I've Seen Enough

[Blizzard]

I also think it's time to correct the hiring Pitino in the first place mistake.

 

[howeda7]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if IW transferred. That would mean we'd be losing Murphy, Dupree, IW, Stockman and Stull. That's a lot of empty roster spots, and we only have one current player signed. That's why I'm really hoping for Hoiberg or Mussleman. They have proven to be able to land good/great transfers. I have little faith in Carr and Willis, hopefully they'll prove me wrong. But we need bodies. At this point I only trust Oturu, Gabe and Coffey. Curry has never looked 100%.

And if Pitino stays with a de-facto "make the NCAA's or you're fired" mandate, who is going to want to fill those 3-5 open scholarships? I can't imagine anyone with other power 6 options even considering us, except for possibly a grad transfer with 1 year of eligibility. And forget about getting any 2020 recruits to sign in November. It could be very ugly. If Coyle doesn't make a move, he's making a mistake.

 

[golfing18now]

And if Pitino stays with a de-facto "make the NCAA's or you're fired" mandate, who is going to want to fill those 3-5 open scholarships? I can't imagine anyone with other power 6 options even considering us, except for possibly a grad transfer with 1 year of eligibility. And forget about getting any 2020 recruits to sign in November. It could be very ugly. If Coyle doesn't make a move, he's making a mistake.

One of the local sportswriters (Reusse?) once wrote an article that I agreed with completely. The University got rid of Glen Mason one year too early and Dan Monson one year too late. Once the snowball starts going in the wrong direction (fans/donors/media) the environment becomes too toxic and recruiting becomes very difficult and apathy ultimately sets in. I hope we aren't headed in that direction and have a lost year as we did with Monson. On the other hand, I don't want these decisions to be dictated by fan outrage and we end up with a Mason situation. (Obviously, not a perfect analogy as Mason had accomplished far more than Pitino.)

 

[watertown 1987 guy n]

decisions to be dictated by fan outrage and we end up with a Mason situation. (Obviously, not a perfect analogy as Mason had accomplished far more than Pitino.)

While I understand your point, alienating what is left of an engaged fan base is not a good path. I'm very hopefull Coyle can make a great hire that resonates with local fans and recruits.

I'm been a fan for 35 years since I was a wee lad watching Trent Tucker. A die hard fan while going to school at the UofM. The last several years I probably went to 4-6 home games a year. This year just one and I have trouble mustering up the energy to watch them on TV. Next year...

 

[mplarson7]

If it comes down to making a move this year vs next year, I'd prefer to make a new hire this year. It obviously would give us basically no chance of landing Hurt, but it would give the new coach a year to recruit the 2020 class.

 

[cjbfbp]

I also think it's time to correct the hiring Pitino in the first place mistake.

Correct. This was a gift that has now lasted six years. There is no obligation to continue this gift indefinitely.

 

[cjbfbp]

If it comes down to making a move this year vs next year, I'd prefer to make a new hire this year. It obviously would give us basically no chance of landing Hurt, but it would give the new coach a year to recruit the 2020 class.

Does anyone really think that Hurt may be coming here now? As far as the 2020 recruits, we'll see what happens. I wouldn't regard the next coach as a failure if he didn't land the top of that class. Pitino didn't land any of the coveted class of his first season and people around here didn't seem to hold that against him.

If we retain Pitino, we're quite possibly facing the same decision next year. If he's fired next season, more often than not, a new coach taking over a program in the doldrums doesn't have a good first year. So, we may be looking at two bad seasons ahead.

 

[golfing18now]

Does anyone really think that Hurt may be coming here now? As far as the 2020 recruits, we'll see what happens. I wouldn't regard the next coach as a failure if he didn't land the top of that class. Pitino didn't land any of the coveted class of his first season and people around here didn't seem to hold that against him.

If we retain Pitino, we're quite possibly facing the same decision next year. If he's fired next season, more often than not, a new coach taking over a program in the doldrums doesn't have a good first year. So, we may be looking at two bad seasons ahead.

Do you hold that against him? I'm trying to decide how much these long-term relationships matter. On the one hand, many criticize Pitino for not landing any of the four from that first class even though he was hired in April and had six months before the signing period. (Similar to the time frame a new coach would have for the 2020 class) But then on the other hand, many criticize him if Pitino isn't the very first to offer a kid in the class of 2022, saying he is late to the game.

So which is it? Do these relationships and timing matter?

 

[gophereric30]

Does anyone really think that Hurt may be coming here now? As far as the 2020 recruits, we'll see what happens. I wouldn't regard the next coach as a failure if he didn't land the top of that class. Pitino didn't land any of the coveted class of his first season and people around here didn't seem to hold that against him.

If we retain Pitino, we're quite possibly facing the same decision next year. If he's fired next season, more often than not, a new coach taking over a program in the doldrums doesn't have a good first year. So, we may be looking at two bad seasons ahead.

No. I know you cant believe everything you hear, but not once on gopherhole have i ever heard or has anybody ever come on here and say "i know a guy close to the family who said he's definately leaning Minnesota" or 'He definately wants to play with his brother," etc. Everything that we hear is leaning this way or that way and Minnesota is not in the conversation. Hurt is not coming here!

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I started this thread almost exactly a year ago, and I'm back to feeling the same way. If anything, maybe the Gophers will go on a run like they did at the end of last season.

Terrible offense, especially down the stretch. Please hire Craig Smith.

 

[howeda7]

I started this thread almost exactly a year ago, and I'm back to feeling the same way. If anything, maybe the Gophers will go on a run like they did at the end of last season.

Terrible offense, especially down the stretch. Please hire Craig Smith.

Pretty much the same. Sure we could make a run again. But I don't see a 5-1 run in this team or a BTT run.

Short list:

John Boehlein
Craig Smith
Shaka Smart
Mike Brey
Eric Musselman
LaVall Jordan
Niko Medved

 

[LongLiveMilesTarver]

I started this thread almost exactly a year ago, and I'm back to feeling the same way. If anything, maybe the Gophers will go on a run like they did at the end of last season.

Terrible offense, especially down the stretch. Please hire Craig Smith.

The funny thing is that Shaka is listed as a home run hire even though he has arguably been more disappointing. I'm sure his overall record is better, but I've never seen anyone live off one miracle run (where they were a bubble team that had to play in the play-in game) in my life.

 

[howeda7]

The funny thing is that Shaka is listed as a home run hire even though he has arguably been more disappointing. I'm sure his overall record is better, but I've never seen anyone live off one miracle run (where they were a bubble team that had to play in the play-in game) in my life.

He's not a HR anymore. He's a calculated risk. Rick Barnes got run out of Texas and he's done OK.

 

[howeda7]

As for fear of "starting over"

Carr-already transferred. Not likely to leave
Willis-Ditto
Gabe: MN kid.
Demir-Senior
Oturu-Gone either way most likely

Tre Williams-Might leave. Hope he doesn't. A decent hire and he probably stays.
Ihnen-Ditto
Hurt-Senior
Omersa-MN Kid not leaving
Curry-if he can play, he'll stay
Greenlee-not a huge loss
Freeman-ditto.

The two new recruits are promising. But not program changers that impact your decision.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

The funny thing is that Shaka is listed as a home run hire even though he has arguably been more disappointing. I'm sure his overall record is better, but I've never seen anyone live off one miracle run (where they were a bubble team that had to play in the play-in game) in my life.

I'd rather keep Pitino for another year than hire Shaka, and I used to love Shaka. He's been a complete failure at Texas. He should be fired after this season. Hiring coaches that have been, or are about to be fired is a mistake.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

He's not a HR anymore. He's a calculated risk. Rick Barnes got run out of Texas and he's done OK.

Barnes went to the NCAA tournament 16 of 17 years at Texas. He went to a Final Four, 3 Elite Eights, and 5 Sweet 16s. Shaka has gone to the tournament twice in 5 years and has yet to win a game.

 

[LongLiveMilesTarver]

I'd rather keep Pitino for another year than hire Shaka, and I used to love Shaka. He's been a complete failure at Texas. He should be fired after this season. Hiring coaches that have been, or are about to be fired is a mistake.

Hiring coaches is more difficult than any of us want to believe every time we get the pitch forks out. Unless some iconic coach has a specific tie to your school, any time any school hires a coach it's either going to be on an untested coach with limited track record or a retread that was probably just fired. You're really rolling the dice either way.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Hiring coaches is more difficult than any of us want to believe every time we get the pitch forks out. Unless some iconic coach has a specific tie to your school, any time any school hires a coach it's either going to be on an untested coach with limited track record or a retread that was probably just fired. You're really rolling the dice either way.

I agree it's not easy. I'll roll the dice on an up and comer who has won at lower levels, over a retread 100 times out of 100.

 

[bga1]

As for fear of "starting over"

Carr-already transferred. Not likely to leave
Willis-Ditto
Gabe: MN kid.
Demir-Senior
Oturu-Gone either way most likely

Tre Williams-Might leave. Hope he doesn't. A decent hire and he probably stays.
Ihnen-Ditto
Hurt-Senior
Omersa-MN Kid not leaving
Curry-if he can play, he'll stay
Greenlee-not a huge loss
Freeman-ditto.

The two new recruits are promising. But not program changers that impact your decision.

Two four stars- how do you know they would not be program turners?

You don't.

 

[howeda7]

Barnes went to the NCAA tournament 16 of 17 years at Texas. He went to a Final Four, 3 Elite Eights, and 5 Sweet 16s. Shaka has gone to the tournament twice in 5 years and has yet to win a game.

I get all that. I'm not arguing with anyone who doesn't want him. Large boom or bust potential. I think he could recruit well here.

 

[howeda7]

Two four stars- how do you know they would not be program turners?

You don't.

No one can "know" that. But if he wants his recruiting class to save him, he needs a HR class. He doesn't have that. Not even close.

If he stays and Oturu leaves, we're looking at 2 more Spring recruits and likely another year of no NCAA's. And we're having the exact same discussion a year from now that we're having now and that we had a year ago. At some point you have to put up or shut up.

 

[bga1]

And if Pitino stays with a de-facto "make the NCAA's or you're fired" mandate, who is going to want to fill those 3-5 open scholarships? I can't imagine anyone with other power 6 options even considering us, except for possibly a grad transfer with 1 year of eligibility. And forget about getting any 2020 recruits to sign in November. It could be very ugly. If Coyle doesn't make a move, he's making a mistake.

It might work to fire Pitino- long term. But if you do it- expect a dumpster fire year next year. This is a tough program to get moving. I have felt that he had it slowly moving in a positive direction but it can't be argued that firing is not an option at this point. Just expect another 2-3 year trough. See Nebraska, see Indiana, even Illinois took a few rough years. Meanwhile, Chambers is finally righting the ship at PSU 8 years in.

 

[USAF]

It might work to fire Pitino- long term. But if you do it- expect a dumpster fire year next year. This is a tough program to get moving. I have felt that he had it slowly moving in a positive direction but it can't be argued that firing is not an option at this point. Just expect another 2-3 year trough. See Nebraska, see Indiana, even Illinois took a few rough years. Meanwhile, Chambers is finally righting the ship at PSU 8 years in.

Like the dumpster fire THIS year?

 

[howeda7]

It might work to fire Pitino- long term. But if you do it- expect a dumpster fire year next year. This is a tough program to get moving. I have felt that he had it slowly moving in a positive direction but it can' be argued that firing is not an option at this point. Just expect another 2-3 year trough. See Nebraska, see Indiana, even Illinois took a few rough years. Meanwhile, Chambers is finally righting the ship at PSU 8 years in.

If Carr, Willis, Williams and Ihnen all transfer, it would be a dumpster fire. If they stay, it won't be. Pitino's first year we won the NIT. Tubby's first year we made the NIT. If we hire an existing coach, he will likely bring a recruit or two with him to replace the two we have committed.

In any event, you can make this argument for not making a move every year. At some point enough is enough. You want to give Pitino an 8th try to prove himself. I don't. Also, Penn State is one of the 3 worst jobs in the conference. They should not be our measuring stick.

 

[GopherGangsta]

It might work to fire Pitino- long term. But if you do it- expect a dumpster fire year next year. This is a tough program to get moving. I have felt that he had it slowly moving in a positive direction but it can't be argued that firing is not an option at this point. Just expect another 2-3 year trough. See Nebraska, see Indiana, even Illinois took a few rough years. Meanwhile, Chambers is finally righting the ship at PSU 8 years in.

7 years is plenty to evaluate a program....They are no better now then when Tubby won an NCAA game and was fired....Tubby also had a better B10 record....Coyle can do better and must to save what enthusiasm is left in this program.

 

[mplarson7]

I'm already exhausted by the prospect of coaching changes for both my teams. I may have to pretend this off-season doesn't exist for sanity's sake.

 

[MRJ]

Have never understood the unending love-affair folks have with Richard.

Was willing to roll with him "learning on the job" when he was hired due to his age.

Where has that led?

Seven years, an overall record of 124-106 (46-76 in conference), consistent lack of depth, consistent lack of coherent offensive attack, consistent lower division finishes in the conference.

Honestly, if his last name wasn't Pitino, he likely would have been shown the door already.

As it stands, I suspect Coyle will keep him until the end of the year at least. After that, it's anyone's guess.

 

[mplarson7]

Have never understood the unending love-affair folks have with Richard.

Was willing to roll with him "learning on the job" when he was hired due to his age.

Where has that led?

Seven years, an overall record of 124-106 (46-76 in conference), consistent lack of depth, consistent lack of coherent offensive attack, consistent lower division finishes in the conference.

Honestly, if his last name wasn't Pitino, he likely would have been shown the door already.

As it stands, I suspect Coyle will keep him until the end of the year at least. After that, it's anyone's guess.

I mean, 100% he coaches through the end of the season. Would be no point in firing him with 6 games left.

 

[howeda7]

I mean, 100% he coaches through the end of the season. Would be no point in firing him with 6 games left.

If we'd started the B1G season 2-5, I'd have been in favor of making a move. No point now.

 

[MRJ]

I mean, 100% he coaches through the end of the season. Would be no point in firing him with 6 games left.

Agreed.