It’s Time for Coyle to hit F#€k it!

[Otis]

Just as Deadpool hit rock bottom, Gopher basketball is no longer circling the drain but is in the cess pool.

His great recruiter coach has lost his best recruit and now his highest floor freshman has entered the portal. Battle and Cooper are in the way out and Garcia has got to feel caged.

Rock meet bottom.

Just pull the pin and blow it up!

Get a coach who can actually coach and recruit. Talk those skin flint regents into coughing up for a name who can raise our status and get out of this funk.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Just as Deadpool hit rock bottom, Gopher basketball is no longer circling the drain but is in the cess pool.

His great recruiter coach has lost his best recruit and now his highest floor freshman has entered the portal. Battle and Cooper are in the way out and Garcia has got to feel caged.

Rock meet bottom.

Just pull the pin and blow it up!

Get a coach who can actually coach and recruit. Talk those skin flint regents into coughing up for a name who can raise our status and get out of this funk.

Payne to me has the highest ceiling of any
Freshmen and I can see being in the NBA

 

[Bad Gopher]

The thing is, Johnson is not without his recruiting and coaching abilities. He was always well thought of as an assistant. It's just that you need a chance to develop a way of doing things before you're thrust into a Power 6 program. Throwing an inexperienced person into something like this: I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Payne to me has the highest ceiling of ant Freshmen and I can see being in the NBA

He will need to develop PF skills and get much more mobile for the NBA game. The true traditional centers are much larger (and I know he has a large wingspan). I couldn't imaging him guarding the real centers of the NBA.

If Oturu can't play in the NBA, I don't know how Payne can as the era of post only players is long gone.

 

[MennoSota]

Just as Deadpool hit rock bottom, Gopher basketball is no longer circling the drain but is in the cess pool.

His great recruiter coach has lost his best recruit and now his highest floor freshman has entered the portal. Battle and Cooper are in the way out and Garcia has got to feel caged.

Rock meet bottom.

Just pull the pin and blow it up!

Get a coach who can actually coach and recruit. Talk those skin flint regents into coughing up for a name who can raise our status and get out of this funk.

Yep, we have to end the basketball program. It is and always will be the Boston College of the B1G. It's time to support our Men's and Women's swimming and diving program. Basketball doesn't exist at UMN.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

He will need to develop PF skills and get much more mobile for the NBA game. The true traditional centers are much larger (and I know he has a large wingspan). I couldn't imaging him guarding the real centers of the NBA.

If Oturu can't play in the NBA,

Why is Dan more equipped to do it than Payne?
Please be specific as possible- txs

I don't know how Payne can as the era of post only players is long gone.

 

[Gophers7633]

Why is Dan more equipped to do it than Payne?
Please be specific as possible- txs

Oturu is much more skilled than Payne is. It's not really close and pretty obvious.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Oturu is much more skilled than Payne is. It's not really close and pretty obvious.

Based on what? Your opinion or stats after Freshman year?

It ain’t the former sparky, per basketball reference -
Dan 10.8, 7, .5 Assist
PP. 8.2, 5.2, 1.3. - no blocks or steals listed for PP in the site, so not on here

Daniel Oturu College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Daniel Oturu - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Pharrel Payne College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Pharrel Payne - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

PP is a better passer, has as good hands and is already bigger 6’9 255 vs 6’8 240 - Dan was never 6’10 - this is confirmed on his pro reference pages.

 

[goldengophers]

There is a reason you find proven mid-major coaches to fill B1G coaching jobs., would have loved to see Ben here in 4-7 years.

 

[leib0039]

Based on what? Your opinion or stats after Freshman year?

It ain’t the former sparky, per basketball reference -
Dan 10.8, 7, .5 Assist
PP. 8.2, 5.2, 1.3. - no blocks or steals listed for PP in the site, so not on here

Daniel Oturu College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Daniel Oturu - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Pharrel Payne College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Pharrel Payne - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

PP is a better passer, has as good hands and is already bigger 6’9 255 vs 6’8 240 - Dan was never 6’10 - this is confirmed on his pro reference pages.

You clearly don't watch or understand the NBA. the answer specifically is shooting. His sophomore year Oturu was 37ish % from 3 and 70% free throws. That's the only reason he got drafted.

PP will never be a good shooter or elite nba athlete. Thus he can't make the nba in 2023. In 1983 sure he plays 4 years, gets picked at like 26 and plays 8 years as a banger who doesn't leave the post. There is no room for him in today's nba. It's not a knock, it's the truth. He can be a good to great college player, that does NOTHING for the nba, look no further than edey.

 

[Gophers7633]

Based on what? Your opinion or stats after Freshman year?

It ain’t the former sparky, per basketball reference -
Dan 10.8, 7, .5 Assist
PP. 8.2, 5.2, 1.3. - no blocks or steals listed for PP in the site, so not on here

Daniel Oturu College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Daniel Oturu - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Pharrel Payne College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Pharrel Payne - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

PP is a better passer, has as good hands and is already bigger 6’9 255 vs 6’8 240 - Dan was never 6’10.

Lmao. Before I say anything, I do think Payne is a good player. But, Oturu can actually shoot outside 5 feet. Comparing FR stats doesn't mean much when Oturu played on a good team, and Payne played on the worst team in my life.

Also, next year at this time, while I hope he will be, Payne will not be a projected early 2nd round pick.

If a dude like Kofi Cockburn can't make the NBA, Payne has no shot.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Yep, we have to end the basketball program. It is and always will be the Boston College of the B1G. It's time to support our Men's and Women's swimming and diving program. Basketball doesn't exist at UMN.

Boston College went 9-11 in the ACC. We wish.

 

[bga1]

You clearly don't watch or understand the NBA. the answer specifically is shooting. His sophomore year Oturu was 37ish % from 3 and 70% free throws. That's the only reason he got drafted.

PP will never be a good shooter

How do you know this?

or elite nba athlete. Thus he can't make the nba in 2023. In 1983 sure he plays 4 years, gets picked at like 26 and plays 8 years as a banger who doesn't leave the post. There is no room for him in today's nba. It's not a knock, it's the truth. He can be a good to great college player, that does NOTHING for the nba, look no further than edey.

Players develop. Payne has great raw materials. Let's see how he develops himself. He was far better at the end of this year than at the start of it.

 

[Off-GridTNgopher]

2 years of absolutely horrid results gets you canned no matter the job... Could you see 3m keeping the CEO if the results equated to what Ben is producing?? No... It's time to make the change.... Time to make it NOW

 

[leib0039]

I know you don't understand the NBA by the questions you ask . If you want to know why PP isn't an nba level prospect you are either delusional or have 0 idea how the nba works.

Again, not a slight, I love PP college upside, hes just not an nba guy and never will be.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

The odds of Coyle firing Johnson after 2 seasons were always very low.

the odds of Coyle firing Johnson right after he fired Lindsay Whalen are so low as to be almost infinitesimal.

there is no way in hades that Coyle is going to put himself in a situation where he has to hire a new Men's coach and a new Women's coach simultaneously.

 

[Unregistered User]

Throwing an inexperienced person into something like this: I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy.

I would do that every day, week, month and year to wisconsin and iowa

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

The odds of Coyle firing Johnson after 2 seasons were always very low.

the odds of Coyle firing Johnson right after he fired Lindsay Whalen are so low as to be almost infinitesimal.

there is no way in hades that Coyle is going to put himself in a situation where he has to hire a new Men's coach and a new Women's coach simultaneously.

I agree with this to an extent, if not for different reasons.

Ben has shown enough, more than enough, to get shitcanned by most any other major school in the country.

But yes, it was always extremely unlikely the UofM was going to fire a black HC after 2 years. I doubt the defections and departures, as alarming as they might be, have anything to do with this changing.

I think the Administration's decision on moving forward was almost certainly made long ago, results and defections, mass exodus was likely never going to move the needle much for them. Which is really disappointing. The decision for staying the course has almost nothing to do with merit or the product on the floor. Money is most definitely a significant factor in the entire equation, but certainly not the only one

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

You clearly don't watch or understand the NBA. the answer specifically is shooting.

Amazingly you post on the same free website as me - wowza.

His sophomore year Oturu was 37ish % from 3 and 70% free throws. That's the only reason he got drafted.

First round David Roddy says - ever hear of him.

David Roddy College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

David Roddy - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Per college basketball reference, he was a career .319 from 3
Fr - .195
Soph - .278
Jr - .438

So.one after his first two years could foresee his improvement to his Jr. Year - that’s why absolutes, which you appear to favor, are the dominion of those seek easy answers in my experience.
Roddy isn’t the primary 3 point shooter he is a threat from 3 and that allows for spacing.

Players improve, git it?

PP needs to be competent 10 about 15 feet and that will be sufficient IMO - there is a myth that ever big man has to be able to shoot from 3 - causal fan comment?

PP will never be a good shooter or elite nba athlete. Thus he can't make the nba in 2023. In 1983 sure he plays 4 years, gets picked at like 26 and plays 8 years as a banger who doesn't leave the post. There is no room for him in today's nba. It's not a knock, it's the truth.

Your truth ace - we’ll see.

He can be a good to great college player, that does NOTHING for the nba, look no further than edey.

Wait till he gets into the league Carnac to render judgement.
Rudy G says hi too boo

 

[howeda7]

The odds of Coyle firing Johnson after 2 seasons were always very low.

the odds of Coyle firing Johnson right after he fired Lindsay Whalen are so low as to be almost infinitesimal.

there is no way in hades that Coyle is going to put himself in a situation where he has to hire a new Men's coach and a new Women's coach simultaneously.

He was never going to give Whalen year 6 while not giving Ben year 3, so I'll disagree on point 2. Whatever the baseline odds were, Whalen's firing made it more likely, not less.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Lmao. Before I say anything, I do think Payne is a good player. But, Oturu can actually shoot outside 5 feet. Comparing FR stats doesn't mean much when Oturu played on a good team, and Payne played on the worst team in my life.

Why don’t the stats matter?
If anything PP’s stats would me better in a better team.

Also, next year at this time, while I hope he will be, Payne will not be a projected early 2nd round pick.

So?
Dan needed to stay on school another year, he wasn’t strong enough, his lower half compared to PPs; you block out/post up with your hindquarters.

If a dude like Kofi Cockburn can't make the NBA, Payne has no shot.

disagree because PP is an excellent passer, already, amazing hands and his foul shooting improved noticeably in the last third of the season, per Freshman improve thread.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I agree with this to an extent, if not for different reasons.

Ben has shown enough, more than enough, to get shitcanned by most any other major school in the country.

But yes, it was always extremely unlikely the UofM was going to fire a black HC after 2 years. I doubt the defections and departures, as alarming as they might be, have anything to do with this changing.

I think the Administration's decision on moving forward was almost certainly made long ago, results and defections, mass exodus was likely never going to move the needle much for them. Which is really disappointing. The decision for staying the course has almost nothing to do with merit or the product on the floor. Money is most definitely a significant factor in the entire equation, but certainly not the only one

You would say that a good administrator always has contingency plans, right? Even for the instance where your coach pulled a Brenda and left after one year. Either their contingency plan for this scenario was to ride the thing to the bottom...or maybe they didn't have one.

 

[forever a gopher]

Amazingly you post on the same free website as me - wowza.

First round David Roddy says - ever hear of him.

David Roddy College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

David Roddy - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Per college basketball reference, he was a career .319 from 3
Fr - .195
Soph - .278
Jr - .438

So.one after his first two years could foresee his improvement to his Jr. Year - that’s why absolutes, which you appear to favor, are the dominion of those seek easy answers in my experience.
Roddy isn’t the primary 3 point shooter he is a threat from 3 and that allows for spacing.

Players improve, git it?

PP needs to be competent 10 about 15 feet and that will be sufficient IMO - there is a myth that ever big man has to be able to shoot from 3 - causal fan comment?



Your truth ace - we’ll see.

Wait till he gets into the league Carnac to render judgement.
Rudy G says hi too boo

David Roddy attempted 77 3-pointers his freshman year alone. PP attempted zero. Roddy was also a 77% FT shooter his freshman year (PP was 48%). Somebody smarter than I can pull up those fancy shot chart deals, but I'm willing to bet PP's shots from outside 5' amounted to no more than 10% of his total shots. We honestly have no idea where his shot acumen currently is, based on a dearth of real world examples. Rudy Gobert is a legit 7-footer, so not sure how you even compare the two. I'm sorry, I like PP, but this is an absolute odd (and impossible) hill to die on.

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Why is Dan more equipped to do it than Payne?
Please be specific as possible- txs

He is much more mobile than Payne, this allows him better opportunity to defend high pick'n'roll, which the NBA is all about...while also being taller than Payne (6'10" to Payne's 6'9"). Further, he has a much softer touch and can extend his range to 20 feet (something Payne cannot do right now). Granted, 20 ft shots in the NBA are bad shots.

Who do you see Payne guarding in the modern NBA? There are no more Gary Trent's. He would be closest to a Miles Turner, but even Miles Turner is 6'11", and shoots ~38% on 3s (90-234 this year so far).

 

[Dano564]

The thing is, Johnson is not without his recruiting and coaching abilities. He was always well thought of as an assistant. It's just that you need a chance to develop a way of doing things before you're thrust into a Power 6 program. Throwing an inexperienced person into something like this: I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy.

Ben might have a nice recruiting network, but his coaching network is essentially Dave Thorson.
He worked under Pitino and that didn't go well.
Very small network of other coaches he can share player references on. Potential transfers.
Just very ill-prepared and fans are bearing the burden of having to be this patient.

 

[Gophers7633]

Why don’t the stats matter?
If anything PP’s stats would me better in a better team.

So?
Dan needed to stay on school another year, he wasn’t strong enough, his lower half compared to PPs; you block out/post up with your hindquarters.

disagree because PP is an excellent passer, already, amazing hands and his foul shooting improved noticeably in the last third of the season, per Freshman improve thread.

Stats don't matter because Payne wouldn't have had any stats if he played on the same team Oturu did as a FR. He would have gotten maybe 8-10 mpg if he was lucky. Just for reference the starting 5 on that team was Oturu, Coffey, Murphy, Gabe and McBrayer. That team was loaded compared to this team.

He just doesn't have an NBA game. That's not to say he isn't a good CBB player, because he will be. But there's a reason why guys like Edey, Dickinson, Tshiebwe, and Timme all came back.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

You would say that a good administrator always has contingency plans, right? Even for the instance where your coach pulled a Brenda and left after one year. Either their contingency plan for this scenario was to ride the thing to the bottom...or maybe they didn't have one.

Ride it to the bottom hahahahaha

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Based on what? Your opinion or stats after Freshman year?

It ain’t the former sparky, per basketball reference -
Dan 10.8, 7, .5 Assist
PP. 8.2, 5.2, 1.3. - no blocks or steals listed for PP in the site, so not on here

Daniel Oturu College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Daniel Oturu - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Pharrel Payne College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Pharrel Payne - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

PP is a better passer, has as good hands and is already bigger 6’9 255 vs 6’8 240 - Dan was never 6’10 - this is confirmed on his pro reference pages.

Their shots charts couldn't be more different as freshmen; Payne literally only shoots dunks / layups:




Compared to Oturu's shot chart...at least he was shooting...

 

[Wet_Blanket_Guy]

Lmao. Before I say anything, I do think Payne is a good player. But, Oturu can actually shoot outside 5 feet. Comparing FR stats doesn't mean much when Oturu played on a good team, and Payne played on the worst team in my life.

Also, next year at this time, while I hope he will be, Payne will not be a projected early 2nd round pick.

If a dude like Kofi Cockburn can't make the NBA, Payne has no shot.

or Trevion Williams (purdue's recent stud big man who had the following awards while in college):

• Big Ten Sixth Man of the Year (2022)
• First-team All-Big Ten – Coaches (2021)
• Second-team All-Big Ten – Media (2021)
• Third-team All-Big Ten – Media, Coaches (2022)

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

David Roddy attempted 77 3-pointers his freshman year alone. PP attempted zero. Roddy was also a 77% FT shooter his freshman year (PP was 48%).

Someone finally with data vs. puffing out their chest.
Roddy was included as an example of how players can radically improve - later on my post, I stated that IMO I think PP only has to develop a consistent 10-15 game to be the player he can be.

Somebody smarter than I can pull up those fancy shot chart deals, but I'm willing to bet PP's shots from outside 5' amounted to no more than 10% of his total shots. We honestly have no idea where his shot acumen currently is, based on a dearth of real world examples. Rudy Gobert is a legit 7-footer, so not sure how you even compare the two.

Rudy G was included as mentioned because the previous poster bagged on Eddy as an example if a true 5 who can’t play in the NBA- presumptuous farm animal comes to mind, so I provided a specific example of a true 5 who isn’t a 3 point scorer as a specific example of Mr. NBA was wrong.

I'm sorry, I like PP, but this is an absolute odd (and impossible) hill to die on.

It’s Monday, I’m bored and I like to go toe to toe with absolutists.

You’re cool BTW