Is it fair that Notre Dame is independent?

[nitramnaed]

Same reason navy wanted to play in the west when they were in the American
They see themselves as a national university

+

They have a natural rival in the division as opposed to a division with Mn-IA-Ne


Though balance isn’t as important in a larger league with no divisions…I don’t think the big ten would want them in a group with Ohio state and Michigan as it reduces the chances of two big brands being the top two. I think Notre Dame would either go west or east. Not the middle if they came.

A lot likely depends on who is in it though.
For instance
I think Nebraska would be okay going west of a team like Colorado was added but wouldn’t like it if Colorado wasn’t added.


Also, these wouldn’t be divisions. They’d just be scheduling groups.

Be that it may. I still don't think ND will agree to a division placement in the west. Sure, USC is a traditional rival but that doesn't mean it can't be protected like they have done with others in the past.
BTW. Do we care what Nebraska thinks?

 

[Some guy]

Be that it may. I still don't think ND will agree to a division placement in the west. Sure, USC is a traditional rival but that doesn't mean it can't be protected like they have done with others in the past.
BTW. Do we care what Nebraska thinks?

In a conference that big it’s either going to be the 2-3 protect model we currently have or it’s going to be scheduling groups

If the conference expands to 20 and does scheduling groups there won’t be room outside of the groups for locked rivalries if the schedule is still 9 games

Notre dame has more rivals than anyone possibly…but USC is the only big ten team they play every year

 

[short ornery norwegian]

it's all about the money.

Notre Dame reportedly receives $50-million a year from NBC for football. ND also receives roughly $17-million in revenue through the ACC.

that's $67-million in revenue. which is comparable with what B1G teams receive and better than SEC teams.

as long as Notre Dame can make that kind of money as an independent, there is no real reason to join a conference.

 

[dinkything]

Okay. You're so hot to get FSU in the B1G, you tell me, and everyone on this board the reasons they should be in the conference.

I never said I was “so hot to get FSU in the B1G” …

I said look for an announcement later this year… that Notre Dame and FSU will become the B1G’s newest members.

If my info is not accurate, then I will come back and admit I had it wrong.

Why are ND and FSU slated to be the next two? Because, in part, the B1G’s media partners have determined they will be able to ‘grow the pie’ like no others could. That’s more money in the Gophers’ coffers, and in all other Conference Members’ coffers as well, at least in the near term.

Academics and research are a key part of the equation, too. FSU is headed in the right direction.

 

[#2Gopher]

I just don't like the fact that Norte Dame can choose to play in a conference in some sports, but not Football. The Big 10 wouldn't allow the WCHA to exist as we know it. The WCHA was great for traveling (saving money) and was a very spirited conference. Something isn't right.

 

[nitramnaed]

it's all about the money.

Notre Dame reportedly receives $50-million a year from NBC for football. ND also receives roughly $17-million in revenue through the ACC.

that's $67-million in revenue. which is comparable with what B1G teams receive and better than SEC teams.

as long as Notre Dame can make that kind of money as an independent, there is no real reason to join a conference.

I've always used the AAU reason for ND not ever allowed to be in the conference and have aways been mocked by people being told that would make no difference as the B1G would piss their pant to get them in. My response was B1G AD's might not care, but B1G Presidents do. Well now they are AAU and are open to be invited, and like you, I don't think they will join because of the football revenue.
Made sense for them for Hockey, as the B1G needed more teams and the ACC couldn't provide.

 

[dinkything]

it's all about the money.

Notre Dame reportedly receives $50-million a year from NBC for football. ND also receives roughly $17-million in revenue through the ACC.

that's $67-million in revenue. which is comparable with what B1G teams receive and better than SEC teams.

as long as Notre Dame can make that kind of money as an independent, there is no real reason to join a conference.

The days of Notre Dame making this kind of money as an ‘independent’ will soon be over, and they know it.

The good news is they will be able to make more in the B1G

 

[Unregistered User]

nm

 

[Some guy]

ND had to make the championship to get that $20mm payout.

Their contract with NBC pays them $22mm/year.

Every B10 team got around $50mm/year in 2022 and I don’t think the numbers have changed much.

The numbers for the big ten have gone up substantially

When they signed the new TV deals they were saying 80-100 per team

Big Ten completes $7B deal with Fox, CBS, NBC

The Big Ten has completed a new seven-year media rights agreement with Fox, CBS and NBC that is set to bring in more than $7 billion to one of the nation's most powerful athletic conferences.

www.espn.com

 

[Unregistered User]

The numbers for the big ten have gone up substantially

When they signed the new TV deals they were saying 80-100 per team

Big Ten completes $7B deal with Fox, CBS, NBC

The Big Ten has completed a new seven-year media rights agreement with Fox, CBS and NBC that is set to bring in more than $7 billion to one of the nation's most powerful athletic conferences.

www.espn.com

Yeah, I was looking at some older numbers from 2022 or so.

 

[nitramnaed]

I never said I was “so hot to get FSU in the B1G” …

I said look for an announcement later this year… that Notre Dame and FSU will become the B1G’s newest members.

If my info is not accurate, then I will come back and admit I had it wrong.

Why are ND and FSU slated to be the next two? Because, in part, the B1G’s media partners have determined they will be able to ‘grow the pie’ like no others could. That’s more money in the Gophers’ coffers, and in all other Conference Members’ coffers as well, at least in the near term.

Academics and research are a key part of the equation, too. FSU is headed in the right direction

Fair enough. You seem to have some kind of inside info or it's just speculation on your part.
Notre Dame aside. I don't see how FSU "grows the Pie like no others could"

To anyone on this board:

What would Florida State bring to the B1G that would benefit it? I don't see any benefit to the B1G to reach done in the panhandle of Florida unless they have an overall plan for expansion into the southeast. (SEC country) I know there's been talk about North Carolina and Duke, but this is a long way from there.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Fair enough. You seem to have some kind of inside info or it's just speculation on your part.
Notre Dame aside. I don't see how FSU "grows the Pie like no others could"

To anyone on this board:

What would Florida State bring to the B1G that would benefit it? I don't see any benefit to the B1G to reach done in the panhandle of Florida unless they have an overall plan for expansion into the southeast. (SEC country) I know there's been talk about North Carolina and Duke, but this is a long way from there.

well, if Fla State joined the B1G, that means BTN gets more revenue because games would be in-market in the Talahassee market area. also more media coverage of the B1G conference could help with recognition and recruiting for B1G teams. and BTN and the other B1G media partners would have another team in the Eastern time zone for the early TV window. it could also enhance the idea of the B1G as a "national" conference, as opposed to the SEC which is still more of a regional conference.

I suppose that's something.

 

[GopherGrit]

it's all about the money.

Notre Dame reportedly receives $50-million a year from NBC for football. ND also receives roughly $17-million in revenue through the ACC.

that's $67-million in revenue. which is comparable with what B1G teams receive and better than SEC teams.

as long as Notre Dame can make that kind of money as an independent, there is no real reason to join a conference.

I think they have also said two pillars are: 1) if no national TV partner will televise their home football games, or 2) they have no path into the playoff because of not being in a conference.

Guessing the latter would be more likely than too little money or no TV partner, and right now they seem to have a reasonably secure path.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Fair enough. You seem to have some kind of inside info or it's just speculation on your part.
Notre Dame aside. I don't see how FSU "grows the Pie like no others could"

To anyone on this board:

What would Florida State bring to the B1G that would benefit it? I don't see any benefit to the B1G to reach done in the panhandle of Florida unless they have an overall plan for expansion into the southeast. (SEC country) I know there's been talk about North Carolina and Duke, but this is a long way from there.

I agree. People don't like this take but I think the Bay Area is a market that fits B1G.

 

[nitramnaed]

well, if Fla State joined the B1G, that means BTN gets more revenue because games would be in-market in the Talahassee market area. also more media coverage of the B1G conference could help with recognition and recruiting for B1G teams. and BTN and the other B1G media partners would have another team in the Eastern time zone for the early TV window. it could also enhance the idea of the B1G as a "national" conference, as opposed to the SEC which is still more of a regional conference.

I suppose that's something.

I asked for the input, and thanks, I appreciate your effort here, but Tallahassee is the 105th media market in the US. If they want eastern time zone, they would be better off chasing NC and Duke where they can get the North Carolina media market which is much higher.

 

[nitramnaed]

I agree. People don't like this take but I think the Bay Area is a market that fits B1G.

So, your saying Stanford and Cal. to fill that gap between the LA and the NW?

 

[GopherGrit]

So, your saying Stanford and Cal. to fill that gap between the LA and the NW?

Unless it's too big of a problem for logistics (for non-football sports), I would rather take one Bay Area school and one Arizona school, if adding two more Western schools.

Would also rather take Colorado and then Utah, than double up in any of the Western markets.

 

[dinkything]

Fair enough. You seem to have some kind of inside info or it's just speculation on your part.
Notre Dame aside. I don't see how FSU "grows the Pie like no others could"

To anyone on this board:

What would Florida State bring to the B1G that would benefit it? I don't see any benefit to the B1G to reach done in the panhandle of Florida unless they have an overall plan for expansion into the southeast. (SEC country) I know there's been talk about North Carolina and Duke, but this is a long way from there.

The argument you are making regarding FSU… is the same argument you could be making about that little, Catholic college in a small northern Indiana town… how could the B1G possible be enhanced… and every Conference school wealthier… with ND and FSU… than without??

The B1G and its media partners have done their homework…

 

[dinkything]

Unless it's too big of a problem for logistics (for non-football sports), I would rather take one Bay Area school and one Arizona school, if adding two more Western schools.

Would also rather take Colorado and then Utah, than double up in any of the Western markets.

Would you still take any/all of the schools you mentioned above if it meant that the Gophers - and every other B1G institution - would receive a smaller annual payout?

Because that is what would happen

 

[Ope3]

I’m not even sure there’s a disadvantage to playing conference championships anymore unless you get completely blown out.

The only disadvantage would be the injury risk

+ ND gets an extra week of rest without having to play Conference Championship week. Could be a bigger factor if the CFP gets bumped up a week.

 

[Ope3]

Would you still take any/all of the schools you mentioned above if it meant that the Gophers - and every other B1G institution - would receive a smaller annual payout?

Because that is what would happen

Maybe not if the schools agree to a reduced share as Oregon & Washington have done.

 

[STPGopher]

They’d make less


Ohio State, Michigan, Penn state and USC could bail on the conference and form a super conference if they wanted.

They could bail and become independent if they wanted


My thing is it’s definitely fair that Notre dame is independent and anyone can make that choice

Notre Dame isn’t the only independent team

Let's cut the chase. I just hate Notre Dame!

 

[GophersInIowa]

+ ND gets an extra week of rest without having to play Conference Championship week. Could be a bigger factor if the CFP gets bumped up a week.

It evens out a little in that they never get a bye in the playoffs. Unless they change that.

 

[dinkything]

Maybe not if the schools agree to a reduced share as Oregon & Washington have done.

This is temporary… all are on a path to a full share… and deservedly so.

 

[Ope3]

It evens out a little in that they never get a bye in the playoffs. Unless they change that.

That was my original point to begin with, Post #8. I think it's completely fair that ND is Independent, as long as they don't get a Bye.

Also even this year, say that the Irish were hypothetically in an ACC Championship Game and lost to either SMU/Clemson. A 2nd loss probably wouldn't have kept them from a CFP Berth but it likely would have cost them a Home Game.

 

[PoockItInfor6]

I think it’s any easy thing to say but the big ten has 4 playoff teams and Notre dame beat two of them.
Also beat USC and Purdue


I do think the gauntlet of a full conference schedule is different than hodge podge P4 teams. Probably don’t go 9-0 in big ten play. But 10-2 notre dame makes the playoff from the big ten and they’ve already beaten 2 of the top 4

Notre Dame also lost to Northern Illinois. They definitely had a stretch where they would have lost to Minnesota during the season.

 

[Some guy]

Notre Dame also lost to Northern Illinois. They definitely had a stretch where they would have lost to Minnesota during the season.

Could* have lost

I think Notre Dame would’ve probably gone somewhere between 9-3 and 11-1 against MN’s schedule

I can’t say 12-0 because they lost to northern Illinois

 

[SeaBee_Gopher]

My original post has devolved into a lot of expansion talk which I always find interesting, but I currently am very happy with the size of the B1G and don't see a lot of value in expanding further in the near term. We have the majority of the largest TV markets in the US tied up.

If we take on Florida State, do we kick the bees nest of the SEC by going into what they consider their backyard? It seems like we've currently agreed on a ceasefire with the SEC. They expanded and we responded. Neither of us has teams in the same state. Both conferences are flush with cash and power. The B1G has closed the gap on the SEC in terms of competitiveness on the field.

I'm good with where we are. Why help Florida State or Notre Dame become more competitive? There are positives as well as negatives associated with taking these teams on. Our recent addition of the best programs in the west was high reward, low risk. This does not feel the same.

 

[Ope3]

I'm good with where we are. Why help Florida State or Notre Dame become more competitive? There are positives as well as negatives associated with taking these teams on. Our recent addition of the best programs in the west was high reward, low risk. This does not feel the same.

Are we sure if Florida St & Notre Dame would be more competitive programs in the Big 10?

Granted different landscape, but Penn St had won 2 National Titles in the decade before joining the Big 10 and none since. They were undefeated in 1994 but outvoted by Nebraska.

Speaking of Nebraska, pretty clear they have been less competitive since joining the Big 10. It may have happened anyway.

Going forward no idea what the impact would be with an 18 Team Big 10 now, much less a potential expanded conference going forward, NIL and Transfer Portal, I'm just referencing recent history.

 

[Some guy]

My original post has devolved into a lot of expansion talk which I always find interesting, but I currently am very happy with the size of the B1G and don't see a lot of value in expanding further in the near term. We have the majority of the largest TV markets in the US tied up.

If we take on Florida State, do we kick the bees nest of the SEC by going into what they consider their backyard? It seems like we've currently agreed on a ceasefire with the SEC. They expanded and we responded. Neither of us has teams in the same state. Both conferences are flush with cash and power. The B1G has closed the gap on the SEC in terms of competitiveness on the field.

I'm good with where we are. Why help Florida State or Notre Dame become more competitive? There are positives as well as negatives associated with taking these teams on. Our recent addition of the best programs in the west was high reward, low risk. This does not feel the same.

I am unhappy with the size of the big ten.
We should boot Rutgers, Maryland, and Penn state to the ACC and boot Nebraska to the big 12

We should tell the west coast teams to form a new conference perhaps the pacific 4