Jelly Transferring

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cjbfbp said:
I'll repeat the advice of my prior post and ask that you make special note of it this time:


"...no one should care whether or not I like him anyway"
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Hey man, I care if don't nobody else care.
 

manderson1984 said:
Appreciate the clarification, although I could care less if you like him or not. I do enjoy good conversation and am curious of fans logic behind their thoughts. Especially if I respect their opinion because they have noticed something I have missed. I do apologize for responding to you on a message board, it was totally out of line on my part.
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I'm sorry for being overly curt with that remark. My point was that this my opinion of a person and there is no point going around and around about it especially since, in the grand scheme of things, my opinion about Pitino should only matter to me. I don't like the way he has treated some players and that goes all the way back to Elliot during his second season and has continued a few times since then with the latest being Washington. That may not bother other people (and that's fine by me) but it rubs me the wrong way.
 

Former Goofer said:
I find it fairly hilarious that people here refuse to cheer for and vilify MN kids that choose to go elsewhere and yet wish "Jelly" the best for abandoning this program.
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Isaiah chose MN. He ended up not cutting it here. Big difference.


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Bordergopher said:
Isaiah chose MN. He ended up not cutting it here. Big difference.


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Huh? No there isn't. If anything it's worse since he left because he wasn't handed minutes without earning them and pouted a ton.
 

Former Goofer said:
Huh? No there isn't. If anything it's worse since he left because he wasn't handed minutes without earning them and pouted a ton.
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Wrong. He had unique skills, you can't bench a guy with those types of skills! Forget the fact he shot and drove at the wrong times in the game... threw up bricks and got stuffed a lot. Also, no big deal that his a/to was awful vs. the better teams!
 


Former Goofer said:
I find it fairly hilarious that people here refuse to cheer for and vilify MN kids that choose to go elsewhere and yet wish "Jelly" the best for abandoning this program.
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No one is vilifying Isaiah Washington. I genuinely hope he has success elsewhere. However, we can have a discussion about how he performed at the U of MN. That should be completely on the table. There is a bizarre narrative about Washington that he flashed a ton of potential and then didn't get any playing time while Pitino was playing worse players (their examples are usually Hurt and Stull).

I will genuinely be cheering for Washington wherever he goes. I hope he gets a lot of run, gets a degree and has a successful life. However, it is an absolute fabrication that he wasn't given a fair shot here.

Why are people not worried about Still being vilified on here?
 

HOOP DREAMS said:
Wrong. He had unique skills, you can't bench a guy with those types of skills! Forget the fact he shot and drove at the wrong times in the game... threw up bricks and got stuffed a lot. Also, no big deal that his a/to was awful vs. the better teams!
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A coach with his job on the line should continue playing him more.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
A coach with his job on the line should continue playing him more.
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Ok coach! I assume you were at every practice and know exactly how much effort every player put into the team. You obviously know more than the typical GH rube, and the coaches at the U, and all of the coaches that didn’t offer a scholarship coming out of high school, or all the coaches that are not offering as a transfer.


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alchemy2u said:
Ok coach! I assume you were at every practice and know exactly how much effort every player put into the team. You obviously know more than the typical GH rube, and the coaches at the U, and all of the coaches that didn’t offer a scholarship coming out of high school, or all the coaches that are not offering as a transfer.

Did I miss the sarcasm.


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19 pages and running strong! I find it interesting that so few people have acknowledged what is really going on here. His number of Insta (isnt that what the kids call it?) followers and his national recruiting ranking led people to believe he was the second coming of x, y, or z PG. Well, he was a fairly inconsequential player in the grand scheme of Gopher basketball and he's going elsewhere for more opportunity. He really didn't have much more of an impact than a player like Justin Cobbs (only 9 pages of ALL THINGS posts for him). Hardly anyone on here knows the actual potential of IW, yet many posters keep spitballing because they HOPED he would be great, and that hope was fueled by social media and the hype machine. He didn't play because he simply wasn't very good in most games. I recall the Providence game where he teased us a bit with his jump shot, and the Michigan game in which he was outstanding. Outside of that he truly was inconsequential. Players are so transient these days anyway, perhaps people should stop getting so attached to these guys. I get that the purpose of this blog is to provide fans a place to project their wildest hopes and dreams repeatedly to the point that they actually start to believe that everything is going to work out swimmingly. But perhaps we'd all be a bit better off waiting to see what these guys actually accomplish on the court in a Gopher uniform before we crown them. I'm sure I've been guilty of this over the years, but enough seasons of transfers and incoming recruits makes you realize that nobody has any clue what a particular player will bring to the court. Most thought Gabe would be a minutes eater as a freshman. Most thought Stull would get more run than Gabe. Most thought IW would be a four year starter at PG. Videos and rankings do not matter (unless you're top 20-ish, of which we don't get anyone anyway so my point holds true). ESPN had Rodney Williams as the 42nd best recruit in the country, can anyone agree with that assessment with a straight face?

This whole long post because some people have let peripheral information blur reality. The reality is that IW had handles and could get to most places on the floor with ease. However, when he got there good things typically did not follow. Also, he was a minus on D. That all adds up to a player that, apart from a massive social media following and a mistakenly high recruiting ranking, would not be missed much by most people on this blog if reality was the focus.

And all of that being said, who here can pretend to know what is in any of these guys best interests? Let the guys who want to be Gophers be Gophers. If they change their minds... great, they'll probably be erased from my memory within a few months anyway and replaced by other wild hopes and dreams in the form of future player x, y, or z and the carousel can keep spinning.
 

Ignore the rankings. Anyone can do the top 10. After that a coaches idea of fit is far superior to the internet hacks. Those guys are projecting the highest future outcome based on where they see the player in that one moment. Some mid tier power conference teams liked IW and for a few good reasons but several more ran away from his game as fast as possible. Where the program was it was worth the take. Pitino did all he could to find the team fit. Sometimes it does not work out no matter who the coach is. You scout, you do the character check, you try to see the fit and then you develop for the growth and the fit. It is not all on the coach, at some length it falls to the player.
 



GopherHoopsFan said:
19 pages and running strong! I find it interesting that so few people have acknowledged what is really going on here. His number of Insta (isnt that what the kids call it?) followers and his national recruiting ranking led people to believe he was the second coming of x, y, or z PG. Well, he was a fairly inconsequential player in the grand scheme of Gopher basketball and he's going elsewhere for more opportunity. He really didn't have much more of an impact than a player like Justin Cobbs (only 9 pages of ALL THINGS posts for him). Hardly anyone on here knows the actual potential of IW, yet many posters keep spitballing because they HOPED he would be great, and that hope was fueled by social media and the hype machine. He didn't play because he simply wasn't very good in most games. I recall the Providence game where he teased us a bit with his jump shot, and the Michigan game in which he was outstanding. Outside of that he truly was inconsequential. Players are so transient these days anyway, perhaps people should stop getting so attached to these guys. I get that the purpose of this blog is to provide fans a place to project their wildest hopes and dreams repeatedly to the point that they actually start to believe that everything is going to work out swimmingly. But perhaps we'd all be a bit better off waiting to see what these guys actually accomplish on the court in a Gopher uniform before we crown them. I'm sure I've been guilty of this over the years, but enough seasons of transfers and incoming recruits makes you realize that nobody has any clue what a particular player will bring to the court. Most thought Gabe would be a minutes eater as a freshman. Most thought Stull would get more run than Gabe. Most thought IW would be a four year starter at PG. Videos and rankings do not matter (unless you're top 20-ish, of which we don't get anyone anyway so my point holds true). ESPN had Rodney Williams as the 42nd best recruit in the country, can anyone agree with that assessment with a straight face?

This whole long post because some people have let peripheral information blur reality. The reality is that IW had handles and could get to most places on the floor with ease. However, when he got there good things typically did not follow. Also, he was a minus on D. That all adds up to a player that, apart from a massive social media following and a mistakenly high recruiting ranking, would not be missed much by most people on this blog if reality was the focus.

And all of that being said, who here can pretend to know what is in any of these guys best interests? Let the guys who want to be Gophers be Gophers. If they change their minds... great, they'll probably be erased from my memory within a few months anyway and replaced by other wild hopes and dreams in the form of future player x, y, or z and the carousel can keep spinning.
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Not everyone anointed IW as the second coming of anything. Actually, if we did a survey of frequent posters, I bet a majority of us would have taken a "wait and see" approach to him, like most of us do for all recruits. As an old guy, I simply do not count on freshmen to make major contributions mostly because they are freshmen and secondly because I have no ability to anticipate how talent on one level will translate to the next. I, as you indicate, would be one who HOPED he would succeed here, but an undersized point guard in the B1G is no sure fire thing, ever. Most of us knew that. The bubble of ridiculous expectations put on an 18 year-old kid led to a lot of this. Not fair to him. Not fair to the fan base or the coaching staff. By all accounts, he was a good kid who could have pouted and embarrassed the program when it wasn't working out. He didn't. Kudos to him. I do believe he will do well at a lower level of everyday competition.

The challenge I see in this discussion (and others) is that posters with axes to grind can tend to take over the discussion and put them into perpetual circles.
 

Holy Man said:
Not everyone anointed IW as the second coming of anything. Actually, if we did a survey of frequent posters, I bet a majority of us would have taken a "wait and see" approach to him, like most of us do for all recruits. As an old guy, I simply do not count on freshmen to make major contributions mostly because they are freshmen and secondly because I have no ability to anticipate how talent on one level will translate to the next. I, as you indicate, would be one who HOPED he would succeed here, but an undersized point guard in the B1G is no sure fire thing, ever. Most of us knew that. The bubble of ridiculous expectations put on an 18 year-old kid led to a lot of this. Not fair to him. Not fair to the fan base or the coaching staff. By all accounts, he was a good kid who could have pouted and embarrassed the program when it wasn't working out. He didn't. Kudos to him. I do believe he will do well at a lower level of everyday competition.

The challenge I see in this discussion (and others) is that posters with axes to grind can tend to take over the discussion and put them into perpetual circles.
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Well said.
 

Interesting comparison to Justin Cobb. I do believe the Pac 10 (or whatever it's called now) could be a fit for IW. Does the defense even run to the other end of the floor half the time? Might be a good fit. ;) I echo Holy Man's sentiments as well.
 

GopherJake said:
Interesting comparison to Justin Cobb. I do believe the Pac 10 (or whatever it's called now) could be a fit for IW. Does the defense even run to the other end of the floor half the time? Might be a good fit. ;) I echo Holy Man's sentiments as well.
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Cobb looked good here in his limited playing time, imo. I saw him being a good B1G guard, a LOT of Nate Mason in him/a lot of Cobb in Mason.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Cobb looked good here in his limited playing time, imo. I saw him being a good B1G guard, a LOT of Nate Mason in him/a lot of Cobb in Mason.
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Cobbs was one tuff dude. First time I saw him was at the Pro-Am and some vet was trying to push the 18 year old around and he wasn't having any of it.

I agree, his game had some similarities to Nate Mason.
 

Holy Man said:
Not everyone anointed IW as the second coming of anything. Actually, if we did a survey of frequent posters, I bet a majority of us would have taken a "wait and see" approach to him, like most of us do for all recruits. As an old guy, I simply do not count on freshmen to make major contributions mostly because they are freshmen and secondly because I have no ability to anticipate how talent on one level will translate to the next. I, as you indicate, would be one who HOPED he would succeed here, but an undersized point guard in the B1G is no sure fire thing, ever. Most of us knew that. The bubble of ridiculous expectations put on an 18 year-old kid led to a lot of this. Not fair to him. Not fair to the fan base or the coaching staff. By all accounts, he was a good kid who could have pouted and embarrassed the program when it wasn't working out. He didn't. Kudos to him. I do believe he will do well at a lower level of everyday competition.

The challenge I see in this discussion (and others) is that posters with axes to grind can tend to take over the discussion and put them into perpetual circles.
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+1, exactly what I was driving at.
 

Holy Man said:
Not everyone anointed IW as the second coming of anything. Actually, if we did a survey of frequent posters, I bet a majority of us would have taken a "wait and see" approach to him, like most of us do for all recruits. As an old guy, I simply do not count on freshmen to make major contributions mostly because they are freshmen and secondly because I have no ability to anticipate how talent on one level will translate to the next. I, as you indicate, would be one who HOPED he would succeed here, but an undersized point guard in the B1G is no sure fire thing, ever. Most of us knew that. The bubble of ridiculous expectations put on an 18 year-old kid led to a lot of this. Not fair to him. Not fair to the fan base or the coaching staff. By all accounts, he was a good kid who could have pouted and embarrassed the program when it wasn't working out. He didn't. Kudos to him. I do believe he will do well at a lower level of everyday competition.

The challenge I see in this discussion (and others) is that posters with axes to grind can tend to take over the discussion and put them into perpetual circles.
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+1

Perfectly summed up, well said. :clap:
 

So well said Holy man. Social media, youtube has misled a ton of fans into thinking every freshman signed will lead us to the promised land. Seeing them in person looks nothing like a edited highlight film. Most do not come from great coaching and if they do it is noticeable. Like Gabe and Oturu. 75 % of bigs should red shirt. Love the optimistic outlooks but most fans just look at a ranking and a video and think their team will be great. Even transfers. It is very tough to find one that makes a huge contribution.
 

IW has committed to Iona. (per Rothstein’s Twitter)
 

bizzle22 said:
IW has committed to Iona. (per Rothstein’s Twitter)
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I will now switch my username to "The Prophet." [emoji16]
It makes perfect sense for IW to play at Iona. Close to home. Mid-major. A winning program.
Good for Isaiah.
 

I will be cheering for him. I hope he does well.


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Does he need to sit out a year before playing at Iona?
 



howeda7 said:
Yes. But I'm sure he'll apply for a waiver and have a turn on the NCAA Wheel of Random Decisions first.
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