In All Fairness, We Must Now Ask A Different Question:

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

I was at the game last night, sitting in perhaps the best seats in the entire stadium. Center court, 7th row. My point being that I had a very good look at what transpired last night. It seemed to me that the difference in the game came down to Trevor Mbakwe, more team intensity, desire and determination, and a few good breaks.

For those of us who've been highly critical of Tubby, we must now dig deeply and think hard about how much of the team's success or failure rests on the coaching ability and approach of Tubby Smith. It begs the question of: how much of this boils down to how badly these young men want to succeed and what are they willing to do to succeed. Also, how much guts do they have. Which really boils down to the type of person you have on your team.

For example, if you observed and compared Yogi to Dre, and Victor to Austin, there was no doubt in my mind that Yogi and Victor are much more intense, more focused, more poised, more confident. At least that's what they portray in a public forum. No matter what Tubby does or says, he will not be able to change the personality and fire in another human being. It all comes down to the individual he recruits. And, in my opinion, a coach is most likely to recruit human beings that he likes. And guess what, a coach is going to select guys who are most like him. In Tubby's case, that means guys that are good people, friendly, somewhat easy going, like to laugh and have fun, and who realize that there are more important things in life than basketball. Unfortunately, those may not be the same guys capable of winning 15 Big Ten games in a long and arduous season.

 

[The-Real-Truth]

Great post

I was at the game last night, sitting in perhaps the best seats in the entire stadium. Center court, 7th row. My point being that I had a very good look at what transpired last night. It seemed to me that the difference in the game came down to Trevor Mbakwe, more team intensity, desire and determination, and a few good breaks.

For those of us who've been highly critical of Tubby, we must now dig deeply and think hard about how much of the team's success or failure rests on the coaching ability and approach of Tubby Smith. It begs the question of: how much of this boils down to how badly these young men want to succeed and what are they willing to do to succeed. Also, how much guts do they have. Which really boils down to the type of person you have on your team.

For example, if you observed and compared Yogi to Dre, and Victor to Austin, there was no doubt in my mind that Yogi and Victor are much more intense, more focused, more poised, more confident. At least that's what they portray in a public forum. No matter what Tubby does or says, he will not be able to change the personality and fire in another human being. It all comes down to the individual he recruits. And, in my opinion, a coach is most likely to recruit human beings that he likes. And guess what, a coach is going to select guys who are most like him. In Tubby's case, that means guys that are good people, friendly, somewhat easy going, like to laugh and have fun, and who realize that there are more important things in life than basketball. Unfortunately, those may not be the same guys capable of winning 15 Big Ten games in a long and arduous season.

I have been saying this for several years now. Tubby has been a winner everywhere he has been. Mostly because when a kid comes to Uk or UGA, he knows that he has to play to win because it is normal. However, kids here in UofM play not-to-lose. All Tubby and UofM need is one winning season. I am 100% sure this team will do well in March. They play very relaxed and happy when they are in a Neutral court.

Go Gophers

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

Just to clarify if I may:

Don't dismiss for a second that we're talking about human beings here. As we know, people are not all the same. How many good managers out there have hired two really qualified, smart people to serve as salepersons for his company, only to find out a couple years later that one is the best salesperson in the company and the other is just average. On paper they look the same. In the field, both have good technique and establish good rapport with the customer. However, one has an uncanny knack to close the deal, while the other one for some reason can't get the customer to sign on the bottom line. In the end, it probably boils down to how badly one wants it versus the other or some other intangible quality.

I believe this analogy applies to young men playing basketball as well. There are qualities we can't easily see with the naked eye that have a great deal to do with how successful a person or team will be. We all want to believe it comes down to coaching, strategy, etc. But honest people will admit that maybe we don't really know why one team is better than the other until we meet, talk with and examine the players and personalities that make up the team.

Perhaps if Tubby learned to recruit kids with personalities that were different than what he tends to go for, he would have more success. Who knows. And yes, I realize this still rests on Tubby's shoulders either way. Let's just go easy on saying Tubby isn't a great coach or doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[CentralGopher]

I was at the game last night, sitting in perhaps the best seats in the entire stadium. Center court, 7th row. My point being that I had a very good look at what transpired last night. It seemed to me that the difference in the game came down to Trevor Mbakwe, more team intensity, desire and determination, and a few good breaks.

For those of us who've been highly critical of Tubby, we must now dig deeply and think hard about how much of the team's success or failure rests on the coaching ability and approach of Tubby Smith. It begs the question of: how much of this boils down to how badly these young men want to succeed and what are they willing to do to succeed. Also, how much guts do they have. Which really boils down to the type of person you have on your team.

For example, if you observed and compared Yogi to Dre, and Victor to Austin, there was no doubt in my mind that Yogi and Victor are much more intense, more focused, more poised, more confident. At least that's what they portray in a public forum. No matter what Tubby does or says, he will not be able to change the personality and fire in another human being. It all comes down to the individual he recruits. And, in my opinion, a coach is most likely to recruit human beings that he likes. And guess what, a coach is going to select guys who are most like him. In Tubby's case, that means guys that are good people, friendly, somewhat easy going, like to laugh and have fun, and who realize that there are more important things in life than basketball. Unfortunately, those may not be the same guys capable of winning 15 Big Ten games in a long and arduous season.

Yep, lets fire him right now for not recruiting those two players and anyone else who isn't friendly or like to laugh. I don't even want to see him finish the season because he didn't recruit bad a**es because only players who aren't friendly or like to laugh or have fun can be poised, confident, focused and win.

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

w

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

A

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

Yep, lets fire him right now for not recruiting those two players and anyone else who isn't friendly or like to laugh. I don't even want to see him finish the season because he didn't recruit bad a**es because only players who aren't friendly or like to laugh or have fun can be poised, confident, focused and win.

Another thing Mr. Genius. Why don't you propose a theory why the Gophers season has gone the way it has. You'll probably say: "....cause sometimes they play good and sometimes they play poorly...". Well, no *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# Sherlock. What we all are trying to understand is why do we see such a great disparity in their performance from game to game. What is happening. If you can't get to the bottom of something, you will never correct it or get better. Can't you understand that some of us are trying to find answers, while idiots like you are just trying to bash people. Please, go commit suicide.

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

Yep, lets fire him right now for not recruiting those two players and anyone else who isn't friendly or like to laugh. I don't even want to see him finish the season because he didn't recruit bad a**es because only players who aren't friendly or like to laugh or have fun can be poised, confident, focused and win.

Wow, what genius you are. Hey, if you're not intelligent enough to glean the point and engage in conversation, go beat your dog. Cause your response indicates you're a moron.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I think that, when you have a chance to bring in a 4-star recruit, Mr. Basketball in Tennessee, 4+ GPA, really good kid, you do it. Even if he doesn't have the "edge" you'd ideally like, you set out to toughen him up and mold him and get the fire burning. Maybe you end up successful at that, and maybe not, and the book is not complete on Andre. Like I'd said about John Thomas at one time, he came in here a happy-go-lucky kid and was a tough-minded man by the time he was an upperclassman.

 

[CentralGopher]

I'm sure it's not because they smile to much or like to have fun. What a stupid theory. Pretty dumb to assume that someone who is a nice person can never be as poised, confident or focused as someone who is not as nice. Your responses don't help your argument any.

 

[lakesgopher]

Another thing Mr. Genius. Why don't you propose a theory why the Gophers season has gone the way it has. You'll probably say: "....cause sometimes they play good and sometimes they play poorly...". Well, no *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# Sherlock. What we all are trying to understand is why do we see such a great disparity in their performance from game to game. What is happening. If you can't get to the bottom of something, you will never correct it or get better. Can't you understand that some of us are trying to find answers, while idiots like you are just trying to bash people. Please, go commit suicide.

for writing the comment i bolded---F U!!!

this kind of crap is not appropriate, ever

 

[CentralGopher]

[/B]

for writing the comment i bolded---F U!!!

this kind of crap is not appropriate, ever

Agree lakes. I think someone missed his meds this morning because he seems especially hostile.

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

[/B]

for writing the comment i bolded---F U!!!

this kind of crap is not appropriate, ever

oh yes it is appropriate. there are bullies in this world who need to know their presence in the world is not wanted or needed. society is better off if they are dead. if you can't see or understand this, then you are part of the problem.

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

Agree lakes. I think someone missed his meds this morning because he seems especially hostile.

your original answer is indicative of a bad human being. period. go look in the mirror before you attack me.

 

[mnsports1]

oh yes it is appropriate. there are bullies in this world who need to know their presence in the world is not wanted or needed. society is better off if they are dead. if you can't see or understand this, then you are part of the problem.

This thread (and poster) can be done.

 

[lakesgopher]

oh yes it is appropriate. there are bullies in this world who need to know their presence in the world is not wanted or needed. society is better off if they are dead. if you can't see or understand this, then you are part of the problem.

youre the only one coming across as a bully, the other guy didnt name call...you did.

 

[CentralGopher]

Wow, first time I've ever been called a bully in my life. Better come down off your ledge and calm down.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

If you go back to that article what was written when Tubby left UK talking about how Tubby only has Asst. Coaches on his staff that he likes and don't really challenge him...it would seem reasonable that his players also fall into this category. Want to know why we have had so many defections? Maybe Tubby doesn't deal well with complicated, high energy people that get in your face sometimes...doesn't leave room for other peoples opinions, and isn't really good at praising his players(at least publicly).

Short of a final four run...I can't see any way Tubby is not forced to seek out better, younger assts that will teach, work with the players and challenge Tubby to grow and develop...especially on offense in the half court!

 

[GophersInIowa]

oh yes it is appropriate. there are bullies in this world who need to know their presence in the world is not wanted or needed. society is better off if they are dead. if you can't see or understand this, then you are part of the problem.

I didn't necessarily disagree with some of your original points. But I'm not sure how you expect people to take you seriously when you say these kind of things. Going way too far and over the top if you ask me.

 

[The-Real-Truth]

If you go back to that article what was written when Tubby left UK talking about how Tubby only has Asst. Coaches on his staff that he likes and don't really challenge him...it would seem reasonable that his players also fall into this category. Want to know why we have had so many defections? Maybe Tubby doesn't deal well with complicated, high energy people that get in your face sometimes...doesn't leave room for other peoples opinions, and isn't really good at praising his players(at least publicly).

Short of a final four run...I can't see any way Tubby is not forced to seek out better, younger assts that will teach, work with the players and challenge Tubby to grow and develop...especially on offense in the half court!

Very true for the most part. Tubby does not change his assistants because he is loyal to them. Yes, he does the same thing with his players. If I were him, I would have benched Rodney a month ago. Tubby does not do that kind of mind games. Other coaches do. He is a very good coach but an average team manager. I remember his teams would be down at some points at UK also that he had to bring help from psych department. I know that he is a very nice guy outside of basketball but I am not sure if he is too hard on players sometimes so they lose their confidence. Changing assistants might change that since his son is not the most lovable person on that bench. Kids these days need babysitters. That's why young coaches are doing very well.

Go Gophers

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

Bronko Nagurski.


Anyone ever read about him, his demeanor away from the football field?!

Was he a bad ass?! OR a nice quite man?

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

Btw, he took the team TO CHURCH on Sunday, and on Tuesday they take down the #1 team in the land.

Yeah, I'm guessing they are all more of the nice guy types.

Now Tony Dungy? Wasn't he renowned for his positive attitude as a coach? He did not believe at all that it was best to be a cussing screaming hard ass coach.


I don't think that you have to be a bad ass to be a winner.

 

[WorkingMyTailOff]

And Joe Mauer. He'll drink a nice glass of milk with you, and then rip a double to the opposite field. Oh sorry need to get back to the Gophers.

 

[Unregistered User]

What we all are trying to understand is why do we see such a great disparity in their performance from game to game.

Why don't you post this question on a Hoosier board? They might be interested in trying to decipher how the #1 team in the country could be up on the Gophers by 30 or whatever at home, and then lose at the barn?

Huh genius?

Huh internet tough guy?

I'll let you go bully some of the kids in your neighborhood before you reply.

Until then F.O.

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

And as much as I agree with some of you that the players could be partially at fault for some of our losses and bad performances as well as Tubby, I also think that its been pretty established that Tubby's got some coaching flaws. He's late in his career, and been here almost 6 years, so I guess the question should be, can an old dog learn new tricks?!


He somehow got this team ready and mentally prepared to beat the #1 team in the nation, and I read many people say that they thought he did a good job with his substitution patterns, although I wondered as did others when he took Mbakwe out in the first half, but I guess Trevor indicated he felt he needed a breather.

So maybe its possible for Tubby to become a better coach, to learn from his mistakes?

Get some decent asst coaches on his staff, and who knows?




Oh, btw, a good friend of mine, a DIE-HARD UNC fan, and a very knowledgeable cbb fan in general, told me last night that if Minnesota fires Tubby Smith, they'd be insane.

Granted he probably hasn't watched all our games. But he's followed cbb for decades and thinks that Tubby's been a positive force for Minnesota.

Just saying.

 

[bigticket1]

oh yes it is appropriate. there are bullies in this world who need to know their presence in the world is not wanted or needed. society is better off if they are dead. if you can't see or understand this, then you are part of the problem.

I would guess you have never had a family member or friend take their own life.

 

[Deleted_User]

oh yes it is appropriate. there are bullies in this world who need to know their presence in the world is not wanted or needed. society is better off if they are dead. if you can't see or understand this, then you are part of the problem.

If I was a moderator, your ability to post would be forever removed. Just saying.

 

[tinyarch]

I was at the game last night, sitting in perhaps the best seats in the entire stadium. Center court, 7th row. My point being that I had a very good look at what transpired last night. It seemed to me that the difference in the game came down to Trevor Mbakwe, more team intensity, desire and determination, and a few good breaks.

For those of us who've been highly critical of Tubby, we must now dig deeply and think hard about how much of the team's success or failure rests on the coaching ability and approach of Tubby Smith. It begs the question of: how much of this boils down to how badly these young men want to succeed and what are they willing to do to succeed. Also, how much guts do they have. Which really boils down to the type of person you have on your team.

For example, if you observed and compared Yogi to Dre, and Victor to Austin, there was no doubt in my mind that Yogi and Victor are much more intense, more focused, more poised, more confident. At least that's what they portray in a public forum. No matter what Tubby does or says, he will not be able to change the personality and fire in another human being. It all comes down to the individual he recruits. And, in my opinion, a coach is most likely to recruit human beings that he likes. And guess what, a coach is going to select guys who are most like him. In Tubby's case, that means guys that are good people, friendly, somewhat easy going, like to laugh and have fun, and who realize that there are more important things in life than basketball. Unfortunately, those may not be the same guys capable of winning 15 Big Ten games in a long and arduous season.

The kids had a week to get ready for this game and they had the desperation of a distinct possibility that they would play in the NIT. If you corner a cat, you're going to get a much bigger fight than if you just let them lounge around the neighborhood. The Gophers were cornered and they responded with a desperate effort. Now, let's see if they can keep up that kind of energy. My thoughts are that they can't.

Last nights win pretty much seals their opportunity to play in the dance. Will they now revert to the team that averaged over 15 turnovers per game or will they maintain their intensity to do more than just get into the dance?

We have a track record of six years by which to evaluate Tubby. One dramatic win does not wipe the slate of the past six years away.

I disagree with you to some degree when you state that a coach will recruit human beings that he likes because at the D1 level you have to recruit kids that will win you games or you lose your job. Looking for a certain type of player that fits your system of play is, to me, different than recruiting players that you personally get along with or relate to their personality.

You also seem to imply that the Gophers players are good, friendly folks who are easy going, laugh and have fun, but they don't really have an intense desire to win. I would strongly disagree with that implication. I would counter that all those kids have a very strong desire to win and be very successful at basketball. The difference between them and other players on another team will be whether they were sufficiently taught how to succeed in the system the coach implements. These teaching skills go a long way toward determining an elite program and one that falls below that elite level. Tubby had his chance to coach an elite program and that program dropped below an acceptable status under his leadership. He has yet to bring this program to even a tier below the elite programs, but instead has settled in at mid-level.

Now, I know some on the GH will immediately whine about me being a Tubby hater, but all I'm doing is pointing to the 6 year track record of data that we have. Last night's win was as good as it gets at the Barn and at the U of M. It is a fantastic memory to celebrate and the team should be honored for the great win. But, that doesn't change the boat load of data that shows Minnesota as a mid-level team over the past 6 years.

 

[savagerube]

Another thing Mr. Genius. Why don't you propose a theory why the Gophers season has gone the way it has. You'll probably say: "....cause sometimes they play good and sometimes they play poorly...". Well, no *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# Sherlock. What we all are trying to understand is why do we see such a great disparity in their performance from game to game. What is happening. If you can't get to the bottom of something, you will never correct it or get better. Can't you understand that some of us are trying to find answers, while idiots like you are just trying to bash people. Please, go commit suicide.

Dude, this is a gopher fan website. Cool your jets man. This is the worst comment I've ever read on Gopherhole. My god, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously.

FYI if your "theory" is true, then why do coaches (Tubby included) succeed when they take over players they didn't recruit? For example: Bo Ryan, Shaka Smart, Bruce Weber, etc..

 

[#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat]

tiny --


If, as I've read many write in here, that this is the first year that Tubby doesn't have an excuse because of injuries, then grouping this season together with the prior 5 might not be the best way to determine if Tubby has THIS years team up to that just below elite level that you claim they are not at.


#15 RPI, #18 Ken-Pom, #19 Sagarin, #1 SOS

FOUR wins vs RPI Top 25, THREE wins vs KP Top 12, THREE wins vs Sagarin Top 10.

And SIX wins vs KP Top 42 and SIX wins vs Sagarin Top 42.


Are Arizona, Missouri or Cincinnati elite?

UMn has JUST AS MANY Ws vs the Top 25 of the RPI, as Zona, Cincy & Mizzou COMBINED!!!

And we've played MORE gms vs the Top 25 of the RPI than all 3 of those teams COMBINED!!