"It Happens on Every Campus" (Normalizing Rape Culture)

[goldengophers]

Recently saw a stat that sexual assault on campus is down around 50% over the past 20 years.


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Which could be attributed to awareness and groups like the EOAA.

 

[Gogogopher]

i read the police report and in the police report the policeman wrote that the girl said no and he heard a slapping sound. He thought she was sarcastic when she said no. He said he could tell from her sounds that she had been drinking but that she wasn't incapable of giving consent.

Not only that, on Sept. 6th...3 days after she had reported the rapes...the investigator Matthew Wente called Coyle to tell him that players had been accused of sexual assault BEFORE they showed up to investigate. He did this in his own words "Due to the higher nature of the investigation, I called Mark Coyle and advised him of the investigation." He didn't go to campus on the 3rd before evidence could be destroyed and stories could be collaborated. Low and behold when they got to campus several days later Djam's bedroom had been all cleaned up...the condoms were gone and the players all had attorneys. I ask you this, is it normal to give the heads up that you are going to investigate someone so that they have time to get rid of evidence? Holy Crap!? Then they all have plenty of time to get their stories straight , get rid of evidence, erase crap on phones or pitch them.....This is what happens when women accuse football players of rape at the U. Everyone is on the case of the EOAA and but look what these cops did at every turn... In the video according to Matthew Wente says: "During the video one of the males appears to be reaching towards her right arm (not visible) she, sounding sarcastic says "Noooooo" then what appears to be a slap can be heard." ....she appears lucid and fully conscious: she does not appear to be objecting at this time.

This cop is so biased. He sees evidence that she said no, terms it sarcastic (from the woman who is reporting rapes and can't clearly remember much because she was so wasted....and there is no forensic evidence supplied that I saw that determined that she was sober enough to legally give consent). The slapping sound is determined to be playful...not a drunk girl trying to keep a rapist at bay.

The EOAA asked for the police report but the police wouldn't release it to them according to the EOAA.

My question is when she said "noooooo" and Policeman Matt Wente says she meant yes people aren't screaming bias. That police report is so incredibly biased in trying to get these guys off the hook. Delays...it is reported on the 3rd but no one even starts looking at it until this 6th...when evidence is quickly slipping away. It is easy to see how the rapists get off....Coyle is contacted to get ahold of the guys...and wink wink...get them lawyered up so they don't answer any questions incorrectly. Then they all come with these stories of talking to her before having sex and asking consent. They don't even interview the players until the 9th...a full week to prepare. The young woman was at the police office before she was probably fully sober.

Add Wente and Coyle to the list of heads that need to roll.

Interesting point.

 

[Unregistered User]

On social media both locally and nationally, there is a call to shutdown the football program because of this incident.

Really? I am pretty active on a variety of platforms on social media and have not read that yet. Do you have a link? I would be genuinely interested.

 

[STPGopher]

The university football team has come very close to rock bottom this fall. On social media both locally and nationally, there is a call to shutdown the football program because of this incident. For the few on this board who still are blaming the EOAA for this you are missing the point. Blame these players who were involved and let's hope that changes in the culture and policies are forthcoming or there might only be 20,000 fans watching this team next fall or possibly no team at all. Even here on this board you are seeing many long time season ticket holders and fans saying they are done.

Much more to do with "MegaTongue's" actions then this. This may be that straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[Genious]

Question: Reading a lot about this online but I can't figure out the due process angle exactly. The players' right to due process - is that only as it pertains to academic punishments including suspension and expulsion? Because it seems to me that a school must be able to suspend players from football activities without a right to appeal or any particular standards as to the fact finding process. Happens all the time. So if they can suspend them from football activities without a formal process why did the protest center on letting the players play in the bowl game?

Just something I can't get straight in my head. Thanks.

 

[Unregistered User]

...why did the protest center on letting the players play in the bowl game?

The protest was about the players due process, not about making sure they could play in the bowl game.

 

[Genious]

The protest was about the players due process, not about making sure they could play in the bowl game.

Yet their demand when they announced the boycott was to lift all 10 suspensions immediately.

 

[citywok]

Off-topic but I bet there is a sizable segment of the fanbase that would be totally okay with players being suspended because they kneel during the national anthem, but not at all okay with players being suspended because of their participation in sketchy group sex and subsequent cover-up.

 

[CoMn]

Genious: They did get due process. There was an investigation. They got to get interviewed. From the reports the EOAA was much more thorough than the police if you read through both reports. After gathering all the evidence they could, they made a decision. In the letters of their determination there is written clearly an appeals process. They were represented by a lawyer during the process. If a criminal is convicted in court, they go to jail and appeal. They don't get to delay consequences while drag out an appeal. But they do get an appeal. So there is due process an no one was denying them the right of appeal. Who doesn't get an appeal is the victim. The District Attorney decided not to file charges after what I would call a complete joke of a police investigation (which would make it hard to prosecute) where I can't help but think protocol wasn't followed or the investigating officer, Mr. Wente has never before been able to convict a rapist. She also wasn't given heads up that she might want an attorney so that someone could give her the benefit of saying the "right" things to the cops.

 

[The Lorax]

Nothing like a good moral panic to get everyone acting rationally.

 

[Section2]

"It Happens on Every Campus" (Normalizing Rape Culture)

Dp

 

[Section2]

Which could be attributed to awareness and groups like the EOAA.

If so, I would expect these groups to talk about their success, not talk about the crisis situation we have on our hands, rape culture suddenly being a thing, and pretty much the hysterical climate about the issue on campus.


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[Section2]

"It Happens on Every Campus" (Normalizing Rape Culture)

Genious: They did get due process. There was an investigation. They got to get interviewed. From the reports the EOAA was much more thorough than the police if you read through both reports. After gathering all the evidence they could, they made a decision. In the letters of their determination there is written clearly an appeals process. They were represented by a lawyer during the process. If a criminal is convicted in court, they go to jail and appeal. They don't get to delay consequences while drag out an appeal. But they do get an appeal. So there is due process an no one was denying them the right of appeal. Who doesn't get an appeal is the victim. The District Attorney decided not to file charges after what I would call a complete joke of a police investigation (which would make it hard to prosecute) where I can't help but think protocol wasn't followed or the investigating officer, Mr. Wente has never before been able to convict a rapist. She also wasn't given heads up that she might want an attorney so that someone could give her the benefit of saying the "right" things to the cops.

I never went to law school, but the components for due process are:
1) hold an investigation
2) opportunity to be interviewed
3) right to appeal
That's it?
I agree the report is more thorough, from her perspective.
Someone pressing charges should be told to get an attorney to say the right things? That's a new one for me.



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[goldengophers]

I never went to law school, but the components for due process are:
1) hold an investigation
2) opportunity to be interviewed
3) right to appeal
That's it?
I agree the report is more thorough, from her perspective.
Someone pressing charges should be told to get an attorney to say the right things? That's a new one for me.



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Everyone should have an attorney present as either victim or defendant.

 

[GoGophersUMN]

Genious: They did get due process. There was an investigation. They got to get interviewed. From the reports the EOAA was much more thorough than the police if you read through both reports. After gathering all the evidence they could, they made a decision. In the letters of their determination there is written clearly an appeals process. They were represented by a lawyer during the process. If a criminal is convicted in court, they go to jail and appeal. They don't get to delay consequences while drag out an appeal. But they do get an appeal. So there is due process an no one was denying them the right of appeal. Who doesn't get an appeal is the victim. The District Attorney decided not to file charges after what I would call a complete joke of a police investigation (which would make it hard to prosecute) where I can't help but think protocol wasn't followed or the investigating officer, Mr. Wente has never before been able to convict a rapist. She also wasn't given heads up that she might want an attorney so that someone could give her the benefit of saying the "right" things to the cops.

A few issues with that:

1. Neither the players nor their lawyer got a chance to cross-examine the accuser

2. The report does not contain transcripts of all interviews with witnesses, suspects, or the accuser. This is significant because it mentions multiple times that players' statements were inconsistent over time, yet there's no evidence of that in the report.

3. The group that conducted the investigation was 6/7 female, mostly liberal, and had incentives for career growth to side with the accuser. Not exactly impartial.

4. The standard of evidence was whether or not it was more likely than not that they violated university policy which is far too low for a punishment that significant.

 

[atsgopher]

This cop is so biased. He sees evidence that she said no, terms it sarcastic (from the woman who is reporting rapes and can't clearly remember much because she was so wasted....and there is no forensic evidence supplied that I saw that determined that she was sober enough to legally give consent). The slapping sound is determined to be playful...not a drunk girl trying to keep a rapist at bay.

While understand you want justice and feel there was rape, that doesn’t mean everything portion needs to be nefarious.

The cop is not showing bias here, you are. Even the EOAA determined she was sober enough to give consent.. A finding that she lacked consent is defeated by the later video transcript, coupled by the girl’s admission that this portion was consensual.

The EOAA asked for the police report but the police wouldn't release it to them according to the EOAA.

Interesting that they don’t have it, but you and I do. Find out why first, or at least come up with a rebuttable presumption. Maybe they didn’t charge right away, because they needed time. Notice they didn’t arrest. Consider that may have been a tactical position in order to prevent jeopardy from attaching or they knew with time they could roll a witness. An arrest would have started the process.

Delays...it is reported on the 3rd but no one even starts looking at it until this 6th...when evidence is quickly slipping away. It is easy to see how the rapists get off....Coyle is contacted to get ahold of the guys...and wink wink...

You do understand the Girl was reluctant, right? Maybe, they actually needed a story from her first so they had something to investigate.

As for the condoms on the floor, is there anyone you’ve ever met that would leave other people’s condoms on the floor for more than few hours after waking up?

They can’t and shouldn’t force a potential victim of rape to come forward. Maybe you don’t realize that this is potentially scary for the girl too???? I think you do.

the condoms were gone and the players all had attorneys

The attorney portion is factually untrue. They met Djam outside of class and he provided a statement with no lawyer. Like it or not the players didn’t hire lawyers until after police talked to Djam, as they thought they clarified that she was OK with what went down.

While Coyle is a huge ******, he didn’t wink wink cover it up. That is a silly and baseless accusation. He called Coyle, informed him, and found out where to wait for Djam. Djam, came out of class and was not made aware by Coyle previous to that meeting.

The young woman was at the police office before she was probably fully sober.

Yup, maybe that’s why the delay occurred. Maybe the Girl was tired, considering the time of day and maybe drunk…. We know she went to Hudson and back and had a SANE exam. Guess what, that’s a lot of time right there. 1.5 hours to drive it. A couple hours for the exam.

Think of it like this, if I called the police right now and said CoMN raped me at CoMN's place, do you think the police should rush there? Maybe, they should establish probable cause first? Perhaps get a warrant?

All in all, we share some of the same opinions on the matter, but I just want to implore you to take a step back. I understand why your emotional, me too. However, you need to let them go, they are clouding your evaluation.