I've Seen Enough

[GopherNuts]

Pretty much the same. Sure we could make a run again. But I don't see a 5-1 run in this team or a BTT run.

Short list:

John Boehlein
Craig Smith
Shaka Smart
Mike Brey
Eric Musselman
LaVall Jordan
Niko Medved

I like the LaVall Jordan shout. Strong recruiter with history coaching under Beilein. Good reputation as a developer of guards from the looks of it too both in his time at Michigan and developing Baldwin at Butler. He is a Butler grad so tough job to pull him away. Gotta imagine in considering this job, he’d appreciate the recruiting upside though.

 

[builtbadgers]

You both are ignoring his question, who is the home run hire would for sure come here and do better immediately?

The best coaches would not win immediately but over 7 years there are many many coaches that would win at a much higher rate. Some would have the won loss record reversed. Still, for me it is during the season and not the time to discuss it just yet.

 

[Goldteam]

We've got the facilities now. We are the only team in the state.

This product is boring as hell. This game with Iowa had very little buzz. The barn was not loud.

There is nothing left but to start over.

 

[Bordergopher]

Not much more I can add to this narrative, but to just say I’m sad about it all. I like Pitino and know the kids we have are trying their best. I really thought we had enough talent to be relevant (make the tourney) and move the program in the right direction. I’m more of a glass half-full guy. This loss just sapped the hope out of me. Can you imagine how bad those kids feel? They want to make the tournament worse than I do. It is just really hard to imagine that happening now. I never thought I would agree with replacing Pitino after this season. Sadly, it is looking more likely by the day... Here is to hoping for a miraculous win-out to finish the regular season.

 

[MplsGopher]

I’m in for Craig Smith.

Get it done Coyle!!

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

You both are ignoring his question, who is the home run hire would for sure come here and do better immediately?

You don’t need a homer hire, just someone better than Pitino. I trust Coyle. There are several better than Rich.

 

[Minnesconsin fan]

"Minnesota: “They have two of the five best players in our league, but they have very little depth. "

that line is from a Seth Davis article in The Athletic-- he gives coaches (head & assistant) anonymity and gets comments on teams/players around the country.
The line gets me conflicted-- on one hand any team with 2 of the 5 best players should be way better than .500 so the coaching must be bad, but on the other hand- the coach recruited 2 of the 5 best players in the conference, so how do you get rid of him? but on my 3rd hand, he is also responsible for recruiting very little depth, and on my 4th hand(and this one might be unfair to any coach)- he hasn't thrived in this era of MN high school players that has more high end talent than ever.

So, for me it comes down to momentum. Which way is the program headed? I'm excited about Mashburn Jr because he seems like a player that can/will go get a game winning bucket when needed. But if Daniel leaves for the NBA, it's going to be a tough go. If Dainja or Garcia were coming next year, I wouldn't be that worried about it- but the Freeman/Mitchell/Omersa front line isn't going to cut it.

Sign Kerwin Walton- get another year. Sign Holmgren- get another year. Sign Holloman, - get a couple more years.

 

[PMWinSTP]

"Minnesota: “They have two of the five best players in our league, but they have very little depth. "

that line is from a Seth Davis article in The Athletic-- he gives coaches (head & assistant) anonymity and gets comments on teams/players around the country.
The line gets me conflicted-- on one hand any team with 2 of the 5 best players should be way better than .500 so the coaching must be bad, but on the other hand- the coach recruited 2 of the 5 best players in the conference, so how do you get rid of him? but on my 3rd hand, he is also responsible for recruiting very little depth, and on my 4th hand(and this one might be unfair to any coach)- he hasn't thrived in this era of MN high school players that has more high end talent than ever.

So, for me it comes down to momentum. Which way is the program headed? I'm excited about Mashburn Jr because he seems like a player that can/will go get a game winning bucket when needed. But if Daniel leaves for the NBA, it's going to be a tough go. If Dainja or Garcia were coming next year, I wouldn't be that worried about it- but the Freeman/Mitchell/Omersa front line isn't going to cut it.

Sign Kerwin Walton- get another year. Sign Holmgren- get another year. Sign Holloman, - get a couple more years.

He's had seven years.

 

[howeda7]

I like the LaVall Jordan shout. Strong recruiter with history coaching under Beilein. Good reputation as a developer of guards from the looks of it too both in his time at Michigan and developing Baldwin at Butler. He is a Butler grad so tough job to pull him away. Gotta imagine in considering this job, he’d appreciate the recruiting upside though.

It would be hard to pry him away, but worth a shot.

 

[howeda7]

Ben Jacobson too.

It feels like his time has passed.

 

[victor04]

It feels like his time has passed.

Yeah agree, he has fallen off the last few years, and there are other coaches out there who have more upside. Having a few straight down years is not a sign of excellence at the next level up, power 5 conference, in my opinion. Its great he is Midwest and has ties in the area, but the ability to take MN up a few notches doesn't seem likely to me. Like him, but too many questions to get excited about.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Another thought - 3 of the five starters this year are transfers. What does that say about recruiting when you have to fill 60% of your starting spots with transfers?

From 2 years ago, Oturu very good, Kalscheur up and down, and Omersa is an athlete who provides zero offense. From this year, Ihnen showing promise, but very little from the other recruits.

All while a parade of MN talent leaves the state to play elsewhere. You can argue that the top MN kids would never have chosen MN, but the optics are still not good.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Yeah agree, he has fallen off the last few years, and there are other coaches out there who have more upside. Having a few straight down years is not a sign of excellence at the next level up, power 5 conference, in my opinion. Its great he is Midwest and has ties in the area, but the ability to take MN up a few notches doesn't seem likely to me. Like him, but too many questions to get excited about.

He's 49 years old and he has been having his best season of his career. They are currently 22-3 and 11-2 in conference.

He is 2 years older than Craig Smith.

 

[MplsGopher]

The 2009-10 season was arguably the best. Still had Wichita and Creighton in the conf, won the conf, won the conf tourny, upset a 1 seed Kansas.

He’s been at UNI for 14 seasons now. Maybe he has no interest in moving up to a P job.

 

[WhoFellDownTheGopherHole?]

Holy fuck, STFU!!! He could win out from here, and then you'd of all had him fired. WOW


We are playing in the toughest deepest conference in the nation and it's not even close, with the shortest bench in the conf(which I understand is his fault). Hey, if the U admin can bring in a home run hire to replace him, fine, then do it. I've been a supporter of Pitino from the beginning, partly because he was young and I saw the possibility of a legacy coach in him. He's shown flashes of brilliance, he's given us hope with great rosters that have been dogged by injuries mostly, but also an early exit by Coffey, and Lynch's bs. Any news on that? Is he rotting in jail now because he was proven guilty, or was he exonerated and no one talks about it anymore because he's no longer on the team so no one cares and they'd love to blame Pitino for that?

This team is young. I'd like to see how they do in 2021 and 2022, granted Oturu might not even come back next year much less 2022, but still.

Now what I said still stands, I fully support Pitino, but if a homerun hire is out there, that for sure wants to come here and stay for awhile, and is available, then AFTER the season, IF the team fails to win enough, then lets do it, lets cut our ties and move on.


So who is this homerun hire???

In reference to the bolded: No. I won't pretend there haven't been a few impressive wins here and there, but it's ridiculous to say that at any point, Richard has ever flashed "brilliance". As much as i like the guy as a person, that's simply untrue.

 

[leib0039]

I could be wrong but in my opinion the issue with recruiting is that Pitino swings for the stars (which is great in theory) But when he loses out on a guy he has 0 backup plan and it almost always turns into a disaster. Can you imagine how much worse it could have been if Shaka hadn't left VCU and we wouldn't have gotten Murphy in the spring? We simply have 5-6 guys who cant play big time college basketball, that's a huge problem. We cant take a Gabe or Willis off the floor when they are struggling because Hurt-Greenlee etc just cant even do anything.

 

[cjbfbp]

I could be wrong but in my opinion the issue with recruiting is that Pitino swings for the stars (which is great in theory) But when he loses out on a guy he has 0 backup plan and it almost always turns into a disaster. Can you imagine how much worse it could have been if Shaka hadn't left VCU and we wouldn't have gotten Murphy in the spring? We simply have 5-6 guys who cant play big time college basketball, that's a huge problem. We cant take a Gabe or Willis off the floor when they are struggling because Hurt-Greenlee etc just cant even do anything.

Well said!

 

[GO41FAN]

Let's move on, for the good of the program.

 

[cjbfbp]

He's 49 years old and he has been having his best season of his career. They are currently 22-3 and 11-2 in conference.

He is 2 years older than Craig Smith.

Yes, let's remember that Bo Ryan was 53 when he went to Wisconsin.

 

[theczar]

At least Pitino is performing at a level consistent with his salary ...3rd lowest in Big Ten

 

[GopherPlaya]

i still don’t understand how people can continue to make excuses for Pitino. He’s been here for 7 years and we have had 2 straight seasons with no depth and only 1 PG on the roster that alone is inexcusable

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

i still don’t understand how people can continue to make excuses for Pitino. He’s been here for 7 years and we have had 2 straight seasons with no depth and only 1 PG on the roster that alone is inexcusable

We didn't have any PGs last year. We forced our best player to play out of position.

 

[GopherPlaya]

We didn't have any PGs last year. We forced our best player to play out of position.

Exactly he has not developed any role players and we lack depth but are consistently taking spring signing period flyers which comes back to bite us by those kids jr year when they have developed

 

[builtbadgers]

The single largest flaw has been not establishing a identity from day one. That is what you recruit too. That is what your known for, that is what you hang your hat on everyday. What is the program ?

 

[Bad Gopher]

Hiring coaches is more difficult than any of us want to believe every time we get the pitch forks out. Unless some iconic coach has a specific tie to your school, any time any school hires a coach it's either going to be on an untested coach with limited track record or a retread that was probably just fired. You're really rolling the dice either way.

That's why ADs get the big bucks, of course.

The safe move is to keep Pitino. After seven years, we know exactly what we'd be getting by continuing with him.

 

[bga1]

Exactly he has not developed any role players and we lack depth but are consistently taking spring signing period flyers which comes back to bite us by those kids jr year when they have developed

This is a reply to both this post and the one where you don't see how anyone can defend Pitino. Let me start with this, I think ....at the end of the season (which is not yet) if we don't make the NCAAs it will be a more than defensible position to fire Pitino. I would not gripe about that at all and I have been behind him all the way.

Here is my view and it is why I defend him: The fact of the matter is that they made a big mistake hiring him in the first place if the plan wasn't for the long run. He was 31 years old, not much experience and he was being handed a below average, older roster and no recruits. He was doomed for early failure in a big way early.

Then he did what a cocky 31 year old coach who thinks he is going to be great might do. He went for the moon in recruiting his first full recruiting year and fell on his face and got a bunch of fill ins and reaches. The next year he got a really solid class but Dorsey killed it. So his first three years put him right on the hot seat.

Since then he has improved quite a bit in my view, though the problems of depth and shooting are indeed there. His record since the first three years right up to the moment is 30-39 or .435 which is at or above the program's historical level. He has 2 NCAAs and he had a roster built that would have made it three in a row- no doubt about it. That squad was the best he has had and was 12th ranked before the bad luck started. He was 4-14 that year in the Big Ten with a roster that, even with a sub par performance should have been at least 11-7. With that he'd have been at 37-32 the last 4 years. That would have been historic by program standards and something to build on.

Bottom line: I see a better coach over the last 4 years than the 31 year old they hired at a discount based on his potential. We do not have much depth this year, but the depth is forming for coming years. Williams, Omersa, Mashburn and Mitchell will give us good depth as will Freeman (I like his potential). Carr and Gabe form a really nice back court and hopefully Gabe will refind his shot and confidence. Willis may start although I am hoping we land Walton and Willis comes off the bench.
Ihnen is going to be really good next year. The big question is who the center is. If by chance Oturu stays (and yesterday we saw some reason for it) then we have a really promising team. It isn't as dark as some of you paint it.

If we start all over, I assume we lose Mashburn. I have no idea on Mitchell. But those two are going to be players. Both can shoot and both are athletic. Mashburn is ready to roll. Mitchell needs muscle but is very skilled.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Beilien might be the only sure "HR". But hiring someone who can do better than 46-78 isn't hard. I'd say all 7 I put on the list above can achieve that. And probably a few others.

Beilein was practically a home run hire when Michigan grabbed him years ago: a veteran coach even at the time who'd had success at every level. That's one alternative, and they're out there: guys with impeccable credentials and reputations who simply know how to coach basketball but might not be the sexy flavor of the day. I'm sure builtbadgers could give you a list off the top of his head. I'd put Scott Nagy in this category.

 

[builtbadgers]

Beilein was practically a home run hire when Michigan grabbed him years ago: a veteran coach even at the time who'd had success at every level. That's one alternative, and they're out there: guys with impeccable credentials and reputations who simply know how to coach basketball but might not be the sexy flavor of the day. I'm sure builtbadgers could give you a list off the top of his head. I'd put Scott Nagy in this category.

After the season is the right time.

 

[USAF]

This is a reply to both this post and the one where you don't see how anyone can defend Pitino. Let me start with this, I think ....at the end of the season (which is not yet) if we don't make the NCAAs it will be a more than defensible position to fire Pitino. I would not gripe about that at all and I have been behind him all the way.

Here is my view and it is why I defend him: The fact of the matter is that they made a big mistake hiring him in the first place if the plan wasn't for the long run. He was 31 years old, not much experience and he was being handed a below average, older roster and no recruits. He was doomed for early failure in a big way early.

Then he did what a cocky 31 year old coach who thinks he is going to be great might do. He went for the moon in recruiting his first full recruiting year and fell on his face and got a bunch of fill ins and reaches. The next year he got a really solid class but Dorsey killed it. So his first three years put him right on the hot seat.

Since then he has improved quite a bit in my view, though the problems of depth and shooting are indeed there. His record since the first three years right up to the moment is 30-39 or .435 which is at or above the program's historical level. He has 2 NCAAs and he had a roster built that would have made it three in a row- no doubt about it. That squad was the best he has had and was 12th ranked before the bad luck started. He was 4-14 that year in the Big Ten with a roster that, even with a sub par performance should have been at least 11-7. With that he'd have been at 37-32 the last 4 years. That would have been historic by program standards and something to build on.

Bottom line: I see a better coach over the last 4 years than the 31 year old they hired at a discount based on his potential. We do not have much depth this year, but the depth is forming for coming years. Williams, Omersa, Mashburn and Mitchell will give us good depth as will Freeman (I like his potential). Carr and Gabe form a really nice back court and hopefully Gabe will refind his shot and confidence. Willis may start although I am hoping we land Walton and Willis comes off the bench.
Ihnen is going to be really good next year. The big question is who the center is. If by chance Oturu stays (and yesterday we saw some reason for it) then we have a really promising team. It isn't as dark as some of you paint it.

If we start all over, I assume we lose Mashburn. I have no idea on Mitchell. But those two are going to be players. Both can shoot and both are athletic. Mashburn is ready to roll. Mitchell needs muscle but is very skilled.

blah blah blah. Would'a done this, should'a done that, could'a done whatever I say. Bad luck. Getting better. Not his fault. Next year!! The bench that provides nothing this year, well, all those guys will be fantastic next year. OUR recruits will be fantastic, but no other B1G team will have any freshmen.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Do you have this post stored somewhere, so you can just copy and paste as needed?

 

[Bad Gopher]

After the season is the right time.

Would anybody ever reach out to you to advise on a coaching hire? As an alum and someone with this kind of experience, I'd assume you'd be a known commodity to the AD.