Is the Villa 7 Getting in the Way of the Coaching Search?

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Is anyone else worried that Teague/Ellis are so personally invested in the Villa 7 that they are limiting the coaching search pool to only those involved in their program? I worry that they will not stray away from any of these coaches for fear that it will diminish the perceived effectiveness of Villa 7.
I think Teague could see it as an indictment of his program to hire outside of the pool that has been assembled. This allegiance, although beneficial in some ways, is limiting in other ways. Are we missing out on important candidates to promote the Villa 7?
 

Possibly, I mean, I really can't see them hiring Flip until at least the cream of the Villa 7 crop is exhausted. Which is unfortunate in my opinion because Flip is/was my second choice. Wouldn't it be unfortunate if one of the really big selling points on Teague, his connection to Villa 7, ends up being a hindrance?
 


I think this is a very fair question to ask. And no doubt it has to come into play. Teague/Ellis fancy themselves as basketball guys and have built their career progression on the notion that they can hire up and coming talent. Hiring a guy like Flip is counter-intuitive to that.
 



I'll just say this. We were down on our previous coach to some extent because of his inflexibility and stubbornness. It would be a heck of a deal if we were struggling with the same factors in hiring his replacement.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I'll just say this. We were down on our previous coach to some extent because of his inflexibility and stubbornness. It would be a heck of a deal if we were struggling with the same factors in hiring his replacement.
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I'd disagree but I saw what you did to Captain Kirk when he got out of line.
 

2nd Degree Gopher said:
Agreed, we hired him because of that program and to make this hire.
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So I think you just said YES there. You are saying we hired him because of that program. Therefore to do his job he gets his hire through that program. The question wasn't whether Teague can make a good hire- the question was whether the Villa 7 connection is limiting the search to eliminate non-Villa 7 type coaches- IE Flip.
 

bga1 said:
So I think you just said YES there. You are saying we hired him because of that program. Therefore to do his job he gets his hire through that program. The question wasn't whether Teague can make a good hire- the question was whether the Villa 7 connection is limiting the search to eliminate non-Villa 7 type coaches- IE Flip.
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Right. To clarify, the point is not that they can't make a good hire using Villa 7 coaches, its that they could be missing out on good coaches because they will only hire within Villa 7.
I just don't think it is wise to shrink the pool to fulfill a personal investment.
 



Seriously, you're worried about the fact that our administration is so dialed in to college basketball coaching circles that they can't see the forest for the trees? This is about Flip, isn't it? If you want to see the program full of Chip Armelins and Mo Walkers hire Flip.
 

bga1 said:
So I think you just said YES there. You are saying we hired him because of that program. Therefore to do his job he gets his hire through that program. The question wasn't whether Teague can make a good hire- the question was whether the Villa 7 connection is limiting the search to eliminate non-Villa 7 type coaches- IE Flip.
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I agreed with Madtown. I don’t think it’s an impediment to make the best hire. Norwood has developed this network and I think he will (and certainly should) use those connections to make the hire. In the end, my guess is that his top choices are people from within that program, but I don’t think Norwood has to hire somebody from Villa 7 to “justify” his own hiring or the V7 program. If the result of the search is that he hires someone from outside V7 because he determines that person is the best fit, than so be it. I don’t think he’d eliminate Flip because he’s not part of V7, nor do I think it would be in the best interests of Teague or the U to do so.
 

easy said:
I just don't think it is wise to shrink the pool to fulfill a personal investment.
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I agree with that sentiment. If it turns out that no one outside V7 was considered, than I think that's a mistake. But I don't think we'll ever really know that.
 




gophmeister said:
Seriously, you're worried about the fact that our administration is so dialed in to college basketball coaching circles that they can't see the forest for the trees? This is about Flip, isn't it?
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It is partially about Flip, but not solely so. It's about finding the best possible candidate. You're right though, they are very dialed in and will hopefully be able to see the whole picture.


If you want to see the program full of Chip Armelins and Mo Walkers hire Flip.
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What? Care to explain?
 

easy said:
Is anyone else worried that Teague/Ellis are so personally invested in the Villa 7 that they are limiting the coaching search pool to only those involved in their program? I worry that they will not stray away from any of these coaches for fear that it will diminish the perceived effectiveness of Villa 7.
I think Teague could see it as an indictment of his program to hire outside of the pool that has been assembled. This allegiance, although beneficial in some ways, is limiting in other ways. Are we missing out on important candidates to promote the Villa 7?
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YES.

For Christ Sakes, hire Flip and move on.

All these names we could never get or would not want is a waste of bandwidth.
 


It's disturbing how many Flip-anatics we have on this board. What makes you convinced that he will be a successful college coach? Is it just that you have convinced yourself that all of the Big 3 will commit as soon as he's signed his contract? What happens when none of them commit and Flip is learning to recruit on the fly? We will be looking for a new coach in 3-4 years.
 

I think Flip would be a great coach for the Gophers and I think he would be able to recruit just fine. That being said I am not sure this is his main goal. I think he wants back with the Wolves as the GM. Flips systems would b perfect for the college game. He has shown the ability to develope players like KG, Wally Szerbiak, and Stephon Marbury had his most effective years as an all around point guard with the Wolves. His system is also point guard friendly which is great at the college level.
 

Seems like there are about 500 coaches in or tied to Villa 7. Just because Flip isn't a Villa 7 doesn't mean that Teague is being stubborn.

If they grab a no name assistant from somewhere I'd be fine with that. I doubt anyone at VCU was excited when they first signed an unknown Shaka Smart, but Teague and Mike Ellis have found good coaches before. I give them a good odds they could find another as well. They are as plugged in as most when it comes to finding coaches, whether experienced or no-name.
 

Of those talked about, the Bama and the Gulf Coast guys are the only two I don't want. Teague knows what he is doing. I want Flip, but Teague knows best and will make a winning hire and I will smile and send more money for the practice facility. Hope everyone else does too.
 

Flip hasn't coached at the college level in almost 30 years. That means he hasn't recruited in 30 years. He probably doesn't know very many college assistants. A Flip staff would be his son and a bunch of retreads or no names, so basically Tubby 2.0. As for kids being impressed by Flip's NBA experience, no one outside of the Twin Cities even knows who Flip Saunders is. People act as if he had Phil Jackson level success and his name is so big recruits will flock to him. That's a bunch of malarkey. With all due respect to Flip he should stay in the pros.
 

diehard said:
Of those talked about, the Bama and the Gulf Coast guys are the only two I don't want. Teague knows what he is doing. I want Flip, but Teague knows best and will make a winning hire and I will smile and send more money for the practice facility. Hope everyone else does too.
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I think Enfield a FGCU is actually a very good coach. Someone said from watching the tourney teams, the offensive spacing and coaching was better than any coach they saw in the tournament.

I'd be for that. Don't know why he would like Minnesota though.
Good education system for the kids?
 

Face The Facts said:
Seems like there are about 500 coaches in or tied to Villa 7. Just because Flip isn't a Villa 7 doesn't mean that Teague is being stubborn.

If they grab a no name assistant from somewhere I'd be fine with that. I doubt anyone at VCU was excited when they first signed an unknown Shaka Smart, but Teague and Mike Ellis have found good coaches before. I give them a good odds they could find another as well. They are as plugged in as most when it comes to finding coaches, whether experienced or no-name.
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Face the facts, Face The Facts, this is a tough job for an up and comer. We need a new practice facility- some say the lack of it caused Tubby Smith to fail. We need to get one or more of the big three recruits locally. We need traction with the fans. The right way to do this thing is to go "all in" right now. When Tubby was fired I was expecting that Teague had a plan to make a big splash. Here's the new coach, here's the plans for the practice facility, we have garnered major donor support to get this coach and also to build the new facility by Fall 2014. Now we are going to go out and sell the best kids in the country- some of whom are in our back yard... to bring this program to a new level. We are committed.

I'm not saying Teague won't do all of this- I am saying that this is the kind of play I'm expecting. If you pay a big name $2.5 million to leave you don't fill the job with a long term up and comer. That's small ball. It doesn't have to be Flip for me but it does have to be a wow.
 

gophmeister said:
Flip hasn't coached at the college level in almost 30 years. That means he hasn't recruited in 30 years. He probably doesn't know very many college assistants. A Flip staff would be his son and a bunch of retreads or no names, so basically Tubby 2.0. As for kids being impressed by Flip's NBA experience, no one outside of the Twin Cities even knows who Flip Saunders is. People act as if he had Phil Jackson level success and his name is so big recruits will flock to him. That's a bunch of malarkey. With all due respect to Flip he should stay in the pros.
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I think you are wrong about Flip not having the contacts for good assistants. However, if you are right- then that would be a great use for Villa 7 wouldn't it?? It's completely ridiculous to say that Flip A) can't coach college ball (Fred Hoiberg?) or B) can't find good assistants. You could get a great staff of young assistants looking for a succession possibility ala Painter at Purdue.
 

bga1 said:
I think you are wrong about Flip not having the contacts for good assistants. However, if you are right- then that would be a great use for Villa 7 wouldn't it?? It's completely ridiculous to say that Flip A) can't coach college ball (Fred Hoiberg?) or B) can't find good assistants. You could get a great staff of young assistants looking for a succession possibility ala Painter at Purdue.
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I am clueless here and admitting it, but some of the arguments against Flip border on the absurd. Freddy is essentially the Iowa State version of Flip. No college experience (Flip does but a long time ago), mostly pro background, revered locally, and "unknown" nationally. There is no such thing as a sure thing, but I am with you that of realistic names bandied about, Flip's is the one that can make the splash, and I simply cannot see it for a number of reasons, going the way of Monson if we hire him. To be honest, I can see it going that way possibly with Grant or an unknown. You can't say Flip is a "no way" candidate when you have someone three hours down the road with the same profile who is succeeding.
 

gophmeister said:
Flip hasn't coached at the college level in almost 30 years. That means he hasn't recruited in 30 years. He probably doesn't know very many college assistants. A Flip staff would be his son and a bunch of retreads or no names, so basically Tubby 2.0. As for kids being impressed by Flip's NBA experience, no one outside of the Twin Cities even knows who Flip Saunders is. People act as if he had Phil Jackson level success and his name is so big recruits will flock to him. That's a bunch of malarkey. With all due respect to Flip he should stay in the pros.
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I missed the report where Flip announced what his staff would be, so maybe they really ARE retreads and no names. Who is on his list?
 

Holy Man said:
I am clueless here and admitting it, but some of the arguments against Flip border on the absurd. Freddy is essentially the Iowa State version of Flip. No college experience (Flip does but a long time ago), mostly pro background, revered locally, and "unknown" nationally. There is no such thing as a sure thing, but I am with you that of realistic names bandied about, Flip's is the one that can make the splash, and I simply cannot see it for a number of reasons, going the way of Monson if we hire him. To be honest, I can see it going that way possibly with Grant or an unknown. You can't say Flip is a "no way" candidate when you have someone three hours down the road with the same profile who is succeeding.
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For every successful Fred Hoiberg, there are multiple guys( clyde drexler, sidney lowe, isaiah thomas, etc.) who failed miserably as coaches due to lack of experience at that level.
 

Just because something worked in Ames doesn't mean it's going to work here. Flip is like 25 years older than Hoiberg and a lot Hoiberg's success can be attributed to him getting one spectacular year out of Royce White. No Royce White and the Mayor doesn't jump start that program. I realize Flip is popular because everyone knows who is, but hiring him would be for all the wrong reasons.
 

GopherGod said:
For every successful Fred Hoiberg, there are multiple guys( clyde drexler, sidney lowe, isaiah thomas, etc.) who failed miserably as coaches due to lack of experience at that level.
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Points well taken. No assurances on anything, but I think of the Grant or Flip scenario, Grant is the higher risk.
 

We are only 72 hours into the coaching search and people are already wondering if Villa 7 may be getting in the way. *Shakes head*
 

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