It’s Time for Coyle to hit F#€k it!

Otis

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
5,585
Reaction score
2,600
Points
113
Just as Deadpool hit rock bottom, Gopher basketball is no longer circling the drain but is in the cess pool.

His great recruiter coach has lost his best recruit and now his highest floor freshman has entered the portal. Battle and Cooper are in the way out and Garcia has got to feel caged.

Rock meet bottom.

Just pull the pin and blow it up!

Get a coach who can actually coach and recruit. Talk those skin flint regents into coughing up for a name who can raise our status and get out of this funk.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,304
Reaction score
11,301
Points
113
Just as Deadpool hit rock bottom, Gopher basketball is no longer circling the drain but is in the cess pool.

His great recruiter coach has lost his best recruit and now his highest floor freshman has entered the portal. Battle and Cooper are in the way out and Garcia has got to feel caged.

Rock meet bottom.

Just pull the pin and blow it up!

Get a coach who can actually coach and recruit. Talk those skin flint regents into coughing up for a name who can raise our status and get out of this funk.
Payne to me has the highest ceiling of any
Freshmen and I can see being in the NBA
 
Last edited:

Bad Gopher

A Loner, A Rebel
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
22,970
Reaction score
9,775
Points
113
The thing is, Johnson is not without his recruiting and coaching abilities. He was always well thought of as an assistant. It's just that you need a chance to develop a way of doing things before you're thrust into a Power 6 program. Throwing an inexperienced person into something like this: I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
1,449
Reaction score
1,121
Points
113
Payne to me has the highest ceiling of ant Freshmen and I can see being in the NBA
He will need to develop PF skills and get much more mobile for the NBA game. The true traditional centers are much larger (and I know he has a large wingspan). I couldn't imaging him guarding the real centers of the NBA.

If Oturu can't play in the NBA, I don't know how Payne can as the era of post only players is long gone.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
11,781
Reaction score
3,185
Points
113
Just as Deadpool hit rock bottom, Gopher basketball is no longer circling the drain but is in the cess pool.

His great recruiter coach has lost his best recruit and now his highest floor freshman has entered the portal. Battle and Cooper are in the way out and Garcia has got to feel caged.

Rock meet bottom.

Just pull the pin and blow it up!

Get a coach who can actually coach and recruit. Talk those skin flint regents into coughing up for a name who can raise our status and get out of this funk.
Yep, we have to end the basketball program. It is and always will be the Boston College of the B1G. It's time to support our Men's and Women's swimming and diving program. Basketball doesn't exist at UMN.
 


Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,304
Reaction score
11,301
Points
113
He will need to develop PF skills and get much more mobile for the NBA game. The true traditional centers are much larger (and I know he has a large wingspan). I couldn't imaging him guarding the real centers of the NBA.

If Oturu can't play in the NBA,
Why is Dan more equipped to do it than Payne?
Please be specific as possible- txs
I don't know how Payne can as the era of post only players is long gone.
 


Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,304
Reaction score
11,301
Points
113
Oturu is much more skilled than Payne is. It's not really close and pretty obvious.
Based on what? Your opinion or stats after Freshman year?

It ain’t the former sparky, per basketball reference -
Dan 10.8, 7, .5 Assist
PP. 8.2, 5.2, 1.3. - no blocks or steals listed for PP in the site, so not on here


PP is a better passer, has as good hands and is already bigger 6’9 255 vs 6’8 240 - Dan was never 6’10 - this is confirmed on his pro reference pages.
 
Last edited:




leib0039

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
1,603
Reaction score
2,649
Points
113
Based on what? Your opinion or stats after Freshman year?

It ain’t the former sparky, per basketball reference -
Dan 10.8, 7, .5 Assist
PP. 8.2, 5.2, 1.3. - no blocks or steals listed for PP in the site, so not on here


PP is a better passer, has as good hands and is already bigger 6’9 255 vs 6’8 240 - Dan was never 6’10 - this is confirmed on his pro reference pages.
You clearly don't watch or understand the NBA. the answer specifically is shooting. His sophomore year Oturu was 37ish % from 3 and 70% free throws. That's the only reason he got drafted.

PP will never be a good shooter or elite nba athlete. Thus he can't make the nba in 2023. In 1983 sure he plays 4 years, gets picked at like 26 and plays 8 years as a banger who doesn't leave the post. There is no room for him in today's nba. It's not a knock, it's the truth. He can be a good to great college player, that does NOTHING for the nba, look no further than edey.
 

Gophers7633

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
1,634
Points
113
Based on what? Your opinion or stats after Freshman year?

It ain’t the former sparky, per basketball reference -
Dan 10.8, 7, .5 Assist
PP. 8.2, 5.2, 1.3. - no blocks or steals listed for PP in the site, so not on here


PP is a better passer, has as good hands and is already bigger 6’9 255 vs 6’8 240 - Dan was never 6’10.

Lmao. Before I say anything, I do think Payne is a good player. But, Oturu can actually shoot outside 5 feet. Comparing FR stats doesn't mean much when Oturu played on a good team, and Payne played on the worst team in my life.

Also, next year at this time, while I hope he will be, Payne will not be a projected early 2nd round pick.

If a dude like Kofi Cockburn can't make the NBA, Payne has no shot.
 


bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
56,214
Reaction score
18,542
Points
113
You clearly don't watch or understand the NBA. the answer specifically is shooting. His sophomore year Oturu was 37ish % from 3 and 70% free throws. That's the only reason he got drafted.

PP will never be a good shooter
How do you know this?
or elite nba athlete. Thus he can't make the nba in 2023. In 1983 sure he plays 4 years, gets picked at like 26 and plays 8 years as a banger who doesn't leave the post. There is no room for him in today's nba. It's not a knock, it's the truth. He can be a good to great college player, that does NOTHING for the nba, look no further than edey.
Players develop. Payne has great raw materials. Let's see how he develops himself. He was far better at the end of this year than at the start of it.
 



Off-GridTNgopher

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
1,623
Reaction score
1,180
Points
113
2 years of absolutely horrid results gets you canned no matter the job... Could you see 3m keeping the CEO if the results equated to what Ben is producing?? No... It's time to make the change.... Time to make it NOW
 

leib0039

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
1,603
Reaction score
2,649
Points
113
I know you don't understand the NBA by the questions you ask 🤣. If you want to know why PP isn't an nba level prospect you are either delusional or have 0 idea how the nba works.

Again, not a slight, I love PP college upside, hes just not an nba guy and never will be.
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
19,205
Reaction score
12,781
Points
113
The odds of Coyle firing Johnson after 2 seasons were always very low.

the odds of Coyle firing Johnson right after he fired Lindsay Whalen are so low as to be almost infinitesimal.

there is no way in hades that Coyle is going to put himself in a situation where he has to hire a new Men's coach and a new Women's coach simultaneously.
 


Ogee Ogilthorpe

Over Macho Grande?
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
19,046
Reaction score
11,729
Points
113
The odds of Coyle firing Johnson after 2 seasons were always very low.

the odds of Coyle firing Johnson right after he fired Lindsay Whalen are so low as to be almost infinitesimal.

there is no way in hades that Coyle is going to put himself in a situation where he has to hire a new Men's coach and a new Women's coach simultaneously.

I agree with this to an extent, if not for different reasons.

Ben has shown enough, more than enough, to get shitcanned by most any other major school in the country.

But yes, it was always extremely unlikely the UofM was going to fire a black HC after 2 years. I doubt the defections and departures, as alarming as they might be, have anything to do with this changing.

I think the Administration's decision on moving forward was almost certainly made long ago, results and defections, mass exodus was likely never going to move the needle much for them. Which is really disappointing. The decision for staying the course has almost nothing to do with merit or the product on the floor. Money is most definitely a significant factor in the entire equation, but certainly not the only one
 

Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,304
Reaction score
11,301
Points
113
You clearly don't watch or understand the NBA. the answer specifically is shooting.
Amazingly you post on the same free website as me - wowza.
His sophomore year Oturu was 37ish % from 3 and 70% free throws. That's the only reason he got drafted.
First round David Roddy says 👋 - ever hear of him.
Per college basketball reference, he was a career .319 from 3
Fr - .195
Soph - .278
Jr - .438

So.one after his first two years could foresee his improvement to his Jr. Year - that’s why absolutes, which you appear to favor, are the dominion of those seek easy answers in my experience.
Roddy isn’t the primary 3 point shooter he is a threat from 3 and that allows for spacing.

Players improve, git it?

PP needs to be competent 10 about 15 feet and that will be sufficient IMO - there is a myth that ever big man has to be able to shoot from 3 - causal fan comment?


PP will never be a good shooter or elite nba athlete. Thus he can't make the nba in 2023. In 1983 sure he plays 4 years, gets picked at like 26 and plays 8 years as a banger who doesn't leave the post. There is no room for him in today's nba. It's not a knock, it's the truth.
Your truth ace - we’ll see.
He can be a good to great college player, that does NOTHING for the nba, look no further than edey.
Wait till he gets into the league Carnac to render judgement.
Rudy G says hi too boo
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
79,311
Reaction score
35,643
Points
113
The odds of Coyle firing Johnson after 2 seasons were always very low.

the odds of Coyle firing Johnson right after he fired Lindsay Whalen are so low as to be almost infinitesimal.

there is no way in hades that Coyle is going to put himself in a situation where he has to hire a new Men's coach and a new Women's coach simultaneously.
He was never going to give Whalen year 6 while not giving Ben year 3, so I'll disagree on point 2. Whatever the baseline odds were, Whalen's firing made it more likely, not less.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,304
Reaction score
11,301
Points
113
Lmao. Before I say anything, I do think Payne is a good player. But, Oturu can actually shoot outside 5 feet. Comparing FR stats doesn't mean much when Oturu played on a good team, and Payne played on the worst team in my life.
Why don’t the stats matter?
If anything PP’s stats would me better in a better team.
Also, next year at this time, while I hope he will be, Payne will not be a projected early 2nd round pick.
So?
Dan needed to stay on school another year, he wasn’t strong enough, his lower half compared to PPs; you block out/post up with your hindquarters.
If a dude like Kofi Cockburn can't make the NBA, Payne has no shot.
disagree because PP is an excellent passer, already, amazing hands and his foul shooting improved noticeably in the last third of the season, per Freshman improve thread.
 

Bad Gopher

A Loner, A Rebel
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
22,970
Reaction score
9,775
Points
113
I agree with this to an extent, if not for different reasons.

Ben has shown enough, more than enough, to get shitcanned by most any other major school in the country.

But yes, it was always extremely unlikely the UofM was going to fire a black HC after 2 years. I doubt the defections and departures, as alarming as they might be, have anything to do with this changing.

I think the Administration's decision on moving forward was almost certainly made long ago, results and defections, mass exodus was likely never going to move the needle much for them. Which is really disappointing. The decision for staying the course has almost nothing to do with merit or the product on the floor. Money is most definitely a significant factor in the entire equation, but certainly not the only one
You would say that a good administrator always has contingency plans, right? Even for the instance where your coach pulled a Brenda and left after one year. Either their contingency plan for this scenario was to ride the thing to the bottom...or maybe they didn't have one.
 

forever a gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,990
Reaction score
2,782
Points
113
Amazingly you post on the same free website as me - wowza.

First round David Roddy says 👋 - ever hear of him.
Per college basketball reference, he was a career .319 from 3
Fr - .195
Soph - .278
Jr - .438

So.one after his first two years could foresee his improvement to his Jr. Year - that’s why absolutes, which you appear to favor, are the dominion of those seek easy answers in my experience.
Roddy isn’t the primary 3 point shooter he is a threat from 3 and that allows for spacing.

Players improve, git it?

PP needs to be competent 10 about 15 feet and that will be sufficient IMO - there is a myth that ever big man has to be able to shoot from 3 - causal fan comment?



Your truth ace - we’ll see.

Wait till he gets into the league Carnac to render judgement.
Rudy G says hi too boo
David Roddy attempted 77 3-pointers his freshman year alone. PP attempted zero. Roddy was also a 77% FT shooter his freshman year (PP was 48%). Somebody smarter than I can pull up those fancy shot chart deals, but I'm willing to bet PP's shots from outside 5' amounted to no more than 10% of his total shots. We honestly have no idea where his shot acumen currently is, based on a dearth of real world examples. Rudy Gobert is a legit 7-footer, so not sure how you even compare the two. I'm sorry, I like PP, but this is an absolute odd (and impossible) hill to die on.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
1,449
Reaction score
1,121
Points
113
Why is Dan more equipped to do it than Payne?
Please be specific as possible- txs
He is much more mobile than Payne, this allows him better opportunity to defend high pick'n'roll, which the NBA is all about...while also being taller than Payne (6'10" to Payne's 6'9"). Further, he has a much softer touch and can extend his range to 20 feet (something Payne cannot do right now). Granted, 20 ft shots in the NBA are bad shots.

Who do you see Payne guarding in the modern NBA? There are no more Gary Trent's. He would be closest to a Miles Turner, but even Miles Turner is 6'11", and shoots ~38% on 3s (90-234 this year so far).
 

Dano564

Fleck Superfan
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
10,135
Reaction score
2,906
Points
113
The thing is, Johnson is not without his recruiting and coaching abilities. He was always well thought of as an assistant. It's just that you need a chance to develop a way of doing things before you're thrust into a Power 6 program. Throwing an inexperienced person into something like this: I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy.

Ben might have a nice recruiting network, but his coaching network is essentially Dave Thorson.
He worked under Pitino and that didn't go well.
Very small network of other coaches he can share player references on. Potential transfers.
Just very ill-prepared and fans are bearing the burden of having to be this patient.
 

Gophers7633

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2017
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
1,634
Points
113
Why don’t the stats matter?
If anything PP’s stats would me better in a better team.

So?
Dan needed to stay on school another year, he wasn’t strong enough, his lower half compared to PPs; you block out/post up with your hindquarters.

disagree because PP is an excellent passer, already, amazing hands and his foul shooting improved noticeably in the last third of the season, per Freshman improve thread.

Stats don't matter because Payne wouldn't have had any stats if he played on the same team Oturu did as a FR. He would have gotten maybe 8-10 mpg if he was lucky. Just for reference the starting 5 on that team was Oturu, Coffey, Murphy, Gabe and McBrayer. That team was loaded compared to this team.

He just doesn't have an NBA game. That's not to say he isn't a good CBB player, because he will be. But there's a reason why guys like Edey, Dickinson, Tshiebwe, and Timme all came back.
 

Spaulding!No!

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Messages
9,420
Reaction score
5,127
Points
113
You would say that a good administrator always has contingency plans, right? Even for the instance where your coach pulled a Brenda and left after one year. Either their contingency plan for this scenario was to ride the thing to the bottom...or maybe they didn't have one.
Ride it to the bottom hahahahaha
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
1,449
Reaction score
1,121
Points
113
Based on what? Your opinion or stats after Freshman year?

It ain’t the former sparky, per basketball reference -
Dan 10.8, 7, .5 Assist
PP. 8.2, 5.2, 1.3. - no blocks or steals listed for PP in the site, so not on here


PP is a better passer, has as good hands and is already bigger 6’9 255 vs 6’8 240 - Dan was never 6’10 - this is confirmed on his pro reference pages.
Their shots charts couldn't be more different as freshmen; Payne literally only shoots dunks / layups:

payne 1.JPG
payne 2.JPG

Compared to Oturu's shot chart...at least he was shooting...

oturu.JPG
oturu 2.JPG
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
1,449
Reaction score
1,121
Points
113
Lmao. Before I say anything, I do think Payne is a good player. But, Oturu can actually shoot outside 5 feet. Comparing FR stats doesn't mean much when Oturu played on a good team, and Payne played on the worst team in my life.

Also, next year at this time, while I hope he will be, Payne will not be a projected early 2nd round pick.

If a dude like Kofi Cockburn can't make the NBA, Payne has no shot.
or Trevion Williams (purdue's recent stud big man who had the following awards while in college):

  • Big Ten Sixth Man of the Year (2022)
  • First-team All-Big Ten – Coaches (2021)
  • Second-team All-Big Ten – Media (2021)
  • Third-team All-Big Ten – Media, Coaches (2022)
 

Gopher_In_NYC

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
16,304
Reaction score
11,301
Points
113
David Roddy attempted 77 3-pointers his freshman year alone. PP attempted zero. Roddy was also a 77% FT shooter his freshman year (PP was 48%).
Someone finally with data vs. puffing out their chest.
Roddy was included as an example of how players can radically improve - later on my post, I stated that IMO I think PP only has to develop a consistent 10-15 game to be the player he can be.
Somebody smarter than I can pull up those fancy shot chart deals, but I'm willing to bet PP's shots from outside 5' amounted to no more than 10% of his total shots. We honestly have no idea where his shot acumen currently is, based on a dearth of real world examples. Rudy Gobert is a legit 7-footer, so not sure how you even compare the two.
Rudy G was included as mentioned because the previous poster bagged on Eddy as an example if a true 5 who can’t play in the NBA- presumptuous farm animal comes to mind, so I provided a specific example of a true 5 who isn’t a 3 point scorer as a specific example of Mr. NBA was wrong.
I'm sorry, I like PP, but this is an absolute odd (and impossible) hill to die on.
It’s Monday, I’m bored and I like to go toe to toe with absolutists.

You’re cool BTW
 




Top Bottom