Interesting comparison to another program

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Syracuse with Dino Babers.

- it’s a school that has had some history in football but largely wouldn’t be considered a football school now
- head coach came up and had success in the MAC
- had a really nice season in year 3 (2018 season), going 10-3 and winning bowl game, finished top 15
- but then went 5-7 in 2019 and 2021

Now, 2022 is his 7th season and they just beat a top 15 team to go 6-0 on the season.

Still have a very meaty schedule left so who knows they may flop.


Just saying, don’t give up on Fleck yet. Things can look good early, then be up and down, but I think our day to shine will still come.
 




stocker08 said:
The only people giving up on Fleck are trolls and dopes.
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This is what happened to Mason, you don't win these games and fans start grumbling. Fleck wants and welcomes expectations and deserves criticism for the last two efforts. MSU was one of the greatest Gopher wins of my lifetime and then we pumpkined.
 


A program isn’t built in a year.
Illinois in year 2, really good year. Year not over. Even if Illinois goes 11-2 with a big ten title game loss, this doesn’t mean that Illinois will always be a great team.

I like Fleck. I wish we had a more innovative offense but it is what it is.

Barry Alvarez in year 6 4-5-2
Hayden Fry in year 6 8-4-1
Ron turner (2001 big ten champion at Illinois) in year 6 5-7
Randy walker in year 6 6-6
Joe tiller in year 6 7-6
Gary Barnett in year 6 5-7
Mark Dantonio year 6 7-5
James Franklin year 6 11-2
Kirk Ferentz year 6 10-2
Pat Fitzgerald year 6 6-7
Tom Osborne year 6 9-3
Tom Allen year 6 2-10
 

goldengophers said:
This is what happened to Mason, you don't win these games and fans start grumbling. Fleck wants and welcomes expectations and deserves criticism for the last two efforts. MSU was one of the greatest Gopher wins of my lifetime and then we pumpkined.
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No question: people getting upset at a year where we likely finish 7-5 8-4 without our second best player for 8 games is a sign program expectations have risen and that’s a good thing
 

Some guy said:
No question: people getting upset at a year where we likely finish 7-5 8-4 without our second best player for 8 games is a sign program expectations have risen and that’s a good thing
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The depth is a larger concern and lies at the feet of one person
 

goldengophers said:
The depth is a larger concern and lies at the feet of one person
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Yeah but Minnesota is never going to have the depth to win the big ten with injuries

I think Brohm is a really good coach. I think fleck is a really good coach. There used to be heated debates on here about who is better

Brohm was bit by injury but so I guess fleck is better. But wait now the last two years fleck’s team has injury bug…now is Brohm better?
My take is they are both pretty good but it’s hard to win with injuries (especially at MN and Purdue)
 



Some guy said:
Yeah but Minnesota is never going to have the depth to win the big ten with injuries

I think Brohm is a really good coach. I think fleck is a really good coach. There used to be heated debates on here about who is better

Brohm was bit by injury but so I guess fleck is better. But wait now the last two years fleck’s team has injury bug…now is Brohm better?
My take is they are both pretty good but it’s hard to win with injuries (especially at MN and Purdue)
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I guess I overrated his ability to recruit on his WR track record.
 

Some guy said:
Yeah but Minnesota is never going to have the depth to win the big ten with injuries

I think Brohm is a really good coach. I think fleck is a really good coach. There used to be heated debates on here about who is better

Brohm was bit by injury but so I guess fleck is better. But wait now the last two years fleck’s team has injury bug…now is Brohm better?
My take is they are both pretty good but it’s hard to win with injuries (especially at MN and Purdue)
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I do think this is one area that some fans struggle with the difference between NFL and college. In the NFL if you get some injuries you have the ability to try and make trades or sign free agents in order to fix the issues.

In college the roster you start the year with is your roster and if something happens during the course of the season your only option is to fix it in house. So when you lose top players you have to hope you have quality guys behind them ready to go. That depth is tough to come by at anywhere outside of the top handful of schools like Ohio State and Alabama
 

PJ is not the problem.

We won 11 games in a season.

We beat wisconsin 2 times in the last 4.

We win bowl games.



This year we had our #1 WR go down. We have a right side OL of "good in high school but didn't get better" transfers.

We have a DL and LBs that were built to stop high octane speed offenses. Unfortunately, we can't stop the run because of it.

We still may win 7 or 8 games. If you thought this roster with this QB was better than that to start the year, what where you drinking or smoking as I would love to try it.
 





Some guy said:
A program isn’t built in a year.
Illinois in year 2, really good year. Year not over. Even if Illinois goes 11-2 with a big ten title game loss, this doesn’t mean that Illinois will always be a great team.

I like Fleck. I wish we had a more innovative offense but it is what it is.

Barry Alvarez in year 6 4-5-2
Hayden Fry in year 6 8-4-1
Ron turner (2001 big ten champion at Illinois) in year 6 5-7
Randy walker in year 6 6-6
Joe tiller in year 6 7-6
Gary Barnett in year 6 5-7
Mark Dantonio year 6 7-5
James Franklin year 6 11-2
Kirk Ferentz year 6 10-2
Pat Fitzgerald year 6 6-7
Tom Osborne year 6 9-3
Tom Allen year 6 2-10
Click to expand...

Comparing Osborne's Year 6, Fry's Year 6 and Alvarez's Year 6 to now isn't really a worthy exercise. Game is completely different. Transfer portal means you don't need 6 years.
 




gopherinatl said:
Comparing Osborne's Year 6, Fry's Year 6 and Alvarez's Year 6 to now isn't really a worthy exercise. Game is completely different. Transfer portal means you don't need 6 years.
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Transfer portal makes it even harder for programs in the second tier. Look at Pitt and what happened to their roster this year

Plus, no ability to get a split title with mutiple conference losses and no conference title game
So you are right. Much harder today. Bad comparison
 

Some guy said:
A program isn’t built in a year.
Illinois in year 2, really good year. Year not over. Even if Illinois goes 11-2 with a big ten title game loss, this doesn’t mean that Illinois will always be a great team.

I like Fleck. I wish we had a more innovative offense but it is what it is.

Barry Alvarez in year 6 4-5-2
Hayden Fry in year 6 8-4-1
Ron turner (2001 big ten champion at Illinois) in year 6 5-7
Randy walker in year 6 6-6
Joe tiller in year 6 7-6
Gary Barnett in year 6 5-7
Mark Dantonio year 6 7-5
James Franklin year 6 11-2
Kirk Ferentz year 6 10-2
Pat Fitzgerald year 6 6-7
Tom Osborne year 6 9-3
Tom Allen year 6 2-10
Click to expand...
With the portal it's clear teams can be built in two years.
 


goldengophers said:
This is what happened to Mason, you don't win these games and fans start grumbling. Fleck wants and welcomes expectations and deserves criticism for the last two efforts. MSU was one of the greatest Gopher wins of my lifetime and then we pumpkined.
Click to expand...
Michigan state is not good this year
 


Some guy said:
A program isn’t built in a year.
Illinois in year 2, really good year. Year not over. Even if Illinois goes 11-2 with a big ten title game loss, this doesn’t mean that Illinois will always be a great team.

I like Fleck. I wish we had a more innovative offense but it is what it is.

Barry Alvarez in year 6 4-5-2
Hayden Fry in year 6 8-4-1
Ron turner (2001 big ten champion at Illinois) in year 6 5-7
Randy walker in year 6 6-6
Joe tiller in year 6 7-6
Gary Barnett in year 6 5-7
Mark Dantonio year 6 7-5
James Franklin year 6 11-2
Kirk Ferentz year 6 10-2
Pat Fitzgerald year 6 6-7
Tom Osborne year 6 9-3
Tom Allen year 6 2-10
Click to expand...
The majority of those coaches also had a conference title before year 6.
 


PMWinSTP said:
With the portal it's clear teams can be built in two years.
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And teams like the Gophers can be poached by others, see Irving, Bucky. Yes, we can poach from the Abilene Christians of the world, but the big boys can also poach from us. It cuts both ways. Also, see MSU for how well it goes when you build a team on a bunch of transfers- it catches up to you. Can it help you to fix some deficiencies? Sure. But to say that a team like MN can be better long term due to mass transfers is unlikely. Unless we get some massive NIL donors, MN is going to need to be a developmental program whether you agree or not.
 

goldengophers said:
This is what happened to Mason, you don't win these games and fans start grumbling. Fleck wants and welcomes expectations and deserves criticism for the last two efforts. MSU was one of the greatest Gopher wins of my lifetime and then we pumpkined.
Click to expand...
Fleck will never lose games the way that Mason did. They aren't really comparable coaches in the least.
 

was listening to the new Gopher Gridiron Radio podcast.

Ryan Burns was talking about the depth - and talent - at WR. With CrAB out, the Gophers simply do not have another receiver who can create separation and get open on his own. (maybe BSF, but he's not a WR). that forces the QB to make perfect throws, or requires the WR's to win a lot of 50/50 balls.

the Gopher system is based on a balanced offense. Run first, but need the pass to compliment the run. That means the coaches must find WR's who can make plays - if not in the HS ranks then in the portal. Especially for next year with Mo gone. If there's a younger WR on the roster who can possibly make a play, it's time to see what they can do.
 

gopherinatl said:
Comparing Osborne's Year 6, Fry's Year 6 and Alvarez's Year 6 to now isn't really a worthy exercise. Game is completely different. Transfer portal means you don't need 6 years.
Click to expand...
Wrong. Transfer portal let’s you bring in good players, yes, but it is a vicious two-way street, esp. if you are at an NIL-poor school. Then the portal can simultaneously deprive you of top “depth” players—and can make it virtually impossible to recruit top players out of HS. If we had Bucky and Ky this year we might be 5-1 and might have played ILL closer.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
was listening to the new Gopher Gridiron Radio podcast.

Ryan Burns was talking about the depth - and talent - at WR. With CrAB out, the Gophers simply do not have another receiver who can create separation and get open on his own. (maybe BSF, but he's not a WR). that forces the QB to make perfect throws, or requires the WR's to win a lot of 50/50 balls.

the Gopher system is based on a balanced offense. Run first, but need the pass to compliment the run. That means the coaches must find WR's who can make plays - if not in the HS ranks then in the portal. Especially for next year with Mo gone. If there's a younger WR on the roster who can possibly make a play, it's time to see what they can do.
Click to expand...
Hoskins. Fly routes. Bubble screens. Worth a try.
 

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