I've Seen Enough

[GopherVotary]

Nice guy who’s been paid millions to do a job incompetently. Pays to have a famous father.

 

[Gold Vision]

I don't hang out with the guy so I don't care what he's like as a person and, for all we know, he could be a prick in private. He's been kind of a prick to number of players over the years. I don't like Fran McCaffrey as a person that much but I'd much rather have him as coach than Pitino.

Actually Fran is supposedly an awesome guy off the court and a fantastic interview. He just loses his **** on the court, when 90% of his general audience sees him.

 

[Instant_Offense]

What is the issue with IW playing time? Doghouse, not 100%back from tailbone injury, or does RP feel like he can't get it done?

Maybe IW told coach he plans on taking his talents elsewhere next year, but will finish out the year. I am stumped. Like mentioned before, other players have had moments of failure to execute but are let to play through.

Don't get to see what happens at practice or behind the scenes, but it's very strange he only gets a few minutes.

 

[cjbfbp]

Actually Fran is supposedly an awesome guy off the court and a fantastic interview. He just loses his **** on the court, when 90% of his general audience sees him.

Actually, I can believe that.

 

[howeda7]

I imagine you’ll catch some heat for where Shaka is on this list but with how strong of a recruiter he is, he could be an interesting candidate. Maryland’s taught us, you can get away with a lot in this conference if you recruit really well. I’d probably still bump Hoiberg above him. He’s proven at the college level, strong local ties and NBA experience. Not sure any of the names brought up on here come close to him but also don’t think he’s gettable.

I'd have Hoiberg higher if he agrees to a 6 year contract with a massive buyout so we know he won't leave the first time an intriguing NBA job comes along.

 

[builtbadgers]

Other than recruiting the players, how is it Pitino’s fault when Players shoot so poorly?


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Alot of truth to your post. Coaches can not make shots. We played ok defense, low turnovers and won the rebounds. But not finding more good shooters for the roster does fall on the head coach.

 

[BballJones]

OK, well, Miles didn't cut it in the Big Ten and Chambers really hasn't either. NW is pretty mediocre but they were before Collins and I wouldn't say they are any worse with him (he did produce two 20+ win seasons).

McCaffrey was a mid-major coach and succeeded in the conference. The Illinois coach has recruited pretty well and has Illinois being one of the scarier teams in the conference right now. I'm not ready to close the book on Archie yet. Bo Ryan only coached a mid-major D1 team for a couple of years before he went to Wisconsin. He spent the rest of prior career at a DIII school. I did say "paid his dues." I don't want to see another wet-behind-the-ears coach like Pitino get the job.

But doubt we can recruit like OSU, Illinois and Indiana. These teams didn't just move on and move up right away. And I guess that's my point too about a "wet behind the ears coach"....are Oats and Otz proven? If so, not sure what proven means.

 

[howeda7]

Actually Fran is supposedly an awesome guy off the court and a fantastic interview. He just loses his **** on the court, when 90% of his general audience sees him.

Hush. Don't ruin our image of him.

 

[cjbfbp]

What is the issue with IW playing time? Doghouse, not 100%back from tailbone injury, or does RP feel like he can't get it done?

Maybe IW told coach he plans on taking his talents elsewhere next year, but will finish out the year. I am stumped. Like mentioned before, other players have had moments of failure to execute but are let to play through.

Don't get to see what happens at practice or behind the scenes, but it's very strange he only gets a few minutes.

Pitino has picked a player to give this treatment to throughout his time here. First it was Elliot, then it was Morris, then it was Buggs, then it was Gilbert, and now it's IW. I think this is a power technique for him. He'll pick certain players to send a message to the others that this is what happens if you get on his bad side. He can't do it to his top players, of course, because he needs them too much.

 

[howeda7]

Pitino has picked a player to give this treatment to throughout his time here. First it was Elliot, then it was Morris, then it was Buggs, then it was Gilbert, and now it's IW. I think this is a power technique for him. He'll pick certain players to send a message to the others that this is what happens if you get on his bad side.

That might not be unusual. But pick someone other than the only PG on the team.

 

[BballJones]

No way is OSU living it. Holtman is a grand slam hire. 21-11 without his own guys and a fantastic class coming in. Archie Miller has tremendous class coming and needs his own guys.

You are missing my point. I'm saying just moving on to the "next thing" doesn't equate to success. And we aren't OSU and Indiana - the luxury of consistently picking up 4 and 5 star recruits. Holtman and Miller may be great. Who the hell knows. I do know that Indiana is still loaded with talent and the Gophers made them look like an 8th grade team.

 

[WilliamsArenaGuy]

Other than recruiting the players, how is it Pitino’s fault when Players shoot so poorly?


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Well, you could argue his offense is a problem too. We have one semi-reliable outside shooter, and we don't do a thing to get him open. He took FOUR shots tonight. Find a way to get the right guy the open looks. Quit having Coffey look like a fool over and over.

 

[tikited]

Well, you could argue his offense is a problem too. We have one semi-reliable outside shooter, and we don't do a thing to get him open. He took FOUR shots tonight. Find a way to get the right guy the open looks. Quit having Coffey look like a fool over and over.

I was just going to post something like this. Pitino has little idea how to run a good offense. Oturu and Murphy down low and they still can't get open threes.

 

[UncleSam'sMisguidedChild]

I don't really have an opinion on whether Coach Pitino should stay or go, but how different would this team be if Dorsey could have behaved himself and if Jarvis Johnson was healthy enough to play? I'd bet the Gophers would be in a much better position in the standings and in future roster projections. Are those problems Coach Pitino should have been able to foresee?

 

[tikited]

I don't really have an opinion on whether Coach Pitino should stay or go, but how different would this team be if Dorsey could have behaved himself and if Jarvis Johnson was healthy enough to play? I'd bet the Gophers would be in a much better position in the standings and in future roster projections. Are those problems Coach Pitino should have been able to foresee?

The Gophers always seem to have issues in one way or another.

Pitino is responsible for not ever having enough bench players that can contribute. That is all on him.

 

[bga1]

Well, you could argue his offense is a problem too. We have one semi-reliable outside shooter, and we don't do a thing to get him open. He took FOUR shots tonight. Find a way to get the right guy the open looks. Quit having Coffey look like a fool over and over.

I don't always love his offense but Michigan doesn't let your offense look good. If you have one good three point shooter and one only- he just is not going to get open looks against Michigan. They mess up what you want to do. From there you have to have players that are able to play through it, make good decisions and make shots. We don't have that. The fact that we found a little passion with five minutes to go ticks me off. Go get better players that can shoot and want to come out fighting from the opening bell. I expected a lot more effort tonight in a game this big, at home with a crowd that wanted to explode.

 

[cjbfbp]

I don't really have an opinion on whether Coach Pitino should stay or go, but how different would this team be if Dorsey could have behaved himself and if Jarvis Johnson was healthy enough to play? I'd bet the Gophers would be in a much better position in the standings and in future roster projections. Are those problems Coach Pitino should have been able to foresee?

Dorsey left almost three years ago. Jarvis Johnson was recruited in Murphy's class. He's had enough time to compensate for those losses.

 

[tikited]

I don't always love his offense but Michigan doesn't let your offense look good. If you have one good three point shooter and one only- he just is not going to get open looks against Michigan. They mess up what you want to do. From there you have to have players that are able to play through it, make good decisions and make shots. We don't have that. The fact that we found a little passion with five minutes to go ticks me off. Go get better players that can shoot and want to come out fighting from the opening bell. I expected a lot more effort tonight in a game this big, at home with a crowd that wanted to explode.

Pitino's offense is to get it down low to undersized bigs (with little time left on the clock) who rarely pass it back out. Nothing else happens.

 

[EG#9]

I am to the point now where I've seen enough that I don't want Pitino back even if he makes the tournament. It would literally take either a Sweet 16 or a Big Ten Tournament Championship for me to change my mind now. I might not have been this angry during/after a game since Tubby embarrassed himself at Iowa in his last season during yet another of his late season collapses. With everything that was on the line tonight, how do you possibly come out and play a non-competitive game? How are you literally terrible in every aspect of basketball in the first half and not much better in the second half? The crowd roared for a team that cut a 20 point lead to 13 with like 7 minutes left in the game. If you (Pitino & players) literally did anything all night they would have been there for you. Instead it was pathetic defense, an offense that looked like it had no plan, and plenty of sloppy turnovers. This is the biggest indictment of Pitino yet: his job is on the line and his team came out and played like that.

 

[builtbadgers]

You are missing my point. I'm saying just moving on to the "next thing" doesn't equate to success. And we aren't OSU and Indiana - the luxury of consistently picking up 4 and 5 star recruits. Holtman and Miller may be great. Who the hell knows. I do know that Indiana is still loaded with talent and the Gophers made them look like an 8th grade team.

Very few of Archies guys are there. Just wait until he has his guys, it will not be long. Your right, we will never recruit like those schools. You have to build a team and out execute the other teams. That is what Bo Ryan did. The reality is in year 6 we have a coach with one of the worst records in history, Bottom 10% in conference history.

 

[cjbfbp]

I am to the point now where I've seen enough that I don't want Pitino back even if he makes the tournament.

I don't think you have to be concerned with the team making the tournament. Although I didn't copy the rest of your post, I agree with it entirely.

 

[UncleSam'sMisguidedChild]

Dorsey left almost three years ago. Jarvis Johnson was recruited in Murphy's class. He's had enough time to compensate for those losses.

Ahh. My apologies. Seems like not that long ago. That said, Jarvis should be playing on this team assuming he was healthy. Obviously no way to know for sure, but I bet he'd be making Coach Pitino look a little better if he were. Pitino also probably didn't count on IW struggling like he has. Heck, we (almost) all thought he'd be a star, and if he were playing lights-out, next year would look good too.

 

[howeda7]

Dorsey left almost three years ago. Jarvis Johnson was recruited in Murphy's class. He's had enough time to compensate for those losses.

Yeah. Weak sauce. No team hits on all 13 roster spots. But this roster is all Richard's doing. No excuses.

 

[BballJones]

Very few of Archies guys are there. Just wait until he has his guys, it will not be long. Your right, we will never recruit like those schools. You have to build a team and out execute the other teams. That is what Bo Ryan did. The reality is in year 6 we have a coach with one of the worst records in history, Bottom 10% in conference history.

It's tough to be unsuccessful at OSU and Indiana. Even Dakich was almost .500 ; ) It's a different success than at MN, sad but true.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I love how losing to a top 10 team in the country is what is the breaking point... Let the rest play out, I'm slowly but surely ready to move on, but losing to a team as well coached as Michigan isn't a killer for me. Our offense looked bad against a top 10 defense in the country... wierd....Do I think we should be better, yes, do I think Richard is the answer? Moving towards probably not, but I will wait the rest of the season as I wanted to see who Jeter helped our team. Be pissed about Nebraska, Illinois, but Michigan is the best team in the conference.

 

[cjbfbp]

Pitino also probably didn't count on IW struggling like he has. Heck, we (almost) all thought he'd be a star, and if he were playing lights-out, next year would look good too.

Pitino has contributed to IW's struggles. IW emerged as one of our better players in the latter portion of last season. He deteriorated this year but a number of players have played worse under Pitino over time (e.g., Andre Hollins, Elliot, Morris) and some like Bakery and Hurt never improved much at all. Even McBrayer had only one good year here. This is a lousy player development coach. Only his best players have improved significantly and they would have improved if they had a chimpanzee as a coach.

The team won't be very good next year even if IW stays and plays very well unless the next Bo Ryan or Brad Stevens comes here. Even with that kind coaching talent, this team would be middle of the pack at best.

 

[BballJones]

I love how losing to a top 10 team in the country is what is the breaking point... Let the rest play out, I'm slowly but surely ready to move on, but losing to a team as well coached as Michigan isn't a killer for me. Our offense looked bad against a top 10 defense in the country... wierd....Do I think we should be better, yes, do I think Richard is the answer? Moving towards probably not, but I will wait the rest of the season as I wanted to see who Jeter helped our team. Be pissed about Nebraska, Illinois, but Michigan is the best team in the conference.

Fair. But this is what happens with loses like BC, NE and ILL. It makes this game so much more important and we failed in so many aspects.

 

[cjbfbp]

I love how losing to a top 10 team in the country is what is the breaking point... Let the rest play out, I'm slowly but surely ready to move on, but losing to a team as well coached as Michigan isn't a killer for me. Our offense looked bad against a top 10 defense in the country... wierd....Do I think we should be better, yes, do I think Richard is the answer? Moving towards probably not, but I will wait the rest of the season as I wanted to see who Jeter helped our team. Be pissed about Nebraska, Illinois, but Michigan is the best team in the conference.

Well, good for you and your blessed serenity, but if you think your little lecture influenced anybody, then you're really full of yourself.

 

[Bordergopher]

I was just going to post something like this. Pitino has little idea how to run a good offense. Oturu and Murphy down low and they still can't get open threes.

We had (and regularly get) open threes and miss them. Over and over. Not sure what games you watch.


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[scools12]

I love how losing to a top 10 team in the country is what is the breaking point... Let the rest play out.

Not sure how many times this has to be said but this one game is not what is the breaking point.

There are 6 years on which to judge. Yet we always have one of these it’s only one game posts.


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