Iverson and Joseph are our weakest links in regular rotation

[GopherRube]

Iverson hasn't impressed me in the least. He is so slow when he gets the ball, which was especially evident in the Purdue game. Every time he'd get the ball thrown to him he'd get it stolen, or he'd throw up some shot without looking or aiming. I swear every basket he gets is by pure luck because it is just thrown up without any finesse. Then, when he gets fouled you can always count on 0-1 points every single time. I still can't get over how poor his free throw shooting is, it's horrendous!

 

[bga1]

Iverson hasn't impressed me in the least. He is so slow when he gets the ball, which was especially evident in the Purdue game. Every time he'd get the ball thrown to him he'd get it stolen, or he'd throw up some shot without looking or aiming. I swear every basket he gets is by pure luck because it is just thrown up without any finesse. Then, when he gets fouled you can always count on 0-1 points every single time. I still can't get over how poor his free throw shooting is, it's horrendous!

Iverson has the heart of a lion, the height of a giant and the hand eye coordination of a tax accountant. However, sometimes big guys like him are late getting the whole package together. I would recommend he watch some old Jeff Hagen films of when Hagen was a senior. Hagen learned how to slow down and use creative moves and power in the post to combat average athleticism and become a very, very productive player. Iverson could be as good or better IMO.

 

[Flash23]

Iverson has the heart of a lion, the height of a giant and the hand eye coordination of a tax accountant. However, sometimes big guys like him are late getting the whole package together. I would recommend he watch some old Jeff Hagen films of when Hagen was a senior. Hagen learned how to slow down and use creative moves and power in the post to combat average athleticism and become a very, very productive player. Iverson could be as good or better IMO.

Height in Iverson's case doesn't matter because he has a 2 inch vertical.

 

[leftyslefty]

Iverson had 9.......

rebounds in 22 minutes. He rebounds better than Ralph.....Colt is no ballerina, but will make money at this game if he learns to finish in close.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

"I think Iverson can be an asset, he has a bigger upside than Ralph who will always be a soft player."

No way. Iverson is ok and sould get better as he continues to grow into that body, but he'll never get past a certain level of play due to his lack of high-end athleticism. Sampson has the height, agility and hops to play in the NBA if he continues to progress. Also, I think some players just look soft or lazy on the court because they sort of glide around. Lawrence Moten was one I always think of who was on it but looked like he was on cruise control.

 

[What Up Guy]

Couldn't disagree more-- Iverson is and will be a key player. He is athletic, has good feet...he just needs to play a little more in control and he will be fine. Devoe Joe is a good shooter and will be a great shooter by the time he leaves here. I love his aggressiveness, he picks his spots better than Westbrook. Both guys are slumping a little but they will be fine.

 

[98VQueens]

Devoe Joe is a good shooter and will be a great shooter by the time he leaves here.

Why have I heard this same line by multiple people and why will he become a great shooter over the next two years? I see him as more of a Michael Bauer.

 

[Reserve]

Iverson has the heart of a lion, the height of a giant and the hand eye coordination of a tax accountant.

Lol!

I know Iverson has things to work on. I would be happy if he just didn't make those, how to say it, bailout passes he has to make occasionally. You know the ones. Where it looks like he's in a rec ball game and oh so slowly tries to pass the ball when he picks up his dribble and gets in trouble. It's a turnover every friggin' time. Drives me nuts!!!

 

[Mulligan]

Iverson has the heart of a lion, the height of a giant and the hand eye coordination of a tax accountant. However, sometimes big guys like him are late getting the whole package together. I would recommend he watch some old Jeff Hagen films of when Hagen was a senior. Hagen learned how to slow down and use creative moves and power in the post to combat average athleticism and become a very, very productive player. Iverson could be as good or better IMO.

Agree. Trevor Winter is another player he reminds me of. Colt is only a sophomore for cripes sake, but some people are already convinced of his low ceiling. He's the only size we had in there. It's a lot harder when you're battling in there by yourself. A lot of our better teams had several big men: Winter was with John Thomas and Courtney James. Chad Kolander and Randy Carter played together. Jim Shikenjanski had Richard Coffey with him who certainly played big. Ralph is tall but he's also young and isn't really a down low player. I think Iverson is going to continue to improve and will really take a jump when he has a hard hat partner down there with him.

 

[underground629]

I don't think Sampson is that athletic or agile.

"I think Iverson can be an asset, he has a bigger upside than Ralph who will always be a soft player."

No way. Iverson is ok and sould get better as he continues to grow into that body, but he'll never get past a certain level of play due to his lack of high-end athleticism. Sampson has the height, agility and hops to play in the NBA if he continues to progress. Also, I think some players just look soft or lazy on the court because they sort of glide around. Lawrence Moten was one I always think of who was on it but looked like he was on cruise control.

 

[underground629]

Iverson is athletic?? I guess compared to the nation as a whole... What does having good feet mean? Devoe really is not a very good shooter. He doesn't have great form, he doesn't have a quick release, he doesn't have a good shot selection, he has a flat shot, and he's a volume shooter. Why will he be a great shooter by the time he leaves? I don't think he really picks his spots better than Westbrook. Westbrook may force shots but he can actually make a decent amount of them. Look up their shooting percentages. Also, Westbrook at least drives a good amount when he forces up shots so there's a chance of him getting fouled. Devoe decided he's going to take a long jump shot without any ball movement and he rarely makes it.

Couldn't disagree more-- Iverson is and will be a key player. He is athletic, has good feet...he just needs to play a little more in control and he will be fine. Devoe Joe is a good shooter and will be a great shooter by the time he leaves here. I love his aggressiveness, he picks his spots better than Westbrook. Both guys are slumping a little but they will be fine.

 

[sec105]

Does anyone not remember the two Wisconsin games last year! We lose both if not for Westbrook.
He is our go to guy. I have no trouble at all with him taking two threes in a row or driving to the basket (nobody else will drive to the basket from the guard spot).

As for Devoe, he will be just fine thank you. He has the ability to create his own shot unlike Hoff, He has the touch we need around the basket unlike Nolen and he can find the open man. He just needs more confidence. He seems scared to shoot for fear he will miss and be pulled. He just has to start making his shots (remember Hoffarber last year).

Iverson needs to get some touch. If he doesn't he will never be anything more than he is. Vs. Bradley he had touch and got a double double otherwise it turns into a wasted possession.

 

[What Up Guy]

Iverson is athletic?? I guess compared to the nation as a whole... What does having good feet mean? Devoe really is not a very good shooter. He doesn't have great form, he doesn't have a quick release, he doesn't have a good shot selection, he has a flat shot, and he's a volume shooter. Why will he be a great shooter by the time he leaves? I don't think he really picks his spots better than Westbrook. Westbrook may force shots but he can actually make a decent amount of them. Look up their shooting percentages. Also, Westbrook at least drives a good amount when he forces up shots so there's a chance of him getting fouled. Devoe decided he's going to take a long jump shot without any ball movement and he rarely makes it.

Iverson can move well for a big man, he is athletic. He is not just some tall oaf like most make him out to be. "Having good feet" means that his footwork in the post is, well, good. He only has a few moves with his back to the basket, a decent drop step, a little up and under and a hook shot. His problem is that he rushes when he makes a nice move in the post, he bricks the shot too often. He just needs to play with more control and confidence. He is only a sophomore, so he is inconsistent. Look at the games he played in California. Double-doubles in the first half.

Devoe is a scorer. He will put up a lot of shots, but 90% of them are great looks. He can handle the ball fairly well and can score in transition. The shots will start falling from the outside...when that happens, look out.

I think you need to remember these guys are still developing and players go through ups and downs in their careers. Look at Blake. The guy was absolutely torn to shreds on GH last year, now he has found his confidence and is really stroking it. Sophomore slump, or whatever you want to call it, might be a factor...but I think this is just a natural up and down for Iverson/Joseph. I'm not worried at all, both are very key this year and especially into the future.

They are my #1 and #2 guys I like to see come off the bench.

 

[woohoo]

Considering all the novels in this thread, it seems that there are a lot of gophers fans that feel very strongly about these two players. I do too. Neither of them have developed (thus far) like we would have hoped. Colton is a big body that can body up against the likes of B10 big men, but to be successful in the B10 he needs to learn to hold onto the ball. Other teams know that he has a soft grip and they have definitely been exploiting it. As aggressively as he uses his body on D - he seems to shy away from contact to the basket on offense.

The times I really like to watch him play is when he gets pissed, but more often then not he seems uncomfortable on offense. I wish Mr. Westbrook could spread his vast confidence to other players.

 

[lakesgopher]

Except for one game and a half this year, Iverson has stunk. He has ugly shot, can't hit free throws and doesn't protect ball when rebounding and shooting. He kills offensive momentum. His lack of athleticism can't be helped, but someone should teach him to protect ball better rebounding and use a higher release shooting. Hopefully, we get Royce and Trevor next year or Eliason shines next year so Colton can be limited to being a bench banger but not someone that needs to be counted on.

Considering the hype of Devoe Joseph, I am surprised how little he's improved from last year. He is not a very good shooter and doesn't contribute alot in other areas. He also is turnover prone. He is not ready to fill Westbrook's shoes. I hope he improves alot next year or at least helps us land Cory, but I sure hope Austin Hollins can shoot well so we aren't dependent on Devoe. Right now, Rodney and Blake would be better options at the 2.

i think devoe is a little handicapped due to the lack of any identity in the half court set. it really feels like we have gotten very weak when we get into the halfcourt. Iverson really isn't much more than a banger with very little to give on offense when we get the ball to him in the post!

 

[Dr.Don]

Posters...Never played at the level these guys are, but always the experts.

 

[BrewsterBooster]

Pretty Much Agree

Except for one game and a half this year, Iverson has stunk. He has ugly shot, can't hit free throws and doesn't protect ball when rebounding and shooting. He kills offensive momentum. His lack of athleticism can't be helped, but someone should teach him to protect ball better rebounding and use a higher release shooting. Hopefully, we get Royce and Trevor next year or Eliason shines next year so Colton can be limited to being a bench banger but not someone that needs to be counted on.

Considering the hype of Devoe Joseph, I am surprised how little he's improved from last year. He is not a very good shooter and doesn't contribute alot in other areas. He also is turnover prone. He is not ready to fill Westbrook's shoes. I hope he improves alot next year or at least helps us land Cory, but I sure hope Austin Hollins can shoot well so we aren't dependent on Devoe. Right now, Rodney and Blake would be better options at the 2.

Pretty much agree. However, Colton is a big guy who may develop late. Devoe seems to have a crisis of confidence and getting into the flow of the game. I think they will both get better. How much better depends on their heads and work ethic.

 

[ruppertflywheel]

And you sir

I was thinking the same thing. You may add Westbrook to that list too. While watching a game you can predict when Westbrook is going to take an ill advised shot, drive to the hoop, or long 3 pointer.

If Westbrook makes a 3 you can 99% of the time predict he is going to take another 3 on the very next offensive possession.

sound like you have never played a game of BB in your life.

 

[underground629]

What exactly does "moving well" translate to? Lose balls I guess? Anything more? And does that alone make him athletic? He can't jump at all. His footwork in the post is good? I guess in his two good games of the year. Otherwise he just does the same hook shot where he tosses up a prayer. I watched the games in California. He had a double double in the first half of one game, not all 3, and he had two double doubles, not 3. He had 4 points and 3 boards against Portland's amazing center.

Devoe is a scorer? I guess if you put up that many shots you're bound to score. 90% are great looks? What a joke. I think you're in the minority on that judgment. I agree that we're a much much better team when Devoe is shooting well, but when he's not (which is most of the time), he's one of the worst players on the team because the rest of his game isn't great and he isn't a very smart player.

Iverson can move well for a big man, he is athletic. He is not just some tall oaf like most make him out to be. "Having good feet" means that his footwork in the post is, well, good. He only has a few moves with his back to the basket, a decent drop step, a little up and under and a hook shot. His problem is that he rushes when he makes a nice move in the post, he bricks the shot too often. He just needs to play with more control and confidence. He is only a sophomore, so he is inconsistent. Look at the games he played in California. Double-doubles in the first half.

Devoe is a scorer. He will put up a lot of shots, but 90% of them are great looks. He can handle the ball fairly well and can score in transition. The shots will start falling from the outside...when that happens, look out.

I think you need to remember these guys are still developing and players go through ups and downs in their careers. Look at Blake. The guy was absolutely torn to shreds on GH last year, now he has found his confidence and is really stroking it. Sophomore slump, or whatever you want to call it, might be a factor...but I think this is just a natural up and down for Iverson/Joseph. I'm not worried at all, both are very key this year and especially into the future.

They are my #1 and #2 guys I like to see come off the bench.

 

[cncmin]

What exactly does "moving well" translate to? Lose balls I guess? Anything more? And does that alone make him athletic? He can't jump at all. His footwork in the post is good? I guess in his two good games of the year. Otherwise he just does the same hook shot where he tosses up a prayer. I watched the games in California. He had a double double in the first half of one game, not all 3, and he had two double doubles, not 3. He had 4 points and 3 boards against Portland's amazing center.

Devoe is a scorer? I guess if you put up that many shots you're bound to score. 90% are great looks? What a joke. I think you're in the minority on that judgment. I agree that we're a much much better team when Devoe is shooting well, but when he's not (which is most of the time), he's one of the worst players on the team because the rest of his game isn't great and he isn't a very smart player.

You're really an aZZhole.

And you don't know what you're talking about, either.

 

[underground629]

Wow, how articulate. Why exactly does that make me an asshole? Because I don't think Iverson is a very good player and I said why? Can you tell me what I said in that post that would indicate that I don't know what I'm talking about?

You're really an aZZhole.

And you don't know what you're talking about, either.

 

[cncmin]

Wow, how articulate. Why exactly does that make me an asshole? Because I don't think Iverson is a very good player and I said why? Can you tell me what I said in that post that would indicate that I don't know what I'm talking about?

Because you continually rip Gopher players on this forum. They are kids, and they have people close to them reading this board. We all get it. You hate Joseph. You hate Iverson. You hate ____ (should we just name the rest of the team's players and get it over with already?). If it's a Gopher player you hate them and think we'd be better off without them. Yadda yadda yadda.

Here's some advice - if you want these guys to play better, you being a total aZZhole to them on a message board is not going to make them better. And you ripping them to shreds here is also not going to change Tubby's mind. But some people close to those players may be hurt by your idiotic comments.

Do you get it yet, or do you need a bunch of 3-letter simple word sentences to help you figure it out?

 

[underground629]

First of all, I don't hate any of the players. Notice you listed Iverson and Joseph and then you had nobody else to name because contrary to what you seem to think by reading two posts critiquing Iverson and Joseph, I don't "hate" many players on the team. Yes, like all people, I think we'd be better of limiting certain player's minutes, is there a problem with that? I guess comments on the board should just be all praise and anyone who says something negative about a player should be labeled an azzhole.

Haha thanks for the advice buddy. I don't think anybody posts on here thinking it will make any players better. I had no intention of making them play better by being a "total azzhole" on here, nor do I think I'll change Tubby's mind. None of your arguments make sense. People don't post on here because they think they'll have an effect on the team, does that mean they shouldn't post?

I guess you have me all figured out by a few posts about some players that you disagreed with. I'm a total azzhole because I pointed out some weaknesses in some players which you know are true. I guess you can rip Weber all you want on the football board and pull off not being an azzhole. Good work.

Because you continually rip Gopher players on this forum. They are kids, and they have people close to them reading this board. We all get it. You hate Joseph. You hate Iverson. You hate ____ (should we just name the rest of the team's players and get it over with already?). If it's a Gopher player you hate them and think we'd be better off without them. Yadda yadda yadda.

Here's some advice - if you want these guys to play better, you being a total aZZhole to them on a message board is not going to make them better. And you ripping them to shreds here is also not going to change Tubby's mind. But some people close to those players may be hurt by your idiotic comments.

Do you get it yet, or do you need a bunch of 3-letter simple word sentences to help you figure it out?

 

[LongTimeGopher]

Devoe is a scorer? I guess if you put up that many shots you're bound to score. 90% are great looks? What a joke. I think you're in the minority on that judgment. I agree that we're a much much better team when Devoe is shooting well, but when he's not (which is most of the time), he's one of the worst players on the team because the rest of his game isn't great and he isn't a very smart player

This is ONE thing where you don't know what you're talking about...
In production per minute, Devoe leads Westbrook (who you think is a good player) in rebounding and most importantly, T/A ratio, which is a great measuring stick for being a smart player, and is just a little behind in steals. I know they don't always play the same position but with Cobbs coming on, Devoe is getting to play more SG. Anyway, which of these stats show Devoe is not a smart player and the rest of his game isn't that great?

I have lurked off and on for years on here and the FB board and have finally gotten po'd enough at the doogie types that just spew crap out as fact without backing it up with stats or info. So it is what it is...personal opinion.

Oh yeah, one more thing, both of these guys you're hating on are sophomores. Iverson especially, being a big guy, will develop late. How quickly we forget how pleased everyone was when we first saw what this kid from Yankton, SD could do. He wasn't a 5-star, one and done coming in. And Devoe will be fine when he settles down and lets the game come to him a bit more.

 

[What Up Guy]

Have you ever played basketball? Have you ever been around basketball or are you new to the game?

Joseph is the type of player who is looking to shoot at all times, I love that. The thing is, these types of players tend to force too many bad shots (yes, Westbrook can be a victim of this sometimes) but to me, Joseph really does a nice job of knowing when to pull a up for a jumper and when to reign it in. Right now, his shots just aren't falling. We all remember Penn St last year when he really got hot...its there. He's not playing well right now, I'm not worried. I just hope he shoots his way through it and doesn't lose confidence.

Iverson "moves well" = he can run, shuffle his feet and get his body in position well for his size. As another poster said, he just need to develop some touch.

I don't know if you all have noticed this, but this team plays best when all five players are being AGGRESSIVE. These two guys are aggressive, we need that. We struggle when we have guys not looking to shoot when they have the ball, not looking to get to the basket. When we get to the half court and no one is looking to shoot or create, we are in trouble.

 

[underground629]

Are you really comparing Westbrook to Devoe? I don't think there's any doubt that Westbrook is a much better play, nor did I ever say anything about Westbrook being better at other aspects of basketball than Devoe. Devoe gets 2.3 rebounds in 19.6 minutes and Westbrook gets 2.5 in 24.1 min, so I don't know why you're comparing rebounding, especially when they're shooting guards and neither rebound much. Yeah, Westbrook turns the ball over more often, but I'll take the trade-off with his scoring. And the assist to turnover ratio can be a measuring stick for being a smart player, but so does shot selection, which Devoe struggles with. You can't measure everything by stats, including how smart a player is. Can you tell me another part of his game that is great?

All I'm saying is that when the game is on the line and Devoe is struggling to shoot and continues to take bad shots, I'd rather see someone else in there because he doesn't exactly make up for poor shooting by excelling in any other area. I never said that these guys won't develop into good players. Someone started a thread with the opinion that these two players are the worst in the rotation. I agreed with him and many others, and gave my reasons why. It was probably too harsh but I don't think that I've said anything that's really untrue. People can disagree with me and state why, but calling me a jackazz (not you, obviously) and just saying that what I've said is idiotic and incorrect without saying why is worthless.

This is ONE thing where you don't know what you're talking about...
In production per minute, Devoe leads Westbrook (who you think is a good player) in rebounding and most importantly, T/A ratio, which is a great measuring stick for being a smart player, and is just a little behind in steals. I know they don't always play the same position but with Cobbs coming on, Devoe is getting to play more SG. Anyway, which of these stats show Devoe is not a smart player and the rest of his game isn't that great?

I have lurked off and on for years on here and the FB board and have finally gotten po'd enough at the doogie types that just spew crap out as fact without backing it up with stats or info. So it is what it is...personal opinion.

Oh yeah, one more thing, both of these guys you're hating on are sophomores. Iverson especially, being a big guy, will develop late. How quickly we forget how pleased everyone was when we first saw what this kid from Yankton, SD could do. He wasn't a 5-star, one and done coming in. And Devoe will be fine when he settles down and lets the game come to him a bit more.

 

[underground629]

Again, why are you questioning my basketball knowledge? Yes, I did play basketball, and yes, I've been around basketball. Thanks for asking...

Yes, we remember Penn St. last year, that's one game. Anybody can have one good game. Just because someone has one good game (I'm not saying he's only had one) doesn't mean much.

I have no problem with them being aggressive and I do agree that that's a problem with our team.

Have you ever played basketball? Have you ever been around basketball or are you new to the game?

Joseph is the type of player who is looking to shoot at all times, I love that. The thing is, these types of players tend to force too many bad shots (yes, Westbrook can be a victim of this sometimes) but to me, Joseph really does a nice job of knowing when to pull a up for a jumper and when to reign it in. Right now, his shots just aren't falling. We all remember Penn St last year when he really got hot...its there. He's not playing well right now, I'm not worried. I just hope he shoots his way through it and doesn't lose confidence.

Iverson "moves well" = he can run, shuffle his feet and get his body in position well for his size. As another poster said, he just need to develop some touch.

I don't know if you all have noticed this, but this team plays best when all five players are being AGGRESSIVE. These two guys are aggressive, we need that. We struggle when we have guys not looking to shoot when they have the ball, not looking to get to the basket. When we get to the half court and no one is looking to shoot or create, we are in trouble.

 

[What Up Guy]

Again, why are you questioning my basketball knowledge? Yes, I did play basketball, and yes, I've been around basketball. Thanks for asking...

Yes, we remember Penn St. last year, that's one game. Anybody can have one good game. Just because someone has one good game (I'm not saying he's only had one) doesn't mean much.

I have no problem with them being aggressive and I do agree that that's a problem with our team.

I am questioning your basketball knowledge because you appear to have very little. This Devoe/Iverson thing seems like more of a personal vendetta than a thoughtful criticism.

 

[Dr.Don]

"""""underground629
Senior Member Join Date: May 2009
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 372

Again, why are you questioning my basketball knowledge?"""""


If I may be so bold as to answer your question...Here it is: Because from what you have been saying it appears to me that you don't know a damn thing!

You have an opinion, that is all. That does not mean you know as much as you think you do. But, then again, what do I know? I am only a retired proctologist.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Devoe

Averaging 8 ppg in 20 minutes PT per game. Has almost 2-1 ATO ratio.

Struggling with his FG (%) shooting but decent numbers otherwise.