Is This Ben's Best Ever July Roster?

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I completely disagree. Christie flashed all year long as a HS senior, most thought he could contribute right away. We also had three promising Sophomores in Payne, JOJ, and Carrington along with a newly healthy Ihnen and Fox.

Hawkins and Mitchell were nice additions, but I was much higher on our prospects of competing last year than I am this year.

Sometimes, the sum is greater than the parts

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Disagree to a extent i like how this group skill sets fit together bettercthan in the past and something tells me Mitchell will be a improvement iver Payne and Asuma has the "potential to be a significant upgrade over Hawkins due to he also i is a true pg is bigger and stronger than Hawkins and just as quick ( I think Hawkins saw the writing on the wall when he saw Asuma work out on his recruiting visit and sawxhim in our state tournament. Asuma has the "potential" to be all big ten freshmen and a big difference maker we have not had someone like him on our roster for years and now we 2 in Patterson and Asuma!

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I’ll take quality transfers over quantity any day. You’re only as good as your top 5-6 players, and Ben has consistently shown he only plays around 7-8 players. You can’t tell me at this time that the prospects of our top 5-6 are better than they were last year.

All these covid seniors that were the 2nd-3rd option on their low-major teams aren’t going to make significant leaps in efficiency while playing fewer minutes just because you want to go 10 deep. These are known commodities at this point in their careers. Despite having 7 transfers, Gophers portal class ranks 79th in the country and 14th in the B1G. With the hit we took to our starting 5, that’s just not going to cut it.

I’ll bite

What was it ranked last year?

I specifically remember innumerable guffaws when Hawkins signed.

Invoking Sid, “These geniuses know nothing about college basketball with their “ratings.” Robert Montgomery Knight, my close personal, explained to me that a team can coalesce and overachieve, that’s the beauty of Team Sports. Your Twins in 87 & 91, are prime examples.

Enjoy the hope of the off-season, there’s plenty of time to be disappointed when the games tip off.”

Your credit card has been charged $19.95.

Please do not try this at home. The professionals at Sports Therapists are highly trained in the science of whack-a-moling the negativity out of the cerebral cortex.

Remember we’ve here to -

 

[Gophers7633]

I don't know about best, but it's definitely the deepest. Patterson should be able to take over for Hawkins pretty seamlessly. Charlotte wasn't that much worse than we were last year and he avg 14.5 ppg for them. That's a really quality pick up.

Losing Christie was the biggest loss of the off-season. IMO every other loss is replaceable. And I think CBJ did a good job with it.

We're going to have to play different this year, given the roster. We can't be terrible defensively because I don't think we'll be as good offensively. Garcia and Patterson are going to have to carry the load(approx 35 ppg IMO), and then everyone else chips in for another 30-35 or so.

I'm glad our OOC schedule is better this year. We're extremely old, there's no use in playing OOC creme puffs to "gel" or whatever.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

I’ll take quality transfers over quantity any day. You’re only as good as your top 5-6 players, and Ben has consistently shown he only plays around 7-8 players. You can’t tell me at this time that the prospects of our top 5-6 are better than they were last year.

All these covid seniors that were the 2nd-3rd option on their low-major teams aren’t going to make significant leaps in efficiency while playing fewer minutes just because you want to go 10 deep. These are known commodities at this point in their careers. Despite having 7 transfers, Gophers portal class ranks 79th in the country and 14th in the B1G. With the hit we took to our starting 5, that’s just not going to cut it.

You could be right on the money with your post, but the bolded is incorrect with Patterson and Cochran. They led their teams in FG attempts. Patterson by a huge margin and Cochran in spite of not starting the first 6 games. (Missed almost all of the previous year because of an injury.)

 

[Sane24]

If your key word is "RANKS", then your post probably "STANKS"!
All your internet player rankings come out of some geek's rectum....

 

[short ornery norwegian]

look - I don't think anyone knows for sure until we actually see the team on the court and see how the pieces fit.

from a talent standpoint, I would say that Christie, Payne and Hawkins probably had higher upsides than the players who will be filling those roles. but all three were up and down at times during the season.

so overall, I think the floor has been raised. the players coming off the bench - I hope - will be an improvement over their counterparts last season. for whatever reasons, the Gophers just didn't get much from Carrington, JOJ, Ihnen and Wilson.

So I think - or I hope - that the 24-25 squad will have more balance and much less of a drop-off when they go to the bench.

the question remains - does Ben Johnson use a short bench because he wants to play that way, or does he use a short bench because he doesn't trust the players coming off the bench to do what he wants/needs them to do? the answer to that question may determine whether Ben Johnson is still the coach of the Gophers a year from now.

 

[howeda7]

the question remains - does Ben Johnson use a short bench because he wants to play that way, or does he use a short bench because he doesn't trust the players coming off the bench to do what he wants/needs them to do? the answer to that question may determine whether Ben Johnson is still the coach of the Gophers a year from now.

Keeping 11 guys happy is likely to give Ben anxiety. Perhaps he can consult Rocco Baldelli about bench use. I'm thinking maybe start Garcia only every other game, etc.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

look - I don't think anyone knows for sure until we actually see the team on the court and see how the pieces fit.

from a talent standpoint, I would say that Christie, Payne and Hawkins probably had higher upsides than the players who will be filling those roles. but all three were up and down at times during the season.

so overall, I think the floor has been raised. the players coming off the bench - I hope - will be an improvement over their counterparts last season. for whatever reasons, the Gophers just didn't get much from Carrington, JOJ, Ihnen and Wilson.

So I think - or I hope - that the 24-25 squad will have more balance and much less of a drop-off when they go to the bench.

the question remains - does Ben Johnson use a short bench because he wants to play that way, or does he use a short bench because he doesn't trust the players coming off the bench to do what he wants/needs them to do? the answer to that question may determine whether Ben Johnson is still the coach of the Gophers a year from now.

My take is Ben used a short bench because he lacked enough game ready BIG players. Guys that can compete at that level. Injuries to Fox especially kept him off the floor. I feel that this group of experienced players have enough skills and certainly physicality to earn them ample PT especially on D and the boards. I am intrigued with Cochrane and he along with MM and Patterson will give Ben more options than in the past. Plus add in Asuma who I think will see a good amount of PT. also Ben will now have 4 guys in the 4/5 spots versus maybe 3 in the past. Will Betts earn quality time as well or will he back up at the 3?

Ben choose to bring in a large number of very experienced and mature players. We will see how many can compete in the BIG. My guess is Okudale, Cochrane, Mitchell, Patterson for sure with Edmonds and the kid from Oregon on the bubble followed by Williams. Then add Asuma to the mix and that will be a decent core to work with.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

If your key word is "RANKS", then your post probably "STANKS"!
All your internet player rankings come out of some geek's rectum....

You coached for 65 years?! Nice!

 

[Sane24]

Keeping 11 guys happy is likely to give Ben anxiety.

I don't think Ben cares about making guys happy. If he cared, he would stop using a five-man rotation and get his reserves in the game occasionally.
I think we need to equip his reserves with bull whips so they can show Ben that they are unhappy with sitting on the bench!

 

[Sane24]

You coached for 65 years?! Nice!

Still waiting for a promotion!

 

[SplitDecision]

Just for fun here in the silly season. I compared the scoring rates of recent transfers into MN from bigger D1 schools vs. smaller D1 institutions in hopes of gleaning some insight into scoring expectations. First year after transferring in, with a small sample size of high minute players, from higher D1 schools there was:

Willis (Charleston), Garcia (NC), Cooper (Morehead St.), MMitchell (Pepperdine).

Smaller school transfers: Luke Loewe (Wm & Mary), Stephens (Lafayette), Sutherlin (New Hampshire), Hawkins (Howard).

The first group had scoring totals go UP an average of 13.6% when they transferred to MN. Willis (+16%), Garcia (+41%), Cooper (+7.7%), MMitchell (-10.5%)

The second group from smaller schools had scoring totals drop an average of 16.3%. Loewe (-50%), Stephens (-6.2%), Sutherlin (-5.6%), Hawkins (-3.4%)

The current incoming guys scoring averages at their previous schools:

Patterson (Charlotte) 14.6
Odukale (NMex. St.) 10.7
Rigsby (Oregon) 6.1
Cochran (Toledo) 14.4
Edmonds (UTSA) 7
FMitchell (Canisius) 12.1
Williams (Macalester) 20

 

[Gold Vision]

You could be right on the money with your post, but the bolded is incorrect with Patterson and Cochran. They led their teams in FG attempts. Patterson by a huge margin and Cochran in spite of not starting the first 6 games. (Missed almost all of the previous year because of an injury.)

That’s a good catch. It’s also a good example of how you can’t project the same numbers for every player next year. I view Patterson and Cochran as very similar players, from both a build and usage standpoint. I’m skeptical that they will compliment each other if they’re both on the floor at the same time.

With all 5 guards 6’3” and smaller and none particularly known for their quickness or length, I don’t think we’ll be able to play a lot of 3 guard lineups like we did last year with Christie and Hawkins in the mix. I’d anticipate Ben will eventually settle on a few top performers or go with the hot hand by the B1G season.

 

[ekeg0002]

I voted "no" because I expected much more from last year's team. We didn't know Hawkins would be a revelation but I thought Payne, JOJ, and Carrington would take leaps over their freshman seasons, and we had some interesting transfers coming in.
That said, this may be the deepest team I have seen a Gopher coach put together since Clem, and no doubt the oldest. With all of these players with success at their previous schools, the level of competition in practice and for playing time should really help the team.
In addition, the depth gives you a margin for error considering injuries and foul trouble that we have rarely seen.
So despite my NO vote, I am cautiously optimistic that we'll see overall better results this year.

 

[Sane24]

That’s a good catch. It’s also a good example of how you can’t project the same numbers for every player next year. I view Patterson and Cochran as very similar players, from both a build and usage standpoint. I’m skeptical that they will compliment each other if they’re both on the floor at the same time.

With all 5 guards 6’3” and smaller and none particularly known for their quickness or length, I don’t think we’ll be able to play a lot of 3 guard lineups like we did last year with Christie and Hawkins in the mix. I’d anticipate Ben will eventually settle on a few top performers or go with the hot hand by the B1G season.

IF Betts can defend the wing as some other posters have suggested, that would totally flip the script.
He is 6'8" and Odukale is 6'6" and IF they could actually be a wing tandem, many new possibilities could open up.
IF is a huge key word.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

That’s a good catch. It’s also a good example of how you can’t project the same numbers for every player next year. I view Patterson and Cochran as very similar players, from both a build and usage standpoint. I’m skeptical that they will compliment each other if they’re both on the floor at the same time.

With all 5 guards 6’3” and smaller and none particularly known for their quickness or length, I don’t think we’ll be able to play a lot of 3 guard lineups like we did last year with Christie and Hawkins in the mix. I’d anticipate Ben will eventually settle on a few top performers or go with the hot hand by the B1G season.

The addition of Cochran, to me, makes this coming season much more interesting. Really happy Ben didn’t, for lack of a better word, settle. Glad he used that last scholarship on a player that it appears will contribute. Totally understand about not being able to project how someone might turn out. Who the heck knows either way, good or bad?

 

[MNVCGUY]

IF Betts can defend the wing as some other posters have suggested, that would totally flip the script.
He is 6'8" and Odukale is 6'6" and IF they could actually be a wing tandem, many new possibilities could open up.
IF is a huge key word.

Betts is the massive wild card in this group. Being surrounded by a bunch of experienced guys should help him continue to develop. If he takes a big step up in play he could be a difference maker for this squad. Easy to give up on him based on what he has done over his first 2 years but he is young enough that a breakout could still happen. Would be awesome for everyone involved if this was the year he did.

 

[bga1]

The addition of Cochran, to me, makes this coming season much more interesting. Really happy Ben didn’t, for lack of a better word, settle. Glad he used that last scholarship on a player that it appears will contribute. Totally understand about not being able to project how someone might turn out. Who the heck knows either way, good or bad?

Yep. This is now a bruising squad, physically. Almost like a West Virginia Huggins type team. Only Payne and Fox brought that last year. Now you have Patterson, Mitchell, Fox, Odukale, Cochran and Edmunds that are big dudes that will body you. The two teams are just night and day different. We have no idea whether that means better or not, because quickness may take a hit- especially minus Hawkins

 

[EasyThere Pilgrim]

The problem is...even if we're better this year...other teams might be better too. Everyone might be starting to figure out that developing young players is a waste of time. Other power-conference teams are probably filling their rosters with senior transfers too.

 

[GopherMarroon]

Isaac Asuma and most rookie point guards probably need a season of preparation. Point guard is a tougher position mentally. Part of your job is to assist others, to see the game and react.

Asuma is a talent.

We will see... nobody knows. Win one in the NCAA tournament is all I'm asking.

 

[combes1]

The problem is...even if we're better this year...other teams might be better too. Everyone might be starting to figure out that developing young players is a waste of time. Other power-conference teams are probably filling their rosters with senior transfers too.

Yep. Upperclassmen transfers and top freshmen recruits are ideal. Other recruits can be developed elsewhere. Sucks for midmajors.

Looking around the league, there are a lot of improved rosters who have added transfers.

 

[Ski-U-Ham]

Isaac Asuma and most rookie point guards probably need a season of preparation. Point guard is a tougher position mentally. Part of your job is to assist others, to see the game and react.

Asuma is a talent.

We will see... nobody knows. Win one in the NCAA tournament is all I'm asking.

Tamin Lipsey went into Iowa St. as a freshman and played 30 minutes a game. That probably wasn't Plan A, but when Tyrese Hunter transferred they needed Lipsey to play a lot more. I'm not saying we need to expect 30 minutes from him, but even Holloman played over 8 mpg as a freshman, and that jumped to 26 last year. What are your expectations for Asuma (if you've already stayed them, I apologize)?

 

[Formerswish]

That’s a good catch. It’s also a good example of how you can’t project the same numbers for every player next year. I view Patterson and Cochran as very similar players, from both a build and usage standpoint. I’m skeptical that they will compliment each other if they’re both on the floor at the same time.

With all 5 guards 6’3” and smaller and none particularly known for their quickness or length, I don’t think we’ll be able to play a lot of 3 guard lineups like we did last year with Christie and Hawkins in the mix. I’d anticipate Ben will eventually settle on a few top performers or go with the hot hand by the B1G season.

It will be interesting to see how they complement each other. We've been used to teams that have point guards who command the ball for a huge percentage of the time: Hawkins, Carr, Nate Mason..Now will Patterson be the one?

I can see a likely scenario in which Patterson, Cochran, and Mitchell are on the floor together (and perhaps Asuma, who may surprise some people) with Garcia and Frank Mitchell, but that depends on:

• How they match up defensively with a team-what size does a team present at the "3?"
• Does Odukale play well enough to keep minutes and reduce the minutes of a smaller guard?
• Does Johnson expand his number of "players he trusts" to 8-10? (He'll have a very unhappy bench if he doesn't)

This is a team that will be physical and should be a lot better defensively. And as others have said here, they won't be the quickest team around. But this will be a great test to see if Johnson can take a completely different group and turn them into an effective team.

And I wouldn't have said this a couple of months ago, but I think this will be an interesting season that's worth watching. It's trying to, but the NIL hasn't sucked all of the interest out of college ball for me yet..

 

[GopherMarroon]

• Does Johnson expand his number of "players he trusts" to 8-10? (He'll have a very unhappy bench if he doesn't)

Yea, down the stretch last season Johnson rode his best players. That number stopped short and wore them out. I don't blame Johnson if he didn't have confidence in the next guy up.

Hopefully now there's two more next up.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Yea, down the stretch last season Johnson rode his best players. That number stopped short and wore them out. I don't blame Johnson if he didn't have confidence in the next guy up.

Hopefully now there's two more next up.

Hopefully the maturity and experience on this roster will keep guys from being malcontents like JOJ and Carrington reportedly were.

Will be interesting to see how the playing time shakes out. Would not surprise me if we see multiple different player combinations over the course of the season.

 

[Dave H]

It doesn't matter what the quality of talent is. Based on the last two years, Ben runs a 7 to 9 person rotation in games. He grants playing time to those he deems worthy, which alienates, disheartens and demotivates players 10 through 12. We saw it with Carrington, Payne and even Christie. The closer they got to the bottom of the playing time list, the more dissatisfied they were.

Welcome to the new NCAA MBB World.

Yeah Payne and Christie never played...did you watch any games at all last year or are you just throwing out BS to fill your narrative?

 

[GopherMarroon]

Hopefully the maturity and experience on this roster will keep guys from being malcontents like JOJ and Carrington reportedly were.

Will be interesting to see how the playing time shakes out. Would not surprise me if we see multiple different player combinations over the course of the season.

JOJ's last season with the Gophers will always be a mystery to me. Maybe he's just not that good. He landed with 13-19 Cal in the Smacked-12. He'll get a great education out of it.

 

[EasyThere Pilgrim]

JOJ's last season with the Gophers will always be a mystery to me. Maybe he's just not that good. He landed with 13-19 Cal in the Smacked-12. He'll get a great education out of it.

Education being a factor isn't brought up as much anymore. But as someone who took a challenging major at Minnesota, I used to find it laughable when it was. As if a school like California would teach the laws of physics any differently than any other school.

Although with Newsome & that crowd, nothing would surprise me.

 

[Sane24]

Education being a factor isn't brought up as much anymore. But as someone who took a challenging major at Minnesota, I used to find it laughable when it was. As if a school like California would teach the laws of physics any differently than any other school.

The laws of physics don't vary, but the job offers do vary if you graduate from California/Harvard/Stanford vs Minnesota/Iowa/Nebraska.