"It Happens on Every Campus" (Normalizing Rape Culture)

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Mr. Gopher

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To those Gophers (undoubtedly men) on here who are attempting to normalize the horrifying incidents that have rocked the University of Minnesota this past week by claiming that what happened is some kind of routine, widespread problem endemic to every single athletic department in the Big Ten...

Stop.

Your rape-apologist excuses further disgrace our university, disgrace the Big Ten, disgrace the NCAA, and they are above all, they are an direct insult to survivors. How sick do you have to be spewing ANY reason that normalizes rape? Especially at a time like this. My God, stop!
 

This is an absolutely disgusting post. People who use terms like "rape culture" are assaulting the English language with their nonsense.

No one is apologizing for rape. Your argument is offensive to people who talk about this logically and it is offensive to victims of sexual assault. No one has normalized rape. No one.

Rape culture = regret. A culture that accepts and apologizes for rape does NOT exist in the US. It is a fiction that ultra-progressives have shoved down your throat.

There is actual rape. People who commit actual rape should be arrested, thrown in jail and never see the light of day. For you to equate people who are arguing for due process and a just process with rape apologists is just as stupid as it is immoral. When you equate women throwing themselves at athletes with victims of actual sexual assault you are trashing those actual victims. The term rape culture was created by hyper-progressives because actual rape didn't exist.

Women are adults. As adults, they should be treated with the respect to let them dictate whether they want to give consent to a situation or not. If they are assaulted (don't give consent), those people should be dealt with, that is RAPE. If she gives consent and later regrets that action, you people use a term called "rape culture". It's Orwellian for "not rape". It's absolutely disgusting to use terms like that.

Everyone on this board supported an impartial fact finder investingating this issue. Everyone on this board would have supported the players being kicked off the team and arrested if they assaulted the girl. There are people on this board that recognize the process that these suspensions were handed out was extremely biased and flawed and led by an ultraprogressive wing of the University. To equate that group of people, people arguing for a just process, with rape apologists is absolutely vile.
 

Mr. Gopher said:
To those Gophers (undoubtedly men) on here who are attempting to normalize the horrifying incidents that have rocked the University of Minnesota this past week by claiming that what happened is some kind of routine, widespread problem endemic to every single athletic department in the Big Ten...

Stop.

Your rape-apologist excuses further disgrace our university, disgrace the Big Ten, disgrace the NCAA, and they are above all, they are an direct insult to survivors. How sick do you have to be spewing ANY reason that normalizes rape? Especially at a time like this. My God, stop!
Click to expand...

There are not a lot of people excusing the behavior of those who engaged with the woman that night. However, there are concerns with how some of the others have been lumped in and branded as rapists when they were not present. The entire situation is sad.

Personally, I hope my wife and I have instilled values in our daughter and son such that neither one of them would ever find themselves in such a situation.


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In the last 20 years I would guess that the majority of college football programs have had to deal with similar incidents. Saying it happens everywhere isn't saying it's okay. Why ignore it?
 

Rape is a criminal charge that must be proven in a court of law. The EOAA procedure is neither a civil or criminal legal proceeding and it's findings are not in any way to be construed as valid.

Bob summarized it nicely. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
 


If you can't make a valid argument, set up a strawman argument. Mr. Gopher must be a lawyer.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
This is an absolutely disgusting post. People who use terms like "rape culture" are assaulting the English language with their nonsense.

No one is apologizing for rape. Your argument is offensive to people who talk about this logically and it is offensive to victims of sexual assault. No one has normalized rape. No one.

Rape culture = regret. A culture that accepts and apologizes for rape does NOT exist in the US. It is a fiction that ultra-progressives have shoved down your throat.

There is actual rape. People who commit actual rape should be arrested, thrown in jail and never see the light of day. For you to equate people who are arguing for due process and a just process with rape apologists is just as stupid as it is immoral. When you equate women throwing themselves at athletes with victims of actual sexual assault you are trashing those actual victims. The term rape culture was created by hyper-progressives because actual rape didn't exist.

Women are adults. As adults, they should be treated with the respect to let them dictate whether they want to give consent to a situation or not. If they are assaulted (don't give consent), those people should be dealt with, that is RAPE. If she gives consent and later regrets that action, you people use a term called "rape culture". It's Orwellian for "not rape". It's absolutely disgusting to use terms like that.

Everyone on this board supported an impartial fact finder investingating this issue. Everyone on this board would have supported the players being kicked off the team and arrested if they assaulted the girl. There are people on this board that recognize the process that these suspensions were handed out was extremely biased and flawed and led by an ultraprogressive wing of the University. To equate that group of people, people arguing for a just process, with rape apologists is absolutely vile.
Click to expand...

You should have included one more item in your diatribe responding to Mr. Gopher's diatribe. It should be acknowledged by everyone that there are a large number of people in GopherHole who are summarily dismissing the EOAA report as completely biased even though it is filled from top to bottom with evidence that came directly form the 10 accused players, and other players and witnesses with knowledge about what happened. Furthermore, many of the charges against the players are for violations of the Student Code of Conduct where the issue of the girl's consent is not even a factor.
 

Bob in the video she said no. There was a slapping sound. The policemen determined that the woman who couldn't clearly remember what happened after conflicting accounts of whether or not she continued drinking after her 4-6 shots....said she was "sarcastic" and the slap wasn't concerning. She did NOT give consent in that video. She said "no" and when viewed by the policeMEN the assumption is that "No" means yes. They are RAPISTS. And to Pompous Elitist rape is a verb and whether someone is a rapist or not does not have to be determined in court. If you had sex with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with you, you are a rapist no matter what any court says.
 

CoMn said:
Bob in the video she said no. There was a slapping sound. The policemen determined that the woman who couldn't clearly remember what happened after conflicting accounts of whether or not she continued drinking after her 4-6 shots....said she was "sarcastic" and the slap wasn't concerning. She did NOT give consent in that video. She said "no" and when viewed by the policeMEN the assumption is that "No" means yes. They are RAPISTS. And to Pompous Elitist rape is a verb and whether someone is a rapist or not does not have to be determined in court. If you had sex with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with you, you are a rapist no matter what any court says.
Click to expand...

http://thehuntinggroundfilm.com
 



UpnorthGo4 said:
You should have included one more item in your diatribe responding to Mr. Gopher's diatribe. It should be acknowledged by everyone that there are a large number of people in GopherHole who are summarily dismissing the EOAA report as completely biased even though it is filled from top to bottom with evidence that came directly form the 10 accused players, and other players and witnesses with knowledge about what happened. Furthermore, many of the charges against the players are for violations of the Student Code of Conduct where the issue of the girl's consent is not even a factor.
Click to expand...

So, If I have problems with the EOAA report, that proves I have an agenda. But, if you have already tried and convicted the players in your mind, you don't have an agenda? Yah, sure.

Grey area. Grey area. Grey area.

this is not cut-and-dried. It is extremely murky, and there is a lot of room for interpretation. Unless you have already made up your mind - in which case, this entire conversation is pointless. Let's crucify the evil rapist football players. (even if some of them had no sexual contact with the accuser, and at least one may not have even been at the apartment.)
 

short ornery norwegian said:
So, If I have problems with the EOAA report, that proves I have an agenda. But, if you have already tried and convicted the players in your mind, you don't have an agenda? Yah, sure.

Grey area. Grey area. Grey area.

this is not cut-and-dried. It is extremely murky, and there is a lot of room for interpretation. Unless you have already made up your mind - in which case, this entire conversation is pointless. Let's crucify the evil rapist football players. (even if some of them had no sexual contact with the accuser, and at least one may not have even been at the apartment.)
Click to expand...

UpNorth didn't even need the EOAA report. He said on here (and continues to dodge me asking him about it) a day before it was released "I'm sure not going to believe a group of football players over this girl". This guy is so good at being judge and jury he doesn't even need any info at all.


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CoMn said:
Bob in the video she said no. There was a slapping sound. The policemen determined that the woman who couldn't clearly remember what happened after conflicting accounts of whether or not she continued drinking after her 4-6 shots....said she was "sarcastic" and the slap wasn't concerning. She did NOT give consent in that video. She said "no" and when viewed by the policeMEN the assumption is that "No" means yes. They are RAPISTS. And to Pompous Elitist rape is a verb and whether someone is a rapist or not does not have to be determined in court. If you had sex with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with you, you are a rapist no matter what any court says.
Click to expand...

Any ideas why she didn't let the EOAA see a video where she clearly says no? Why again did the police ignore that? I'm asking you because you have clearly seen it.


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CoMn said:
Bob in the video she said no. There was a slapping sound. The policemen determined that the woman who couldn't clearly remember what happened after conflicting accounts of whether or not she continued drinking after her 4-6 shots....said she was "sarcastic" and the slap wasn't concerning. She did NOT give consent in that video. She said "no" and when viewed by the policeMEN the assumption is that "No" means yes. They are RAPISTS. And to Pompous Elitist rape is a verb and whether someone is a rapist or not does not have to be determined in court. If you had sex with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with you, you are a rapist no matter what any court says.
Click to expand...

I'm stupefied you were allowed to graduate from college.
 



Mr. Gopher said:
To those Gophers (undoubtedly men) on here who are attempting to normalize the horrifying incidents that have rocked the University of Minnesota this past week by claiming that what happened is some kind of routine, widespread problem endemic to every single athletic department in the Big Ten...

Stop.

Your rape-apologist excuses further disgrace our university, disgrace the Big Ten, disgrace the NCAA, and they are above all, they are an direct insult to survivors. How sick do you have to be spewing ANY reason that normalizes rape? Especially at a time like this. My God, stop!
Click to expand...

I've got an idea! Shut up.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
So, If I have problems with the EOAA report, that proves I have an agenda. But, if you have already tried and convicted the players in your mind, you don't have an agenda? Yah, sure.

Grey area. Grey area. Grey area.

this is not cut-and-dried. It is extremely murky, and there is a lot of room for interpretation. Unless you have already made up your mind - in which case, this entire conversation is pointless. Let's crucify the evil rapist football players. (even if some of them had no sexual contact with the accuser, and at least one may not have even been at the apartment.)
Click to expand...

I'm a bit hesitant to weigh in on this since so many folks' dander is up about what may or may not have happened. With that said, I agree with this sentiment, although I would add that there seem to be many different levels of culpability here. What I would add is that the grayest area of all seems to be what to do with the second five (the guys who are facing suspension rather than expulsion). In that case, I'm somewhat happy that apparently even the team itself is torn on this.

Just read on the Strib website that the team couldn't come to a consensus on how to vote when it came to their status after reviewing the EOAA report. I may be wrong about this, but the consensus seems to indicate that there are three, four or maybe five guys that should at the very least miss a full year, if not be expelled. I guess the biggest question I have is what to do with the other five guys and that's a tough one to measure.

As for the EOAA, President Kaler and Coyle, I'll let the legal eagles delve into all of that. There may be some culpability there too. At this point, I'm willing to sit by and wait to see what happens before making a full judgment.

With that said, I don't condone anything that went on that night. It was all truly appalling imo and it's left me with some really big reservations about what kind of individuals we have wearing the football team's maroon and gold.

I just hope everyone can find some common ground moving forward.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
You should have included one more item in your diatribe responding to Mr. Gopher's diatribe. It should be acknowledged by everyone that there are a large number of people in GopherHole who are summarily dismissing the EOAA report as completely biased even though it is filled from top to bottom with evidence that came directly form the 10 accused players, and other players and witnesses with knowledge about what happened. Furthermore, many of the charges against the players are for violations of the Student Code of Conduct where the issue of the girl's consent is not even a factor.
Click to expand...

yup
 

i read the police report and in the police report the policeman wrote that the girl said no and he heard a slapping sound. He thought she was sarcastic when she said no. He said he could tell from her sounds that she had been drinking but that she wasn't incapable of giving consent.

Not only that, on Sept. 6th...3 days after she had reported the rapes...the investigator Matthew Wente called Coyle to tell him that players had been accused of sexual assault BEFORE they showed up to investigate. He did this in his own words "Due to the higher nature of the investigation, I called Mark Coyle and advised him of the investigation." He didn't go to campus on the 3rd before evidence could be destroyed and stories could be collaborated. Low and behold when they got to campus several days later Djam's bedroom had been all cleaned up...the condoms were gone and the players all had attorneys. I ask you this, is it normal to give the heads up that you are going to investigate someone so that they have time to get rid of evidence? Holy Crap!? Then they all have plenty of time to get their stories straight , get rid of evidence, erase crap on phones or pitch them.....This is what happens when women accuse football players of rape at the U. Everyone is on the case of the EOAA and but look what these cops did at every turn... In the video according to Matthew Wente says: "During the video one of the males appears to be reaching towards her right arm (not visible) she, sounding sarcastic says "Noooooo" then what appears to be a slap can be heard." ....she appears lucid and fully conscious: she does not appear to be objecting at this time.

This cop is so biased. He sees evidence that she said no, terms it sarcastic (from the woman who is reporting rapes and can't clearly remember much because she was so wasted....and there is no forensic evidence supplied that I saw that determined that she was sober enough to legally give consent). The slapping sound is determined to be playful...not a drunk girl trying to keep a rapist at bay.

The EOAA asked for the police report but the police wouldn't release it to them according to the EOAA.

My question is when she said "noooooo" and Policeman Matt Wente says she meant yes people aren't screaming bias. That police report is so incredibly biased in trying to get these guys off the hook. Delays...it is reported on the 3rd but no one even starts looking at it until this 6th...when evidence is quickly slipping away. It is easy to see how the rapists get off....Coyle is contacted to get ahold of the guys...and wink wink...get them lawyered up so they don't answer any questions incorrectly. Then they all come with these stories of talking to her before having sex and asking consent. They don't even interview the players until the 9th...a full week to prepare. The young woman was at the police office before she was probably fully sober.

Add Wente and Coyle to the list of heads that need to roll.
 

Rape culture is a myth. Casual Sex culture on college campus especially when it involves athletes is the reality . And title 9 puts an ak47 in every girls hands ..and they know it.
Does it not seem odd that these issues don't seem quite as rampant in high school ?




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CoMn said:
Bob in the video she said no. There was a slapping sound. The policemen determined that the woman who couldn't clearly remember what happened after conflicting accounts of whether or not she continued drinking after her 4-6 shots....said she was "sarcastic" and the slap wasn't concerning. She did NOT give consent in that video. She said "no" and when viewed by the policeMEN the assumption is that "No" means yes. They are RAPISTS. And to Pompous Elitist rape is a verb and whether someone is a rapist or not does not have to be determined in court. If you had sex with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with you, you are a rapist no matter what any court says.
Click to expand...

I'm not making any excuses for anything nor am I taking sides but I do have a question regarding this comment. The police said in their report that she appeared playful and seemed to be enjoying herself later in the video...so maybe the "no" was like no, I will do that myself or no, let me undress you first. The assumption is that she was saying no to the act at that time and maybe that wasn't the case. I'm just stating this for the sake of argument to play devils advocate. I think it's obvious from all the players own text messages that there is more than enough damning evidence to violate the code of conduct as they have it.
 

Robemcdo said:
Rape culture is a myth. Casual Sex culture on college campus especially when it involves athletes is the reality . And title 9 puts an ak47 in every girls hands ..and they know it.
Does it not seem odd that these issues don't seem quite as rampant in high school ?




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Click to expand...


My God....

You are a despicable excuse for a human being.
 

CoMn said:
i read the police report and in the police report the policeman wrote that the girl said no and he heard a slapping sound. He thought she was sarcastic when she said no. He said he could tell from her sounds that she had been drinking but that she wasn't incapable of giving consent.

Not only that, on Sept. 6th...3 days after she had reported the rapes...the investigator Matthew Wente called Coyle to tell him that players had been accused of sexual assault BEFORE they showed up to investigate. He did this in his own words "Due to the higher nature of the investigation, I called Mark Coyle and advised him of the investigation." He didn't go to campus on the 3rd before evidence could be destroyed and stories could be collaborated. Low and behold when they got to campus several days later Djam's bedroom had been all cleaned up...the condoms were gone and the players all had attorneys. I ask you this, is it normal to give the heads up that you are going to investigate someone so that they have time to get rid of evidence? Holy Crap!? Then they all have plenty of time to get their stories straight , get rid of evidence, erase crap on phones or pitch them.....This is what happens when women accuse football players of rape at the U. Everyone is on the case of the EOAA and but look what these cops did at every turn... In the video according to Matthew Wente says: "During the video one of the males appears to be reaching towards her right arm (not visible) she, sounding sarcastic says "Noooooo" then what appears to be a slap can be heard." ....she appears lucid and fully conscious: she does not appear to be objecting at this time.

This cop is so biased. He sees evidence that she said no, terms it sarcastic (from the woman who is reporting rapes and can't clearly remember much because she was so wasted....and there is no forensic evidence supplied that I saw that determined that she was sober enough to legally give consent). The slapping sound is determined to be playful...not a drunk girl trying to keep a rapist at bay.

The EOAA asked for the police report but the police wouldn't release it to them according to the EOAA.

My question is when she said "noooooo" and Policeman Matt Wente says she meant yes people aren't screaming bias. That police report is so incredibly biased in trying to get these guys off the hook. Delays...it is reported on the 3rd but no one even starts looking at it until this 6th...when evidence is quickly slipping away. It is easy to see how the rapists get off....Coyle is contacted to get ahold of the guys...and wink wink...get them lawyered up so they don't answer any questions incorrectly. Then they all come with these stories of talking to her before having sex and asking consent. They don't even interview the players until the 9th...a full week to prepare. <b>The young woman was at the police office before she was probably fully sober.<\b>

Add Wente and Coyle to the list of heads that need to roll.
Click to expand...

See, I like that you are questioning the validity of the police investigation. That is fair game as well. However, you condemn anyone who questions the bias of the EOAA report. And whether you come to the same conclusion as it did or not, it is very biased. At least with the police report you had the DAs that can question it.

Also, I don't believe the bolded part is accurate.


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Robemcdo said:
Rape culture is a myth. Casual Sex culture on college campus especially when it involves athletes is the reality . And title 9 puts an ak47 in every girls hands ..and they know it.
Does it not seem odd that these issues don't seem quite as rampant in high school ?
Click to expand...

The true horror of rape is that it is a violent taking of virtue and innocence. That can't happen in "Casual Sex Culture".
 

Robemcdo said:
Rape culture is a myth. Casual Sex culture on college campus especially when it involves athletes is the reality . And title 9 puts an ak47 in every girls hands ..and they know it.
Does it not seem odd that these issues don't seem quite as rampant in high school ?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Just threw up in my mouth.
 


The university football team has come very close to rock bottom this fall. On social media both locally and nationally, there is a call to shutdown the football program because of this incident. For the few on this board who still are blaming the EOAA for this you are missing the point. Blame these players who were involved and let's hope that changes in the culture and policies are forthcoming or there might only be 20,000 fans watching this team next fall or possibly no team at all. Even here on this board you are seeing many long time season ticket holders and fans saying they are done.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
You should have included one more item in your diatribe responding to Mr. Gopher's diatribe. It should be acknowledged by everyone that there are a large number of people in GopherHole who are summarily dismissing the EOAA report as completely biased even though it is filled from top to bottom with evidence that came directly form the 10 accused players, and other players and witnesses with knowledge about what happened. Furthermore, many of the charges against the players are for violations of the Student Code of Conduct where the issue of the girl's consent is not even a factor.
Click to expand...

There have been many cases around the country where the EOAA has shown bias and an agenda. From the beginning you've said we should all automatically believe everything they say. People have said that you can't just assume everything they say is the truth. Maybe the report is 100% accurate but maybe it isn't. Most just want to make sure everything is done fairly.

If anyone has an agenda it's you. You've essentially said that young men can't help themselves when they are in a situation where a woman says no and that we should always believe the woman in these situations.

I will just add that everyone understands your last sentence. The problem many have is the way this has been communicated was so poor. Those not involved in the sexual assault are being labeled as rapists because of how poorly the administration handled this.
 

Rape culture. What a bunch of made up junk. Women are safer than ever before. Yet some of you are so hysterical that you would have us believe the whole country is falling apart.

It is very apparent many of you are incapable of reading and thinking critically. You have not evolved beyond your base reptilian brain. You people should never been in a position of power or management.
 

TruthSeeker said:
Rape culture. What a bunch of made up junk. Women are safer than ever before. Yet some of you are so hysterical that you would have us believe the whole country is falling apart.

It is very apparent many of you are incapable of reading and thinking critically. You have not evolved beyond your base reptilian brain. You people should never been in a position of power or management.
Click to expand...

+08
 

TruthSeeker said:
Rape culture. What a bunch of made up junk. Women are safer than ever before. Yet some of you are so hysterical that you would have us believe the whole country is falling apart.

It is very apparent many of you are incapable of reading and thinking critically. You have not evolved beyond your base reptilian brain. You people should never been in a position of power or management.
Click to expand...

Recently saw a stat that sexual assault on campus is down around 50% over the past 20 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
The university football team has come very close to rock bottom this fall. On social media both locally and nationally, there is a call to shutdown the football program because of this incident. For the few on this board who still are blaming the EOAA for this you are missing the point. Blame these players who were involved and let's hope that changes in the culture and policies are forthcoming or there might only be 20,000 fans watching this team next fall or possibly no team at all. Even here on this board you are seeing many long time season ticket holders and fans saying they are done.
Click to expand...

Your right
 

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