It is Time for an honest evaluation of the Gopher Athletic Program.

[wizardofwestwood]

has anyone ever done a thorough analysis of the Ills of the Gopher Athletic program? I for one am sick of watching Wisconsin achieve the prestigious level of Ohio State in the Big ten and in their reputation Nationally. I saw the badgers play in the Rose bowl and now today they knock off the number one team in the country in Basketball. The Positive press for a University and an Athletic program Wisconsin is getting is almost immeasurable and hard to quantify. All I know is there is a very big Positive National Vibe about Wisconsin. I live in SOCAL and seven see it here.

There is NO logical reason for huge Gap between Wisconsin and Minnesota. There has to be some organizational or structural issues that make Minnesota less competitive. Doesn't the Athletic department hire a consultant in Dave Mona who is guiding Joel Maturi and the Department in these matters? Have there been any other consultants ever engaged to help us really dig in to understand the critical success factors that make the other programs so successful? Then someone needs to have an honest discussion regarding the GAP analysis.

I know it is not all on one man in Joel Maturi and the coaches we hire.
I am really looking for some concrete thoughts and perspectives about this. I long for the days when Gopher Athletics become relevant not only to the fans, but can make a National impact on a consistent basis.

 

[matt]

has anyone ever done a thorough analysis of the Ills of the Gopher Athletic program? I for one am sick of watching Wisconsin achieve the prestigious level of Ohio State in the Big ten and in their reputation Nationally. I saw the badgers play in the Rose bowl and now today they knock off the number one team in the country in Basketball. The Positive press for a University and an Athletic program Wisconsin is getting is almost immeasurable and hard to quantify. All I know is there is a very big Positive National Vibe about Wisconsin. I live in SOCAL and seven see it here.

There is NO logical reason for huge Gap between Wisconsin and Minnesota. There has to be some organizational or structural issues that make Minnesota less competitive. Doesn't the Athletic department hire a consultant in Dave Mona who is guiding Joel Maturi and the Department in these matters? Have there been any other consultants ever engaged to help us really dig in to understand the critical success factors that make the other programs so successful? Then someone needs to have an honest discussion regarding the GAP analysis.

I know it is not all on one man in Joel Maturi and the coaches we hire.
I am really looking for some concrete thoughts and perspectives about this. I long for the days when Gopher Athletics become relevant not only to the fans, but can make a National impact on a consistent basis.

I feel that Joel is too concerned with making sure that nothing goes wrong in the athletic department and is not concerned enough with trying to make things go well. That's just how I FEEL though. If you look at the facts with the basketball and football programs right now, it appears things should be great and will be getting better, respectively. Things should be great with the basketball program in that Joel hired a proven coach in Tubby Smith who should be leading this team to fairly consistent Sweet 16's (I personally believe that it is bad luck the last two years that have hindered the program, but that's just my personal opinion). Things should be getting better right now for the football program because Joel hired Jerry Kill who is also proven to an extent and will at the very least, bring the football team back to respectability.

Nonetheless, I am looking forward to who the next AD will be since the incoming U of M President has stated his passion for the athletic department at Stony Brook and how important he feels it is for a university.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

I too have hope that incoming President Kaler will take the necessary steps to make Gopher football and hoops relevant again. After that it starts with a new butt in the AD chair and a 180 degree philosophy on major revenue sports versus non reveunue minor sports. Bruininks has no business locking in Maturi to an extension.

We may already have the two soldi coaches in place and a finally an on campus stadium. I am sold on Coach Kills global approach to developing the football program but is unproven when it comes to this level of competition. Tubby has the coaching gnads but he seems to be satisfied with being on the sidelines as far as promoting the UM statewide. Coach Kill is out there working the streets while Tubby seems content with finding ways to keep his roster intact and motivating his team. I hope they both can get their programs going.

Out with the old and in with the new with a new way of planning and actions that focus on football and mens basketball.

 

[scools12]

I know nothing of the organizational structure of UW but at some point (hiring of Alvarez?) the decision was made that football mattered. The best way to lift up the whole athletic department was to have a viable football program. IIRC Dick Bennett started the basletball program going in the right direction and that may have been a direct correlation to the on field performance of the football team.

At the University of Minnesota everyone has to buy into the big revenue sports being of importance. From the President through the Board of Regents athletics need to be viewed in a different light than what it seems to be viewed as by the administration for the last however number of years you want to pick.

Did UW allow entry into the school by some athletes that might not have been admitted if not for their athletic ability? Whatever the reasons are the University of Minnesota has not embraced the reality of what placing a high priority on the big revenue sports can do for the over all profile of a university.

 

[anonymous]

Simply put, Wisconsin has done a much better job/had more luck hiring coaches than the Gophers have.

The hit gold with Alvarez, who rebuilt what had been a brutal football program. He steadily improved the program and opted to stay at Wisconsin through it all. From there, Barry opted for someone he trusted.

I don't remember all of the circumstances behind the Alvarez hire and the like, but it clearly worked out well.

In terms of basketball, they made consecutive solid-but-not-flashy hires when they hired Bennett and then Bo.

I wasn't sure that either hire would be all that great, could either of these guys take past success and apply it to the Big Ten? I certainly wasn't sure, but I turned out to be wrong in both cases. Both were able to make it work as they were steadfast to their system.

I only hope that Jerry Kill can be the same kind of hire. In terms of basketball, I'm not sure what to think. As the NC State story said, Tubby is high floor and low ceiling. I think there's something to that.

 

[Jdogg0821]

Simply put, Wisconsin has done a much better job/had more luck hiring coaches than the Gophers have.

The hit gold with Alvarez, who rebuilt what had been a brutal football program. He steadily improved the program and opted to stay at Wisconsin through it all. From there, Barry opted for someone he trusted.

I don't remember all of the circumstances behind the Alvarez hire and the like, but it clearly worked out well.

In terms of basketball, they made consecutive solid-but-not-flashy hires when they hired Bennett and then Bo.

I wasn't sure that either hire would be all that great, could either of these guys take past success and apply it to the Big Ten? I certainly wasn't sure, but I turned out to be wrong in both cases. Both were able to make it work as they were steadfast to their system.

I only hope that Jerry Kill can be the same kind of hire. In terms of basketball, I'm not sure what to think. As the NC State story said, Tubby is high floor and low ceiling. I think there's something to that.

I agree with the post. It starts with the coaches. Simply put, UW has made much better hires over the last 20 years. They've developed a style in both FB and BB and never strayed.

You want to win, hire better coaches. This doesn't always mean the flashiest. Bo Ryan or Bennett were never flashy - just effective.

Football was always hamstrung by not having the on campus stadium which has been rectified. The problem was they made a bad hire in Brewster to compound the issue.

BBall has a good facility in the Barn, just has had ineffective coaches. Coaches that either can't evaluate properly or develop once the players get on campus.

Can we get to where Wisconsin is... sure. But it's going to be a process that starts with hiring great coaches. We'll see what Kill can do, Tubby I'm not so sure.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

has anyone ever done a thorough analysis of the Ills of the Gopher Athletic program? I for one am sick of watching Wisconsin achieve the prestigious level of Ohio State in the Big ten and in their reputation Nationally. I saw the badgers play in the Rose bowl and now today they knock off the number one team in the country in Basketball. The Positive press for a University and an Athletic program Wisconsin is getting is almost immeasurable and hard to quantify. All I know is there is a very big Positive National Vibe about Wisconsin. I live in SOCAL and seven see it here.

There is NO logical reason for huge Gap between Wisconsin and Minnesota. There has to be some organizational or structural issues that make Minnesota less competitive. Doesn't the Athletic department hire a consultant in Dave Mona who is guiding Joel Maturi and the Department in these matters? Have there been any other consultants ever engaged to help us really dig in to understand the critical success factors that make the other programs so successful? Then someone needs to have an honest discussion regarding the GAP analysis.

I know it is not all on one man in Joel Maturi and the coaches we hire.
I am really looking for some concrete thoughts and perspectives about this. I long for the days when Gopher Athletics become relevant not only to the fans, but can make a National impact on a consistent basis.

Wisconsin has a much better athletic TRADITION than Minnesota. That's why.

 

[akgopher]

Wisconsin has a much better athletic TRADITION than Minnesota. That's why.

Please elaborate on Wisconsin's superior athletic tradition.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Please elaborate on Wisconsin's superior athletic tradition.

Please elaborate on Minnesota's tradition.

The Badgers have been very competitive in basketball since the 1960's. Ditto football. Not every year but most years.

 

[GopherRock]

Wisconsin has a much better athletic TRADITION than Minnesota. That's why.

Really? They might have a better tradition of partying like crazy before going into the Camp, Fieldhouse, or Dane County Stadium and watching their teams get curb-stomped. I'll give 'em that. But as far as actual athletic success? I don't think so. Quite frankly, Badger sports sucked for 40 years.

Prior to getting a bid to the 1994 NCAA, Wisconsin basketball hadn't played in a postseason game since 1947. Gopher basketball at least has a few B10 titles and deep runs in the tournament in the same timetable.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Really? They might have a better tradition of partying like crazy before going into the Camp, Fieldhouse, or Dane County Stadium and watching their teams get curb-stomped. I'll give 'em that. But as far as actual athletic success? I don't think so. Quite frankly, Badger sports sucked for 40 years.

Prior to getting a bid to the 1994 NCAA, Wisconsin basketball hadn't played in a postseason game since 1947. Gopher basketball at least has a few B10 titles and deep runs in the tournament in the same timetable.

Gophers have only 4 B10 titles since The Barn opened in 1920's (even counting 1997 title).

Gophers have only 2 B10 football titles since WW2.

I don't see much of a tradition?

 

[beavergopher]

Honest evaluation:
Football--sucks
Hockey--Sucks big time. How can this be possible???????
M b-ball--Under-perfoming given the salary and resume of the coach
W b-ball--sucks, but powers are afraid to can Borton apparently

Wrestling--Great coach, gets treated like crap by Admin.
Baseball--See above. I can't believe he has stuck around. Too bad he wasn't a football
player/coach.
Volleyball--Great coach is now gone.

Maturi should have been s***canned for the Brewster hire.

Wisconsin is kicking butt in the the two major sports over the last decade. Barry>Joel.

 

[station19]

Honest evaluation:
Football--sucks
Hockey--Sucks big time. How can this be possible???????
M b-ball--Under-perfoming given the salary and resume of the coach
W b-ball--sucks, but powers are afraid to can Borton apparently

Wrestling--Great coach, gets treated like crap by Admin.
Baseball--See above. I can't believe he has stuck around. Too bad he wasn't a football
player/coach.
Volleyball--Great coach is now gone.

Maturi should have been s***canned for the Brewster hire.

Wisconsin is kicking butt in the the two major sports over the last decade. Barry>Joel.

Rowing?

 

[Atl Gopher]

has anyone ever done a thorough analysis of the Ills of the Gopher Athletic program? I for one am sick of watching Wisconsin achieve the prestigious level of Ohio State in the Big ten and in their reputation Nationally. I saw the badgers play in the Rose bowl and now today they knock off the number one team in the country in Basketball. The Positive press for a University and an Athletic program Wisconsin is getting is almost immeasurable and hard to quantify. All I know is there is a very big Positive National Vibe about Wisconsin. I live in SOCAL and seven see it here.

There is NO logical reason for huge Gap between Wisconsin and Minnesota. There has to be some organizational or structural issues that make Minnesota less competitive. Doesn't the Athletic department hire a consultant in Dave Mona who is guiding Joel Maturi and the Department in these matters? Have there been any other consultants ever engaged to help us really dig in to understand the critical success factors that make the other programs so successful? Then someone needs to have an honest discussion regarding the GAP analysis.

I know it is not all on one man in Joel Maturi and the coaches we hire.
I am really looking for some concrete thoughts and perspectives about this. I long for the days when Gopher Athletics become relevant not only to the fans, but can make a National impact on a consistent basis.

I admit it is not fun being a Gopher fan at times, but I don't want to too far back. Looking at our current state in the 2 big revenue sports:

BB - We hired a great coach 4 years ago. He has done a solid job in recruiting. He gave us one of the most exciting runs that we have had last year in the BTT. Last year we had issues with Trevor, White, Al and Bostic all getting suspensions. If we had them all last year we would have been one of the best teams in the country.

This year again there are issues again. We came in second with Corey Joseph which hurt. Tubby must have thought his chances were pretty good with Devoe and Maurice here already. Al goes down, Devoe leaves and even back point guards leave. Mauice gets hurt. Iverson chose not to play this year (although I think he is still getting playing time). Imagine the kind of team we almost had.

We could have been competing for a national championship this year. We were that close. Sorry guys, in life, stuff happens. I am very happy with our BB situation and I believe Tubby will get us there. We have 3 players red shirting this year. With Maurice back hopefully and 3 new recruits, we will be in a great position with our without Trevor.

In FB we have made some mistakes. Mason should have been fired the moment he interviewed for the Ohio State job. Brew should have been hired as a recruiting coordinator and kept off the field. But we have made a great choice now even though most of the folks on this board and the other board, did not think so at first. In Jerry I trust.

I no longer live in Minneapolis. I can tell you that the Twin Cities area is one of the finest metropolitan areas in the world. I travel all over this country and internationally so I think I can state that with certainty. We have one of the best FB facilities in the nation. Jerry just needs to win 7 or 8 games this year and recruiting will open up. If not this year then next year.

You can look at the glass as half empty and no one can blame you based on the last few decades of performance. I for one am excited. Of course if we lose to Iowa today, I may start a new thread with a different point of view.

 

[beavergopher]

Rowing?

We are an emerging powerhouse. They were just talking about this on Sportscenter. I apologize for leaving out the most critical sport for measuring athletic success.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

I admit it is not fun being a Gopher fan at times, but I don't want to too far back. Looking at our current state in the 2 big revenue sports:

BB - We hired a great coach 4 years ago. He has done a solid job in recruiting. He gave us one of the most exciting runs that we have had last year in the BTT. Last year we had issues with Trevor, White, Al and Bostic all getting suspensions. If we had them all last year we would have been one of the best teams in the country.

This year again there are issues again. We came in second with Corey Joseph which hurt. Tubby must have thought his chances were pretty good with Devoe and Maurice here already. Al goes down, Devoe leaves and even back point guards leave. Mauice gets hurt. Iverson chose not to play this year (although I think he is still getting playing time). Imagine the kind of team we almost had.

We could have been competing for a national championship this year. We were that close. Sorry guys, in life, stuff happens. I am very happy with our BB situation and I believe Tubby will get us there. We have 3 players red shirting this year. With Maurice back hopefully and 3 new recruits, we will be in a great position with our without Trevor.

In FB we have made some mistakes. Mason should have been fired the moment he interviewed for the Ohio State job. Brew should have been hired as a recruiting coordinator and kept off the field. But we have made a great choice now even though most of the folks on this board and the other board, did not think so at first. In Jerry I trust.

I no longer live in Minneapolis. I can tell you that the Twin Cities area is one of the finest metropolitan areas in the world. I travel all over this country and internationally so I think I can state that with certainty. We have one of the best FB facilities in the nation. Jerry just needs to win 7 or 8 games this year and recruiting will open up. If not this year then next year.

You can look at the glass as half empty and no one can blame you based on the last few decades of performance. I for one am excited. Of course if we lose to Iowa today, I may start a new thread with a different point of view.

Don't agree on Cory. Gophers knew they had no chance when he didn't sign in Nov 2009.

 

[LesBolstad]

FOT: Wisconsin TRADITION > Minnesota

"The Badgers have been very competitive in basketball since the 1960's. Ditto football. Not every year but most years."

That's just plain ingnorant of the facts. Wisconsin had little success/tradition in basketball or football prior to Alvarez and Bennett/Ryan.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

"The Badgers have been very competitive in basketball since the 1960's. Ditto football. Not every year but most years."

That's just plain ingnorant of the facts. Wisconsin had little success/tradition in basketball or football prior to Alvarez and Bennett/Ryan.

Gophers have 2 B10 football titles since WW2 and 4 B10 basketball titles since The Barn opened in 1920's.

Wisconsin > Gophers in terms of football or basketball tradition.

 

[wizardofwestwood]

Honest evaluation:
Football--sucks
Hockey--Sucks big time. How can this be possible???????
M b-ball--Under-perfoming given the salary and resume of the coach
W b-ball--sucks, but powers are afraid to can Borton apparently

Wrestling--Great coach, gets treated like crap by Admin.
Baseball--See above. I can't believe he has stuck around. Too bad he wasn't a football
player/coach.
Volleyball--Great coach is now gone.

Maturi should have been s***canned for the Brewster hire.

Wisconsin is kicking butt in the the two major sports over the last decade. Barry>Joel.

We can all see the facts. I am looking for what needs to change that will bring the U of M up to the success of Wisconsin and OSU? Obviously, Wisconsin has hired good coaches who were not really high profile when they accepted their position. Are there systematic or other issues driving this lack of success? I guess I am looking for an easy answer which maybe does not exist. Now is a great time for hope with a new a New president coming in. Now is the time to really examine what needs to be changed from a program perspective. I sense we were on the right path during the Mac Boston/mark Dienhardt era and then the ganglehoff scandal happened.

I appreciate all the sincere replys.

 

[scher215]

We can all see the facts. I am looking for what needs to change that will bring the U of M up to the success of Wisconsin and OSU? Obviously, Wisconsin has hired good coaches who were not really high profile when they accepted their position. Are there systematic or other issues driving this lack of success? I guess I am looking for an easy answer which maybe does not exist. Now is a great time for hope with a new a New president coming in. Now is the time to really examine what needs to be changed from a program perspective. I sense we were on the right path during the Mac Boston/mark Dienhardt era and then the ganglehoff scandal happened.

I appreciate all the sincere replys.

IMO, MN doesn't put up the money for winning nor do they have the desire to win. (Starting at the top, Joel)

We want to be MN-Nice and make everyone love us and have a squeaky clean image and just be wonderful people. And well, winning games and being dominant just might make other teams feel bad. And we don't want to upset our friends. (Not saying you can't have a great image and win, but Joel is just so terrified of looking bad that he is overly sensitive at times)

This is also why, IMO, he continues to support athletics no one really cares about (outside of the big 3) because it shows just what a stand-up guy he is, giving everyone a chance and not favoring anyone or excluding anyone.

He is the guy who still hands out participation awards in 11th grade.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

"The Badgers have been very competitive in basketball since the 1960's. Ditto football. Not every year but most years."

That's just plain ingnorant of the facts. Wisconsin had little success/tradition in basketball or football prior to Alvarez and Bennett/Ryan.

Exactly. Becky struggled to win 40% of its games from the 60's-90's prior to Alvarez. They had back to back zero win seasons in the last 60's under Bruhn and two one win seasons. Hardly what I would call competitive.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Exactly. Becky struggled to win 40% of its games from the 60's-90's prior to Alvarez. They had back to back zero win seasons in the last 60's under Bruhn and two one win seasons. Hardly what I would call competitive.

Again the Gophers have 4 B10 basketball titles since The Barn opened in 1920's and 2 B10 football titles since WW2.

Wisconsin > Gophers.

 

[LesBolstad]

FOT: Wisconsin TRADITION > Minnesota

FOT, funny how you bring up win percentages when it comes to Tubby but not when you make an ingorant statement about Wisconsin vs. Minnesota tradition.

The facts are Minnesota has a .560 and .480 win percentages historically and WI is .540 and .470 in football and basketball. Minnesota has 6 football natl. championships and WI has 1 basketball champ. Pretty clear Minnesota has a better historcial tradition over WI.

I know you are a little sore over Tubby's failure this season, we all are. Don't let it fog your mind.

FOT: BOX.

 

[GopherRock]

Again the Gophers have 4 B10 basketball titles since The Barn opened in 1920's and 2 B10 football titles since WW2.

Wisconsin > Gophers.

Going 198-390 (.336) in Big Ten play between 1960 and 1994 with no titles and no postseason games isn't going to establish a strong basketball tradition anywhere. It took the hiring of Dick Bennett to get them out of the toilet. To be fair, Gopher BB isn't much better, but three titles, a Sweet 16, and an Elite Eight sound a hell of a lot better than the alternative

I agree that they've hit the jackpot twice on their coaching hires.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

FOT, funny how you bring up win percentages when it comes to Tubby but not when you make an ingorant statement about Wisconsin vs. Minnesota tradition.

The facts are Minnesota has a .560 and .480 win percentages historically and WI is .540 and .470 in football and basketball. Minnesota has 6 football natl. championships and WI has 1 basketball champ. Pretty clear Minnesota has a better historcial tradition over WI.

I know you are a little sore over Tubby's failure this season, we all are. Don't let it fog your mind.

FOT: BOX.

Once again I ask where is the Gopher TRADITION? Congrats on (5 of 6) those NC in football in early 1900's. 4 basketball titles in 80+ years. 2 football titles in 60+ years.

Wisconsin has > tradition than Gophers.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

Please elaborate on Minnesota's tradition.

The Badgers have been very competitive in basketball since the 1960's. Ditto football. Not every year but most years.

So in your world Becky winning 40% of their games in 30 years is considered very competitive?
Interesting.

There is no question that the Badgers are superior to the Gophers since Alvarez and Bennet came on the scene. And most recently with Bullemia and Ryan. That is what recruits focus on not on how many W/L's each school had decades ago.

My hope is that President Kaler will truly focus on making these two sports much more competitive. And Maturi needs to move back to Madison and bring out his old red/white wardrobe and be their #1 cheerleader. The question remains if Tubby and Kill are the right guys to move us upwards.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

So in your world Becky winning 40% of their games in 30 years is considered very competitive?
Interesting.

There is no question that the Badgers are superior to the Gophers since Alvarez and Bennet came on the scene. And most recently with Bullemia and Ryan. That is what recruits focus on not on how many W/L's each school had decades ago.

My hope is that President Kaler will truly focus on making these two sports much more competitive. And Maturi needs to move back to Madison and bring out his old red/white wardrobe and be their #1 cheerleader. The question remains if Tubby and Kill are the right guys to move us upwards.

http://www.gophersports.com/ViewArt...=3280&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=8400&ATCLID=1362477 Great teams in early 1900's to be sure.

 

[Carlson 79]

Wisconsin has a much better athletic TRADITION than Minnesota. That's why.

Patently false. Gopher athletics has consistently outperformed WI throughout the decades these two schools have gone at it. We lead all-time in hoops, football, and hockey (although WI has more national championships here). You are relatively new the Gopher sports scene, so I'll cut you some slack here. But for one who usually does the homework well, this claim about Badger athletics (which does not even have a baseball team anymore) tradition as superior cannot go unchallenged. It's simply not the case.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Patently false. Gopher athletics has consistently outperformed WI throughout the decades these two schools have gone at it. We lead all-time in hoops, football, and hockey (although WI has more national championships here). You are relatively new the Gopher sports scene, so I'll cut you some slack here. But for one who usually does the homework well, this claim about Badger athletics (which does not even have a baseball team anymore) tradition as superior cannot go unchallenged. It's simply not the case.

Everyone is dodging the question. Gophers have 4 B10 basketball titles in 80+ years and 2 B10 football titles in 60+ years. The strong Gopher tradition is 100 years ago.

 

[MRJ]

Everyone is dodging the question. Gophers have 4 B10 basketball titles in 80+ years and 2 B10 football titles in 60+ years. The strong Gopher tradition is 100 years ago.

Actually, your the one who is overlooking things. Your sticking with your "well, they've won this many titles and you've won this many, therefore they must be better" despite the head-to-head dominance Minnesota has had over Wisconsin over the years. Only since Alvarez came on board have they even started closing the gap in head-to-head matchups.

You can cling to those "they have more titles than you" theory if you like. All and all, it sounds like the Bucky fans who claim superiority in hockey because of having one more national title despite the decades-long butt-kickings the Gophers have delivered to them.