Is the 24-25 roster our version of 'Moneyball'?

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Costa Rican Gopher

Costa Rican Gopher

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Is the 2024-2025 roster our version of 'Moneyball'? i.e. We can't afford to replace players like Christie, Payne, Hawkins & JoJ, but we can try to replace their production in the aggregate with multiple, lower priced players?
 



Every year. Minnesota has the lowest bball budget in the big ten combined with a middling to low nil.
 



GopherOhana said:
Every year. Minnesota has the lowest bball budget in the big ten combined with a middling to low nil.
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Just curious, where did you get this data and if possible please post a link or links. Thanks.
 

Budget per sportico. Posted the url in another thread and can post here when I get back to my macbook

www.sportico.com

Sportico’s Intercollegiate Finance Database

Sportico is maintaining an interactive, real-time database that tracks the official balance sheets of public FBS university athletic departments.
www.sportico.com www.sportico.com


per sportico bball budgets:
Illinois $14M
Indiana $17M
Iowa $10M
Maryland $12M
Michigan $12M
MSU $17M
Nebraska $10M
OSU $14M
Oregon $12M
PSU $12M
Purdue $10M
Rutgers $14M
UCLA $14M
Washington $11M
Wisconsin $12M

Minnesota $8.6M

USC and NW are private and don't release financials
 
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Costa Rican Gopher said:
Is the 2024-2025 roster our version of 'Moneyball'? i.e. We can't afford to replace players like Christie, Payne, Hawkins & JoJ, but we can try to replace their production in the aggregate with multiple, lower priced players?
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I guess that's the hopium Ben has to sell. Hawkins, Christie and Payne were 3 of your 4 best players and have been replaced by lesser talented players. Depth can offset it but only so much. Especially if you only want to use 7 guys.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Is the 2024-2025 roster our version of 'Moneyball'? i.e. We can't afford to replace players like Christie, Payne, Hawkins & JoJ, but we can try to replace their production in the aggregate with multiple, lower priced players?
Click to expand...

Lol well money isn't the reason JoJ left. We definitely could afford him.
 




howeda7 said:
I guess that's the hopium Ben has to sell. Hawkins, Christie and Payne were 3 of your 4 best players and have been replaced by lesser talented players. Depth can offset it but only so much. Especially if you only want to use 7 guys.
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I like all three of those guys. Yet when we had them a lot of us, present company included, complained that there was no identity. Hawkins while a great facilitator was never going to be a good defender because of how small he is and he couldn't finish at the rim. Christie had a pure shot but he was not a good defender and also couldn't finish at the rim. Payne is a guy I really liked on the defensive end but offensively he was limited to a couple feet and he a Garcia seemed clunky together. What we had got us to 9-11 in the Big Ten.

Can Ben take a different mix of guys, many of whom have a past of being good defensive players and mold them into a squad with an identity that wins more games? Okudale, Rigsby, Patterson, Frank Mitchell, Asuma and Edmunds might be a more physical and defensive minded group than the dearly departed Gophers. I am not saying Ben will- the question is can he do it?

I always go back to this: During the Monson era he had Kris Humphries a star offensive player who went NBA. I think they won one or two Big Ten games that year. Then, under the same coach and with the help of Molinari....without the superstar...they took ARob, Coleman, Lawson, Hagen and Grier ( a juco transfer) and went to the NCAAs. Nobody would have predicted that. Its not always the star talent that gets you there.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Lol well money isn't the reason JoJ left. We definitely could afford him.
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Ryan James says JoJ got somewhere around 500k from Cal. No way could we match that.

* Edit: Leaving this post up, but acknowledging I made a mistake. JoJ is getting six figures this season at Cal, but not 500k.
 
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Costa Rican Gopher said:
Ryan James says JoJ got somewhere around 500k from Cal. No way could we match that.
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I believe a lot of the big money stories- such as Payne's. JOJ? That one I don't believe for a second. Even in this inflated market, anything over 50k is a lot. He has great raw ability, that I will say.
 

I mean, basically we are a mid major now. And will be for the foreseeable future.
Mid-majors can have good years and do sometimes. I just wonder how long the Big Ten will allow us to stay in the conference. PJ is our best hope I guess. Our Bball program is a net negative to the conference for certain.
 


bga1 said:
I believe a lot of the big money stories- such as Payne's. JOJ? That one I don't believe for a second. Even in this inflated market, anything over 50k is a lot. He has great raw ability, that I will say.
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Ryan James says it's around 500k. He says Cal has lot's of money & overpaid, but that's what JoJ got.

Kind of a separate issue from JoJ's rumored pay day, but many fans on this board are under the false assumption that JoJ didn't play more down the stretch because he wasn't playing well. It even became a popular theory here that it was his defense that kept him off the court. Between Ryan James & a few posters on 247 who have some pretty specific details, it sounds like what actually happened is that after sort of emerging as our best player while Garcia was injured, and Payne was limited with the bad back, JoJ got his minutes cut when they returned, & Fox got more comfortable. He didn't handle it well at all. Allegedly he announced in locker room after a game that he was transferring out. Sounds like CBJ lost him, and couldn't reel him back in. Then his roommate Braeden Carrington started losing minutes as Christie emerged, and needed to step away from the team for "mental health" reasons. I have my suspicions about that, and it's interesting to note CBJ told him he wasn't welcome back. Pharrell Payne, who was their 3rd roommate decided to transfer after the season. Ryan James pointed out several times down the stretch run that JoJ would come in, get 4-5 minutes in the 1st half, play very well & then never play again the rest of the game. He suggested way back then, that whatever the problem was, it wasn't basketball related. Sounds like there may have even been an incident during a practice where Fox & JoJ had some words about JoJ's attitude as well?

* Edit: Leaving this post up, but acknowledging I made a mistake. JoJ is getting six figures this season at Cal, but not 500k.
 
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Costa Rican Gopher said:
Following Announcement of Move to ACC, Cal's NIL Program Raises $1.2M in 4 days
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That's for football too.

So you think Cal has enough money to give JOJ nearly half of what they raised for both sports at that time? If they have 500k to give to JOJ, then they should be loading up with 4* and 5* recruits, right?

Oh wait, they have none. Just a bunch of middling 3*s like the Gophers.

Lay off the Ryan James pipe. There are posters on this site that have more knowledge then him.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Ryan James says it's around 500k. He says Cal has lot's of money & overpaid, but that's what JoJ got.

Kind of a separate issue from JoJ's rumored pay day, but many fans on this board are under the false assumption that JoJ didn't play more down the stretch because he wasn't playing well. It even became a popular theory here that it was his defense that kept him off the court. Between Ryan James & a few posters on 247 who have some pretty specific details, it sounds like what actually happened is that after sort of emerging as our best player while Garcia was injured, and Payne was limited with the bad back, JoJ got his minutes cut when they returned, & Fox got more comfortable. He didn't handle it well at all. Allegedly he announced in locker room after a game that he was transferring out. Sounds like CBJ lost him, and couldn't reel him back in. Then his roomate Braeden Carrington started losing minutes as Christie emerged, and needed to step away from the team for "mental health" reasons. I have my suspicions about that, and it's interesting to note CBJ told him he wasn't welcome back. Pharrell Payne, who was their 3rd roommate decided to transfer after the season. Ryan James pointed out several times down the stretch run that JoJ would come in, get 4-5 minutes in the 1st half, play very well & then never play again the rest of the game. He suggested way back then, that whatever the problem was, it wasn't basketball related. Sounds like there may have even been an incident during a practice where Fox & JoJ had some words about JoJ's attitude as well?
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None of this surprises me. JoJ & CBJ had very poor body language the last few games. It appeared like they were just playing out the year...
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Ryan James says it's around 500k. He says Cal has lot's of money & overpaid, but that's what JoJ got.

Kind of a separate issue from JoJ's rumored pay day, but many fans on this board are under the false assumption that JoJ didn't play more down the stretch because he wasn't playing well. It even became a popular theory here that it was his defense that kept him off the court. Between Ryan James & a few posters on 247 who have some pretty specific details, it sounds like what actually happened is that after sort of emerging as our best player while Garcia was injured, and Payne was limited with the bad back, JoJ got his minutes cut when they returned, & Fox got more comfortable. He didn't handle it well at all. Allegedly he announced in locker room after a game that he was transferring out. Sounds like CBJ lost him, and couldn't reel him back in. Then his roomate Braeden Carrington started losing minutes as Christie emerged, and needed to step away from the team for "mental health" reasons. I have my suspicions about that, and it's interesting to note CBJ told him he wasn't welcome back. Pharrell Payne, who was their 3rd roommate decided to transfer after the season. Ryan James pointed out several times down the stretch run that JoJ would come in, get 4-5 minutes in the 1st half, play very well & then never play again the rest of the game. He suggested way back then, that whatever the problem was, it wasn't basketball related. Sounds like there may have even been an incident during a practice where Fox & JoJ had some words about JoJ's attitude as well?
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I saw with my own eyes that JOJ, considering his ability, was not a good rebounder or defender nor did he play with much energy unless he had the ball in his hands. Then he would light up and you knew he was going to shoot or drive. Great natural ability but good luck to him and Cal working it out together.

I think Carrington's mental breakdown started right after Cam Christie got his first start 12-6-23.
Carrington didn't play after the 12-9 game until January 4th. From there Christie became a featured player and Carrington a role player. His minutes didn't drop that badly once he returned but he just wasn't much a part of the offense.

I really believe Payne left for the cash and I can't blame him. Did the other stuff help lead him in that direction? Maybe.
 

row19gopher said:
None of this surprises me. JoJ & CBJ had very poor body language the last few games. It appeared like they were just playing out the year...
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JOJ had 10 points and precious few minutes over the last 12 games. He quit and then the coach quit on him.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
Ryan James says it's around 500k. He says Cal has lot's of money & overpaid, but that's what JoJ got.

Ryan James pointed out several times down the stretch run that JoJ would come in, get 4-5 minutes in the 1st half, play very well & then never play again the rest of the game.
JOJ NEVER PLAYED VERY WELL!
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Costa Rican Gopher said:
Ryan James says JoJ got somewhere around 500k from Cal. No way could we match that.
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I'd feel pretty good that JOJ did not get 500K from Cal. I'd imagine Cal is working with a similar budget to us. Maybe slightly higher.

Unless Maddog has really boosted that NIL, which could be.
 

bga1 said:
Can Ben take a different mix of guys, many of whom have a past of being good defensive players and mold them into a squad with an identity that wins more games? Okudale, Rigsby, Patterson, Frank Mitchell, Asuma and Edmunds might be a more physical and defensive minded group than the dearly departed Gophers. I am not saying Ben will- the question is can he do it?

I always go back to this: During the Monson era he had Kris Humphries a star offensive player who went NBA. I think they won one or two Big Ten games that year. Then, under the same coach and with the help of Molinari....without the superstar...they took ARob, Coleman, Lawson, Hagen and Grier ( a juco transfer) and went to the NCAAs. Nobody would have predicted that. Its not always the star talent that gets you there.
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Can he? I suppose. Is there any evidence he will? Not based on the past 3 years. They're not adding a Molinari to the coaching staff as far as I know. They're thrilled with the current staff. They like the current system, which has not resulted in great defense being played. Hoping for either to change seems futile. So it will be on the new players to somehow outperform their more talented predecessors.
 

from what I've read about Cal's bball NIL, its currently probably about $500K total.

joj would have to split that with BJ Omot and his other Cal team mates
 
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matt said:
No, because Oakland was actually good. A better comparison would be the 1993-2012 Pittsburgh Pirates. They were just a shitty team with a small payroll that had a losing record 20 years in a row.
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Costa Rican Gopher said:
Is the 2024-2025 roster our version of 'Moneyball'? i.e. We can't afford to replace players like Christie, Payne, Hawkins & JoJ, but we can try to replace their production in the aggregate with multiple, lower priced players?
Click to expand...


IMG_4465.jpeg
 

matt said:
No, because Oakland was actually good. A better comparison would be the 1993-2012 Pittsburgh Pirates. They were just a shitty team with a small payroll that had a losing record 20 years in a row.
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No. Oakland wasn't good before that season started.
 

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