Jerry Kill's Recruiting 101

ecoperson

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I see obvious disappointment on this board about the way this class is shaping up. With a week to go, I keep hearing the sky is falling because the class is at the bottom of the Big 10. I wanted to share my perspective. I do not want to turn this into a pi55ing match about recruiting stars, etc. I have read too much of that over the last two weeks. To me, the key phrases are 'recruiting upside' and 'needs and balance.'

Recruiting Upside
This coaching staff has identified holes or thin positions that they know need to be shored up to improve our competitiveness. I trust that they have a plan and are moving forward in trying to achieve the mix of athletes that they feel will allow us to compete in the Big Ten. They are fully aware that 5 star athletes are not dropping out of the sky to sign with the U of M. The coaches are targeting student athletes that will help them change the culture of the program.

These individuals must be able to make the grade academically, good citizens, AND have the dreaded tag of 'upside.' They are counting on polishing these players into future quality athletes. They may be younger players who are still growing into their frames, players coming off of injury, etc. The staff hopes that enough of these unpolished players develop in order to compete. Let's face it- the staff is not known for their recruiting prowess in the star-based recruiting rankings but they have been successful whereever they have gone. This points to their belief in a system that works for THEM and may just not please the national publications.

Another tough pill to swallow is that our program IS at or near the bottom of the Big Ten now. It is difficult to move up when everyone above you already has the success and resume to attract the higher ranked athletes. For the time being, we will not see our recruits in the upper tier of the Big Ten. It is just not going to happen. I am pleased to hear that the coaching staff is already actively recruiting the next class. Their hard work in building relationships will pay off in the end.

Needs and Balance
It is ludicrous to me that a Big Ten program can not even put on a full spring game due to lack of players at certain positions. If one of the big boy schools recruits all 5 star players but they all play left tackle, that school will be ranked highly in the national ranking systems but will have no balance and will not be successful. These coaches are putting much energy into ensuring that there is adequate depth at all positions and that there is a structure in place so that the year classes are also more well-balanced.

Finally, the staff knows what they want and need in a recruit. If all of the highly-rated linemen are adept at pass protection but poor at creating holes for the rushing attack, they are not going to chase the highly-rated player if they want an excellent run blocker. They will get the player that fits their need regardless of their rating. Let's count on the coaches to have a plan of action and stick to it. Maybe we will all be pleasantly surprised!
 

I wish everyone would just calm down about recruiting. The woe is me attitude is such a turn off. I agree with eco, needs and balance is what is needed more than anything, after all it is a TEAM game. No one player is going to make any TEAM a champion, at least not in this day and age. Jerry Kill knows how to coach kids up, im not worrying at all. Now if we still suck in 4 years then I'll start to be concerned. Lets just see how this thing plays out.
 

Recruiting Upside
Another tough pill to swallow is that our program IS at or near the bottom of the Big Ten now. It is difficult to move up when everyone above you already has the success and resume to attract the higher ranked athletes. For the time being, we will not see our recruits in the upper tier of the Big Ten. It is just not going to happen. I am pleased to hear that the coaching staff is already actively recruiting the next class. Their hard work in building relationships will pay off in the end.

Finally, the staff knows what they want and need in a recruit. If all of the highly-rated linemen are adept at pass protection but poor at creating holes for the rushing attack, they are not going to chase the highly-rated player if they want an excellent run blocker. They will get the player that fits their need regardless of their rating.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, except these two points:

In the first paragraph, you incorrectly state, as many people on this board have, that our lack of on-the-field success is what is making us an undesirable program for recruits. However, numerous studies have shown that recent success is usually very low on the list of priorities for a recruit, and, even if you just look at this year, we are losing recruits to similar programs with limited recent success. It's easy to say "well when we start winning the recruits will come" but the facts simply don't bear that out. If you aren't getting high-profile commits in your first full year (when most coaches see their most recruiting success), you likely never will (Kirk Ferentz at Iowa is a rare exception, and even their recent classes are just ok). A lot of this is well beyond the reach of Kill (Minnesota doesn't produce many BCS-level players and many people in the South think Minnesota is part of Canada). Brewster was able to get higher-profile guys in part due to his talents as a pitchman, and also because he took a lot of risks, many of which didn't work out.

The second point is also factually incorrect. We have offered a TON of players this year, many of whom are 4 and 5 star players. It's just that they aren't interested, so we're falling back on guys that are under-the-radar (which you basically said in another part of your post). We would MUCH rather have the guy with offers from LSU and USC than the guy with offers from Navy and Western Michigan, scheme be damned. Kill is recruiting mostly athletes anyway, and any coach worth a damn would find a role for those types of players (and, for the record, he's said many times he would love to have the 5 star athletes, but he makes do with what he has)
 


Many players might not want to play for an "Old School" coach. Kill demands kids go to class, hit the weight room and work extremely hard. To me all attributes are clearly "Minnesotan". His culture is exactly like how I grew up!!! I don't believe many here would disagree with my post.
 




So if you had put him on ANY other of the 120 DI teams at random, they would have been national champions? Think not.
He didn't say, make ANY team a champion, he said "a" team a champion. That's not the same thing.

Auburn was 8-5 before Newton and 8-5 after him. He was there one year, took a decent program, and made them a National Champ. He was the difference.
 

He didn't say, make ANY team a champion, he said "a" team a champion. That's not the same thing.

Auburn was 8-5 before Newton and 8-5 after him. He was there one year, took a decent program, and made them a National Champ. He was the difference.

Cam Newton is the kind of player who should have been in a "Major Junior Football League" which does not exist to my knowledge.
 



Gopherprof,

I understand where you are coming from but can not agree with your studies. The good schools stay good because the recruits want to play for a winner or a storied program that used to be a winner. If this were not the case, we would see more parity in college sports. Let's face it, the same schools are in the polls this year as were 10 years ago or 20 years ago. A handful might change but the bulk of them are the same old schools. Success breeds success.

If I rank the twenty total fictious schools in sport X from 1-20 at the end of the season, there is a strong liklihood that the schools in each quartile will receive the same recruiting ranking the following Feb. Everyone expects the Gophers to miraculously hurdle this trend. If the number 10 team in the nation at the end of the season in my scenario somehow jumps to the 5th ranked recruiting class, this means that the five teams ranked 5-9 will all fall a spot relative to where they 'should' be. There are suddenly five fanbases that are whining about their recruiting falling off pace! My point is that someone has to fall down for someone to go up. A one rank increase in the polls means that some other team must fall a spot. A ten rank increase in a poll means that some combination of other teams must fall a total of ten spots. When you consider the haves and the have nots, how likely is it that the haves will fall? How likely is it for the Gophers to climb? Why?

As to your second point, I never meant to imply that they haven't been contacting highly ranked athletes. I said they were going to recruit for positions of need. If Joe Smith is a 5-star athlete whose skill set doesn't fill the team's need, the coaching staff isn't all of a sudden going to abandon their schemes. Some players just don't fit. The coaches know and the players know it.

Our hope is that Coach Kill changes the chemistry of this entire program so that it helps more highly ranked athletes see the benefits of being part of this team. This includes work behind the scenes with the administration, increasing the fan base, AND improving the on-field product. The man seems to have a methodical way of doing things, a plan, and the patience to see it through. The long-term contract allows him the ability to be slightly more patient. Let's build this thing on concrete!
 

I think Kill understands the long road he needs to travel before he's celebrated here.

As for this class, We have 2 highly thought of OL, a highly thought of QB, and a highly thought of WR. Add to that alot of depth/athlete/developmental/position change types and JUCOs, this class isn't going to set recruitniks' worlds afire, but it's far from pointless.

Kill has succeeded everywhere he's gone. In several different places and situations including at least one far more dire than ours here at MN.
To discount this is silly, it's a good snapshot of what to expect, history tells you alot about a coach.

I know it hurts to hear but likely our best bet for a "breakthrough" recruiting class will come in 2014 or 2015 after a return to bowl game contention and probably due to kids from this class redshirting and creating a culture of tough football and solid fundamentals they use to surprise more talented teams.
 

Well stated. In the grand scheme of things, all I care about are the wins and losses. If we had the worst recruiting class in the world yet still ended up as Big Ten, I could care less. (I know that isn't the way things works!) One can only get excited about the reputation and films of recruits for so long before we have to start looking for performance.
 

I think Kill understands the long road he needs to travel before he's celebrated here.

As for this class, We have 2 highly thought of OL, a highly thought of QB, and a highly thought of WR. Add to that alot of depth/athlete/developmental/position change types and JUCOs, this class isn't going to set recruitniks' worlds afire, but it's far from pointless.

Kill has succeeded everywhere he's gone. In several different places and situations including at least one far more dire than ours here at MN.
To discount this is silly, it's a good snapshot of what to expect, history tells you alot about a coach.

I know it hurts to hear but likely our best bet for a "breakthrough" recruiting class will come in 2014 or 2015 after a return to bowl game contention and probably due to kids from this class redshirting and creating a culture of tough football and solid fundamentals they use to surprise more talented teams.

+1
 





There is not much difference between a 35th rated class and a 60th rated class.
It will all show itself in time.


Now if we were in the hundreds I'd be concerned.
If we were in the top 15 classes I'd be convened (that we were cheating).


Honestly the differences between the middling classes isn't known for years.
Everyone knows who the top classes will be now. But in 3 years the 60th class is as likely to be the 40th team as the 50th class is.
 

I kind of broke up the class into 3 tiers. The "Highly Touted", the recruits that people aren't jumping up and down about but, at the same time, do not have a problem with, and the "Lesser Touted." I'm no scout, but I'll give my two cents on why some of lesser touted recruits may be unfairly put into that "tier" by some GHers. This isn't supposed to degrade recruits or anything. Just showing why some of the commits with little hype might end up okay.

Highly Touted:
- Jamel Harbison
- Isaac Hayes
- Andre McDonald
- Dinero Moss
- Philip Nelson
- Jonah Pirsig
- Maxx Williams

No One Has a Problem With
- Briean Boddy
- James Gillium
- Jordan Hinojosa
- Antonio Johnson
- Roland Johnson
- Mitch Leidner
- Jack Lynn
- KJ Maye
- Lincoln Plsek
- Nick Rallis
- Martez Shabazz
- Rodrick Williams Jr.

Lesser Touted
- Duke Anyanwu - has the frame and athleticism to develop into a nice H-Back
- Scott Ekpe - Committed relatively early so he maybe could have seen more offers
- Isaac Fruechte - Kind of in the crowd wondering why we offered Fruechte. But Kill obviously like Fruechte because he offered him so early, so I wouldn't be surprised if Isaac sees a lot of PT right away.
- Alex Keith - doesn't have may offers, but his film shows a ton of athleticism and potential
- Ben Lauer - May have been a fall back option, but Kill wanted three O-Lineman in this class, so I'm okay with this commitment. Probably a GS
- Eric Murray - Supposedly shut down McDonald
- Brian Nicholson - committed early so probably would have seen more offers
- Damarius Travis - he had an offer from Western Michigan so he's gotta be good ;)
 

I think Kill understands the long road he needs to travel before he's celebrated here.

As for this class, We have 2 highly thought of OL, a highly thought of QB, and a highly thought of WR. Add to that alot of depth/athlete/developmental/position change types and JUCOs, this class isn't going to set recruitniks' worlds afire, but it's far from pointless.

Kill has succeeded everywhere he's gone. In several different places and situations including at least one far more dire than ours here at MN.
To discount this is silly, it's a good snapshot of what to expect, history tells you alot about a coach.

Kill's track record definitely can not be discounted. It also can't be looked on as a sure sign that he will succeed here. Only time will show that. As to the recruiting question, we all have to trust that the coaches are going to get the athletes they need to be successful. It is way to easy to bash the class for being light on star power it is also way to easy to give Kill a pass saying he is getting the players he wants.

And to the OP I agree with most of your takes as well. The only thing I would avoid if I were you is saying the coaches are not going to go after a 5-star kid if he doesn't do everything well or fit into the mold they are looking for. Most 5 star kids are rated that way because they do everything well, if there are holes in their game they are pretty unlikely to get that high ranking. It is a small detail but you have pulled that example a few times. Like someone else pointed out the staff has pursued and offered a lot of higher ranked talent, they just haven't landed many of them.

We will see over time how it all plays out, hopefully Kill and company can get these kids in and turn them into quality Big Ten players. There just is not a ton to get excited about on paper in this class. Doesn't make it a bad class and doesn't mean a lot of these guys won't turn out to be good players, it just is what it is.
 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, except these two points:

In the first paragraph, you incorrectly state, as many people on this board have, that our lack of on-the-field success is what is making us an undesirable program for recruits. However, numerous studies have shown that recent success is usually very low on the list of priorities for a recruit, and, even if you just look at this year, we are losing recruits to similar programs with limited recent success. It's easy to say "well when we start winning the recruits will come" but the facts simply don't bear that out. If you aren't getting high-profile commits in your first full year (when most coaches see their most recruiting success), you likely never will (Kirk Ferentz at Iowa is a rare exception, and even their recent classes are just ok). A lot of this is well beyond the reach of Kill (Minnesota doesn't produce many BCS-level players and many people in the South think Minnesota is part of Canada). Brewster was able to get higher-profile guys in part due to his talents as a pitchman, and also because he took a lot of risks, many of which didn't work out.

The second point is also factually incorrect. We have offered a TON of players this year, many of whom are 4 and 5 star players. It's just that they aren't interested, so we're falling back on guys that are under-the-radar (which you basically said in another part of your post). We would MUCH rather have the guy with offers from LSU and USC than the guy with offers from Navy and Western Michigan, scheme be damned. Kill is recruiting mostly athletes anyway, and any coach worth a damn would find a role for those types of players (and, for the record, he's said many times he would love to have the 5 star athletes, but he makes do with what he has)


This comment got me thinking thus I did a comparison. No question, Coach Kill has offered a lot of players. I choose to compare our approach to our hated rivals: Iowa and Wisconsin.

Kill has about 180 offers out there; Two are to 5* (1%) and 38 are to 4*(21%) according to Rivals.

Compare that to Iowa's 136 offers with 7-5*(5%) and 47-3*(35%). Wisconsin on the other hand has been much more selective with just 82 offers with 5-5*(6%) and 32-4*(39%).

Clearly Coach Kill is beating the bushes to shore up the numbers. He is going after the second and third tier prospects as he knows that: (1) the 5* and 4* have no interest in joining a program that is rebuilding, (2) he needs bodies/numbers, and now, and he needs to bring in the type of student/athlete that is interested in getting a degree, not just playing in the NFL, to maintain an acceptable level of depth and minimum roster turnover.

Our neighbors have shown that higher rated players will consider them over the likes of MN/Indiana/etc. due to their recent success. Especially Wisconsin.

In the meantime, Coach Kill is following his plan to step by step build the program from the bottom up like he did in his previous stops, especially SIU. Time will tell whether he will be able to elevate the Gophers to the point where the top guns will even consider a Gopher offer, let alone choose to be a Gopher.

Coach Kill has a tough road ahead but I am confident he understands what it takes to get there.
 

Gopherprof,

I understand where you are coming from but can not agree with your studies. The good schools stay good because the recruits want to play for a winner or a storied program that used to be a winner. If this were not the case, we would see more parity in college sports. Let's face it, the same schools are in the polls this year as were 10 years ago or 20 years ago. A handful might change but the bulk of them are the same old schools. Success breeds success.
Yes, but recent success is not the same thing as program prestige. Schools like Florida State, Notre Dame, Texas, UCLA, Ohio State, etc., have been down recently. It has had no observable effect on their recruiting, because those programs still carry weight (and for the most part come from great recruiting areas). Wisconsin has been a great program in terms of W/L for over a decade, and while their recruiting has slightly improved, they'll likely never be in the same class as Ohio State and Michigan.

If I rank the twenty total fictious schools in sport X from 1-20 at the end of the season, there is a strong likelihood that the schools in each quartile will receive the same recruiting ranking the following Feb. Everyone expects the Gophers to miraculously hurdle this trend.
I don't think anyone in the world expects that. I think some people are concerned because we're taking a lot of guys with offers from MAC schools and nobody else. We're losing recruits to Iowa State and Purdue (not to mention Arkansas State and Rice). Nobody expects us to beat out Ohio State and Notre Dame.


When you consider the haves and the have nots, how likely is it that the haves will fall? How likely is it for the Gophers to climb? Why?
Brewster, for all his faults, proved that you can recruit players with lengthy offer lists to come play here. The fact that he couldn't do *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# with them after they got here doesn't negate the first point.

As to your second point, I never meant to imply that they haven't been contacting highly ranked athletes. I said they were going to recruit for positions of need. If Joe Smith is a 5-star athlete whose skill set doesn't fill the team's need, the coaching staff isn't all of a sudden going to abandon their schemes. Some players just don't fit. The coaches know and the players know it.
If the coaching staff could get any 5-star player, they would take him, and find something to do with him. Any coach would. That's a no-brainer, quite frankly.
 

I would put Hinojosha in the top group. He has a good offer list by Minnesota standards.
 

No one said that a single down year was going to collapse recruiting. Until last season, Texas had been first or second every year since 1998, and had won ten or more games every year since 2001. Until last season, Ohio State won the conference the previous five seasons. That doesn't wear off overnight. How the team recently finished is one factor, no one said it was the only factor.
 

Kill's is not going to take a marginal 4 star with risky academics. A lot of our four stars from Brewster were just that. He is all about character, hard work, academics. Its easier to coach up hard working smart kids.
 

If most of those guys make it to senior day, we're going to have a lot more success than with a top 20 class where half the guys flunk out or transfer.
 

Kill's is not going to take a marginal 4 star with risky academics.
He's not? How do you know? Shabazz was rejected by Baylor for academic reasons and we snatched him right up.

I like Kill's emphasis on academics. I think that if he had Brewster's recruits when they were first here, they would be in a lot better shape.

But let's not go overboard here. Kill wants to win football games as much as anybody, and every damn near every school has academic/character concerns.
 

I believe Shabazz was not let into Baylor b/c some of his credits didn't count but they do at Minny. Not a so called academic risk. Not a 4 star either.
 

Gopherprof,

I think we tend to be closer in perspective than we think and are quibbling over minor differences in semantics.

You discuss program prestige... nearly every BCS team in the country has more prestige than the U of M because of our history. We haven't won even a share of a conference title in over 40 years! If students don't see the name of your school in lights at least once in their lifetime, it is difficult to convince them that the U is the place for them if they are from out of state. Purdue and Iowa State have not been world beaters but have at least had their moments in the last decade or two. (I don't know who went to Arkansas State and Rice but I am fairly certain that we cooled on them!)

To follow up on a point I made earlier- it takes schools to go down in order for the U to go up. That is the way competition works- someone wins and someone loses. Its 50/50. We have to have other schools slip in order for us to gain. Once you are on a rung of ladder, it is hard get knocked off unless something out of the ordinary happens. Its negative inertia. Change takes a lot of effort. Thankfully Coach Kill seems to be doing his part here.

We will have to just disagree on the 5* athlete. The coaches wouldn't want them because they don't fit the style and the player wouldn't even sniff for the same reason. There are recruits who know they fit the offense of glamour school A but don't fit at glamour school B. Both schools by all rights should be ABLE to compete for the recruit but it isn't going to happen. B isn't interested and vice versa. The same holds true in many cases with a less glamourous program and 5* recruits who may not have the skill set. I am trying to imagine the cenario where a 5* QB with a cannon of an arm just loves the U and wants to commit even though he has slightly below average running skills which is a poor fit for the system Coach Kill prefers. Does Coach Kill say, "Dad gum son, we'd love to have you and we'll scrap our entire offensive set and all of the recruits we have invested in over the years to make you fit" or "Son, I know you have dreamed of playing for us since you were 10 but we really think you can best help us as a possession WR." I will with great certainty say that it will be the latter and, 99% of the time, the recruit is never heard from again.
 

I believe Shabazz was not let into Baylor b/c some of his credits didn't count but they do at Minny. Not a so called academic risk. Not a 4 star either.
So they will make allowances for 3 star players, but not 4 star players. Makes sense.

It's still an question of academics. Quite frankly, most JUCOs are going to be higher academic risks.

And that's ok, almost everyone takes risks. It's what you do to win games. I'd be willing to buy that Kill will take less than Brewster, but the idea that he's not getting 4 star players because he cares so much about classroom performance...it's like saying you're not dating a supermodel because you care so much about personality.
 

You discuss program prestige... nearly every BCS team in the country has more prestige than the U of M because of our history. We haven't won even a share of a conference title in over 40 years! If students don't see the name of your school in lights at least once in their lifetime, it is difficult to convince them that the U is the place for them if they are from out of state. Purdue and Iowa State have not been world beaters but have at least had their moments in the last decade or two. (I don't know who went to Arkansas State and Rice but I am fairly certain that we cooled on them!)
Jalen Whitlow to Arkansas State and Dennis Parks to Rice. We had both guys in on visits. There are other players we've offered who went the non-BCS route, but I'm guessing most of those were academic risks or offers we pulled, not the case on those two. Not the biggest deal in the world, but still, you'd like to not lose recruits to Rice.

On the issue of Iowa State. Ugh...I hope not. I mean, I'm a pretty cynical guy, but the day our program is considered below Iowa State...I just can't face that. At the very least we're in a better conference/town/facilities/etc.

We will have to just disagree on the 5* athlete. The coaches wouldn't want them because they don't fit the style and the player wouldn't even sniff for the same reason. There are recruits who know they fit the offense of glamour school A but don't fit at glamour school B. Both schools by all rights should be ABLE to compete for the recruit but it isn't going to happen. B isn't interested and vice versa. The same holds true in many cases with a less glamourous program and 5* recruits who may not have the skill set. I am trying to imagine the cenario where a 5* QB with a cannon of an arm just loves the U and wants to commit even though he has slightly below average running skills which is a poor fit for the system Coach Kill prefers. Does Coach Kill say, "Dad gum son, we'd love to have you and we'll scrap our entire offensive set and all of the recruits we have invested in over the years to make you fit" or "Son, I know you have dreamed of playing for us since you were 10 but we really think you can best help us as a possession WR." I will with great certainty say that it will be the latter and, 99% of the time, the recruit is never heard from again.
Yes, we'll just disagree. That's fine. That's a good Coach Kill impression, btw.
 

Gopherprof,

I think we tend to be closer in perspective than we think and are quibbling over minor differences in semantics.

You discuss program prestige... nearly every BCS team in the country has more prestige than the U of M because of our history. We haven't won even a share of a conference title in over 40 years! If students don't see the name of your school in lights at least once in their lifetime, it is difficult to convince them that the U is the place for them if they are from out of state. Purdue and Iowa State have not been world beaters but have at least had their moments in the last decade or two. (I don't know who went to Arkansas State and Rice but I am fairly certain that we cooled on them!)

To follow up on a point I made earlier- it takes schools to go down in order for the U to go up. That is the way competition works- someone wins and someone loses. Its 50/50. We have to have other schools slip in order for us to gain. Once you are on a rung of ladder, it is hard get knocked off unless something out of the ordinary happens. Its negative inertia. Change takes a lot of effort. Thankfully Coach Kill seems to be doing his part here.

We will have to just disagree on the 5* athlete. The coaches wouldn't want them because they don't fit the style and the player wouldn't even sniff for the same reason. There are recruits who know they fit the offense of glamour school A but don't fit at glamour school B. Both schools by all rights should be ABLE to compete for the recruit but it isn't going to happen. B isn't interested and vice versa. The same holds true in many cases with a less glamourous program and 5* recruits who may not have the skill set. I am trying to imagine the cenario where a 5* QB with a cannon of an arm just loves the U and wants to commit even though he has slightly below average running skills which is a poor fit for the system Coach Kill prefers. Does Coach Kill say, "Dad gum son, we'd love to have you and we'll scrap our entire offensive set and all of the recruits we have invested in over the years to make you fit" or "Son, I know you have dreamed of playing for us since you were 10 but we really think you can best help us as a possession WR." I will with great certainty say that it will be the latter and, 99% of the time, the recruit is never heard from again.

Academics is the number one concern of kids picking schools. Nothing more nothing less.
 




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