder about.
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Absolutely. Not saying Harnish would have been a poor BIG QB or not good enough to get some wins in the BIG, but he was playing against MAC competition for the most part. Would he have been a BIG-level MVP-type player? Probably not. People get a little carried away with the Harnish comparison. If we get a QB (hopefully Nelson is that guy) who is a better version than Harnish, then I'll get excited.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
If we're calling an 18 point loss a beatdown (which I think is fair), it wasn't much different with Brew.
YR - 1:
7 - 30 - Ohio State
20 - 40 Indiana
10 - 34 Michigan
17 - 44 Illinois
YR - 2:
0-55 Iowa
21 - 42 Kansas
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Fair enough, but we still have 5 more games to go. If we can manage to not lose to Michigan, Nebraska, and Michigan State by more than 17 points, that would be progress.
 


Based on the callers to the sports huddle this morning I know the honeymoon is over for kill. Teague too. He got bashed as well.
 


MaroonGopher said:
Just because someone doesn't slobber over Jerry Kill's amazing success in 1.5 years (sarcasm) doesn't mean they know nothing about football. It's 100 percent valid to question the direction of this program. It's not like Kill is bringing in any instant-impact players next season (or ever)
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He isn't? Didn't he bring in Phil Nelson, KJ Maye, Jamel Harbison, Scott Ekpe, Lincoln Plsek, Andre McDonald, Isaac Freuchte, Rodrick Williams, Marcus Jones.....all players recruited by Kill who have vaulted over older players at their positions on the depth chart? Didn't he recruit those kids? Aren't they impacting the team? Back to the drawing board, buddy.
 

tpbeight said:
He isn't? Didn't he bring in Phil Nelson, KJ Maye, Jamel Harbison, Scott Ekpe, Lincoln Plsek, Andre McDonald, Isaac Freuchte, Rodrick Williams, Marcus Jones.....all players recruited by Kill who have vaulted over older players at their positions on the depth chart? Didn't he recruit those kids? Aren't they impacting the team? Back to the drawing board, buddy.
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They may be playing over guys that were on the roster but that does not mean they are impact players. Not one of those guys is a star yet, maybe they will be over time but to be an impact player is different then just being a starter or seeing the field. Again not saying these guys can't become good players just saying they are not impact players to this point in their gopher careers. Of your list Nelson clearly has the best shot of being an impact guy.
 



All the former M-men I talk to that are spending time with the program or coaching in High School feel that Kill is the guy. These are guys that played for Salem, Holtz and Guttey. The consensus is that Mason was a very good Coach but alienated the local High School Football Programs, and some of the local community. Guys that have played some Golf with him since have heard him say he wishes he could have had a better relationship. Brewster, was just a blowhard, who had some recruiting ability but could not Coach nor keep anyone eligible.

Kill seems to be a Head Football Coach down to his bones. Works hard at recruiting and can coach up a 3 star player into a 4 Star, which is what we need. But Darn it why didn't we get Bill Snyder out of retirement when we had the chance! That guy can flat out Coach!!!
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
It's not over, but all the goodwill from 4-0 is gone. The fringe fans aren't going to buy tickets for a team that's looked terribly unprepared for their first three conference games. Playing all the freshmen might be part of the bigger plan, but it also looks like a desperate move to win now.
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A bigger part of the plan! Really? Why would they be a bigger part to any plan for 2012? Is it a recruiting thing for players who have no hope of playing first year elsewhere? Sorry. I am just thinking out loud here.
 

tpbeight said:
MRJ, you clearly know nothing about football, so i'm not surprised that in year 1.5 of the Kill regime, you're already pulling the plug. Now, for those fans that actually know something about the game, i would guess they're still behind coach Kill and believe he's the right man to get the program headed in the right direction.
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You are losing credibility.
 

Dean S said:
You are losing credibility.
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Since I already lost my credibility, and don't really care if I get it back, you gotta really pound the crap out of me before I bleed. I'm like a zombie. Bring your shotgun, or I simply won't go down.

Happy Halloween!

Note to self: Learn how to laugh after I fail to read my own name on a board. Just proves how big of a troll I can be! Rumors must have been true! LMAO.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
If we're calling an 18 point loss a beatdown (which I think is fair), it wasn't much different with Brew.
YR - 1:
7 - 30 - Ohio State
20 - 40 Indiana
10 - 34 Michigan
17 - 44 Illinois
YR - 2:
0-55 Iowa
21 - 42 Kansas
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One of the games you mentioned is a bowl game.


I see gopherprof's point 100% and I agree.



Brewster was beat down just as bad as we are getting beat down isn't much of a positive for any program.

Games where we flat out didn't come to play in the kill era in my opinion.
New Mexico state
North Dakota state
Michigan
Purdue
Iowa - this year

That's 5/19 .26%



"just win baby" - al Davis
"just try to look competent 12 games in a row" - Rosemountian



3 of the 8-10 most embarassing performances in my gopher watching history watching history are under kill (north dakota state, Michigan. Purdue)
 

MNVCGUY said:
As runners they look very similar though Harnish may have been a little shiftier, tough to say. Tough to say if he will be as good a passer because Harnish was pretty solid. The other huge question will be durability, and Nelson's ability to stand getting hit a lot because they definitely like the QB draw which almost always results in your QB taking a shot from a LB. Those LB's in the BIG are bigger and stronger then the ones in the MAC. Not saying it won't work or that he won't be able to take the pounding, I just hope they have a good backup option ready to go if he can't.
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Definitely a concern. Gray clearly hasn't stayed healthy at all. But it is about finding the right guy. Tim tebow and cam newton stayed healthy running a ton in the sec. As did that big guy from mississippi state. Nesbitt took a lot of hits in the acc. Pat white did in the big east. Previous Oregon QBs ran a lot (Dennis Dixon blew his ACL on a play where he didn't get touched) Nebraska ran option in the 90s with crouch.

Gotta have depth. Gotta find the right guy.
 

Rosemountian said:
One of the games you mentioned is a bowl game.

I see gopherprof's point 100% and I agree.

Brewster was beat down just as bad as we are getting beat down isn't much of a positive for any program.

Games where we flat out didn't come to play in the kill era in my opinion.
New Mexico state
North Dakota state
Michigan
Purdue
Iowa - this year

That's 5/19 .26%



"just win baby" - al Davis
"just try to look competent 12 games in a row" - Rosemountian



3 of the 8-10 most embarassing performances in my gopher watching history watching history are under kill (north dakota state, Michigan. Purdue)
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I completely agree, I was just pointing out that we also got blown out quite a bit in Brew's first few seasons

In general I agree with you though, I do think Kill is getting more of a pass than Brew was given for the same kind of affinity for getting blown out. There are also other factors, with Brew we were coming off a bowl game when he was hired. I'm not saying that excuses the different kind of treatment because I think cupboard was just as bare for Brew as it was for Kill, but I think people's expectations were different so their treatment is different. Unfortunately, we're used to getting blown out with Brew, we weren't.
 

gold82 said:
All the former M-men I talk to that are spending time with the program or coaching in High School feel that Kill is the guy. These are guys that played for Salem, Holtz and Guttey. The consensus is that Mason was a very good Coach but alienated the local High School Football Programs, and some of the local community. Guys that have played some Golf with him since have heard him say he wishes he could have had a better relationship. Brewster, was just a blowhard, who had some recruiting ability but could not Coach nor keep anyone eligible.

Kill seems to be a Head Football Coach down to his bones. Works hard at recruiting and can coach up a 3 star player into a 4 Star, which is what we need. But Darn it why didn't we get Bill Snyder out of retirement when we had the chance! That guy can flat out Coach!!!
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+1 The problem is that these guys know what it takes to coach while our "experts" think they know but don't realize how little they know. Why would any decent coach want to come here if we are not willing to give them the time to put in their program. The good news though is that Eric Kaler is smarter and more patient than the people who think they know how to coach.
 

MNVCGUY said:
They may be playing over guys that were on the roster but that does not mean they are impact players. Not one of those guys is a star yet, maybe they will be over time but to be an impact player is different then just being a starter or seeing the field. Again not saying these guys can't become good players just saying they are not impact players to this point in their gopher careers. Of your list Nelson clearly has the best shot of being an impact guy.
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They aren't stars yet? I wonder what they're waiting for? It's been 2.5 months! they should be making a major impact right now, right? Your patience is amazing. You've watched Nelson play for 4 quarts, but you've already identified him as a future star. That's awesome. Too bad for the other freshmen that they just don't measure up in your eyes.
 

tpbeight said:
They aren't stars yet? I wonder what they're waiting for? It's been 2.5 months! they should be making a major impact right now, right? Your patience is amazing. You've watched Nelson play for 4 quarts, but you've already identified him as a future star. That's awesome. Too bad for the other freshmen that they just don't measure up in your eyes.
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Did you even read what I wrote? The point was impact players. In my opinion an impact player is more than just a guy who sees the field as a starter. All of the players referenced are seeing the field but not one of them is a true game changing type of talent (yet), those guys are few and far between. Doesn't mean they are not quality players just means they are not impact players at this point in their gopher careers.
 

The furor isn't about the losses, it's all about the $800,000. Some of the same people who said that "nobody outside of Gopherhole" cares about the UNC money are the same people who are know talking about lowering expectations. About giving Kill time to turn things around. It quit being that simple last week, and all the whining about "people who REALLY know football" ain't got nothing to do with it.

Kill had expectations about as low as he could get them going into the season. Then he won 4 games and continued to talk about how thin and "very young" they were. He might have gotten away with it. Probably should have gotten away with it. Then HE (as Norwood constantly tells us) spent $800,000 to NOT play two games.

His honeymoon's over all right, but not because of the QB situation or the Run Defense. No, it's all because of Minnesotans and money.
 

NO we have changed coaches like people change underwear around here. At some point you have to draw a line in the sand and say I'm going to trust this guy. We do not need the excuse making though, coach said he would be accountable and he so far has been. The media firestorm over the New Mexico State game and North Carolina will blow over, people are peeved about the $800,000 because the program has a hard time selling tickets and generating enough revenue to win more fans over to selling more tickets. We have to stop getting clobbered by the Big time programs, and be more competitive in the Big 10. I think the coaches know that and that is why there tossing the young guys in to the thick of the fire. At some point you do have to say if I'm going to get beat and go down, go down fighting with the best you have. Since they have lit the fire with Nelson and Williams, if Pirsig and Hayes are good enough it may be time to turn them loose too. If it is a grease fire and your playing everyone else that can give you a chance to win or even a change to win then you go with it. Pirsig certainly looks the part of a guy that could compete
at tackle. Just his size and strength alone would give you a shot. If Olson is going to be out, I pull the shirt and Pirsig and start him too.
If Gray does not get hurt I don't think there is any chance they would be taking this approach with Nelson. I don't necessarily agree with pulling the shirts but if there is someone that looks the part getting off the bus it is certainly Pirsig.
You do have to give the kids a chance to win, that I why I think they unleashed Nelson, with out even a chance to win at QB it is pointless to keep putting ineffective
or hurt quarterbacks on the field.
 

beavergopher said:
Season in a death spiral after hopeful start. Chickens out of UNC series, who have a first year coach, while pissing away needed money for the athletic dept. Gets ass kicked by both arch rivals who are having down years. Starting to wonder if this is going to work. So sick of losing to the Badger.................in honor of Clem Haskins.
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He never promised us a rose garden..................in honor if the U.S. Marines. The day he came and the weeks and months in the beginning he told us how fubar the state of the program was. Let him the run the show because the minute he thinks his way won't work, he will move on and do it somewhere else. Its not easy at times to keep losing but the thing you need to recognized is this program now has the attention of the President of the University and an athletic director who is as aggressive and innovative. Next year will show more of what we want, don't expect to win the division.
 

Iceland12 said:
The furor isn't about the losses, it's all about the $800,000. Some of the same people who said that "nobody outside of Gopherhole" cares about the UNC money are the same people who are know talking about lowering expectations. About giving Kill time to turn things around. It quit being that simple last week, and all the whining about "people who REALLY know football" ain't got nothing to do with it.

Kill had expectations about as low as he could get them going into the season. Then he won 4 games and continued to talk about how thin and "very young" they were. He might have gotten away with it. Probably should have gotten away with it. Then HE (as Norwood constantly tells us) spent $800,000 to NOT play two games.

His honeymoon's over all right, but not because of the QB situation or the Run Defense. No, it's all because of Minnesotans and money.
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+1. Ask Joe Mauer if Minnesotans can get hung up on $$.
 

gold82 said:
All the former M-men I talk to that are spending time with the program or coaching in High School feel that Kill is the guy. These are guys that played for Salem, Holtz and Guttey. The consensus is that Mason was a very good Coach but alienated the local High School Football Programs, and some of the local community. Guys that have played some Golf with him since have heard him say he wishes he could have had a better relationship. Brewster, was just a blowhard, who had some recruiting ability but could not Coach nor keep anyone eligible.

Kill seems to be a Head Football Coach down to his bones. Works hard at recruiting and can coach up a 3 star player into a 4 Star, which is what we need. But Darn it why didn't we get Bill Snyder out of retirement when we had the chance! That guy can flat out Coach!!!
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Exactly! Same thing I have heard and been told.

There is no magic wand and pixie dust for Gophers football. Never has been in my 35 years. It's gonna take blood, sweat, hard work, and tears to make this team good. Coach Kill will leave this team better off when he is gone than when he took over. Bank on it.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Did you even read what I wrote? The point was impact players. In my opinion an impact player is more than just a guy who sees the field as a starter. All of the players referenced are seeing the field but not one of them is a true game changing type of talent (yet), those guys are few and far between. Doesn't mean they are not quality players just means they are not impact players at this point in their gopher careers.
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Right. That's MY point: Kill has been here 1.5 years. Can he have a little time to bring in some players? The freshmen this season MIGHT someday be impact players. These are Kill's recruits. Can we wait on them just a bit or do we need a final verdict on Kill and the entire program half-way through his second season? The point of everything is this: It takes time. You need to give Kill and his staff the time.

....or don't. Just keep writing ridiculous BS like most of the others here. Kill is a great football coach and he's a program builder. He IS the guy to right the ship. He's just not going to do it in a ridiculously short amount of time like some are hoping.
 

tpbeight said:
Right. That's MY point: Kill has been here 1.5 years. Can he have a little time to bring in some players? The freshmen this season MIGHT someday be impact players. These are Kill's recruits. Can we wait on them just a bit or do we need a final verdict on Kill and the entire program half-way through his second season? The point of everything is this: It takes time. You need to give Kill and his staff the time.

....or don't. Just keep writing ridiculous BS like most of the others here. Kill is a great football coach and he's a program builder. He IS the guy to right the ship. He's just not going to do it in a ridiculously short amount of time like some are hoping.
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I have said numerous times no matter what happens he should get a minimum of 4 years. He needs to show steady improvement in those 4 years but nothing should happen till after 2014 at the earliest. I have also said in both my posts that these players you mentioned might develop into impact players but they are not at this point and time.

I wish I had the same faith in Kill as you do to believe whole heartedly he is the guy to get it done. He very well might be but I have my reasons for wondering if he really will be the guy to bring things to the next level. I honeslty don't know that he can recruit/develop the kind of talent you need to compete in the Big Ten, hopefully he proves me wrong (not that he gives a crap what anyone outside his inner circle thinks).

Yes he has built a prgram at Southern Illinois in reletive obscurity. He has never built a program on this level (he didn't build NIU), it is a different animal when you have the kind of pressure that comes with coaching at this level. And again none of this is to say he won't be the guy to do it, obviously as a Gopher fan I hope like hell he is. Only time will tell.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
NO we have changed coaches like people change underwear around here. At some point you have to draw a line in the sand and say I'm going to trust this guy.
That's right! If the honeymoon is the period when pie-in-the-sky emotions trump reality, then we as a fanbase need to be ready for the marriage. As a fan, I wish I could feel all honeymoon-ish by relishing surprise victories for axes, jugs and pigs, but the reality is, we got creamed by a team we are not ready for yet. Kill is not trying to lower our expectations by saying we're young and inexperienced and injured; he's just telling the truth. We have to live with it, because he's our guy, and this is our team, honeymoon or not!

I was really excited about that UNC game, being in my backyard and all; however, I trust Kill and Teague to guide this program to prominence, stability and excellence.

But it's a message board, and my opinion is worth the same as everyone else's: diddly. Thanks for listening!

Go Gophers!
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