Interesting comparison to another program

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short ornery norwegian said:
was listening to the new Gopher Gridiron Radio podcast.

Ryan Burns was talking about the depth - and talent - at WR. With CrAB out, the Gophers simply do not have another receiver who can create separation and get open on his own. (maybe BSF, but he's not a WR). that forces the QB to make perfect throws, or requires the WR's to win a lot of 50/50 balls.

the Gopher system is based on a balanced offense. Run first, but need the pass to compliment the run. That means the coaches must find WR's who can make plays - if not in the HS ranks then in the portal. Especially for next year with Mo gone. If there's a younger WR on the roster who can possibly make a play, it's time to see what they can do.
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I’d like to see Hoskins just for his speed component, also Ike White and Brockington due to the hype. None of them might be ready for full time duty though (I know Brockington has already played). But just thinking at least give them a try with the other regulars.
 



There are people who are unhappy.
Not sure if anyone is saying he should be fired.
But what many posters are instead are suggesting is PJ should change to be someone different. Well, people don't change like that. They do learn. They don't learn the same day something happens to them however.

If you expect PJ to improve somehow, you need to give him time to improve.
Just because we had 2019 and you now believed that should be the floor of our program is more of a reflection on your lack of understanding for how college football has worked the last 30 years.
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
I’d like to see Hoskins just for his speed component, also Ike White and Brockington due to the hype. None of them might be ready for full time duty though (I know Brockington has already played). But just thinking at least give them a try with the other regulars.
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MBS' play the last two weeks would seem to dictate one or two of the backups getting a shot. But maybe he's a great practice player.
 




Face The Facts said:
There are people who are unhappy.
Not sure if anyone is saying he should be fired.
But what many posters are instead are suggesting is PJ should change to be someone different. Well, people don't change like that. They do learn. They don't learn the same day something happens to them however.

If you expect PJ to improve somehow, you need to give him time to improve.
Just because we had 2019 and you now believed that should be the floor of our program is more of a reflection on your lack of understanding for how college football has worked the last 30 years.
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PJ has proved he can change. He fired Rob Smith at the right time; he took play calling away from Sanford too late, but did it; and he changed his long-held belief that kickoff returns only represented danger and no opportunity.

He would profit greatly in altering his core philosophy that the ground game and TOP are all that really matter. You simply can't win in the big time college game today just emphasizing the running game.

A balanced offense doesn't just mean you threw the ball 40% of the time instead of 25%. It means you see the pass as a huge part of opening up your running game. You coach with the philosophy that passing is as important as running. You coach pass blocking as aggressively as run blocking.

My suspicion is that PJ sees the air game as a necessary evil rather than a great opportunity. He could change his best on this.
 





PMWinSTP said:
So good for everyone. Not sure of original your point?
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Original point, not elaborated well, was as good as he is Syracuse was planning to start someone else. The reason he transferred. It makes BB look really smart for grabbing him.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
was listening to the new Gopher Gridiron Radio podcast.

Ryan Burns was talking about the depth - and talent - at WR. With CrAB out, the Gophers simply do not have another receiver who can create separation and get open on his own. (maybe BSF, but he's not a WR). that forces the QB to make perfect throws, or requires the WR's to win a lot of 50/50 balls.

the Gopher system is based on a balanced offense. Run first, but need the pass to compliment the run. That means the coaches must find WR's who can make plays - if not in the HS ranks then in the portal. Especially for next year with Mo gone. If there's a younger WR on the roster who can possibly make a play, it's time to see what they can do.
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Can we ask opposing teams to run the same defensive scheme as MSU :) ? Hopefully Kirk can make some adjustments because Purdue and Illinois took away what he was trying to do with the passing game.
 





Face The Facts said:
There are people who are unhappy.
Not sure if anyone is saying he should be fired.
But what many posters are instead are suggesting is PJ should change to be someone different. Well, people don't change like that. They do learn. They don't learn the same day something happens to them however.

If you expect PJ to improve somehow, you need to give him time to improve.
Just because we had 2019 and you now believed that should be the floor of our program is more of a reflection on your lack of understanding for how college football has worked the last 30 years.
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Yeah I don’t get it.
And this is the offense. This has been the offense.

This was the offense in 2017, first half of 2018, 2020, 2021, 2022
 

Dakota2 said:
Because he got beat out from his starting position.
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Wrong. Barbers wanted him to run 25 times a game and the kid has NFL aspirations. Dad said no to Babers and he sat for the rest of the year.
I was at the game and the kid has a nice arm and wheels.
 

Maybe there’s too much film on the RPO and Tanner Morgan to out-scheme defenses like we have in the past.

Other teams already know we aren’t snapping the ball til the play clock is way down. We need some wrinkles to keep the defense off-balance. Illinois looked like they knew what was coming every play.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
was listening to the new Gopher Gridiron Radio podcast.

Ryan Burns was talking about the depth - and talent - at WR. With CrAB out, the Gophers simply do not have another receiver who can create separation and get open on his own. (maybe BSF, but he's not a WR). that forces the QB to make perfect throws, or requires the WR's to win a lot of 50/50 balls.

the Gopher system is based on a balanced offense. Run first, but need the pass to compliment the run. That means the coaches must find WR's who can make plays - if not in the HS ranks then in the portal. Especially for next year with Mo gone. If there's a younger WR on the roster who can possibly make a play, it's time to see what they can do.
Click to expand...
Here is one thing though. There has to be some athletes somewhere on the roster that can be moved over there. Not a DB somewhere that we can try to develop? This kind of thing can and does happen all the time in college FB. Put your athletes on the field. Fleck and co should be working full-time right now trying to find someone/anyone that can get a little separation from their defender.
 

stocker08 said:
The only people giving up on Fleck are trolls and dopes.
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I have not given up on him at all. One thing that does legitimately concern me is what looks like lack of development at skill positions beyond the "top guy." Both our WR and RB positions have looked a lot less deep than I expected. What I'm hoping to see from Fleck is stronger recruiting, especially in state. We need a fence around the state and as basically the only d1 football program it's gotta be a huge goal for this program's ascension.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
was listening to the new Gopher Gridiron Radio podcast.

Ryan Burns was talking about the depth - and talent - at WR. With CrAB out, the Gophers simply do not have another receiver who can create separation and get open on his own. (maybe BSF, but he's not a WR). that forces the QB to make perfect throws, or requires the WR's to win a lot of 50/50 balls.

the Gopher system is based on a balanced offense. Run first, but need the pass to compliment the run. That means the coaches must find WR's who can make plays - if not in the HS ranks then in the portal. Especially for next year with Mo gone. If there's a younger WR on the roster who can possibly make a play, it's time to see what they can do.
Click to expand...
Also .. maybe Purdue and Illinois just have very talented and well coached DB's? Perhaps not Ohio State/Michigan good, but maybe the next best in the Big Ten?

Guys not catching balls that were catchable (or hit them in the hands) is another thing, than not having the physical ability to get open and what level of "get open" do we expect to need for our QB to hit them?
 


Dakota2 said:
PJ has proved he can change. He fired Rob Smith at the right time; he took play calling away from Sanford too late, but did it; and he changed his long-held belief that kickoff returns only represented danger and no opportunity.

He would profit greatly in altering his core philosophy that the ground game and TOP are all that really matter. You simply can't win in the big time college game today just emphasizing the running game.

A balanced offense doesn't just mean you threw the ball 40% of the time instead of 25%. It means you see the pass as a huge part of opening up your running game. You coach with the philosophy that passing is as important as running. You coach pass blocking as aggressively as run blocking.

My suspicion is that PJ sees the air game as a necessary evil rather than a great opportunity. He could change his best on this.
Click to expand...
Which is kind of an odd thing, if true, for a guy who got a shot as a practice squad level WR.

I think his football philosophies had a lot to do with his mentors, one of which was Greg Schiano.
 

Otis said:
Maybe there’s too much film on the RPO and Tanner Morgan to out-scheme defenses like we have in the past.

Other teams already know we aren’t snapping the ball til the play clock is way down. We need some wrinkles to keep the defense off-balance. Illinois looked like they knew what was coming every play.
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Bret Bielema certainly figured something out against us in these two meetings, for how to stop us on offense.

I know I got dinged for saying that in the other thread, because we had Sanford at the helm last year and so that is probably correct to some degree.

But I also believe Fleck had and still has a good deal of "dictation" on the scheme/identity of how he wants the offense to work, though not calling plays or game-planning directly.


Last year, their (ILL's) OC wasn't that good and Rossi "won" the battle, but our offense couldn't do anything. This year, they have a new OC from UTSA and he got the better of Rossi, and of course we still couldn't do anything on offense.
 

Some guy said:
A program isn’t built in a year.
Illinois in year 2, really good year. Year not over. Even if Illinois goes 11-2 with a big ten title game loss, this doesn’t mean that Illinois will always be a great team.

I like Fleck. I wish we had a more innovative offense but it is what it is.

Barry Alvarez in year 6 4-5-2
Hayden Fry in year 6 8-4-1
Ron turner (2001 big ten champion at Illinois) in year 6 5-7
Randy walker in year 6 6-6
Joe tiller in year 6 7-6
Gary Barnett in year 6 5-7
Mark Dantonio year 6 7-5
James Franklin year 6 11-2
Kirk Ferentz year 6 10-2
Pat Fitzgerald year 6 6-7
Tom Osborne year 6 9-3
Tom Allen year 6 2-10
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Agree. It goes in cycles if you are at a school long enough. Only Michigan, tOSU, and PSU in the B1G can sustain with winning due to build in advantages.

2019 was the special season that got smudged by not winning the division. I also think that COVID allowing guys to stick around for 6-7th years has caused some development issues on our roster. We'll see what next year looks like.

In the end recruiting to MN is still a tall task and I think Fleck does it at a really good level.
 

Recruiting good 4* and higher to pretty much anywhere that isn't already a strong program is a tall task at any program that isn't already that.

Minn then has the brutal cold and the distance to fight against for getting southern kids here, as an additional hurdle to overcome.

It's probably always going to be about getting local kids and then seeing something in 3* that you know you can develop them.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Agree. It goes in cycles if you are at a school long enough. Only Michigan, tOSU, and PSU in the B1G can sustain with winning due to build in advantages.

2019 was the special season that got smudged by not winning the division. I also think that COVID allowing guys to stick around for 6-7th years has caused some development issues on our roster. We'll see what next year looks like.

In the end recruiting to MN is still a tall task and I think Fleck does it at a really good level.
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Agree. And might have hampered some recruiting too
 

Gophers_4life said:
Bret Bielema certainly figured something out against us in these two meetings, for how to stop us on offense.
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What Bielema has learned from WI, AR, Patriots, over the years, Illinois might be the next Iowa or WI in the conference. He will start making it really hard for IL kids to say no to going to Illinois. Add in some of the SEC country he recruited. He develops players and is balanced on Offense and Defense.

His 2023 class sits at #13 in the conference, but I bet he's not at all concerned with that at this point.

14 3* and a 4*

5 from Florida
6 from Illinois
 

Gophers_4life said:
Recruiting good 4* and higher to pretty much anywhere that isn't already a strong program is a tall task at any program that isn't already that.

Minn then has the brutal cold and the distance to fight against for getting southern kids here, as an additional hurdle to overcome.

It's probably always going to be about getting local kids and then seeing something in 3* that you know you can develop them.
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Agree. Some of those 3*'s become 4-5*'s through development. Some are rated lower just on playing MN HS football.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
What Bielema has learned from WI, AR, Patriots, over the years, Illinois might be the next Iowa or WI in the conference. He will start making it really hard for IL kids to say no to going to Illinois. Add in some of the SEC country he recruited. He develops players and is balanced on Offense and Defense.

His 2023 class sits at #13 in the conference, but I bet he's not at all concerned with that at this point.

14 3* and a 4*

5 from Florida
6 from Illinois
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I think he got a good one in the OC they snagged from UTSA, as well.

Rossi is one of the best coaches we've had. Since he's been DC, I don't think we've been or rarely do we get blown out, where the other side just out does him. We tend to at least hold the other side down enough so that if our offense had a good day we could win.


But the ILL guy got the better of him. Good scheme and yeah they have some players.
 

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