In All Fairness, We Must Now Ask A Different Question:

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Honestly, I don't think Tubby gives a f*** if the players he recruits are nice and friendly or mean and full of themselves. He recruits player based on their basketball skills. Do you think Tubby started looking at Tyus Jones because he found out he was a nice, down to earth kid? Or did he start recruiting him because he is the best basketball recruit in the country and is from Minnesota? Coaches look at talent first
 

tinyarch said:
The kids had a week to get ready for this game and they had the desperation of a distinct possibility that they would play in the NIT. If you corner a cat, you're going to get a much bigger fight than if you just let them lounge around the neighborhood. The Gophers were cornered and they responded with a desperate effort. Now, let's see if they can keep up that kind of energy. My thoughts are that they can't.

Last nights win pretty much seals their opportunity to play in the dance. Will they now revert to the team that averaged over 15 turnovers per game or will they maintain their intensity to do more than just get into the dance?

We have a track record of six years by which to evaluate Tubby. One dramatic win does not wipe the slate of the past six years away.

I disagree with you to some degree when you state that a coach will recruit human beings that he likes because at the D1 level you have to recruit kids that will win you games or you lose your job. Looking for a certain type of player that fits your system of play is, to me, different than recruiting players that you personally get along with or relate to their personality.

You also seem to imply that the Gophers players are good, friendly folks who are easy going, laugh and have fun, but they don't really have an intense desire to win. I would strongly disagree with that implication. I would counter that all those kids have a very strong desire to win and be very successful at basketball. The difference between them and other players on another team will be whether they were sufficiently taught how to succeed in the system the coach implements. These teaching skills go a long way toward determining an elite program and one that falls below that elite level. Tubby had his chance to coach an elite program and that program dropped below an acceptable status under his leadership. He has yet to bring this program to even a tier below the elite programs, but instead has settled in at mid-level.

Now, I know some on the GH will immediately whine about me being a Tubby hater, but all I'm doing is pointing to the 6 year track record of data that we have. Last night's win was as good as it gets at the Barn and at the U of M. It is a fantastic memory to celebrate and the team should be honored for the great win. But, that doesn't change the boat load of data that shows Minnesota as a mid-level team over the past 6 years.
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Yes, I do think that you are a Tubby hater. I just have one question for you. Have you ever played organized sports? If yes, how did you feel to have fans like yourself who enjoyed spoiling the fun? You are already covering your a$$ by saying this team will fail in March. What do you get out of this. Can you not at least once say that you hope to be wrong? You always have to be a Debbie Downer?

Go Gophers
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
tiny --


If, as I've read many write in here, that this is the first year that Tubby doesn't have an excuse because of injuries, then grouping this season together with the prior 5 might not be the best way to determine if Tubby has THIS years team up to that just below elite level that you claim they are not at.


#15 RPI, #18 Ken-Pom, #19 Sagarin, #1 SOS

FOUR wins vs RPI Top 25, THREE wins vs KP Top 12, THREE wins vs Sagarin Top 10.

And SIX wins vs KP Top 42 and SIX wins vs Sagarin Top 42.


Are Arizona, Missouri or Cincinnati elite?

UMn has JUST AS MANY Ws vs the Top 25 of the RPI, as Zona, Cincy & Mizzou COMBINED!!!

And we've played MORE gms vs the Top 25 of the RPI than all 3 of those teams COMBINED!!
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Debat those who claim the past 5 years don't count..."because"...are ignoring the fact that Tubby recruited those players and is therefore responsible for them leaving as well. I do not hold Tubby responsible for any major injuries that have happened in his tenure. I do hold him responsible for recruiting and for teaching kids to be successful in the system he's designed.

Most of us here at MN had the same thoughts about Tubby as your friend does when Kentucky moved to get rid of him. We thought that Kentucky fans were crazy to be down on Tubby. What many of us have come to realize is that our perception was riddled with ignorance of how Tubby went about teaching his players how to play. Now we are the ones who see the proof of less than stellar coaching and your friend is the one who thinks we are crazy. Why don't you tell him that we'll gladly trade coaches with UNC. See how far he'll run with that one.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
Yes, I do think that you are a Tubby hater. I just have one question for you. Have you ever played organized sports? If yes, how did you feel to have fans like yourself who enjoyed spoiling the fun? You are already covering your a$$ by saying this team will fail in March. What do you get out of this. Can you not at least once say that you hope to be wrong? You always have to be a Debbie Downer?

Go Gophers
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This is a discussion board, RT, not a pep rally! If you want a pep rally, go to U of M and bring your pom pons!
 



What I get out of this is a discussion on whether we must now ask a different question...just like the thread states. I answered the author of this thread with an honest response and reason for my views. The fact that you want to promote cheerleading is irrelevant to me.
 

tinyarch said:
What I get out of this is a discussion on whether we must now ask a different question...just like the thread states. I answered the author of this thread with an honest response and reason for my views. The fact that you want to promote cheerleading is irrelevant to me.
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Wait cheering for your favorite team is bad now?
 

tiny --

Umm, one thing you might be missing is the fact that Tubby went to KENTUCKY. Then he came to minnesota. This UNC fan is very familiar with what expectations at Kentucky are, and should be. He's also pretty familiar with what expectations are, and should be at Minnesota. And he has family in Minnesota, I think he vacations here often.

Tubby getting us to 3 NCAA tourney's in 6 years, and this year possibly getting us a couple games into the tourney, we hope, will be FAR MORE than any other legit non-cheating coach has ever done here at Minnesota.

And now he's gotten us a win over a #1 team. IF Clem wasn't cheating at the time, then the two coaches would be tied in this category.

But Tubby also got us wins over Eventual #2 in the nation Butler, and eventual #1 in the nation Louisville. A win over a #5 Ohio St and a #7 UNC as well. All before this year. Who knows where MSU, Wisconsin, Indiana or Memphis will finish the season, or Illinois for that matter?

I don't know that you can point to any other non-cheating coach that's gotten us to so many big wins?!

And what other coach has gotten us a #1 SOS, or a #15 RPI rating?!


I'm not saying Tubby's coaching isn't suspect. But he's also had periods and games where his coaching seemed very good.


I remember 2 Indiana fans commenting several times over the past couple years that Minnesota has won games over superior Indiana teams simply because Tubby outcoached their coach.
 




tiny -- one more thing. You might not catch so much flack if you had just waited, say, 48 hours before starting to point to negatives. Man, let people enjoy the moment, IN THE MOMENT. It was a great win, over a team ranked #1 preseason, and 2 times since first getting knocked out of 1st. They're still #1 in the Sagarin and #2 in the Ken-Pom ratings and could easily end up back at #1 pretty soon.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
tiny --

Umm, one thing you might be missing is the fact that Tubby went to KENTUCKY. Then he came to minnesota. This UNC fan is very familiar with what expectations at Kentucky are, and should be. He's also pretty familiar with what expectations are, and should be at Minnesota. And he has family in Minnesota, I think he vacations here often.

Tubby getting us to 3 NCAA tourney's in 6 years, and this year possibly getting us a couple games into the tourney, we hope, will be FAR MORE than any other legit non-cheating coach has ever done here at Minnesota.

And now he's gotten us a win over a #1 team. IF Clem wasn't cheating at the time, then the two coaches would be tied in this category.

But Tubby also got us wins over Eventual #2 in the nation Butler, and eventual #1 in the nation Louisville. A win over a #5 Ohio St and a #7 UNC as well. All before this year. Who knows where MSU, Wisconsin, Indiana or Memphis will finish the season, or Illinois for that matter?

I don't know that you can point to any other non-cheating coach that's gotten us to so many big wins?!

And what other coach has gotten us a #1 SOS, or a #15 RPI rating?!


I'm not saying Tubby's coaching isn't suspect. But he's also had periods and games where his coaching seemed very good.


I remember 2 Indiana fans commenting several times over the past couple years that Minnesota has won games over superior Indiana teams simply because Tubby outcoached their coach.
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Tubby can thank a strong B1G conference for this.
 

And our WINS over Memphis, Stanford, NDSU, SDSU, FSU, Richmond, USC, Tenn St, Toledo and Lafayette, all of which are teams ranked among the top half of teams in NCAA Div 1 cbb.


And I don't know, how much influence does Tubby have in the scheduling?!



Had the Big Ten not been so strong, we'd probably have more wins, and our SOS and RPI were both pretty damned good before we started playing conf games.
 

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