IW

[UpAndUnder43]

He does have some issues defensively but so does everyone. Coffey lost Cline at least twice for wide open threes. Not a guy you can lose defensively.

McBrayer did so little on both ends of the court it was a net negative. However, here we are, talking about IW. This thread is tired and old. Until we see threads about other guys being terrible or great (Murphy, McBrayer, Gabe) this thread makes no sense.

 

[builtbadgers]

He does have some issues defensively but so does everyone. Coffey lost Cline at least twice for wide open threes. Not a guy you can lose defensively.

McBrayer did so little on both ends of the court it was a net negative. However, here we are, talking about IW. This thread is tired and old. Until we see threads about other guys being terrible or great (Murphy, McBrayer, Gabe) this thread makes no sense.

Except it is a post about IW. He gets a lot of attention for better or worse that he brought on himself. I put that aside to comment exactly on how i would grade anyone. Gabe is my favorite player but i grade him with the same rigorous standard.

 

[Gopherbbdude]

As soon as Edwards was assigned to defend him, IW was done. not a rip on IW, just saying how good Edwards is.

 

[BarnBurner]

Except it is a post about IW. He gets a lot of attention for better or worse that he brought on himself. I put that aside to comment exactly on how i would grade anyone. Gabe is my favorite player but i grade him with the same rigorous standard.

Yet harsh words for Gabe or nearly every other player are darn near extinct from badger.

Brought it on himself. Brought exactly what on himself?

 

[Angrygopher1]

He was playing well until he missed the front end of the 1 and 1 and then he was completely rattled mentally. That isn't unique to him as basically just about everyone else on our team was terrified the instant Purdue got some momentum rolling but Isaiah was noticeably shook from that point on.

I was at the game, I heard the crowd and saw the Purdue momentum rise and think the main problem was, Patino did not take a time out early enough. If the first time out does not work take a second one, a 20-2 run is rediculus! That is a game we could have won, the crowd was totally out of it and sitting on their hands when we were up by 13.

 

[BballJones]

Except it is a post about IW. He gets a lot of attention for better or worse that he brought on himself. I put that aside to comment exactly on how i would grade anyone. Gabe is my favorite player but i grade him with the same rigorous standard.

Brought it on himself? Not sure I completely agree with that. I think Gopher fans were expecting him to be great and put that on him.

 

[bga1]

I was at the game, I heard the crowd and saw the Purdue momentum rise and think the main problem was, Patino did not take a time out early enough. If the first time out does not work take a second one, a 20-2 run is rediculus! That is a game we could have won, the crowd was totally out of it and sitting on their hands when we were up by 13.

13:46 Matt Haarms made Layup. Assisted by Carsen Edwards. 47 - 36
13:31 Foul on Carsen Edwards. 47 - 36
13:15 Foul on Eric Hunter Jr.. 47 - 36
13:15 Isaiah Washington missed Free Throw. 47 - 36
13:15 Matt Haarms Defensive Rebound. 47 - 36
13:00 Carsen Edwards made Three Point Jumper. 47 - 39
play
12:52 Minnesota Timeout 47 - 39

Then a minute later...TV timeout.

Then three minutes later - Purdue now ahead 52-49- another Pitino time out. Three time outs during the 18-2 run.

 

[builtbadgers]

Yet harsh words for Gabe or nearly every other player are darn near extinct from badger.

Brought it on himself. Brought exactly what on himself?

Start a thread on any player or coach and i will praise or grade where i see fit. There are threads on Pitino and i share both good and bad that i see, my opinion. I have always made a point of saying IW is only in his 2nd year. He came in super hyped by fans and there were reasons dozens of coaches did not want him. I am glad he is here and hope he works hard and improves.

 

[bga1]

Kamala Harris ????

LOL! I bet that everything that coffee shop offers is gluten free or vegan.

 

[builtbadgers]

Brought it on himself? Not sure I completely agree with that. I think Gopher fans were expecting him to be great and put that on him.

Should have said brought on partially on himself. The hype of Jelly Fam is pure garbage as it does not translate to great basketball at this level. At this level your far better off working on fundamentals, soundness. All the guys participating in it are completely entitled to have fun and do it but with it comes attention from a ton of people that think that means your a great player. Coaches own dad hates that stuff. I do not hate it as i do think the game in all its forms should be fun but it is self promotion and there comes extra attention. Did not mean to imply he brought it all on himself but he did play a role in it.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Should have said brought on partially on himself. The hype of Jelly Fam is pure garbage as it does not translate to great basketball at this level. At this level your far better off working on fundamentals, soundness. All the guys participating in it are completely entitled to have fun and do it but with it comes attention from a ton of people that think that means your a great player. Coaches own dad hates that stuff. I do not hate it as i do think the game in all its forms should be fun but it is self promotion and there comes extra attention. Did not mean to imply he brought it all on himself but he did play a role in it.

So its his fault he is doing good in his community, started a movement and got popular online. He didn't tell people he was amazing. He was a top 50ish recruit by the services. Unlike some local talent, his dad doesn't produce the videos that we all watch on youtube nor does he run a top level AAU program. Hopefully you're in tune enough to know who I'm talking about in these instances.

You love Gabe, which is fine. Gabe has had many bad bad bad moments this year but you're awfully silent on those.

 

[builtbadgers]

So its his fault he is doing good in his community, started a movement and got popular online. He didn't tell people he was amazing. He was a top 50ish recruit by the services. Unlike some local talent, his dad doesn't produce the videos that we all watch on youtube nor does he run a top level AAU program. Hopefully you're in tune enough to know who I'm talking about in these instances.

You love Gabe, which is fine. Gabe has had many bad bad bad moments this year but you're awfully silent on those.

I did not say it is his fault and that i do like the fun and the good that comes from it and what he does. But it does come with unintended consequences. He came with holes in his game , like nearly every freshman that some fans did not see because of what they saw on videos. Not his fault but how social media is used has plusses and minuses. Of course i know who your talking about. That one is on coach for not making it clear that a parent gets zero input on team basketball decisions. Think that got straight two weeks ago. As for Gabe, he is a freshman that does make mistakes, all players do but his game is sound and that is music to a coach. I broke him down in early season threads when people were thinking he was Voshon Leonard after seeing him in mostly very weak non con games. Big 10 coaches have him scouted a whole lot better and i still think he has held up pretty well. Iam very biased towards smart, sound team players. Those are things Gabe is and that i think IW can be.

 

[Angrygopher1]

13:46 Matt Haarms made Layup. Assisted by Carsen Edwards. 47 - 36
13:31 Foul on Carsen Edwards. 47 - 36
13:15 Foul on Eric Hunter Jr.. 47 - 36
13:15 Isaiah Washington missed Free Throw. 47 - 36
13:15 Matt Haarms Defensive Rebound. 47 - 36
13:00 Carsen Edwards made Three Point Jumper. 47 - 39
play
12:52 Minnesota Timeout 47 - 39

Then a minute later...TV timeout.

Then three minutes later - Purdue now ahead 52-49- another Pitino time out. Three time outs during the 18-2 run.

I must be thinking about the 3 minute stretch when they went form up 8 to down 3. The crowd was crazy, could not even talk to each other! Being there I did not have ability to look at the replay like you.

 

[BarnBurner]

I did not say it is his fault and that i do like the fun and the good that comes from it and what he does. But it does come with unintended consequences. He came with holes in his game , like nearly every freshman that some fans did not see because of what they saw on videos. Not his fault but how social media is used has plusses and minuses. Of course i know who your talking about. That one is on coach for not making it clear that a parent gets zero input on team basketball decisions. Think that got straight two weeks ago. As for Gabe, he is a freshman that does make mistakes, all players do but his game is sound and that is music to a coach. I broke him down in early season threads when people were thinking he was Voshon Leonard after seeing him in mostly very weak non con games. Big 10 coaches have him scouted a whole lot better and i still think he has held up pretty well. Iam very biased towards smart, sound team players. Those are things Gabe is and that i think IW can be.

"He gets a lot of attention for better or worse that he brought on himself. "

Your truck is in reverse, going at a high rate of speed.

 

[builtbadgers]

"He gets a lot of attention for better or worse that he brought on himself. "

Your truck is in reverse, going at a high rate of speed.

Not at all. Iam clarifying that it is not all his fault but he does play a role in it.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

I did not say it is his fault and that i do like the fun and the good that comes from it and what he does. But it does come with unintended consequences. He came with holes in his game , like nearly every freshman that some fans did not see because of what they saw on videos. Not his fault but how social media is used has plusses and minuses. Of course i know who your talking about. That one is on coach for not making it clear that a parent gets zero input on team basketball decisions. Think that got straight two weeks ago. As for Gabe, he is a freshman that does make mistakes, all players do but his game is sound and that is music to a coach. I broke him down in early season threads when people were thinking he was Voshon Leonard after seeing him in mostly very weak non con games. Big 10 coaches have him scouted a whole lot better and i still think he has held up pretty well. Iam very biased towards smart, sound team players. Those are things Gabe is and that i think IW can be.

Fair response. I just find it funny how much focus there is on this site about the holes in IWs game and we ignore gaping holes in the games of other players on this team. Guys that have been here for 3 or 4 years still have holes larger than anything I see in IWs game.

Coffey's inability to dribble with his right hand or his tendency to go 1 on 4 in transition/take really forced (bad) shots.
Murphy's inability to pass out of a double team or show any ability to score outside of 4ft
McBrayer's inability to play basketball well on a consistent basis.
Hurt's inability to do anything well.

The list goes on because these 4 are notable because of their time spent in the program. Maybe its a coaching thing?

Because Washington has a large social media following, people expected him to be Zion without ever thinking. That isn't his fault. I can't blame Isaiah Washington for people being stupid. Stupid people are stupid all on their own. He is a bright kid with a bright future on the court and off the court. Apparently whatever he knows about marketing is greater than what the Gophers know because he has a much larger social media following than all Gopher sports teams combined (I think, too lazy to check ALL the teams)

 

[BarnBurner]

Not at all. Iam clarifying that it is not all his fault but he does play a role in it.

mmmm k

 

[bga1]

Fair response. I just find it funny how much focus there is on this site about the holes in IWs game and we ignore gaping holes in the games of other players on this team. Guys that have been here for 3 or 4 years still have holes larger than anything I see in IWs game.

Coffey's inability to dribble with his right hand or his tendency to go 1 on 4 in transition/take really forced (bad) shots.
Murphy's inability to pass out of a double team or show any ability to score outside of 4ft
McBrayer's inability to play basketball well on a consistent basis.
Hurt's inability to do anything well.

The list goes on because these 4 are notable because of their time spent in the program. Maybe its a coaching thing?

Because Washington has a large social media following, people expected him to be Zion without ever thinking. That isn't his fault. I can't blame Isaiah Washington for people being stupid. Stupid people are stupid all on their own. He is a bright kid with a bright future on the court and off the court. Apparently whatever he knows about marketing is greater than what the Gophers know because he has a much larger social media following than all Gopher sports teams combined (I think, too lazy to check ALL the teams)

It's shameful what Pitino has done to Coffey and Murphy. I have heard rumors that he specifically has asked Murphy to not learn to shoot and in practice he has Coffey's right hand tied behind his back. Meanwhile, Oturu seems to be extending his shooting range, is fouling less and making better post moves...he must not listen.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

It's shameful what Pitino has done to Coffey and Murphy. I have heard rumors that he specifically has asked Murphy to not learn to shoot and in practice he has Coffey's right hand tied behind his back. Meanwhile, Oturu seems to be extending his shooting range, is fouling less and making better post moves...he must not listen.

Pitino can't even teach his kid to go potty before the game.

Coffey is actually not a terrible right-handed dribbler, and his acrobatic finishes at the rim have a pretty decent success rate, probably greater than our average points per possession.

 

[bga1]

Pitino can't even teach his kid to go potty before the game.

Coffey is actually not a terrible right-handed dribbler, and his acrobatic finishes at the rim have a pretty decent success rate, probably greater than our average points per possession.

IMO- If Coffey can become a 38-40% 3 point shooter next year, continue to improve his handle and his decision making, he can play in the NBA. He's been a great player here and can still get better. He's fearless, but needs to rebound better as well. He is another guy who will actually flourish with Murphy gone (I love Murphy mind you) because he should be able to post up his opposing guard in mismatches. Right now the paint is for Murphy on this team, he is not threat outside 5 feet.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

It's shameful what Pitino has done to Coffey and Murphy. I have heard rumors that he specifically has asked Murphy to not learn to shoot and in practice he has Coffey's right hand tied behind his back. Meanwhile, Oturu seems to be extending his shooting range, is fouling less and making better post moves...he must not listen.

Thats not what I'm saying at all. Overall development is different than learning skills. I think Murphy's lack of shooting is probably due in part to his wonky ass release/form but he should be better at it.

FWIW, I think Pitino is a good coach. Might not win a lot here but I wouldn't be shocked to see him win a lot here (or elsewhere, if Coyle decides to move on)

 

[bga1]

Thats not what I'm saying at all. Overall development is different than learning skills. I think Murphy's lack of shooting is probably due in part to his wonky ass release/form but he should be better at it.

FWIW, I think Pitino is a good coach. Might not win a lot here but I wouldn't be shocked to see him win a lot here (or elsewhere, if Coyle decides to move on)

I cannot recall ever seeing Murphy shoot an actual jump shot. He does have that set shot with the low release. I have no idea why he can't develop a real jumper, releasing at the top of his jump. It's like a golfer with a bad swing who can't be convinced to change his swing.

 

[GopherJack]

I cannot recall ever seeing Murphy shoot an actual jump shot. He does have that set shot with the low release. I have no idea why he can't develop a real jumper, releasing at the top of his jump. It's like a golfer with a bad swing who can't be convinced to change his swing.

For those of you that actually attend games, does Murphy have a jump shot that you see him taking in warm-ups? It would be interesting to see what his warm-up routine is and how his shots look there. As noted earlier, I don't think we ever really see him take a 15 base line jump shot or a shot from the elbow.

 

[builtbadgers]

Fair response. I just find it funny how much focus there is on this site about the holes in IWs game and we ignore gaping holes in the games of other players on this team. Guys that have been here for 3 or 4 years still have holes larger than anything I see in IWs game.

Coffey's inability to dribble with his right hand or his tendency to go 1 on 4 in transition/take really forced (bad) shots.
Murphy's inability to pass out of a double team or show any ability to score outside of 4ft
McBrayer's inability to play basketball well on a consistent basis.
Hurt's inability to do anything well.

The list goes on because these 4 are notable because of their time spent in the program. Maybe its a coaching thing?

Because Washington has a large social media following, people expected him to be Zion without ever thinking. That isn't his fault. I can't blame Isaiah Washington for people being stupid. Stupid people are stupid all on their own. He is a bright kid with a bright future on the court and off the court. Apparently whatever he knows about marketing is greater than what the Gophers know because he has a much larger social media following than all Gopher sports teams combined (I think, too lazy to check ALL the teams)

The thing that stands out to me about coffee are his low 3 point shooting and his average defense. With all that length and a high basketball IQ he should be one of the nations best defenders.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

For those of you that actually attend games, does Murphy have a jump shot that you see him taking in warm-ups? It would be interesting to see what his warm-up routine is and how his shots look there. As noted earlier, I don't think we ever really see him take a 15 base line jump shot or a shot from the elbow.

His warmups do not involve doing much besides stretching and dunking. Since this was asked I'll try to watch for it on Wednesday. My wife is gone for work so I'm bringing a friend (amazingly, his first time @ The Barn, despite his uncle being a very famous Gopher athlete) and may be a few beers in and less committed to watching warmups.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

The thing that stands out to me about coffee are his low 3 point shooting and his average defense. With all that length and a high basketball IQ he should be one of the nations best defenders.

Someone might attempt to murder you through your screen. Haven't you heard that Coffey is an amazing defender?

IW gets lost on D but he plays well when guarding the ball. Coffey, in my opinion, gets beat a lot and doesn't cause the issues his aforementioned length should.

 

[builtbadgers]

Someone might attempt to murder you through your screen. Haven't you heard that Coffey is an amazing defender?

IW gets lost on D but he plays well when guarding the ball. Coffey, in my opinion, gets beat a lot and doesn't cause the issues his aforementioned length should.

Totally fine , they can have their opinion. When going through the tape possession by possession and grading him it comes out average. Not afraid to criticize a player i really like. He will actually get votes for all defensive
team because he makes some highlight plays and has had big D games at UW and at Michigan but play in and play out he is not as good as he should be.

 

[Holf]

Fair response. I just find it funny how much focus there is on this site about the holes in IWs game and we ignore gaping holes in the games of other players on this team. Guys that have been here for 3 or 4 years still have holes larger than anything I see in IWs game.

Coffey's inability to dribble with his right hand or his tendency to go 1 on 4 in transition/take really forced (bad) shots.
Murphy's inability to pass out of a double team or show any ability to score outside of 4ft
McBrayer's inability to play basketball well on a consistent basis.
Hurt's inability to do anything well.

The list goes on because these 4 are notable because of their time spent in the program. Maybe its a coaching thing?

Because Washington has a large social media following, people expected him to be Zion without ever thinking. That isn't his fault. I can't blame Isaiah Washington for people being stupid. Stupid people are stupid all on their own. He is a bright kid with a bright future on the court and off the court. Apparently whatever he knows about marketing is greater than what the Gophers know because he has a much larger social media following than all Gopher sports teams combined (I think, too lazy to check ALL the teams)

Agreed. Isaiah's mistakes are magnified because he's a flashy player. He's the whipping boy on this team. All there is to it. Murphy played an absolutely horrible game against Purdue - 3 charging fouls... if you count those as TOs he had what 5/6? - what would be reaction if IW had 5/6 TOs in a game? Isaiah has limitations just like Murphy (can't shoot, reacts slowly to doubles, etc), Coffey (can't penetrate past perimeter defenders 1 on 1, can take wild shots at times, etc). Isaiah's limitations are off-ball defense, over-dribbling, questionable decision making (especially when challenged). No one can tell me he is held to same standard when he makes a mistake as the others mentioned.

You don't know if Pitino is hard on him because he sees the potential and he's not living up to it, or he's unable to effectively communicate with him and simply boils over out of frustration. Presumably it's a mixture with a tendency toward the latter. And that's on Pitino. When Isaiah is clicking he makes a massive impact. A great coach would do what was necessary to communicate properly and pull our consistent performance from him. And at the very least not hold him to a ridiculous double-standard not applied to others.

 

[diehard]

IW is never going to live up to his hype. The disappointment results from the overhype he received coming in. He won't be able to compete against Carr for time in a B1G system of play next year either. A career backup PG.

 

[Gold Vision]

IW is never going to live up to his hype. The disappointment results from the overhype he received coming in. He won't be able to compete against Carr for time in a B1G system of play next year either. A career backup PG.

Carr isn’t a PG. There will be plenty of minutes for both with McBrayer leaving. IW is coming along nicely, if he sticks with it, he’s poised for a couple big years.