IW

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Otis said:
seems as though IW is a second half of the season type of player!

Maybe it takes 20 games or so to shake off all that pick-up New York style carried over from the summer.

In any case, he looks like he is a dominant handle guy who can ease up the defense.
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He lives in Minnesota during the summer. Why do people assume he is just hanging in New York playing in concrete all the time? He takes classes and works out in a multi-million dollar basketball facility. All. Summer. Probably goes home for a couple weeks but I doubt that he just plays “street ball” all the time. Stop being ignorant.
 

CoMn said:
Totally Agree! IW drives me crazy when he doesn't pass but I thought he was great last night and groaned at a few forced shots by Coffey. No one is perfect and when a person gets tired they become less perfect. When a PGs ration is 4-0 that's a good game.
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A couple times last night he was dribbling and 4 teammates watched him dribble. Didn’t set screens, didn’t move, didn’t work to post up. He can be frustrating but so can McBrayer, Murphy, Coffey, Oturu,Curry, Hurt, Stockman, Gabe, Omersa and Stull. IW is the one fans (and Pitino) love to single out.
 

I'm kinda sick of IW's "bad shots" getting all the focus.

There are plenty of bad shots to go around.
 

Man, he keeps that ball low on the dribble as opposed to DuPree and Amir. Thought he had a good game.
 

gopherhoopsguy said:
The hate for this kid is unbelievable. He rarely turns the ball over at the toughest position on the floor. I will say it again if this team does anything this year it is only because IW is on the floor making plays. U better start cheering this kid on. Tonight he was excellent!
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Maybe some of it is dislike of background or perceived personality but I suspect most of these negative feeling are due to authoritarian thinking perhaps even with Calvinist overtones. If he's benched by the man with authority (who was blessed by God), that must mean that he's unworthy and deserving of that fate.
 



UpAndUnder43 said:
He lives in Minnesota during the summer. Why do people assume he is just hanging in New York playing in concrete all the time? He takes classes and works out in a multi-million dollar basketball facility. All. Summer. Probably goes home for a couple weeks but I doubt that he just plays “street ball” all the time. Stop being ignorant.
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You need to turn up your sarcasm detection dial.
 

Illinois ball pressure required more from IW and he rose to the occasssion.

He doesn't fit every game, and Pitino has picked his spots to use him quite well lately.

He gets too much criticism, but even the announcers zero in on him. His profile has gotten him to this point, probably too much exposure as a recruit for his skill level, and now he's getting too much exposure to his amount of contribution. That ax swings both ways.
 




UpAndUnder43 said:
A couple times last night he was dribbling and 4 teammates watched him dribble. Didn’t set screens, didn’t move, didn’t work to post up. He can be frustrating but so can McBrayer, Murphy, Coffey, Oturu,Curry, Hurt, Stockman, Gabe, Omersa and Stull. IW is the one fans (and Pitino) love to single out.
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I finally heard from Pitino what I have been waiting all season to hear - a little verbal support for IW's process.
Maybe he's been reading Builtbadgers's posts, because he finally remembered to talk about his growth and just being a sophomore. Up until last night, he'd done nothing to address what we all know is a problem - we all interpret players through the lens of our biases.

As cjbfpd commented, lots of people take their cue from the authority of the coach. Lets not pretend there isn't a bias of selfish streetball thug in college basketball. It has been so for a long time, and I am disappointed in Pitino for not being more aware.
And super excited that IW is showing increasing signs of finding his way.
 

brucekaupa said:
I'm kinda sick of IW's "bad shots" getting all the focus.

There are plenty of bad shots to go around.
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Speaking of bad shots, Pitino said something interesting in the post game presser. He talked about McBrayer and Coffey having to take open threes and that they are good enough shooters to make them. He said that it makes no sense that the fear of shooting an open three makes them bull their way into a crowd of defenders in the lane and put up tougher shots. He is exactly right and it has been a concern I have had about this team. There were a few of them last night but shot selection looked better.
 

Perhaps IW at the top of the 1-4 offense with all of the clock-eating dribbling in those second half possessions was at the direction of the coach. Pitino walks right out onto the floor to call out plays. It didn't seem like the other players were running some other play that IW just hijacked with selfish play. Sometimes the reaction of the defense converges on him that leads to a nice dime for a dunk. Sometimes they just keep backing off, so he shoots. And yes, once in awhile he plays hero ball or chucks up a heat check. As others have said, Coffey gets a pass when you can count on 3-5 horrendous, out of control drives to the hoop that are turnovers or such low percentage shots they are effectively turnovers. We also tolerate Murphy dribbling in the lane until a guard digs down to steal the ball or he takes it up against 3 guys taller than him. IW isn't making the same mistakes he made last year. He's improving. Enjoy the ride.
 

bga1 said:
Speaking of bad shots, Pitino said something interesting in the post game presser. He talked about McBrayer and Coffey having to take open threes and that they are good enough shooters to make them. He said that it makes no sense that the fear of shooting an open three makes them bull their way into a crowd of defenders in the lane and put up tougher shots. He is exactly right and it has been a concern I have had about this team. There were a few of them last night but shot selection looked better.
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A non-contested shot is always better than a highly contested shot! - This has been true since Naismith first hung that apple basket on the wall of the gym.

Personally, I probably made 20% of my uncontested shots and over 60% of the contested ones. - there are always exceptions to the rule.
 



bga1 said:
Speaking of bad shots, Pitino said something interesting in the post game presser. He talked about McBrayer and Coffey having to take open threes and that they are good enough shooters to make them. He said that it makes no sense that the fear of shooting an open three makes them bull their way into a crowd of defenders in the lane and put up tougher shots. He is exactly right and it has been a concern I have had about this team. There were a few of them last night but shot selection looked better.
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Now if we want to talk bad shots... Honestly, McBrayer's form is awful. But that's nothing new. And what was with Amir's crummy airball 3 while falling to the floor with 20 seconds left on the shot clock. And Murphy sometimes seems to just throw it at the basket hoping it'll go in.
 



Rouser said:
I tend to agree. He has made some dumb plays before but in general, he can do things that nobody on the roster can do. He can break down his defender which draws the middle into him, freeing up others and he has made some terrific passes in that situation of late (versus forcing ridiculous layup attempts earlier in year or last season). The last couple of game, his jumper is falling which is a bonus. We will need him if we want to go far.. in some capacity.
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My 2 cents-- I think IW's thought that he had to force layup or shot attempts last year was related as much to who was catching (or not) the pass as it was to his shot attempt. Bakary and Gas are great guys, but they are not good ball catchers. And if they would catch it, that didn't necessarily mean they could score. So last year most of IW's reps in practice were probably with those 2, not Jordan. This year he has 3 guys that can catch and finish whatever he throws them.

if we are going to nit-pick turnovers last night- Dupree's in the first half where he caught a bad pass from someone and then threw it towards the back court and Illinois ended up with a lay-up was worse. Throw it out of bounds so you can at least go play defense.
 

Coffey had some outrageous looking turnovers - and he led the team in scoring becasue he has some outrageous looking makes.

Pitino stated Washington was the only one who could really create his own shot - so we'll have to live with him learning when to do that and when not. His assists to Murphy last night were truly a thing of beauty.
 

Every time IW shoots, I hear moans from people around me and see a slight look of horror on Pitino's face.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Some people expect him to play 50 possessions without a mistake, but don’t expect that from anyone else.

I rarely see people question Coffey who had a few abysmal possessions tonight. Or Murphy who always has a few terrible turnovers. Why do we expect Washington to be perfect and criticize him when he isn’t but don’t expect that from juniors and seniors? Makes no sense to me.
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Agreed. Coffey had at least 3 passes that turned in to TOs that mad me say “WTF?”

IW provided the difference in the second half, but people are always going to find something wrong in his game.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Keyser Söze said:
He had a couple bad shots, but overall played very well. Our offense looks better with him in there and we went on that big run in the second half largely thanks to IW.
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Agreed. As always, the issue in consistency. The odds are more likely than not, that next game we'll see the bad IW, rather than building on what we saw tonight. The truth is, he's still really raw. We need him to continue figuring it out, but until he does, there will be games when he sits due to bad decisions or plays little, due to match-ups that don't favor him.
 

Murphy fast break 1 on 3. Was out of position for a layup, so rather than just hold it and let the offense set up, he throws up a prayer falling-away awkward layup which clanks and is easily rebounded by the other team since there were no Gophers around.
 

goldenboy said:
Perhaps IW at the top of the 1-4 offense with all of the clock-eating dribbling in those second half possessions was at the direction of the coach. Pitino walks right out onto the floor to call out plays. It didn't seem like the other players were running some other play that IW just hijacked with selfish play.
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+ 10 Million

This was obviously the case last night. I heard about 3 guys around me just tearing IW apart - after sitting there watching him LEAD to a 16+ point lead with all different kinds of good play. Pitino was about 20 feet from IW’s ears. This was the call. And a good one.
 

GopherJake said:
+ 10 Million

This was obviously the case last night. I heard about 3 guys around me just tearing IW apart - after sitting there watching him LEAD to a 16+ point lead with all different kinds of good play. Pitino was about 20 feet from IW’s ears. This was the call. And a good one.
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If people tire of me supporting IW, it's because I have been sitting through this crap at the games all year. He makes a fabulous shot? Hotdog.
One guy actually complained, "I b!tched about him all through dinner and then he goes and plays like THIS?" I actually turned around and said, gee you sound disappointed. 'Well no, but...' he said...but just like Costa Rican above he has to keep to his assessment of IW in the face of evidence to the contrary and he actually IS disappointed to be something people hate to be: WRONG
 

Great game by IW! Let's also think about how Illinois plays with the pressure defense and uptempo. This is the perfect type of game for IW. He can handle the pressure and get by people creating for his team.

When we play the wisconsins, Purdue's, Michigan St's, it will be more of a half court game and he will probably look not as good.

I hope he improves, but I think the B1G is not ideal for him. Pac 12, Big 12, high scoring, low defense leagues would probably be better.
 

march madness said:
I hope he improves, but I think the B1G is not ideal for him. Pac 12, Big 12, high scoring, low defense leagues would probably be better.
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I disagree, I think he is perfect for the big ten, Frazier looks more like a PAC 12 guard, high speed, small frame. IW isn't the fastest guy in the world but does a great job using his own body to create the space he needs to ball handle, he's strong, great body control and understands defenders have to bite on moves that are towards the basket so you can almost always generate space to shoot by going in that direction then stepping back. He's just not fast enough to consistently fool guys and get an open run at the rim, as long as he plays within himself like he did last night he should see lots of playing time.

We really need him to be a contributor on this team, our days of throwing cross court rainbow lob passes to get out of pressure are numbered.
 

march madness said:
I think the B1G is not ideal for him. Pac 12, Big 12, high scoring, low defense leagues would probably be better.
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I love statements like that because it calls for data crunching.

PPG by league this season:
Big Ten: 73.71429
Big 12: 73.00000
Pac 12: 74.66667
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Man, he keeps that ball low on the dribble as opposed to DuPree and Amir. Thought he had a good game.
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I'm usually pretty critical of him but I agree on this, he's a hell of a ball handler. Only guy I feel confident in bringing the ball up the court.
 

march madness said:
Great game by IW! Let's also think about how Illinois plays with the pressure defense and uptempo. This is the perfect type of game for IW. He can handle the pressure and get by people creating for his team.

When we play the wisconsins, Purdue's, Michigan St's, it will be more of a half court game and he will probably look not as good.

I hope he improves, but I think the B1G is not ideal for him. Pac 12, Big 12, high scoring, low defense leagues would probably be better.
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He's a sophomore. He can still be a VERY good player in this league. Need to see more of last night, but progress is being made. Pitino is going a good job with him IMO.
 

bga1 said:
He's a sophomore. He can still be a VERY good player in this league. Need to see more of last night, but progress is being made. Pitino is going a good job with him IMO.
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Listening to Pitino last night, I think its a process for Pitino as well. He discussed his adjustment in coaching for last night's game in terms of motion offense (which Murphy also referenced in his interview). As Washington improves, Pitino can adjust the offense in a way that better suits IW's skills, and so on.
 

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