"It definitely is surprising," Jackson McAndrew on not receiving Gophers' offer

[Gophers_4life]

To really cut to the chase on this, they should have asked him if he would have committed if Ben offered.

Did all those other schools who have offered him, only do so because they really thought he would commit if they offered?


I don't know what the "correct" answer is. And I'm sure that a coaches personal "style" on that part of it differs somewhat. I get the argument for not offering just to offer.

But at the end of the day, all fans/regular folks can see is if the offer is listed there or not. You either offered or you didn't.

There's no column in the table for "tried really hard" or "had great early conversations".

 

[Gophers_4life]

There are a few posters that seem to have a personal vendetta against Johnson. Best to just ignore them.

Sure, get this part too, and we know why.

But also, this kind of argument worked much better before the last two seasons happened, amiright?

 

[Gophers_4life]

Best offensive player for sure. He still has a lot of room to grow defensively. He’s not a good rebounder for his size.

So, not even worth an offer, in your opinion?

 

[MNVCGUY]

Johnson didn't land the job here by convincing Coyle that he would focus on signing Minnesota players?

I get the world isn't binary, but to pretend like you can toss this bit away just because it's not realistic to get to 100%, when he was selling himself by saying he would do 90-95%, is not valid.


Effort is great, results matter. He didn't get the job by saying "I'll try really hard! Hopefully it will go well, too"

I assume you are just making stuff up again because no AD would be foolish enough to believe there is any coach anywhere that could guarantee they could land all or even most of the local recruits without blatantly cheating.

And no coach would guarantee it because there is so much out of their control in recruiting.

Focusing on MN recruiting does not mean the same thing as recruiting and landing all high rated MN players.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Did all those other schools who have offered him, only do so because they really thought he would commit if they offered?


I don't know what the "correct" answer is. And I'm sure that a coaches personal "style" on that part of it differs somewhat. I get the argument for not offering just to offer.

But at the end of the day, all fans/regular folks can see is if the offer is listed there or not. You either offered or you didn't.

There's no column in the table for "tried really hard" or "had great early conversations".

WTF are you even talking about?....The U is under no obligation to offer a local kid a scholarship just because they are from the State of Minnesota and have received other power 6 offers.

Have said before, there is a reason they haven't offered, and we likely won't ever know what that reason was. But that doesn't mean a reason doesn't exist.

 

[bc2211]

Did all those other schools who have offered him, only do so because they really thought he would commit if they offered?


I don't know what the "correct" answer is. And I'm sure that a coaches personal "style" on that part of it differs somewhat. I get the argument for not offering just to offer.

But at the end of the day, all fans/regular folks can see is if the offer is listed there or not. You either offered or you didn't.

There's no column in the table for "tried really hard" or "had great early conversations".

Nobody on this board really qualifies as “regular folk”. We all understand that there’s an element behind the scenes that we aren’t privy to. It seems like you are allowing yourself to express frustration or doubt about BJ on behalf of a group of people that, as you point out, don’t understand how the recruitment process works.

 

[Gophers_4life]

The U is under no obligation to offer a local kid a scholarship just because they are from the State of Minnesota and have received other power 6 offers.

(No one ever said anything about "obligation", so no need for you to dishonestly throw that word into the mix.)

Kinda looks weird, though?

Again, I guess I don't see the possible harm that it causes to have offered. There are bunch of other schools that offered him that he won't pick, either.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Nobody on this board really qualifies as “regular folk”. We all understand that there’s an element behind the scenes that we aren’t privy to.

So you're saying that we all have no idea if literally any effort was spent recruiting this kid, because none of us can actually see anything other than offered or not.

Let's say he spent literally zero effort recruiting this kid.

Does that sit fine with you?


I would say that would go exactly opposite of what he sold himself as to Mark Coyle, in lieu of having any head coaching experience.

 

[MNVCGUY]

(No one ever said anything about "obligation", so no need for you to dishonestly throw that word into the mix.)

Kinda looks weird, though?

Again, I guess I don't see the possible harm that it causes to have offered. There are bunch of other schools that offered him that he won't pick, either.

So you are saying there is no obligation on one hand and then saying there is no harm in offering him on the other.

Here's the harm, you offer, he commits and now you are stuck with a player you don't want or you have to deal with the PR hit of rescinding an offer to a local kid.

 

[Gophers_4life]

So you are saying there is no obligation on one hand and then saying there is no harm in offering him on the other.

Here's the harm, you offer, he commits and now you are stuck with a player you don't want or you have to deal with the PR hit of rescinding an offer to a local kid.

I would say you got me here, but I know for a fact that there are such things as "non-commitable" offers.

And maybe those are done for exactly this reason: so all the hard work you put into evaluation and recruiting a kid, doesn't just go up in a puff of smoke, and you can come away with a tangible thing to say you "tried" even though you know there's no chance.

Maybe that's all this kid was really after: a recognition and acknowledgement that he was "good enough", even though both sides know he's not coming here. Withholding that perhaps is seen as a slight? I'm making stuff up, don't know, but that's what I do, speculate about things I don't know.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I assume you are just making stuff up again because no AD would be foolish enough to believe there is any coach anywhere that could guarantee they could land all or even most of the local recruits without blatantly cheating.

And no coach would guarantee it because there is so much out of their control in recruiting.

Focusing on MN recruiting does not mean the same thing as recruiting and landing all high rated MN players.

You're being completely naïve if you don't think local recruiting was Ben's #1 selling point in getting this job. It's literally the only thing he had to sell, unless you're willing to admit skin color also played a major role.

He certainly didn't get hired due to his track record of being a part of winning programs as a player, or as an assistant coach.

No one expects Ben to land all top rated MN recruits. But he hasn't landed one yet. Payne and Carrington were middle of the pack MN players with limited interest from other P6 programs.

 

[MNVCGUY]

You're being completely naïve if you don't think local recruiting was Ben's #1 selling point in getting this job. It's literally the only thing he had to sell, unless you're willing to admit skin color also played a major role.

He certainly didn't get hired due to his track record of being a part of winning programs as a player, or as an assistant coach.

No one expects Ben to land all top rated MN recruits. But he hasn't landed one yet. Payne and Carrington were middle of the pack MN players with limited interest from other P6 programs.

I'm sure Johnson sold a commitment to local recruiting but in the end his job is to land the best recruits he can regardless of where they are from. Which all comes back to the fact that if they haven't offered Jackson there is a reason.

Not going down the why Johnson was hired rabbit hole. That topic has been raked over the coals more than enough on this board.

 

[bga1]

You're being completely naïve if you don't think local recruiting was Ben's #1 selling point in getting this job. It's literally the only thing he had to sell, unless you're willing to admit skin color also played a major role.

He certainly didn't get hired due to his track record of being a part of winning programs as a player, or as an assistant coach.

No one expects Ben to land all top rated MN recruits. But he hasn't landed one yet. Payne and Carrington were middle of the pack MN players with limited interest from other P6 programs.

So far Payne and Carrington are better than Holloman. That's what you want- land the guys that do the best as opposed to rate the highest. Holloman may well be great and in fact I hope he transfers here but I don't see where Ben has had other big misses since he got here.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

So far Payne and Carrington are better than Holloman. That's what you want- land the guys that do the best as opposed to rate the highest. Holloman may well be great and in fact I hope he transfers here but I don't see where Ben has had other big misses since he got here.

If Carrington was on MSU, he likely would have played less than Holloman.

 

[GopherPlaya]

So, not even worth an offer, in your opinion?

I would offer him, but I also don't think not offering him is a big deal as well. He was okay this weekend for Pulley but he definitely didn't look like he did during the state tournament run. Mekonnen looked much better for D1 as well as Groves (not as much as Mekonnen). I love Jackson's offensive potential just hate that he doesn't block shots or rebound & lives on the perimeter.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I would offer him, but I also don't think not offering him is a big deal as well. He was okay this weekend for Pulley but he definitely didn't look like he did during the state tournament run. Mekonnen looked much better for D1 as well as Groves (not as much as Mekonnen). I love Jackson's offensive potential just hate that he doesn't block shots or rebound & lives on the perimeter.

Wouldn't you just throw out a non-commitable offer, then, in that scenario?

I guess that's the bit that I just don't understand.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I would offer him, but I also don't think not offering him is a big deal as well. He was okay this weekend for Pulley but he definitely didn't look like he did during the state tournament run. Mekonnen looked much better for D1 as well as Groves (not as much as Mekonnen). I love Jackson's offensive potential just hate that he doesn't block shots or rebound & lives on the perimeter.

I haven't seen much of either Jackson or Mekonnen but in the little I did see during the state tournament I came away way more impressed with Mekonnen's game. So not surprised to hear that he looks better on the AAU circuit.

 

[GopherPlaya]

You're being completely naïve if you don't think local recruiting was Ben's #1 selling point in getting this job. It's literally the only thing he had to sell, unless you're willing to admit skin color also played a major role.

He certainly didn't get hired due to his track record of being a part of winning programs as a player, or as an assistant coach.

No one expects Ben to land all top rated MN recruits. But he hasn't landed one yet. Payne and Carrington were middle of the pack MN players with limited interest from other P6 programs.

I agree. I hate that the diversity hire thing keeps being floated around. You guys are crazy if you think that Ben Johnson was the most qualified black coach interested in the job. I think he sold Coyle on in-state recruiting and his relationships with the local AAU programs. The diversity thing is just something we are going to believe based on that article but if that was the case Coyle should have made a stronger push at Gates or other guys with Head Coaching experience not just settle on Ben.

 

[GopherPlaya]

Wouldn't you just throw out a non-commitable offer, then, in that scenario?

I guess that's the bit that I just don't understand.

I agree with you. Maybe that is not how Ben operates.

 

[goldenboy]

Teuly not trying to be a dink, but U’m curious about this notion of a “non-commitable offer.” I guess I could see very early offers being non-commitable if the recruit is an 8th or 9th-grader and isn’t in a position to commit. But if a recruit is a junior or senior and is offered, how would a coach extend a non-commitable offer? “We’re offering you a scholarship, but only if you improve to “all-state” level play?” “We’re offering, but only if another recruit turns us down.”??? How does that make the recruit feel? Or is the offer extended but the school tries to slow-play a commitment somehow?
Recruits can sit back and wait for dream offers that may never come. And recruits can decommit if a sweeter offer comes along (Evans). But schools have to extend offers to many players, hoping one agrees. I always assumed those were first to commit offers (you can’t take all PF recruits….oh, nevermind). But I can’t imagine a school being able to put out a large number of offers for a specific position (like a PG) either a preferred order of acceptance.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Teuly not trying to be a dink, but U’m curious about this notion of a “non-commitable offer.” I guess I could see very early offers being non-commitable if the recruit is an 8th or 9th-grader and isn’t in a position to commit. But if a recruit is a junior or senior and is offered, how would a coach extend a non-commitable offer? “We’re offering you a scholarship, but only if you improve to “all-state” level play?” “We’re offering, but only if another recruit turns us down.”??? How does that make the recruit feel? Or is the offer extended but the school tries to slow-play a commitment somehow?
Recruits can sit back and wait for dream offers that may never come. And recruits can decommit if a sweeter offer comes along (Evans). But schools have to extend offers to many players, hoping one agrees. I always assumed those were first to commit offers (you can’t take all PF recruits….oh, nevermind). But I can’t imagine a school being able to put out a large number of offers for a specific position (like a PG) either a preferred order of acceptance.

Right there with you....I have never understood the point of non-commitable offers. Guess it gets your name on the kids offer list which is clearly important to some but it is just for show.

 

[formerlybis]

Teuly not trying to be a dink, but U’m curious about this notion of a “non-commitable offer.” I guess I could see very early offers being non-commitable if the recruit is an 8th or 9th-grader and isn’t in a position to commit. But if a recruit is a junior or senior and is offered, how would a coach extend a non-commitable offer? “We’re offering you a scholarship, but only if you improve to “all-state” level play?” “We’re offering, but only if another recruit turns us down.”??? How does that make the recruit feel? Or is the offer extended but the school tries to slow-play a commitment somehow?
Recruits can sit back and wait for dream offers that may never come. And recruits can decommit if a sweeter offer comes along (Evans). But schools have to extend offers to many players, hoping one agrees. I always assumed those were first to commit offers (you can’t take all PF recruits….oh, nevermind). But I can’t imagine a school being able to put out a large number of offers for a specific position (like a PG) either a preferred order of acceptance.

It really comes down to the style of the coach/program. There are programs that throw out a lot of non-committable offers to secondary targets. This is Kansas and Evans - he was not their top target, but was a fallback option for them. It is my understanding that it is kind of like you are saying - "we'll take you under certain circumstances." Some non-blue bloods put out a lot of offers this way, too, thinking that this is the best way to not lose contact with someone they do have interest in.

Others play it more straight where if they offer, it's committable, and if there are multiple offers pending, generally, the first to accept gets it. There are in-betweens, too, like say you want to hold a spot open for a very prized recruit (or portaler) that you're in the mix for - you keep that spot open for as long as you can. It's a difficult dance.

 

[Tucker32]

(No one ever said anything about "obligation", so no need for you to dishonestly throw that word into the mix.)

Kinda looks weird, though?

Again, I guess I don't see the possible harm that it causes to have offered. There are bunch of other schools that offered him that he won't pick, either.

And when they offered they probably thought they had a chance. If you know a kid isn't coming there is no point to offer or waste time talking with them. I have coached these kids, multiple D1 kids in football and hoops, and I have never met a kid who if they said they weren't going to the U or another school later changed their minds. Coaches aren't stupid - when a kid says they aren't interested, there is no positive benefit to offering or spending time recruiting. When you offer a kid, it has to mean something - you don't want to deter other kids because they see an offer. It matters.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Right there with you....I have never understood the point of non-commitable offers. Guess it gets your name on the kids offer list which is clearly important to some but it is just for show.

Everything these days is related to pumping a kid up and recognizing them.

It can be thought of as a simple recognition. "Hey, we know we aren't mutually interested, but we want to recognize you with an 'offer', even though it's just for show as we both know".

 

[Gophers_4life]

And when they offered they probably thought they had a chance. If you know a kid isn't coming there is no point to offer or waste time talking with them. I have coached these kids, multiple D1 kids in football and hoops, and I have never met a kid who if they said they weren't going to the U or another school later changed their minds. Coaches aren't stupid - when a kid says they aren't interested, there is no positive benefit to offering or spending time recruiting. When you offer a kid, it has to mean something - you don't want to deter other kids because they see an offer. It matters.

It's just tough for me to buy this, the way you're trying to sell it, when kids go on Twitter to "celebrate" and personally thank coaches from every DI school they receive an offer from, even though knowing full well that they're not going there.

How do you explain that? Just being polite? Well .... yeah! That's just fine, isn't it? We can be "polite" with an "offer" too. Again, not seeing any harm done.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I agree. I hate that the diversity hire thing keeps being floated around. You guys are crazy if you think that Ben Johnson was the most qualified black coach interested in the job. I think he sold Coyle on in-state recruiting and his relationships with the local AAU programs. The diversity thing is just something we are going to believe based on that article but if that was the case Coyle should have made a stronger push at Gates or other guys with Head Coaching experience not just settle on Ben.

Gates was their first choice, but he declined an interview and was not interested in this job.

 

[GopherPlaya]

Gates was their first choice, but he declined an interview and was not interested in this job.

My point is he's not a diversity hire. He was hired because of the local ties and us "missing out on Minnesota kids". It's not like the 24-26 classes are stock with can't miss prospects

 

[bc2211]

So you're saying that we all have no idea if literally any effort was spent recruiting this kid, because none of us can actually see anything other than offered or not.

Let's say he spent literally zero effort recruiting this kid.

Does that sit fine with you?


I would say that would go exactly opposite of what he sold himself as to Mark Coyle, in lieu of having any head coaching experience.

It sits fine with me.

I can think of plenty of things that don’t sit well with me, but this is so, soooo far under the radar.

 

[bc2211]

I would say you got me here, but I know for a fact that there are such things as "non-commitable" offers.

And maybe those are done for exactly this reason: so all the hard work you put into evaluation and recruiting a kid, doesn't just go up in a puff of smoke, and you can come away with a tangible thing to say you "tried" even though you know there's no chance.

Maybe that's all this kid was really after: a recognition and acknowledgement that he was "good enough", even though both sides know he's not coming here. Withholding that perhaps is seen as a slight? I'm making stuff up, don't know, but that's what I do, speculate about things I don't know.

All of your reasoning throughout this thread based on the feelings of some kid who was always going to get choose a from several full ride scholarships and a piece of an NIL pie, or the concerns of handwringing fans who want to win with Minnesota kids or no one. Neither are about the integrity of the program or winning.

 

[Gophers_4life]

My point is he's not a diversity hire. He was hired because of the local ties and us "missing out on Minnesota kids". It's not like the 24-26 classes are stock with can't miss prospects

That is quite convenient!!

"You know how I said my top priority, and the main thing that justified you overlooking the fact that I have no head coaching experience, was recruiting local kids? Well actually, there just aren't that many good ones to recruit! So yeah, nevermind about all that."